Help Computer Science.. Uhhh, what?

[Overdriven]

Okay, this is my 3rd "uni" based post, and most probably my last one.. I have a few questions regarding this degree and work.

In September, I'm hopefully starting a "Database Technology" course, which is obviously aimed at working with databases, for my specific modules, I'll most probably be focusing in programming (Hopefully in C# or C++) which, I assume, should keep me set for a SQL-Dev/Oracle DBA/SQL-DBA based job in the future. (As I'm assuming the stuff learnt, work experience, and knowledge of a strong OOP language helps in the long run)

Now, I've been looking through jobs and reading the news, and have seen a majority of students go for a "Computer Science" degree, which seems odd to me. I don't see why people don't go for more direct courses.

Now, my questions:

- Why do employers ask for "Computer Science" (Is it because they don't want to ask for specific degree bases?)
- What advantages would there be doing a CS degree, instead of a specific, with specific modules?
- What would you gain from doing a CS-Programming/CS-Networking degree, instead of a degree on something like, Application Development/Network Administration?

Cheers for any replies, would love to solve this oddness

 

[TdC]

based on pure assumption, a vanilla CS deg sets you up to be able to do "anything" whereas a specialisation forces you into a niche?

 

[DaGaffer]

TBH, almost every dev I know doesn't have a Computer-based degree; quite a few engineers, but I know guys with everything from politics to accountancy. Personally I wouldn't specialise too soon, not just because it may make you less flexible, but also because you don't necessarily know what you'll actually be interested in by the end of your course. Unless of course you have an all-consuming interest in the subject...

 

[Overdriven]

Personally I wouldn't specialise too soon, not just because it may make you less flexible, but also because you don't necessarily know what you'll actually be interested in by the end of your course. Unless of course you have an all-consuming interest in the subject...

Well, that's actually my issue... I've just come out of a networking course, which gave me the first 2 parts of my CCNA, and I became very bored of it. Networking has completely become "no fun/no interest" for me over the last year. Programming I've allways sort of seen/looked at/got involved in in a small part, and I actually like it (If I studied it, I'd end up learning it properly/in more detail) and for the last 2-3 years I've been part of a "what must not be named" project working with datbases, which has kick started my interest in database work, and I honestly really like it, it's something I actually see myself doing.

I don't want to do a "generic/non-specific" course, because it seems too.. Unfocused, constantly switching from programming, to networking, to datbase design would get on my nerves (talking 2nd year plus) where as, having one major focus is something I'm more interested in.

I know it's not the best idea to specialise in something, but I think it's personally worth the risk, even though it may bite me in the ass.

 

[Cadelin]

- Why do employers ask for "Computer Science" (Is it because they don't want to ask for specific degree bases?)
- What advantages would there be doing a CS degree, instead of a specific, with specific modules?
- What would you gain from doing a CS-Programming/CS-Networking degree, instead of a degree on something like, Application Development/Network Administration?

A university degree is not about learning the exact skills you will need for a job. Its about showing you are able to learn these skills. It is impossible to leave university knowing everything ever required for your entire working career. You will need to constantly learn even when you are working.

You need to look carefully at CS degrees. They will probably contain several modules you can pick. You will be able to specialize your course alot. With the exception of your first job employers probably won't care that much about your degree (as long as you have one). They will look muc more at previous work experience and see how well you can answer the questions.

Do what you think you will enjoy at university. Doing well and getting good references from your tutors is much more important than the name of the course.

 

[Nate]

Gonna have to go with Mint Choc Chip.

 

[Chilly]

I did CS at Reading uni, in my final year I only had one compulsary module and that was my final year project. The good thing about doing a generic course is that you *Can* specialise in a given field by selecting your modules correctly. I ended up doing ai and neural nets and some other boring shit but ended up a well rounded geek with decent knowledge of the whole domain. I know how CPUs work, I know how operating systems work and I know how applications work. I currently sitting in Malta doing a completly unrelated job but that's how it goes.

A database course sounds interesting, I just hope you get to play with some realistic applications (ie NOT a vet store with 3 customers) that let you explore performance tuning and query optimisation for more than one database.

Employers dont nesesarily want someone perfectly trained for the job at hand because then they lose the fresh eyes the new person has. When I started, the CEO told me and my comrades to keep an eye out for things that didnt make sense that people who had been institutionalised may not notice or take for granted as being "the way".

Anyway, good luck with your course, I'm sure you'll enjoy it if you are half the geek I am

 

[Milkshake]

Like Chilly and Cadelin have said, it's not about what you know in Uni, it's displaying the competency to learn in the areas of Computer Science. I've learned more in the last 9 months of my job than I did in my entire degree. (I did a CS Degree which led to a Software Engineering Masters - and I now develop little to no software in my heavily computer-science based job. Crazy huh?)

If I needed to do Database focused work in my job, I'd expect - as a graduate - to undergo some training in the explicit area I'll be working in. To attempt to niche yourself so early is, in my opinion, folly - unless you REALLY like Databases and will work with nothing else.

Glad to see you looking at the market, but a good grade in a general CS course allows you much more flexibility - and work experience is a *must* over the summer. Don't be lazy, get a job.

 

[Overdriven]

You need to look carefully at CS degrees. They will probably contain several modules you can pick. You will be able to specialize your course alot. With the exception of your first job employers probably won't care that much about your degree (as long as you have one). They will look muc more at previous work experience and see how well you can answer the questions.

Do what you think you will enjoy at university. Doing well and getting good references from your tutors is much more important than the name of the course.

Regarding the modules is why I'm sort of 'against' doing a CS degree (It's why I never did A-Level or GCSE IT, I did a "Network" course via college) I mean, surely you'd be able to have a focus in another part of the subject with your specific modules, so you wouldn't really be stuck in the one particular field, as you'd have - at least basic/intermediate - understanding of a few more subject areas?

Employers dont nesesarily want someone perfectly trained for the job at hand because then they lose the fresh eyes the new person has. When I started, the CEO told me and my comrades to keep an eye out for things that didnt make sense that people who had been institutionalised may not notice or take for granted as being "the way".

Yeah, it would be nice working with larger databases, I tried talking to my college ISS manager before I left, but he refused to speak to students, wanted to ask him about it all, and how he did it (Since we had like 5k students etc) - There's a lot in regards to DBA I need to learn, I mean hell, if I knew everything now I'd have a job - Cheers for the CEO bit, nice to get a proper answer regarding work places for once.

If I needed to do Database focused work in my job, I'd expect - as a graduate - to undergo some training in the explicit area I'll be working in. To attempt to niche yourself so early is, in my opinion, folly - unless you REALLY like Databases and will work with nothing else.

Glad to see you looking at the market, but a good grade in a general CS course allows you much more flexibility - and work experience is a *must* over the summer. Don't be lazy, get a job.

Going to reply to this bit in reverse... If you're talking about during Uni, then aye, getting a job while I'm there is on my to do list. It's kinda hard right now going up there to apply, since it's in the middle of the UK and I'm near London ;p But yes, work will happen. Hopefully the 1 year industrial will help too.

Now, specialising myslef (Niche and folly are so old :]) this early on I would of thought would of been a good thing, I mean, as I think I said, I'm going to have other focuses in none database areas. I mean, hell, if I wanted to I could carry on and do some networking modules (even though I currently loathe networking) or look at something else completely, so I won't be 100% in that one area, I'd of atleast covered others.

I'd rather be a specialist on something, than a specialist in nothing. Allways have. But I can see your points, it's a risk which could bite me in the ass, but at least I'm going for the risk... Hell, at the end of it.. I could be a person who hates the subject, but knows a hell of a lot about it.


Cheers for the good replies, rep will be handed as soon as I hit reply.

PS: Sorry if I insulted people by using the "generic" term.

 

[GReaper]

Computer Science gives you a decent overview of the many parts of computing.

Sometimes you don't want to specialise in a specific area. I personally enjoy trying to know as much as possible about many different areas - which is why I like sysadmin roles. You can't specialise too heavily in one single area, it's something that you need to know a bit of everything.

If you're certain that you want to go down a specific path then go for it.

 

[Chilly]

Yeah, it would be nice working with larger databases, I tried talking to my college ISS manager before I left, but he refused to speak to students, wanted to ask him about it all, and how he did it (Since we had like 5k students etc) - There's a lot in regards to DBA I need to learn, I mean hell, if I knew everything now I'd have a job - Cheers for the CEO bit, nice to get a proper answer regarding work places for once.

My employer (betfair) have some of the more insane oracle instances around. We push through more bet orders on our trading dbs that any stock exchange. It's pretty hardcore seeing the infrastructure required to maintain such a beast.

Not only do you need the servers, you need backup capability, hotstandby capability, node failover and the rest of it. Each is a speciality in itself these days given the complexity of databases these days. No longer are they just rows of records being accessed in transactions, you have millions of lines of stored procedures and embedded SQL executing all over the place that you have to watch out for.

It's an interesting and well paid career if you are any good. It's boring and underpaid if you get a dull sql admin job looking after a mail database or something.

Get something involving money and you are bound to encounter all the high end anciliary technologies that go with any high end db these days.