Clerics are overpowed

[- Pathfinder -]

Originally posted by old.chesnor
Yes, thats it Healers. Stun the enemy to death !

Healers get to totally dominate battlefields instead. Most Albions would gladly trade a few clerics for Healers in battles, cough.

 

[old.chesnor]

Originally posted by - Pathfinder -


Healers get to totally dominate battlefields instead. Most Albions would gladly trade a few clerics for Healers in battles, cough.

Now we hit the real problem. Albion has tons of Clerics, because they can do great dmg and heal/res/sort of mezz/stun/buff etc. Clerics can solo. Healers are 100% support class. It takes a specific kind of person to play a class that just cannot solo in RvR OR PvE. And I mean, just cannot solo at all. Most heavy PAC healers with struggle to kill yellow cons mobs WITH insta heals.

Midgard struggles with poor Healer populations because playing a Healer just plain old sucks. Sure some people will enjoy it, but many more don't. Sure Albion would like some Middy Healers, so would Middy

 

[- Pathfinder -]

Healers are boring as hell, I'll admit that, and frankly if they weren't Mids would be setting up shop permanently at the MGs and never let anyone past.

Healers have instant CC spells unlike our sorcs (who aren't that common either), but when they show up, it hurts. All our clerics still don't win us alot of emain skirmishes

 

[old.Vae]

Regarding the cleric spec post nerf:

I'd already got to 43 smite intending to go 48 when the nerf arrived on the US servers.

My new spec intended for post nerf (and meaning I don't have to respec) will probably be 43 Smite /24 rejuv /21 Enh

I did consider the 43/23/22 spec to get the 2nd acuity buff but decided that the 2nd spec res was more worthwhile than the 2nd acuity buff.

I suspect that these two specs will be the new default smite templates post nerf, with the 2nd res one being more popular, as there is no point getting the 44 smite for the 30 sec mes anymore since it's on a 5 min timer.

I'll give the cleric a chance with the realm abilities which should help a lot to decrease casting time for those hugely long 4 sec smites and if not then I should have the respec available to be able to respec to a rej/enh cleric (although I doubt I'll do that)!

 

[Vell]

Originally posted by old.chesnor

And I mean, just cannot solo at all. Most heavy PAC healers with struggle to kill yellow cons mobs WITH insta heals.

Yellow cons?!!! Yellow?!!! Oh my god, I can't get a yellow con down to half life even using all my insta heals, stunning at the beginning of a fight, and stunning with insta. Also using the insta mezz half way through the fight and using castable heals doesn't help!
Blues I can do if I use both insta heals, but then have a twenty minute wait before I am ready to go again.
Greens - now that's more like it for a solo healer. Trust me, you do not want to try soloing whilst being a healer.

This, by the way, is with all yellow/orange equipment, a lot of which is high crafted quality. Oh no, sorry, I believe my cloak is green.

 

[old.chesnor]

Yes, I seriously doubt many Clerics will spec out of smite. Even after the nerfs, they stand to lose far too much goodness. Those that do spec into rejuv/enhance will only do so for buffbots or out of bloodymindedness imho.

I have played a Healer to 36 beta, 46 retail and have another at 27 waiting for DF. I love playing my Healer sometimes. But I get really frustrated about our lack of offense. We have nothing. Our uber CC is several get out of jail free cards when we are alone, but I admit it does turn the battle when we are skirmishing.

I rolled a cleric as light relief from my Healer. I always favoured the underdog in this game, and despised Clerics before they were nerfed because they were blatantly overpowered. It will be heartbreaking to see my Cleric lose some of that power, especially because I am on the PvE treadmill atm, where I need anything to help me level quicker. But I seriously still think that Clerics are fantastic, probably one of the best all round classes in the game.

And I think I will spec SRE 43/24/21

 

[Tigerius]

Originally posted by old.chesnor
Clerics are fantastic, probably one of the best all round classes in the game.

Now this for once I can agree with, the Cleric is a lovely all-round class that can solo decently if so specced, works well in any group, 1 2 or 3 of em. But all that is is PvE, and really unessential from an RvR aspect. Easy to level is an advantage but it doesn't play into weather the class is unbalanced or not.

Further on, how can you determine unbalanced from an aspect of general usefulness? I can buy arguments like DD + Stun is unbalanced, it might be but it's not cleric exclusive. Maybe insta CC overall is unbalanced, again not Cleric exclusive. Hell DDs in general are unbalanced compared to melee. But general usefulness which is the only thing Cleric is guilty of, how do you judge unbalanced? They have a wealth of options in combat for sure, but range, power and time limits them just like anyone else. You can point to individual shows of power, like how a cleric with all instas is pretty unbeatable 1on1, and happily leave out the fact that it's going to be one power, health and insta drained cleric left. The big picture is so much more than just pointing to can-do's, unless you can narrow complaints down you haven't got alot to come with.

I don't find the Cleric unbalanced as it is, nor will it be a bad class after the nerf. It will however not be a class with balanced and interesting speclines that it once was, call me a idealist but I'd rather see all classes having viable speclines than those who do nerfed. They took a fun class and made it less so, and it will suck.

Oh and on the topic of Healers soloing, why should they? Ok so reliable groups aren't always avaliable in the low levels, but those are also when basic melee soloing should be the most viable or you+friend or you+killtasks are the fastest ways. Total inability to solo must suck on quests and in general if you're having a walkabout, limitation definately, but don't tell me a 30+ Healer should have to be logged more than 5 mins without group offers? They're pretty much ultimate party utility chars, and apparently rare, surely it can't be hard grouping em?

 

[Uriron]

Hmm where to start.. Clerics are healers mainly imo so should always be willing to play a role healing there said it!

i think you could lvl a cleric all the way to 50 using baseline in any 1 of the specs. The baselines just use more power than spec so power comes into play the line most important i think is the enhance line because it gives a cleric a bit of toughness and it helps the group as a whole.

That said enhance only adds real value up to spec 11 then u have a decent amount of quality buffs for group support.

as for smite or heal its personal choice init

I'd just like to say tho I never xp solo anymore, why do that when a) its a bit tricky and b) a group is so much more fun

As for nerfing NO why not balance by improving the classes?

 

[Turamber]

Originally posted by old.chesnor


Now we hit the real problem. Albion has tons of Clerics

Sorry but that is just not true on Prydwen Albion. Yes they do exist, and yes they are more numerous than the legendary cabalists ... but we certainly don't have "tons". When I was finishing my xp-ing I found it quite difficult to get hold of high level clerics, they were like gold dust.

Would be interesting if the much vaunted Chronicles will provide statistics on this subject. I would suspect that the majority of Albion is made up of Paladins and Infiltrators. But that's another subject

 

[Danya]

Originally posted by Uriron
That said enhance only adds real value up to spec 11 then u have a decent amount of quality buffs for group support.

I'm sorry, but that's just such utter bull. High level enhance is a huge asset to a cleric. By leaving enhance at 11 you do not have quality buffs, you have gimpy spec buffs and average base buffs. The difference between a cleric with low enhance spec and one with only 2x enhance is very significant, I'd like to see more clerics with 25+ enhance tbh.

 

[- Pathfinder -]

My cleric will be an enhance hoe when we get respec ^^

 

[old.windforce]

My cleric is 19 enhance, 26 rejuv (second group heal) and 12 smite at 35 seasons

I can solo low yellow without much trouble. They just need to be vunarable to smite and i need to buff myself so that it looks like i am on steriods. But i can heal a group of 8 PvE easily.

Clerics smite is not very strong. It is just that they can do a lot more then just smite which some people might consider overpowered

 

[Uriron]

Originally posted by Dannyn


I'm sorry, but that's just such utter bull. High level enhance is a huge asset to a cleric. By leaving enhance at 11 you do not have quality buffs, you have gimpy spec buffs and average base buffs.

What I was trying to point out was that by enhance spec 11 u have a decent (i dont mean quality) spread of buffs. Yes a pure enhance cleric would be nice now and again but the majority I see are second characters or buff bots used to escort peoples lowbies around.

I have also found that once u start buffing lvl 35 - 40 onwards they have so much "uber" gear on that has been passed down in guilds or bought from ebay even my "gimpy" buffs are capping out their primary stats (ie most wizards i have grouped with have a whoping int stat and my acuity buff capps them out most times).

I'm not saying this is bad but it could be a waste of my spec points if I am capping out primary stats at lvl 11-18 enhance and then proceed to put even more in when i can use those for heal or smite.

My buffs arent gonna save my group if were getting bitch slapped but my heals might

 

[- Pathfinder -]

Your base buffs won't cap alot on equal level people. Some will, ie the ones you most recently received new versions of, but that's it, unless you spec high enhance. Your spec buffs will not come near to capping an equal level character if you don't spec enhance; my uber Con/Str buff gives 26 Str/Con; the cap at 50 is 75.

 

[Cerverloc]

Originally posted by old.chesnor
Got a Cleric to 20, and can safely say they are one overpowered class.

NERF CLERICS

Oh, wait, they have been nerfed. By 20ish%.

NERF CLERICS MORE

No wait, that will mean I will suck.

OMG SMITE ROCKS!!111

Don't worry. Mythic has nerfed them to death in 1.52 just like they nerf anything to "balance" the game.

 

[old.¥ØÐÄ]

the problem i see here is not that clerics are over powered its the "mid/hib" healers dont have the offensive skills clerics have . clerics aint overpowered they just more offensive than mid/hib healers.

what should mythic do ? NERF clerics? or give hib/mid some offensive? imo nerfing sux , regardless of what realm they r from. giving mid/hib healers extra stuff would shuteverybody up and nobody would complain . a cleric sacrifices his buffs and heals for smite so he can deal decent dmge . herbal is a enchance cleric .do you think he should be nerfed ? or just nerf smiters ?

again as for clerics being overpowered if you have played one you will see that clerics also CAN struggle with yellow cons . "ok if they undead maybe clerics can solo oranges" but a yellow con with NO +dmge bonus with smite is a tough mob to kill . all it takes is for a stun or cple of smite resists "which is common" and the cleric will struggle badly to kill yellow con .

 

[Lydek]

I have also found that once u start buffing lvl 35 - 40 onwards they have so much "uber" gear on that has been passed down in guilds or bought from ebay even my "gimpy" buffs are capping out their primary stats (ie most wizards i have grouped with have a whoping int stat and my acuity buff capps them out most times).

Sorry, WRONG. From the Camelot Herald...

Q: How exactly do the attribute caps work?

A: Three factors here, separate caps that stack with each other. Here’s how to calculate your caps:

1) Item bonuses = 1.5 times your level, rounded down.
2) Combo buffs (that buff two stats) = 1.5 times your level, rounded down.
3) Single buffs = your level

Add those three things, and that’s your stat cap. At level fifty, your cap is whatever your stat is plus 200

As you can see the caps for items and the 2 different sorts of buffs are completely separate, so your gimpy buffs will not get anywhere even close to reaching a cap on anyone around your level.

[Edit]

Oh yeah, just to stick my oar in on the nerf clerics issue too, I pretty much agree with Revz. Smite did need tuning down, but either the damage reduction or the spell level reduction would probably have done. 5 minute recast on the pbae mez is very nasty and a huge nerf to PvE. It was completely uncalled for.

My spec is 35 smite, 33 enh and 24 rejuv if anyone cares
[/Edit]

 

[old.Alliandre]

Smite Clerics had this coming. They get into their groups by holding the name Cleric then refusing to heal. The common line being, "Can't heal. Need power for smite". Clerics are made for healing, not damage dealing, and I hate all Smiting Clerics. They are not fit to bear the name Cleric.

Now on the serious side. Clerics smite needed toning down but they went to far I think. And think about how well Druids can do in a 1v1. Druids must be uber if you think about how well they can do if they spec right. Healers have a huge influence in RvR when with a group of people. They all have their advantages. Just stop crying nerf and find out the true facts.

BTW I made a Cleric on Prywden and I'm going 45 rejuv, 27 enhance, 12 smite. Can anyone tell me if this is viable?

 

[- Pathfinder -]

You'll spend your time crying alot once the levelling is done This stigma that smite clerics don't heal in XP groups is rediculous; if a cleric doesn't heal when he's in a group, kick him FGS. I can't believe people moan about stuff easily rectified

 

[old.Alliandre]

I once met a bard on hib/exc who wouldn't heal. I ended up leaving the group over it being as they was the only person in the group that could heal. Anyway, that's another story for another thread Haven't met a Cleric who wouldn't heal yet, but then again my highest lvl char on Pry is 13. I'm sure I'll find one somewhere. I'm sure if I kick enough they'll heal

 

[- Pathfinder -]

There's nothing wrong with smite clerics - it all comes down to what kind of player he/she is. I've met some frightfully stupid smiters, but needless to say, I never grouped with them again. We have enough clerics in Albion for those kind of people to get the hint, eventually

 

[old.Kladen]

well they should (hopefully) nerf skalds too coz ive heard that casters dont really like em much, plus they seem to be stronger than my paladin.

plate > chain
alb.2handed <> mid.2handed (only 1 spec, but paladins get 2X points)
alb.damage chant <> mid.damage chant
alb.heal chant <> mid.heal chant

so now paladins have an advantage of having plate but look! skalds get 2 DD, a mezz , snare, speeeedd and they are all insta.
paladins only get af self buff and armour chant. skalds have about the same hp

bit unfair dont you think : /

 

[old.Alliandre]

<sarcasm>yep. off coarse. nerf skalds. that'll equal out everything. </sarcasm>

Just give the bloody Paladins something that will be useful in RvR. Now THAT is the the real answer. Stopm comparing 2 classes and saying they should be nerfed. Yes casters hate skalds. But then again they also hate stealthers and minstrels.

STOP SCREAMING NERF!!!

 

[Ottar]

> I cant believe people like you guys actually got clerics nerfed
> with your whining yet none of you know what they can and
> cant do and have no idea about the class.

Being on the recieveing end it does give us some idea what a cleric is capable of. As it is now, alb cleric is The hardest target of them all. I actually prefer to fight armsmen and even bloody hib mooses. I would die horribly but at least I would make some significant damage on them. On my way to RR4, I have managed ONE ytm cleric solo kill. How I did it is still unclear, either I was extremely lucky or the cleric in question was just horribly misspecced.

Ranged mez is one thing. Can be sometimes avoided with vigorous maneuvering or surprise attacks from behind. Doesn’t work with clerics. Melee simply cannot get close to a cleric without being instantly mezzed. The only way to get a cleric down with melee is to have 2-3 people on him, going in timed so that the mez will get only one at a time.

How much has Purge changed it on US servers.. dunno. If one managed to get rid of initial guaranteed on-contact mez, one could have high chances of disrupting the following casts. That would mean killing clerics 1on1 would become possible, if somewhat slow process. The outcome would then probably depend on if the cleric has his instas up.

The main problem with clerics, however, is not that they are practically impossible to kill solo. Most people cant kill infiltrators solo either, so what. The problem is realm balance. According to US statistics there are more than twice the number of clerics than there is Midgard healers. Clerics, nerfed or not, are still more fun to play than the bloody healers. Healers, reaching high 40ies, typically stop playing. About the same time clerics discover that hey, smite kinda rocks in RvR too and develop reflex to hit insta mez every time something gets too close to them

As a direct result, Midgard is massively outhealed, outressed, outmezzed and would be outbuffed if it wasnt for shammie buffbots.

Im still a bit stunned every time I read albs talking about ”ghetto-rez”. The very concept is unthinkable in Midgard.

> uninformed masses who got beaten down by a cleric in 1v1 (at the cost
> of 75% of the clerics power bar for 1 target)

Uninformed in what way? Silly enough to go for a cleric solo? Or is there a working tactic that would actually give the opposing melee a chance? Enlighten me and I’m forever in yer debt, padre

> The infamous healer is far, FAR better in these situations.

How true, and yet so false.. Give an equal sized alb and mid armies equal numbers of healers/clerics worth their salt and mids would have advantage. Halve the number of healers (realistic assumtion) and the situation would change drastically.

> True soloing is based on your ability to pick your fights; clerics,
> without stealth and speed, cannot do that.

Agreed. As a skald, I do have the option to pick my fights. I never pick a fight with more than greencon cleric tho.

> Mids would be setting up shop permanently at the MGs and never let anyone past.

Oh yes! Some of my most enjoyable encounters have been when guarding AMGO when we had a healer there.

Ottar

 

[danskmacabre]

The best way of settling this problem is to reduce all DAOC character classes only being able to hit each other with soft pillows....
All pillows will be the same size and do the same damage..(which will be zero, to remove the posibility of Uuber classes)...

Furthermore, all other aspects of every class will be exactly the same except the name...

This is the only way of stopping people whining about how their character class sucks, or another one is uber..