Help Changes to UK tax system

[Scouse]

No, that's due to the one thing you keep overlooking, and the one reason why your ideas are bunkum - human nature.

I think you'll find human nature is slightly more complex than you think. And it's why your 18th century ideas are total bunkum.

Interested in maybe looking at something that challenges your opinions on monetary incentivisation? Gwan Bodhi. It's genuinely interesting.

How many years did you avoid (evade!) paying your fair of tax btw?

Once again, it's a topic (like benefits) that's completely unrelated to the subject at hand. But I'm glad you remembered it. (I was particularly vociferous and in-your-face when I harped on about it for that very reason.)

You're making my case for structural tax reforms for me.

If you work in a "job" like normal people you're a fucking mug. Nobody voluntarily pays tax unless they're some mental case. I work (when I do) in a way that minimises my tax expenditure in a totally legal way - the legal way that rich people do it.

But you mugs, in your "normal" jobs, whine when people pay less tax than you. Jealous?

Yep, of course you are (don't lie). And quite rightly so.

So, when someone like me (or Warren Buffet) comes along and says "we're both laughing at you yet we sympathise because it's fucking disgraceful - it's not fair and you're right to point out that it's not fair. Tell you what - lets make structural reforms to our wealth and tax systems to allow massive, but not obscene, wealth - and a fairer society for all".

What happens when that happens? You fucking mugs, that are so afraid of change, that only have unrealistic dreams of massive wealth to cling to, would rather cling to that unfulfillable dream than actually get behind the idea and push for that change.

"Don't take our dream away from us - it's all we have".

Well, it's all you'll ever have with that attitude.


Edit: And I didn't like the assertion that in some way I was acting illegaly Raven. I paid my legally required "fair" tax - using the system you're defending...

 

[Jupitus]

How many cases have we seen recently where people were 'legally' playing by the rules, but have fessed up to being stupid for doing so? Isn't Jimmy Carr a case in point?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-18531008

'Legally', fine, ok.

 

[old.Tohtori]

But you mugs, in your "normal" jobs, whine when people pay less tax than you. Jealous?

Yep, of course you are (don't lie). And quite rightly so.

Ofcourse i'm not, couldn't give two f*cks about your cashflow even if i had f*cks to give

Not to mention; how exactly does a wealthcap benefit me? Why should i advocate it? Or are you saying that if they added a wealthcap that suddenly poorer folk would be taxed less?

 

[Scouse]

Actually my human instinct of fairness makes me think like that, if I was me and you were the taxman and I climbed a tree to get some fruit then if you asked me to chuck you one as well I'd think "meh, might as well as I'm up here" if I got down from the tree with the fruit and you nicked it all off me except one piece I'd think "you cunt, you can go fuck yourself".

Thatcher thought like that. It's called the philanthropic principle.

She also said at one point that it was her greatest regret that humans don't actually act like that in sufficient numbers. She'd helped pave the way for the super rich, but they just don't give it away in numbers that make it worthwhile having them. It needs to be taken off them.

 

[Scouse]

How many cases have we seen recently where people were 'legally' playing by the rules, but have fessed up to being stupid for doing so? Isn't Jimmy Carr a case in point?

Jimmy Carr in "fessed up to minimising tax income" but is in the public eye and didn't want to be showered with eggs by jealous plebs, so apologised.

But didn't get prosecuted, because it's legal.

I always said that if Carr worked in an industry where the goodwill of the idiot public wasn't crucial to his future income he'd have said "fuck off - complain to the government you jealous plebs, or grow a pair of balls, some talent and do what I do".

And I've had supported him. At the same time as supporting structural tax reform.

Prime Minister David Cameron on Wednesday called Mr Carr's use of the scheme "morally wrong"

"Lol" and indeed "roffle"

Do something about it then Cameron, you cunt. No? Oh, all your mates and party donors run those schemes? OK then. Just play up to the idiot plebs then. It'll blow over...

...oh, it has.

 

[Embattle]

How many years did you avoid (evade!) paying your fair of tax btw?

This is the very reason I'll never take him seriously on nearly any subject regarding politics and especially not when it comes to his soap box session's on tax and finance, but then we are all chumps. I've never ignored a person via the forum software since even Scouse has stuff worth reading but personally I would let the champagne socialist have his soap box time on these sort of subjects and then remember his tax affairs and just move on.

I currently pay no tax at all, when I did I didn't actually mind. All I personally want is a properly fair system in which you can't avoid paying for bs reasons and one in which the revenue is not generally wasted and used on short term policies/ideas.

Signed
One of the many chumps

 

[old.Tohtori]

Not to mention, without us "mugs" Scouse wouldn't have games to play, food in his pantry, or gas in his car.

 

[Scouse]

I currently pay no tax at all, when I did I didn't actually mind. All I personally want is a properly fair system in which you can't avoid paying for bs reasons

When I paid tax I didn't mind. And I never used any method that was even remotely unconventional - I just used the methods that every single company owner in the country did to minimise a tax bill legally - and ended up paying between 10 and 20% of gross company income in tax, the rest to me.

And yes, I think that's wrong. But show me someone who simply voluntarily gives that money to the government "just because"...

I'm saying - change the system. That does include me in that system @Embattle. I'm not "dodging" anything - I'm paying full tax every single time. But what is legally required is incorrect and immoral.


You lot can get all pissy about being called mugs - which you are - and why are you? Because I'm the one shouting for structural tax reforms the hardest - when I clearly have most to lose - and when I point out the inconvenient truths of the tax system you're all defending you complain about ME.

Go figure.

 

[MYstIC G]

Thatcher thought like that. It's called the philanthropic principle.

She also said at one point that it was her greatest regret that humans don't actually act like that in sufficient numbers. She'd helped pave the way for the super rich, but they just don't give it away in numbers that make it worthwhile having them. It needs to be taken off them.

Thatcher not having anything to do with what I said aside, what's your point? Are you saying that you'd be happy say digging two holes for someone else before you could dig one for you. I doubt it given your comments about legal tax avoidance. If anything it seems your Thatcher comments are more relevant to you as you're actually going to lengths to keep everything you've got and to hell with everyone else.

Hypocrisy much?

 

[old.Tohtori]

You lot can get all pissy about being called mugs - which you are - and why are you?

Because you're calling anyone doing a job a mug. You know, everyone who keeps the world turning for you to even -plan- your utopia.

 

[Raven]

I'm sorry but you can't fiddle the system then complain about people fiddling the system...it just makes you look like a bit of a twat really.

There are more than enough tax bands for people earning stupid money to pay stupid amounts of tax and pay for your rainbow shitting unicorns but people look for ways to avoid that tax, in the same way you do.

You are the problem. You and your tax avoiding kind.

As for the whole jealousy thing, that is quite frankly hilarious. I don't much care what tax you avoid. I pay my tax and I am quite happy to pay that tax. If you don't want to contribute to society that is up to your conscience. It just makes you a massive hypocrite if you spent years going out of your way to avoid contributing and then bang on endlessly about how unfair it all is.

Live as you preach or seriously STFU and GTFO

 

[ileks]

Blimey this thread blew up didn't it.

Cheers for the advice guys - the suggestions on page one were actually really helpful. The talk about property taxes on page one lead me to have a good look at stamp duty and that actually came up in the interview. Awesome.

 

[ileks]

I'm sorry but you can't fiddle the system then complain about people fiddling the system...it just makes you look like a bit of a twat really.

I've got more time for someone that's (presumably on a relatively small scale - no offence meant there Scouse) "fiddled the system" and suggests changes than the usual "lock up the bankers!" type of shit you usually get from people who know nothing about the tax system.

That said, Scouse, you're obviously talking bollocks At least in regard to an asset seizure anyway.

 

[Raven]

Blimey this thread blew up didn't it.

Cheers for the advice guys - the suggestions on page one were actually really helpful. The talk about property taxes on page one lead me to have a good look at stamp duty and that actually came up in the interview. Awesome.

Agree and like

 

[Raven]

I've got more time for someone that's (presumably on a relatively small scale - no offence meant there Scouse) "fiddled the system" and suggests changes than the usual "lock up the bankers!" type of shit you usually get from people who know nothing about the tax system.

That said, Scouse, you're obviously talking bollocks At least in regard to an asset seizure anyway.

I don't. It's the same as pretending to have whiplash after a bump in the car then complaining about the cost of insurance premiums really.

 

[Tom]

I didn't pay any tax this January, in fact, I got a sizeable rebate. But then again, I invested a load of my profits into new equipment. And I've just bought a load more equipment too, so I won't pay much tax next January either.

 

[Scouse]

I didn't pay any tax this January, in fact, I got a sizeable rebate. But then again, I invested a load of my profits into new equipment. And I've just bought a load more equipment too, so I won't pay much tax next January either.

Running a business as the government says a business should be run.

Nice to see nobody is calling you a tax fiddler for obeying the legal rules Tom. Must be because you're not rubbing their faces in it.

Apparently, to hold a view that a wealth cap would be a good thing for humankind you must first make yourself a pauper or voluntarily give up any amount of wealth (no matter how tiny it is) you already have. (Which would make me homeless tbh).

Seems a very high bar simply to hold a non-mainstream view on politics, economics and human structures eh?

 

[Tom]

Well the only downside is that the equipment I bought came from the Isle of Man and the USA, so I wasn't really supporting UK businesses. And the new equipment I bought last week (just managed to sneak it into this tax year) is also from the USA.

I'd buy from the UK but we're just not good enough. I've had to write off about £6,000 of UK equipment that (due to 4G frequencies and OFCOM) is now illegal to use in this country, and it can't be retuned because of the technical short-sightedness of the company that made it. Well, they say it can't be retuned, personally I don't believe them. This same company also take months to service equipment, unlike the US company which takes days.

 

[Scouse]

I'd buy from the UK but we're just not good enough.

I was gonna ask that, but you answered it for me. The rest of that sucks - how long ago did you buy the equipment?

 

[Tom]

Between 2000 and 2004. It still works, perfectly, it's just that 4G now occupies those frequencies. I simply do not believe the manufacturer's claims, that the equipment cannot be retuned because of an EU directive on lead-free solder. They'd just rather wash their hands of it and sell me new equipment, so fuck 'em, I bought new equipment from a company that sells a better product.

 

[Scouse]

the equipment cannot be retuned because of an EU directive on lead-free solder

Might be able to find a company outside of the EU that could do that for you - then you'd have cheap spares?

 

[Scouse]

Wow.

Men held (and released!) over a three trillion euro bond fraud.

Three trillion!

How do you think you're going to get away with that unless you're one of the richest countries in the world? Funny tho. If personal wealth was capped, only countries themselves would be even in a position to try this sort of shit on...

 

[ileks]

 

[Scouse]

Watched that last night for the first time in ages. First one is so very good

 

[Bodhi]

By the way Scouse I didn't reply to your post as I needed to say nothing to make you look like a cock, you did that perfectly by yourself. I would expect such a right on socialist such as yourself to pay extra tax to help the poor you always get on your high horse about, but yet, you're just as bad as the fat cats you dislike so much.

In fact I'd say you're worse, as I've never heard one of these fat cats moan about how unfair the system is, whilst at the same time bleeding that same system dry for your own personal gain.

I don't know why but the words "morally" and "vacuous " are coming to mind.

 

[Scouse]

I've always paid all the tax that was due. FULLY. The fact that I'm also of the opinion that it's immoral (and the fact that I'm not rich) should lend my argument for structural tax reforms (that would be to my severe penalty, not gain) more weight, not less.

But you're blinkered by some misplaced righteous anger and think I should act like no other human to hold my views.

I dunno about you @Bodhi, but the words "fucking" and "idiot" come to mind.

 

[Fweddy]

I actually agree with Scouse completely about tax. Why would anyone pay more than they have to?

 

[Bodhi]

Ah the typical view of socialism, do as I say not as I do, then start yelling abuse at anyone who disagrees.

Classy, very classy.

 

[Raven]

I actually agree with Scouse completely about tax. Why would anyone pay more than they have to?

Absolutely, that isn't the point though. You can't criticise people using perfectly legal ways to not pay tax and then do it yourself...well you can but it makes you a massive hypocrite.


Edit: And by You, I don't mean you

 

[DaGaffer]

1. Artificial caps of anything never work, on the income side or the tax side. Adam Smith got that absolutely right. Its been proved repeatedly. Case in point right now, the impending world cocoa shortage. Artificial price fixing by governments designed to protect farmers from world price fluctuations results in price paid to farmers not keeping up with demand so they go and farm something else, creating a shortage. Wealth of Nations 101.

2. Why 100M? Why not 10M? Why not 1BN? Its completely arbitrary and would create its own economic shocks.

3. World government. Not going to happen, and frankly its a terrifying prospect. Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

4. The idea that governments are the best people to decide how most of the money in the world is spent is laughable.