Joxer
Fledgling Freddie
- Joined
- Jan 23, 2004
- Messages
- 121
Dunno if someone else already posted this or if we just missed cause we are all ToA-addicted atm. Anyway.....here it is (shamelessly copied from VN Boards)
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Champion TL Report (March 2004)
I. Overview
Although one of the best in the game at artificial duels, the Champion suffers from some serious problems in “real” RvR – which is the point of the game. Most problems result from the game advancing (realm abilities, buffbots, fixes to other classes, ToA bonuses, etc.) while the Champion has remained relatively stagnant. As a result, the Champion has serious issues getting groups in PvE and RvR.
This report represents information gathered from many long-time Champion players who participated in multiple public discussions regarding problems facing the class. The Top 4 Concerns are almost universal among the Champions who contributed.
II. Top 4 Concerns
A. Debuffs
Debuffs define the Champion. The fact that they have grown increasingly weak over time has become the #1 concern of the class.
1. The debuffs do not take items into account. Since spellcrafting went live, it’s not at all unusual to see maxxed item stats (made even worse by ToA +cap items). This puts the Champion at an increased disadvantage.
2. +Buff% items make buffbot buffs higher without penalty (what else would the buffbots wear?). By contrast, +Debuff% items force Champs to sacrifice other stats/resists.
3. Critical debuffs do not take off as much the spells themselves. A regular 73 delve debuff might remove 85 Con from a buffed opponent, but a 67 point critical removes only an additional 42 Con – much less than one would expect.
4. The debuff range is substantially less than the DD range.
5. The power/endurance usage is an issue with players.
B. Self-Buff
The once-useful STR/CON buff needs to be seriously reworked to account for the current reality of RvR.
1. The self-buff (62) is less than the Druid STR/CON (67). Given the prevalence of buffbots today, this too often makes the self-buff useless (except for rebuffing when the Champion dies in the field).
2. Buffbots load up with ToA +buff% equipment making the buffbot buff even higher (93).
3. If a buffbot doesn’t have enough Conc, the Champion is typically asked to use his inferior self-buff. Thus, the buff that was intended to help Champions can be outright detrimental to them. They must use a lesser STR/CON buff that they must remember to recast every 20m in the field.
4. The problem is a combination of the buff being lesser value that then top buffbot buff AND having to be recast every 20m. It is flat-out inferior in high-end RvR.
C. Spells
1. DD Problems
The DD has become relatively weaker over time.
Of the hybrids with Instant DDs, Champions are the only one that has neither a Lifedrain (Reaver) nor a shorter timer/lower cost (Bard) nor a second instant DD/PBAE on a separate timer (Thane, Minstrel, Skald).
The tradeoff was 1500 range, better power ratio and more damage. But the Thane, Minstrel and Skald got damage boosts in 1.65, most had recasts lowered and all had power costs lowered.
Now, the Champion DD that used to be second best to the Reaver is now the worst of the bunch.
2. Lack of AE
RvR today increasingly favors casters/hybrids with AE. Of all the Offensive Hybrids (Thanes, Valewalkers, Champions, Reavers) only the Champion lacks an Area Effect style/spell. Champs have an AE RA, but RAs force the player to sacrifice in other areas (e.g., Purge). Players believe an Instant AE Debuff spell would address the class’s needs.
D. Groupability
1. Hibernia’s other tank/hybrid classes have more to offer than Champions in typical PvE/RvR. Heroes – who Champs are most often compared to -- have ~20% more hitpoints and ~20% better weaponskill, combined with superior Parry/Shield skills, a large shield and Moose form. In RvR, they have significantly better protection against all crowd control. BMs/VWs do more damage. Wardens offer great support.
2. Champions, while technically an “offensive hybrid,” don’t put out noticeably more damage than Heroes, even including their DD. They are far behind Hibernia’s other tanks/hybrids.
3. Unlike support hybrids, Champions don’t have much to offer a group -- standard damage (inc. DD), substandard hp/defense, a snare (of limited use in PvE), debuffs (useless in epic PvE). In RvR, the single-target nature of the debuffs and the long recast timer (and lack of AE effect) limits their usefulness – to the point that groups prefer most other tanks/hybrids over a Champion.
III. Specline Issues
A. 40 Valor is markedly inferior to 50 Valor, especially because of increased resists, and therefore limits the Champion’s legitimate spec options.
B. Sword/shield Champs are inferior in nearly every way to sword/shield Heroes in PvE/RvR (especially now that Heroes have a high-Dex race option)
IV. New issues
None
V. Other issues
A. There is little reason to take a Champion over any other tank/hybrid on epic PvE encounters. Debuffs/DDs never land. And the Champion is inferior to similarly specced counterparts.
VI. Item Problems
A. Champions would like to see more Hybrid Items from Epic Encounters not just RoG
B. +Valor items do nothing for the Champion (no more damage, no better resists).
VII. Documentation Issues (misspellings, bad messages, etc. in game)
None
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Champion TL Report (March 2004)
I. Overview
Although one of the best in the game at artificial duels, the Champion suffers from some serious problems in “real” RvR – which is the point of the game. Most problems result from the game advancing (realm abilities, buffbots, fixes to other classes, ToA bonuses, etc.) while the Champion has remained relatively stagnant. As a result, the Champion has serious issues getting groups in PvE and RvR.
This report represents information gathered from many long-time Champion players who participated in multiple public discussions regarding problems facing the class. The Top 4 Concerns are almost universal among the Champions who contributed.
II. Top 4 Concerns
A. Debuffs
Debuffs define the Champion. The fact that they have grown increasingly weak over time has become the #1 concern of the class.
1. The debuffs do not take items into account. Since spellcrafting went live, it’s not at all unusual to see maxxed item stats (made even worse by ToA +cap items). This puts the Champion at an increased disadvantage.
2. +Buff% items make buffbot buffs higher without penalty (what else would the buffbots wear?). By contrast, +Debuff% items force Champs to sacrifice other stats/resists.
3. Critical debuffs do not take off as much the spells themselves. A regular 73 delve debuff might remove 85 Con from a buffed opponent, but a 67 point critical removes only an additional 42 Con – much less than one would expect.
4. The debuff range is substantially less than the DD range.
5. The power/endurance usage is an issue with players.
B. Self-Buff
The once-useful STR/CON buff needs to be seriously reworked to account for the current reality of RvR.
1. The self-buff (62) is less than the Druid STR/CON (67). Given the prevalence of buffbots today, this too often makes the self-buff useless (except for rebuffing when the Champion dies in the field).
2. Buffbots load up with ToA +buff% equipment making the buffbot buff even higher (93).
3. If a buffbot doesn’t have enough Conc, the Champion is typically asked to use his inferior self-buff. Thus, the buff that was intended to help Champions can be outright detrimental to them. They must use a lesser STR/CON buff that they must remember to recast every 20m in the field.
4. The problem is a combination of the buff being lesser value that then top buffbot buff AND having to be recast every 20m. It is flat-out inferior in high-end RvR.
C. Spells
1. DD Problems
The DD has become relatively weaker over time.
Of the hybrids with Instant DDs, Champions are the only one that has neither a Lifedrain (Reaver) nor a shorter timer/lower cost (Bard) nor a second instant DD/PBAE on a separate timer (Thane, Minstrel, Skald).
The tradeoff was 1500 range, better power ratio and more damage. But the Thane, Minstrel and Skald got damage boosts in 1.65, most had recasts lowered and all had power costs lowered.
Now, the Champion DD that used to be second best to the Reaver is now the worst of the bunch.
2. Lack of AE
RvR today increasingly favors casters/hybrids with AE. Of all the Offensive Hybrids (Thanes, Valewalkers, Champions, Reavers) only the Champion lacks an Area Effect style/spell. Champs have an AE RA, but RAs force the player to sacrifice in other areas (e.g., Purge). Players believe an Instant AE Debuff spell would address the class’s needs.
D. Groupability
1. Hibernia’s other tank/hybrid classes have more to offer than Champions in typical PvE/RvR. Heroes – who Champs are most often compared to -- have ~20% more hitpoints and ~20% better weaponskill, combined with superior Parry/Shield skills, a large shield and Moose form. In RvR, they have significantly better protection against all crowd control. BMs/VWs do more damage. Wardens offer great support.
2. Champions, while technically an “offensive hybrid,” don’t put out noticeably more damage than Heroes, even including their DD. They are far behind Hibernia’s other tanks/hybrids.
3. Unlike support hybrids, Champions don’t have much to offer a group -- standard damage (inc. DD), substandard hp/defense, a snare (of limited use in PvE), debuffs (useless in epic PvE). In RvR, the single-target nature of the debuffs and the long recast timer (and lack of AE effect) limits their usefulness – to the point that groups prefer most other tanks/hybrids over a Champion.
III. Specline Issues
A. 40 Valor is markedly inferior to 50 Valor, especially because of increased resists, and therefore limits the Champion’s legitimate spec options.
B. Sword/shield Champs are inferior in nearly every way to sword/shield Heroes in PvE/RvR (especially now that Heroes have a high-Dex race option)
IV. New issues
None
V. Other issues
A. There is little reason to take a Champion over any other tank/hybrid on epic PvE encounters. Debuffs/DDs never land. And the Champion is inferior to similarly specced counterparts.
VI. Item Problems
A. Champions would like to see more Hybrid Items from Epic Encounters not just RoG
B. +Valor items do nothing for the Champion (no more damage, no better resists).
VII. Documentation Issues (misspellings, bad messages, etc. in game)
None
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