Motoring Car brakes help - BMW = cnuts

old.user4556

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Dear Freddies,

I bought a 2007 BMW Z4 3.0si in December 2008, it had done around 5000 miles when I bought it from a main BMW dealer and was very happy with it (and their customer service). It had it's first service in November 2009 nearly one year since I bought it when it had around 18000 miles on the clock. At that service, the brake fluid was changed and items such as the brakes were inspected for their quality and wear. Everything excellent with no problems as expected - the car does mostly motorway miles.

I had only covered around 300 miles (about ten days of driving) when the bad weather started to blow in and I drove my car less. The longest it went without being driven at all was probably about two weeks max before I attempted to dig it out and move it. Once I started to drive it again, there was a noticeable "pulsation" through the brake pedal that was really quite bad at high speed along with vibration through the steering wheel. At first it felt like warped discs, but clearly that wasn't possible given the fact I never drove it.

I phoned my local BMW dealer in Edinburgh who provisionally booked it in but advised it would probably be fine after a hundred miles or so as the surface corrosion wore off. The problem was still there, so I dropped it off today. After two road tests and an attempt to clean the discs, BMW phone to say:

"your front discs are knackered, it'll cost £300 to fix".

I said "you are aware it's under warranty?"

They said "yes sir, but brakes aren't covered, particularly since they're wear and tear items - your brakes are corroded by environmental factors since you've not driven the car for an extended period of time".

I said "lolwat ? It sat there for two weeks maximum, what happens if I go on a two week holiday? Do I need to replace the disks again at £300? Surely the discs aren't fit for purpose if they can't handle a couple of weeks of no driving?".

He said "it's just one of those things".

I said "Not acceptable, I'll need to speak to BMW UK - my car had done less than 20k miles, it's only two years old, it's only just had a service at which you said the brakes were immaculate, now you're telling me they're done?".

So I phoned BMW UK who said there is nothing they can do unless the dealer escalates it to them via their service manager, so I phone the dealer back and ask to speak to the service manager. They're sending out their "technical area manager" to look at it who will decide if it can go to BMW UK for a "goodwill gesture" as the brakes (particularly for corrosion) are not covered by the warranty as they are not a manufacturing defect. They cleaned the discs up for me and the problem is almost completely gone.

I had a 1 series prior to this that did nearly 50k miles on the original brakes and it still had plenty of life left in them - that same car sat doing nothing for over two weeks when I was away on holiday, so this "you don't drive it enough" nonsense is a load of fucking pish.

Any advice? Any grounds for a strongly worded letter of complaint?
 

Sharkith

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Well the customer service isn't too hot.

Mind you aren't you supposed to have a service every 10k miles?

Maybe thats because I don't drive a good car though :(
 

old.user4556

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Not on most modern German cars, it's usually 15000 to 20000 miles (or two years) for some and "condition based servicing" on some of the newer ones (which means it monitors how you drive it and it tells you how often and when to get it serviced).

Anyway, I have had it serviced in good faith and in line with manufacturers guidelines.
 

Bodhi

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They cleaned the discs up for me and the problem is almost completely gone.

So they've pretty much fixed it for free yet you want more? Tbh I'm with BMW on this one. OK having the car off road for 2 weeks shouldn't damage the brakes, however I'm willing to bet money on the fact that the snow and ice will have fucked them. It really is just one of those things imo.

If it's pretty much fixed I'd drop the issue, and put it down to the UK's complete inability to cope with snow and ice. Face it, if you'd lived in a colder country you would have winter tyres on, hence would be able to drive it, and the issue wouldn't have arisen. BMW are just giving you the same response you would get from any other manufacturer.

Apologies if that sounds a bit twattish, tis just how I see it sadly.
 

old.user4556

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We get snow and ice and the cars brakes are ruined? When it's not moving? Ummm, no. Again, my 1'er conquered snow and ice with no issues at all.

Thing is Bodhi, they give you the patronising sales pitch of "lol omg, we test our cars to -40c" and "zomg, we test our cars in sahara for weeks at a time", but it can't handle winter in the UK.

They have made quite an improvement by cleaning them - yes, but I still reckon that a set of discs should last longer than 19k miles. This is my fourth beemer, and not one of them needed the brakes touching under 50k miles.

The other bit that is interesting is that if it was down to corrosion due to "lack of driving", why aren't all the discs corroded? Why is it just the front two that need replaced? (I should stipulate, it's only one of the two that have a patch of bad corrosion).
 

Tom

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The dealer is talking bollocks. All brake discs (well except carbon) are prone to rust. There's nothing particularly dangerous about it, splash water on your discs one day, they'll be orange the next. If the car has been sat around, all you need to do is take it on a fast road and drive for a mile with the brakes on to scrub the rust off.

Most 'corrosion' on brake discs is around the edges, which don't actually affect anything, and ice and snow won't do anything to them unless one is cracked. By the way, brake discs don't warp, its a myth. The surface simply becomes uneven, and that can be fixed by skimming them on a lathe.

As for brake wear, mileage is irrelevant. Its how you drive that matters. I suggest you remove the wheel, and feel the lip around the edge. If its more than a couple of mm deep, they probably want replacing. Oh and £300 for discs, lol. Discs even from BMW won't be more than £150, an hour's work if you want to fit them yourself.
 

TdC

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dude, best I can say is that the dealer is trying to fleece you.
 

old.user4556

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The dealer is talking bollocks. All brake discs (well except carbon) are prone to rust. There's nothing particularly dangerous about it, splash water on your discs one day, they'll be orange the next. If the car has been sat around, all you need to do is take it on a fast road and drive for a mile with the brakes on to scrub the rust off.

Most 'corrosion' on brake discs is around the edges, which don't actually affect anything, and ice and snow won't do anything to them unless one is cracked. By the way, brake discs don't warp, its a myth. The surface simply becomes uneven, and that can be fixed by skimming them on a lathe.

As for brake wear, mileage is irrelevant. Its how you drive that matters. I suggest you remove the wheel, and feel the lip around the edge. If its more than a couple of mm deep, they probably want replacing. Oh and £300 for discs, lol. Discs even from BMW won't be more than £150, an hour's work if you want to fit them yourself.

Aye, most of their £300 would be silly labour, I phoned a reputable local garage who would be able to do it for £230 all in - can't say i'm confident to do it myself, especially on a car so new (I'd have a stab at the missus' fiesta though).

Regarding the "fast road part", I've tried to give the brakes some stick but it's not getting any better. It's better than it was, but the apparent corrosion doesn't seem to be shifting from the surface of the discs. I took it out for a drive tonight to Edinburgh airport and back, took it to 100mph on a quiet stretch of motorway and gave the brakes a reasonably hard stab - pretty obvious judder through the pedal, no improvement. It's mostly noticeable between 50-80mph, around town it's mostly gone.
 

Chilly

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salty water = corrosion. thats why it fared particularly badly after the snow as there was so much salt on the road that got sprayed up and around the brakes. I wonder why its only the front though.
 

Tom

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No, don't do that. Drive it for a mile or two with the brakes applied.

If that doesn't solve the problem, it could be that one or both surfaces of each disc is starting to flake away. If that's the case, they're certainly done for.
 

TdC

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If that doesn't solve the problem, it could be that one or both surfaces of each disc is starting to flake away. If that's the case, they're certainly done for.

yesh, but tbh if that really is so on a car that young which has been taken care of, it would take away all my faith in Germany, cars, and German cars. *I* drive a VW ffs :(
 

old.user4556

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No, don't do that. Drive it for a mile or two with the brakes applied.

If that doesn't solve the problem, it could be that one or both surfaces of each disc is starting to flake away. If that's the case, they're certainly done for.

Ah ok, you mean right foot on accelerator whilst left foot braking?
 

Tom

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yesh, but tbh if that really is so on a car that young which has been taken care of, it would take away all my faith in Germany, cars, and German cars. *I* drive a VW ffs :(

Country of manufacture has little to do with it. They're basically just sold lumps of metal. BMW won't make their own.

Ah ok, you mean right foot on accelerator whilst left foot braking?

Yes.
 

TdC

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Country of manufacture has little to do with it. They're basically just sold lumps of metal. BMW won't make their own.

I meant quality control. I don't believe that a company like BMW will put disks in one of their performance cars that will rot away like paper at the first sign of grit on the roads :(
 

old.user4556

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I meant quality control. I don't believe that a company like BMW will put disks in one of their performance cars that will rot away like paper at the first sign of grit on the roads :(

I don't get it either, this is my fourth BMW and the previous three never had an issue like this. The 1 series I had before looked immaculate on the breaks after nearly 50 thousands miles apart from a slight lip starting to appear.
 

Tom

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How hard / how much pressure? Sure I won't knacker them / warp them with excessive heat?

You can't warp brake discs. Only a little bit of pressure, just imagine scrubbing rust off with a wire brush, it only takes a little bit and its all gone. If you haven't ever felt overheated brakes before now, you're obviously not driving the car hard enough. :)

I don't get it either, this is my fourth BMW and the previous three never had an issue like this. The 1 series I had before looked immaculate on the breaks after nearly 50 thousands miles apart from a slight lip starting to appear.

Who knows? Could have been a bad batch of discs. It might even be something else entirely, suspension-related perhaps, and the BMW lot have simply chosen the most obvious solution.
 

old.user4556

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You can't warp brake discs. Only a little bit of pressure, just imagine scrubbing rust off with a wire brush, it only takes a little bit and its all gone. If you haven't ever felt overheated brakes before now, you're obviously not driving the car hard enough. :)

No luck on the brake cleaning.

Their tech dude said "no" to raising it with BMW UK, but the dealer did new front discs fitted for £245 all in as a goodwill gesture (down from £300). I'll still be writing a letter to BMW themselves, but I'm much less annoyed in that they "brought the price down in goodwill". I put that in quotes because they're still making a chunk of cash, however it's only £15 dearer than my local garage were going to charge and they're pretty good on prices. I just decided to let the dealer do it.
 

Tom

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Chances are then that the discs were disintegrating.

Its luck of the draw really. I had two front discs from the Merc parts counter, one of them went wobbly within a week. Luckily for me, the dealer offered to change them itself, saving me the bother of removing them, getting them back, etc.
 

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