Capped Skill

Miff

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jun 21, 2004
Messages
109
I have been working on my template and been doing some tests with and without capped +11 skill . I am atm specced 49supp / 22 dark as a sm. I did some testing with the suppression as follows in a duel:

With 49+0 i hit for 625 , 615, 624 etc
With 49+7 i hit for 695 , 704, 702 etc
With 49+17 i hit for 810 , 815 , 808 etc

What i noticed is many people don´t use + in skill in their template if it reaches over 50. I asked people and they said it wouldn´t make difference except in PVE. Why do I see these results then ? Seems like every +1 in skill is about 1,5-2% damage even if it goes beyond 50 in a skill.

Time to remake my template.... with capped suppression and darkness :)
 

Gahn

Resident Freddy
Joined
Jan 16, 2004
Messages
5,056
Uhm

Miff said:
I have been working on my template and been doing some tests with and without capped +11 skill . I am atm specced 49supp / 22 dark as a sm. I did some testing with the suppression as follows in a duel:

With 49+0 i hit for 625 , 615, 624 etc
With 49+7 i hit for 695 , 704, 702 etc
With 49+17 i hit for 810 , 815 , 808 etc

What i noticed is many people don´t use + in skill in their template if it reaches over 50. I asked people and they said it wouldn´t make difference except in PVE. Why do I see these results then ? Seems like every +1 in skill is about 1,5-2% damage even if it goes beyond 50 in a skill.

Time to remake my template.... with capped suppression and darkness :)
How comes???
U stripped your RR to try 49 + 0? oO
 

Miff

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jun 21, 2004
Messages
109
Gahn said:
How comes???
U stripped your RR to try 49 + 0? oO

take off items with + suppression increase ... And 49+0 was never tested just 49+7 and 49+12 and 49+17 and the number arent exact that I wrote tried to remember from head , but the damage increase was about 50-65 for each +5 there that I could take of with my Current template without removing piety which would affect result.

But it´s still the fact that it DOES increase damage above 50 in a skill So WHY do people gimp their main skill in their templates?
 

Foadon

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 17, 2004
Messages
533
probably most dont have enough imbue and rather take better stats, the +all magic works but you dont exactly have +11 magic if u use normal good items
 

Inca

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
May 20, 2004
Messages
410
Miff said:
I have been working on my template and been doing some tests with and without capped +11 skill . I am atm specced 49supp / 22 dark as a sm. I did some testing with the suppression as follows in a duel:

With 49+0 i hit for 625 , 615, 624 etc
With 49+7 i hit for 695 , 704, 702 etc
With 49+17 i hit for 810 , 815 , 808 etc

What i noticed is many people don´t use + in skill in their template if it reaches over 50. I asked people and they said it wouldn´t make difference except in PVE. Why do I see these results then ? Seems like every +1 in skill is about 1,5-2% damage even if it goes beyond 50 in a skill.

Time to remake my template.... with capped suppression and darkness :)

Aye i was messing about at lower realm rank doing something similar and percentage wise got similar results. Was also pretty sure i read that with 0 and 20-26 skill in darkness that the +skill noticeably effects your damage as well. As a supp sm the way i saw it was that you needed dark and supp at +11, and as such each +all magic skills is worth 10 utility, makes the items with +3 all magic very impressive.

Does the higher skill effect resists much?
 

Miff

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jun 21, 2004
Messages
109
Foadon said:
probably most dont have enough imbue and rather take better stats, the +all magic works but you dont exactly have +11 magic if u use normal good items
I agree but for number 1 priority is capping those stats now seeing thats better than +10% magic damage . So i will redo some now , probably gimp my hits for higher damage
 

Sycho

Can't get enough of FH
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
2,255
I always told people this in alb and some never listened of course xD

As far as i know it doesn't change caps but it gives you less resists on higher con mobs and also more chance to hit caps like above your damage rises, it works a bit like weaponskill on a tank it seems.Yes +11 skill is around 20% or so damage.

I would never do a caster sc template without it.

Mrmiff what nuke caps you got? and what lv master of magery aswell as spell damage?
 

Miff

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jun 21, 2004
Messages
109
Sycho said:
I always told people this in alb and some never listened of course xD

As far as i know it doesn't change caps but it gives you less resists on higher con mobs and also more chance to hit caps like above your damage rises, it works a bit like weaponskill on a tank it seems.Yes +11 skill is around 20% or so damage.

I would never do a caster sc template without it.

Mrmiff what nuke caps you got? and what lv master of magery aswell as spell damage?
MoM 2 , Not sure nuke cap :) but summat like 1100-1200 damage.

On the other hand as examples i did a test versus my friend he has 10% damage , 10% passive pierce , capped piety and so on. Our stats are almost similiar. And i hit for around 150 more damage / nuke than him . Cause he gimped his skill increase to be able to have 10% damage..

For me thats a waste of time if you have to have harder items to be able to nuke less.. Seen many people do templates like that. For instance i saw many enchanter templates with +11 light and +3 mana , to be able to cap damage ... what they dont realize is that they actually gimp their damage


Just did a search on the forums and found >>>0<<<< templates with capped light and mana..
 

Vermillon

One of Freddy's beloved
Joined
Feb 12, 2004
Messages
374
Miff said:
For me thats a waste of time if you have to have harder items to be able to nuke less.. Seen many people do templates like that. For instance i saw many enchanter templates with +11 light and +3 mana , to be able to cap damage ... what they dont realize is that they actually gimp their damage


Just did a search on the forums and found >>>0<<<< templates with capped light and mana..
It is obvious that is better for a mana chanter to have +11 light than +11, mana since they are speced to mana line their pbae dmg will do the job ok. But the dmg on nukes is that they are going fter with more on light from items. Ofc i would prefer a template with both +11.
 

Belomar

FH is my second home
Joined
Dec 30, 2003
Messages
5,107
Every skill point (even above 50) will decrease your variance (i.e. make you consistently hit closer to cap) on your nukes.
 

Stranger

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Dec 27, 2003
Messages
249
Belomar said:
Every skill point (even above 50) will decrease your variance (i.e. make you consistently hit closer to cap) on your nukes.
unless it's spec spell where it may increase cap?!
 

Cybwyn

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Dec 23, 2003
Messages
251
As far as I know, +skill above 50 does increase your damage cap. I know for a fact that it does for Longbow and Critical Strike specs so I see no reason why it shouldn't do the same for magical specs.

It also decreases your damage variance but doesn't mean you get less resists on higher level mobs in PvE; I remember seeing a grab bag once on the Herald saying that resist chance is governed solely by the level of the spell you're casting. So, whether you have 1 or 50+20 in that particular spec, the chance to land the spell is the same but the damage will differ a great deal.
 

Huntingtons

Resident Freddy
Joined
Jan 19, 2004
Messages
10,770
how about for a support class as the healing ones? will it increase their heals, and by how much? I might check it out sometime fyi :p (if none has done it)
 

Belomar

FH is my second home
Joined
Dec 30, 2003
Messages
5,107
You can raise your damage caps in Longbow or Critical Strike by overcapping, yes, but that is not true for other speclines. For damage (or healing) spells, you have a fixed delve that you simply cannot raise through skillpoints; 178dd is the delve for most baseline nukes, for instance, and having a high skill in the specline will simply decrease your variance. Accordingly, high skill in your melee line will not raise your damage cap (not 100% certain about this, since I didn't play tank classes much when I was active). To raise your damage caps, the only thing that works is ToA bonuses and RAs (no, relics will not raise your cap, it will only decrease your variance).
 

Maeloch

Part of the furniture
Joined
Jan 21, 2004
Messages
2,390
afaik, on spec nukes in RvR at least...

Every + skill over 50 gives you 0.5% damage on ur nukes.

On baselines I guess the effect is much more pronouced as ur spec lvl b4 items will be much lower to start with. Dunno any numbers tho!

Not sure exactly with mobs as I think it gets a bit more complected like sycho sez with it effecting resist rates on mobs under ur total spec lvl or something.

Oh, and it doesn't change cap, just means ur more likely to hit it.

Mael, 50th ment.
 

Darzil

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 10, 2004
Messages
2,651
Regarding Heals, I'm not an expert, but mucking around on a young cleric, it looked like you got +25% over delve when your skill (with items) was equal or greater than the level of the spell being cast.

Would mean that there is no point going past 47 in rejuve (with items) for a cleric, unless you are going higher than 47 rejuve.

Going higher might reduce resists, but I can't really see that being a problem <grin>.

Darzil
 

Pin

Can't get enough of FH
Joined
Jan 8, 2004
Messages
874
Miff said:
I did some testing with the suppression as follows in a duel:

With 49+0 i hit for 625 , 615, 624 etc
With 49+7 i hit for 695 , 704, 702 etc
With 49+17 i hit for 810 , 815 , 808 etc
Sorry, but which game did you do this testing in, because those are not numbers which you could produce in daoc.
You said in your later post that you just posted 'what you tried to remember' - unfortunately you didn't do much of a job.
For a start, the 49+0 test is made-up. Next, there should be no variance in the damages if you are standing still in the pbae. Finally, the damage difference is way too high for just changing +skill - you either raised your +pie, or something.

Real numbers (on my non-toa Ice Wiz using level 48 pbae hitting lvl 50 BB with 25% cold resist):

50+3 Cold, 208 Int - 451 (-150), 451 (-150), 451 (-150)
50+14 Cold, 208 Int - 467 (-156), 467 (-156), 467 (-156)
50+3 Cold, 295 Int - 547 (-183), 547 (-183), 547 (-183)
50+14 Cold, 295 Int - 568 (-189), 568 (-189), 568 (-189)

i.e. roughly 0.3 - 0.35% per skill point over 50. (and 0.2-0.25% per int point).

Sycho said:
I always told people this in alb and some never listened of course xD
Maybe they actually tested something?
Sycho said:
As far as i know it doesn't change caps but it gives you less resists on higher con mobs
Skill does nothing to resist rates, either in PvE, or RvR.

Resist rate in PvE is calculated based on your level and spell level vs. target level. In RvR, the character level modifiers are removed. There is no skill factor in there.
Sycho said:
Yes +11 skill is around 20% or so damage.
+11 skill is less than 4% on players when your skill is greater than their level. It's greater than that if your skill is lower than their level (which it won't be for specced pbae) due to variance, but more in the range of 10%, not 20%.
Against high-level mobs it's similar.

Belomar said:
Every skill point (even above 50) will decrease your variance (i.e. make you consistently hit closer to cap) on your nukes.
Incorrect.
Every skill point up to the level of your target will decrease your variance and raise your average damage. Every skill point above the level of your target will only increase damage.

Cybwyn said:
As far as I know, +skill above 50 does increase your damage cap. It also decreases your damage variance
It does not increase cap, nor decrease variance.
Cybwyn said:
I know for a fact that it does for Longbow and Critical Strike specs so I see no reason why it shouldn't do the same for magical specs.
Belomar said:
You can raise your damage caps in Longbow or Critical Strike by overcapping, yes, but that is not true for other speclines ... high skill in your melee line will not raise your damage cap.
Foadon said:
+skill does increase caps for melee dmg
Melee damage is made of 2 components. Base damage and style damage.
Cap on base damage does not increase with +skill, style damage does (it is a product of base damage, skill and other stuff).
Crit strike cap increases because it's a style.
Longbow damage cap increases because the style component is 'built in' as there are no bow styles.

Huntingtons said:
how about for a support class as the healing ones? will it increase their heals, and by how much? I might check it out sometime fyi :p (if none has done it)
Skill over your level does not increase your heal value. Skill level up to spell level will reduce variance on baseline heals.

Maeloch said:
Every + skill over 50 gives you 0.5% damage on ur nukes.
On baselines I guess the effect is much more pronouced as ur spec lvl b4 items will be much lower to start with. Dunno any numbers tho!
You'll see a higher increase on both baselines and low-level spec spells as +skill will both tighten variance and raise damage.
 

Sycho

Can't get enough of FH
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
2,255
Still though at the end of the day it's more damage and worth having, my bolts in pve were doing around 40-50 more damage on the same mobs that i had when using +0 fire.Also i got less resists on them after +11 fire...
 

Pin

Can't get enough of FH
Joined
Jan 8, 2004
Messages
874
Sycho said:
Still though at the end of the day it's more damage and worth having, my bolts in pve were doing around 40-50 more damage on the same mobs that i had when using +0 fire.
Yes, it's extra damage. But, for example, dropping +intcap to stick some +fire in would be a mistake ;)
Sycho said:
Also i got less resists on them after +11 fire...
That's all in your mind.
 

Path

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 21, 2004
Messages
271
Healing spells are different from DD ones in that they don't possess true caps - while DDs are limited by their delve and whatever ToA/RR bonuses you have, relics do affect heals - however + skill does not affect the caps for either; it merely serves to reduce (to the point of nullifying it; it does absolutely nothing for spec line heals; those have no variance to begin with) your variance (and in the case of DDs, serve to help you get closer to the cap versus targets you don't cap on).

And nerf Pin for posting another essay ;)
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top Bottom