Caer Sidi Raid:- Take 3

Apathy · Mar 3, 2003

I...erm...huh? I am ill dammit!

Saying that items can only be rolled for by classes which can use them isn't ideal.

I'd say it was perfect.

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old.Outlaw · Mar 3, 2003

Originally posted by ApathyEndymion
[B

A clear statement on the lotto would be appreciated. Yesterday was just disgusting.

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Lol - just becuz FC came last on the lotto with their measley 10, I personally am quite pleased all guilds got a drop, particularly of their choosing (on a random 100 basis)

As for the useless "unique" drops - trust me when I say they were crap, all < 90% Qua and sogy stats like +1 % slash etc...I wasn't goign to waste ages spamming /cg with 8 crap stats to reach the same conclusion!
If I organise any other raids fell free to watch for all drops that drop and ask for any of the "non-ubar" itamz u may be interested in!
Cuz I know most ppl are only interested in stuff >90% Qua and with semi-decent stats!

Pin · Mar 3, 2003

Originally posted by ApathyEndymion
I...erm...huh? I am ill dammit!

I'd say it was perfect.

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The particular part I disagree with is the word 'can'.

My Infiltrator _can_ use small shields
My Infiltrator _can_ use staves
My Infiltrator _can_ use slash weapons
My Infiltrator _can_ therefore be included in the lotto for any of the above, however he won't ever use any of them.

(and so on with slash-specced people rolling for maces because their class _can_ use them, etc, etc.)

Pin · Mar 3, 2003

Originally posted by old.Outlaw

As for the useless "unique" drops - trust me when I say they were crap, all < 90% Qua and sogy stats like +1 % slash etc...I wasn't goign to waste ages spamming /cg with 8 crap stats to reach the same conclusion!
If I organise any other raids fell free to watch for all drops that drop and ask for any of the "non-ubar" itamz u may be interested in!
Cuz I know most ppl are only interested in stuff >90% Qua and with semi-decent stats!

Maybe useless to wear, but not useless to salvage. Plenty of the ROG items salvage for 100-200g, which I would say made them worth either lottoing, or just giving 1 each to the attending guilds.

Apathy · Mar 3, 2003

If pedantry is all that you are interested in, then fine. So be it. But a decent lotto will be fair first and fair for the most eligible second.

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Pin · Mar 3, 2003

Originally posted by ApathyEndymion
If pedantry is all that you are interested in, then fine. So be it. But a decent lotto will be fair first and fair for the most eligible second.

a.
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Of course pedantry is all I'm interested in, I'm bored at work.

Apathy · Mar 3, 2003

Then get a new job.

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Pin · Mar 3, 2003

Originally posted by ApathyEndymion
Then get a new job.

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Nah, I love my job... Just I can go for long stretches where I have little to do.

(Usually when the pigeons are on the other side of the square)

**Aligro** · Mar 4, 2003

Originally posted by Pin
Okay Aligro. Thanks for putting out rules. Holes I would pick at them are as follows:

And if you go LD 4 hours into the raid, or die in an un-rezzable place, etc ?

then they can still be in the lotto providing they are at the lotto place at the designated time.

A complete raid might take 7 hours, are you completely excluded if you can only stay for 5 hours?

if your not at the lotto you can't bid. hence the no-one else bididng for you rule

"And what about items for classes which could use it, but are not specced to use them?"

They are allowed to bid for those items within reason, an inf can use a staff but they dont need it so they cant bid..

e.g. a thrust-specced inf bidding on slash items, or a small shield, or a staff?

**Aligro** · Mar 4, 2003

Originally posted by Pin
Okay Aligro. Thanks for putting out rules. Holes I would pick at them are as follows:

And if you go LD 4 hours into the raid, or die in an un-rezzable place, etc ?

then they can still be in the lotto providing they are at the lotto place at the designated time.

A complete raid might take 7 hours, are you completely excluded if you can only stay for 5 hours?

if your not at the lotto you can't bid. hence the no-one else bididng for you rule

"And what about items for classes which could use it, but are not specced to use them?"

They are allowed to bid for those items within reason, an inf can use a staff but they dont need it so they cant bid..

e.g. a thrust-specced inf bidding on slash items, or a small shield, or a staff?

**Aligro** · Mar 4, 2003

lol i kinda f*cked the quoting up.. nm

skile · Mar 4, 2003

Apoc is bugged?

Apathy · Mar 4, 2003

The entire place is fucked up. But it's kinda fun and the drops are still useful.

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old.Ramas · Mar 4, 2003

Personally I prefer lottoing by guild because...

1) It's quicker.

2) Every guild knows they got something, and this way everyone goes away knowing they had some particular personal involvement in getting Jim his 'Glowy staff of Uberness'. Also you don't get embarassing situations where one guild wins all the goodies purely by luck.

3) Nobody debates whether so-and-so was here for the whole raid.

4) Everyone can bring whatever character has the greatest opportunity to contribute and know that this will only effect their chance of getting any specific drop if the internal guild rules they have agreed to specify that.

5) Half the process is handled within guilds themselves, which means less silly debates with people who you don't really know and where misunderstandings or accusations tend to abound.

Yes you do need to work out a way around how to allocate when one guild has brought more people than others and so on, but on the whole I've always thought this works out ok in the end.

ANYWAY

Thanks for posting the lotto rules you are using in advance, as I said previously, it's more important that they are published than it is that any particular set is chosen.

**Aligro** · Mar 4, 2003

actually i've been thinking

theurgists and clerics are invaluable to the success... theurg because of th pets which with their pets make everyone elses chance of hititng the hardest mobs greater and cleric for firstly healing and also for the horseman..

therefore i would like to announce that as long as you have a theurg or cleric level 46+ with decent BT. then you are allowed to lotto for a non cleric/theurg items.. as long as you have a have a character that can use them who is higher level/same than your theurgist/cleric.

I hope this will lure more clerics and theurgs out as we do need them badly..

as we do everyone.

**Aligro** · Mar 4, 2003

Originally posted by old.Ramas
Personally I prefer lottoing by guild because...

1) It's quicker.

2) Every guild knows they got something, and this way everyone goes away knowing they had some particular personal involvement in getting Jim his 'Glowy staff of Uberness'. Also you don't get embarassing situations where one guild wins all the goodies purely by luck.

3) Nobody debates whether so-and-so was here for the whole raid.

4) Everyone can bring whatever character has the greatest opportunity to contribute and know that this will only effect their chance of getting any specific drop if the internal guild rules they have agreed to specify that.

5) Half the process is handled within guilds themselves, which means less silly debates with people who you don't really know and where misunderstandings or accusations tend to abound.

Yes you do need to work out a way around how to allocate when one guild has brought more people than others and so on, but on the whole I've always thought this works out ok in the end.

ANYWAY

Thanks for posting the lotto rules you are using in advance, as I said previously, it's more important that they are published than it is that any particular set is chosen.

the problem with using this method is simple.

you cant do a fair lotto when various guilds bring different amounts of people. Because then i have to get my calculator out, and i dont get my calcualtor out for anything other than maths...

No seriously as it was shown with outlaw's lotto it just doesn't work.. because then each guild takes half an hour do decide which item they want and then keep changing their minds. Then people complain saying "that isn't fair so and so's guild got 2 drops yet we had loads more people then they did" etc

honestly it's not worth the stress.

also there are guilds who only bring one or two people.. how are we supposed to please them... they contribute to the raid but yet every other guild has more players than them and there arn't enough drops to go around

old.Ramas · Mar 4, 2003

I can't say this has ever caused significant stress on a raid I've been involved in previously (I'm thinking mainly of the dragon and legion raids - others are too small to compare with sidi).

But as above more important that the method is published.

skile · Mar 4, 2003

Originally posted by **Aligro**
actually i've been thinking

theurgists and clerics are invaluable to the success... theurg because of th pets which with their pets make everyone elses chance of hititng the hardest mobs greater and cleric for firstly healing and also for the horseman..

therefore i would like to announce that as long as you have a theurg or cleric level 46+ with decent BT. then you are allowed to lotto for a non cleric/theurg items.. as long as you have a have a character that can use them who is higher level/same than your theurgist/cleric.

I hope this will lure more clerics and theurgs out as we do need them badly..

as we do everyone.

Ehw! That was bad thinking. Let ONLY theurgist's and clerics do the raid. And please then tell me tanks aren't needed. It should be the same for everyone attending. I sure won't with those lottorules.

[PS]Venom · Mar 4, 2003

Just do it item by item - let everyone bid on something they will actually USE. Don't take shit from any thrust infils wanting slash weps ect.

Lotto the big stuff out first. Anyone not at the lotto doesn't get a look in.

Yes it may take a little while - but it's really the fairest way to do it. Have someone willing to put up with the hassle of the lotto do it - you're going to need a big piece of paper to keep track of what everyone wants ect

Fairest way to do it IMHO.

**Aligro** · Mar 4, 2003

Originally posted by skile

Ehw! That was bad thinking. Let ONLY theurgist's and clerics do the raid. And please then tell me tanks aren't needed. It should be the same for everyone attending. I sure won't with those lottorules.

ok screw the rule but i still want theurgs and clerics a plenty

Apathy · Mar 4, 2003

I'll bring a lvl 35 theurg with PBT if it's THAT desperate.

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**Aligro** · Mar 4, 2003

we wub ur debuff. dont eva chng

Apathy · Mar 4, 2003

Ah I can bring my sorc too. Different accounts!

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**Aligro** · Mar 4, 2003

HAQS BAN HIM

Jiggs · Mar 4, 2003

Originally posted by ApathyEndymion

It's a bad example and would only be valid if there were NO slash/thrust/whatever people on the raid.

do you understand the ONLY clerics can hurt that horseman (fame or whatever he is called) not 'cos they use hammers or anything just because they are CLERICS

like ONLY CLERICS ok?

got it?

because you wont get far with 50infils bashing a mob which can ONLY BE HURT BY CLERICS

did i mention that ONLY CLERICS can hurt it?

Apathy · Mar 4, 2003

If those 50 infs bring their buffbots, there won't be a problem.

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Exiled · Mar 4, 2003

Originally posted by ApathyEndymion
If those 50 infs bring their buffbots, there won't be a problem.

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Aule Valar · Mar 4, 2003

the therug rule seems fine to me, the point there was that its only high lvl ones, and many bring their over lvl 50s becuase they want the items for them, not the cleric or therug, and it helps the raid a lot having one of those there

sadly i don't have another 50 character so its a moot point for me

**Aligro** · Mar 5, 2003

http://hem.passagen.se/bahl/sword1.gif

GIFV?

damn mids

pcentella · Mar 6, 2003

Originally posted by **Aligro**

ok screw the rule but i still want theurgs and clerics a plenty

If it is this way, I'll try to be there. Considering apoc's room is bugged and we are advised by GOA NOT to enter apoc's room, the thing about clerics being needed to hit a horseman isn't that important (though extra heals are always nice, of course). But I think we can't give some classes/specs benefits for the lotto because of their usefulness in the raid. Anyway, that's just my opinion.

If that rule is indeed out, count a lvl 45sorcerer in (if I can). Hmm, as a side note: ¿is a lvl 45 allowed into the raid? ¿what is the min. level? Thanks for answering

Edit: can't get the http://hem.passagen.se/bahl/sword1.gif link to work

Caer Sidi Raid:- Take 3

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