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bigfoot
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The only maps which are definitely going to be used in the new season are q3w1, q3w2, q3w3 and q3wcp5. What other maps do people think should be included?
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old.Richy Boy
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- #2
Bah
We should only play maps that DPQ can win on.
We should only play maps that DPQ can win on.
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old.[wC]BIL
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- #3
ctf2 (a must have)
q3w1 - Bloodlust by Zoid (the tweaked version a must have map
q3wc5 - Showdown by DD (good one)
q3wc6 - Twisted Base by Hype (good one)
q3wc3 - Heat by DD (good one)
q3w4 - Bitter Dungeons by Casey (pretty good)
q3w5 - Gospel Crossings by Scancode (pretty good)
q3wc8 - Ultimatium by DD (mayby)
q3wcp9 - Spider Crossings by Scancode (mayby)
q3wcp11 - Industrial Accident by Cornelius (mayby)
only my humble opinion (the rest is for big/small or just plain sucks
btw b-foot why dont have a poll for wich maps to use ?? each clan chooses and ranks lets say 5 maps
q3w1 - Bloodlust by Zoid (the tweaked version a must have map
q3wc5 - Showdown by DD (good one)
q3wc6 - Twisted Base by Hype (good one)
q3wc3 - Heat by DD (good one)
q3w4 - Bitter Dungeons by Casey (pretty good)
q3w5 - Gospel Crossings by Scancode (pretty good)
q3wc8 - Ultimatium by DD (mayby)
q3wcp9 - Spider Crossings by Scancode (mayby)
q3wcp11 - Industrial Accident by Cornelius (mayby)
only my humble opinion
(the rest is for big/small or just plain sucksbtw b-foot why dont have a poll for wich maps to use ?? each clan chooses and ranks lets say 5 maps
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old.genetix
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- #4
I'd have to say W5 should be in there, imo its the best map of the lot. CP14 too, really good map for 5v5.
w1, w2, w3, w4, w5, cp5, cp9, cp14, would be my pick.
Pleeeease no Chickenteam maps or cp11
w1, w2, w3, w4, w5, cp5, cp9, cp14, would be my pick.
Pleeeease no Chickenteam maps or cp11
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old.nEo*Ranger
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- #5
ctf2 should be included again for sure, great map (fast and high scoring, lots of trick jumps). Granted it eats fps, but that's the same for everyone.
Imo we need less spamtacular maps that aid weaker clans cos their skill deficit is hidden better (no offence to anVyone in particular). I've not seen enough other maps, but I'm glad to see japanctf go cos its uneven floors were a joke with q3's physics. Of the others I have seen, I can recommend ctctf2 as a good attacking map. Rest I can't really comment on.
P.S. Joke ppl calm down!
Imo we need less spamtacular maps that aid weaker clans cos their skill deficit is hidden better (no offence to anVyone in particular). I've not seen enough other maps, but I'm glad to see japanctf go cos its uneven floors were a joke with q3's physics. Of the others I have seen, I can recommend ctctf2 as a good attacking map. Rest I can't really comment on.
P.S. Joke ppl calm down!
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bigfoot
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- #6
Following BIL's suggestions i looked a bit more at the classic ctf maps and was a bit surprised, i think some of them will play quite well in normal ctf and they are much more the calibre of the original Q3 Threewave maps, even though some of them are modified Q2 maps .
.
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Ozh
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- #7
hooo please :/
Come on .... we've been playing 2 years non stop on CTF2, get rid of that FPS eater crap. I'm just totally fed of it. The next boring standard will be W2 for sure, which is a bit overplayed too. But as for CTF2, I personnaly have had enough enough.
CP7 was an interesting map I think. I'd be glad to play a bit more on it.
Come on .... we've been playing 2 years non stop on CTF2, get rid of that FPS eater crap. I'm just totally fed of it. The next boring standard will be W2 for sure, which is a bit overplayed too. But as for CTF2, I personnaly have had enough enough.
CP7 was an interesting map I think. I'd be glad to play a bit more on it.
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Chameleon
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- #8
NO to Japan!
YES to that 3wcp map with RA and RL in center at bottom, with base having RG at the back and LG underneath
MAYBE to the 3wcp map with the RA in the center of the map in middle of that generator thing that electricutes u
YES to any of the new ones ive played from the new 3w mod! Please include as many of these new maps as possible! I'd rather play a map slightly smaller than we're used to than have to trudge through another season of the same old, lame old.
As you can see, it didnt take ME long to learn the new map names
Ta
Ch@m
YES to that 3wcp map with RA and RL in center at bottom, with base having RG at the back and LG underneath
MAYBE to the 3wcp map with the RA in the center of the map in middle of that generator thing that electricutes u
YES to any of the new ones ive played from the new 3w mod! Please include as many of these new maps as possible! I'd rather play a map slightly smaller than we're used to than have to trudge through another season of the same old, lame old.
As you can see, it didnt take ME long to learn the new map names
Ta
Ch@m
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old.Slimseb
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I think like ozh, i'm bored to play on ctf2(i like wctf2 but really overplayed).
i think only the new version of wctf1 can be inclued to the new list because really different .
Now we have enough maps to play with this beautiful threewave pak.
a new season with new maps,
uke: ctf2
i think only the new version of wctf1 can be inclued to the new list because really different .
Now we have enough maps to play with this beautiful threewave pak.
a new season with new maps,
uke: ctf2
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old.genetix
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- #10
Agreed, wc2, wc4, wc6 all seem very nice maps. The others don't look v well suited for normal q3ctf tho.
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old.PoK
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- #11
Honestly
q3w1, q3w2, q3w3 for sure.
q3w5 is better than all the other maps both from the compilation pack and from the true threewave maps. That one should surely be in, it has 3 vertical levels in the base which no other map really has, and that adds another dimension to the game really. Tactically, the map is just great.
q3w4 is a little small, but I played it on public the other day with a 5-5 for the time, and it's pretty great still. Some say there was this game without anyone capping, well that simply happens on a map like w1 too if you have even teams. The map has some tactical elements which I really like, it's fast paced so well enjoyable.
Now JapanCTF aka q3wcp1 is definately not a great map. I think IQS was pretty good at it one time, but no one really liked it to be honest. The defence is just not a fine one and the new version of it gives some real problems for people with certain graphics settings. Me for instance. I'm main defender, while my voodoo3 makes my defence cage as bright as heaven where I'm not really able to see what is what. Not really enjoyable is it? I'm sure more others have that. The map is played a lot in the US 4-4, might be a good map for that but not for our 5-5's since you'll defend on a well other way (one main defender with a little skill blocks the game pretty much).
q3wcp5 is certainly the best map from the first compilation pack, and I would agree with putting that one in. Although the defence may get well raily it has some nice tactical moments.
The new compilation pack has maps that are average, but miss the flare to be honest. Picking one map might do, but I would be pretty against it, since there are enough better ones. All by all my map listing would then be:
q3w1, q3w2, q3w3, q3w4, q3w5, q3wcp5.
The first three threewave maps for sure, also q3w5 for sure. I really think this is the best map list, and enough really. If this would still not be enough consider q3ctf2 since that's still a classic map (don't even think about getting q3ctf3 in, that's not even worth the time on a public) loved by a lot of clans.
PoK
q3w1, q3w2, q3w3 for sure.
q3w5 is better than all the other maps both from the compilation pack and from the true threewave maps. That one should surely be in, it has 3 vertical levels in the base which no other map really has, and that adds another dimension to the game really. Tactically, the map is just great.
q3w4 is a little small, but I played it on public the other day with a 5-5 for the time, and it's pretty great still. Some say there was this game without anyone capping, well that simply happens on a map like w1 too if you have even teams. The map has some tactical elements which I really like, it's fast paced so well enjoyable.
Now JapanCTF aka q3wcp1 is definately not a great map. I think IQS was pretty good at it one time, but no one really liked it to be honest. The defence is just not a fine one and the new version of it gives some real problems for people with certain graphics settings. Me for instance. I'm main defender, while my voodoo3 makes my defence cage as bright as heaven where I'm not really able to see what is what. Not really enjoyable is it? I'm sure more others have that. The map is played a lot in the US 4-4, might be a good map for that but not for our 5-5's since you'll defend on a well other way (one main defender with a little skill blocks the game pretty much).
q3wcp5 is certainly the best map from the first compilation pack, and I would agree with putting that one in. Although the defence may get well raily it has some nice tactical moments.
The new compilation pack has maps that are average, but miss the flare to be honest. Picking one map might do, but I would be pretty against it, since there are enough better ones. All by all my map listing would then be:
q3w1, q3w2, q3w3, q3w4, q3w5, q3wcp5.
The first three threewave maps for sure, also q3w5 for sure. I really think this is the best map list, and enough really. If this would still not be enough consider q3ctf2 since that's still a classic map (don't even think about getting q3ctf3 in, that's not even worth the time on a public) loved by a lot of clans.
PoK
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old.KoTR|X-Factor
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- #12
Why not move forward ?
Let’s move in to the next season and make it the best season with fresh new maps, let’s get rid of 3w2 and cp1 and all of the id maps. I’m not saying these aren’t good maps but there old now lets move the community and the league on to new maps. Also do we have to be restricted to 6 or 7 maps why not have 11 maps playing all of them twice over the course of the season.
imo map choices should be from the following:-
q3w1
q3w3
q3w4
q3w5
q3w7
q3wcp5
q3wcp9
q3wcp10
q3wcp11
ctctf1
ctctf2
ctctf3
q3wc1
q3wc3
q3wc4
q3wc5
q3wc8
If it was upto me i would pick q3w1, q3w2, q3w3, q3w4, q3w5, q3w7, q3wcp5, q3wcp9, q3wcp11, q3wc8, ctctf3
Let’s move in to the next season and make it the best season with fresh new maps, let’s get rid of 3w2 and cp1 and all of the id maps. I’m not saying these aren’t good maps but there old now lets move the community and the league on to new maps. Also do we have to be restricted to 6 or 7 maps why not have 11 maps playing all of them twice over the course of the season.
imo map choices should be from the following:-
q3w1
q3w3
q3w4
q3w5
q3w7
q3wcp5
q3wcp9
q3wcp10
q3wcp11
ctctf1
ctctf2
ctctf3
q3wc1
q3wc3
q3wc4
q3wc5
q3wc8
If it was upto me i would pick q3w1, q3w2, q3w3, q3w4, q3w5, q3w7, q3wcp5, q3wcp9, q3wcp11, q3wc8, ctctf3
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old.[WC]Eer0
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- #13
wc6 (Good, Like the old 2fort theme)
wc5 (Good, large bases hard to defend)
wc3 (Good, oldie but goldie)
ctf2 (Good, nice map to see trick jumps etc etc..)
w4 (Good, doesnt have plasma,)
w5 (hmm, why not rock n roll instead of that church music ? ,)
chicken maps (plz no!,,)
w2 (no more, its been played to much)
The maps I like the most is the easy maps, not complex routes
or fancy schmancy stuff everywhere just the original ID idea with
q3 "keep it simple"
My vote goes to w4, wc5, wc4, wc6, ctf2
wc5 (Good, large bases hard to defend)
wc3 (Good, oldie but goldie)
ctf2 (Good, nice map to see trick jumps etc etc..)
w4 (Good, doesnt have plasma,)
w5 (hmm, why not rock n roll instead of that church music ?
,)chicken maps (plz no!,,)
w2 (no more, its been played to much)
The maps I like the most is the easy maps, not complex routes
or fancy schmancy stuff everywhere just the original ID idea with
q3 "keep it simple"
My vote goes to w4, wc5, wc4, wc6, ctf2
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old.TuKo
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- #14
my choice
my choice would be w1, w2, w3, w4, w5 and q3ctf2
and if u want 7 maps add wcp5
you will notice that i'd rather choose ctf2 than wcp5:
ctf2 has a long history .. and has been played very often.
You can't just remove a map like that for wcp5
The map is great and that's been proven by many good players in bw leagues. Extra jumps like it isn't possible on any other map anyone ever created (for q3). Wcp5 is nothing compared to it ... a bit of respect for that map plz
btw it's always cool to move on and choose new maps ... if you want to remove ctf2 take wcp5 with it then .. and choose 2 new maps. w1, w2, w3 can't be removed cause it's the basis of any ctf scene (and they are brilliant maps .. with a nicely pepped up w1)
so why did i choose w4 and w5:
cause they are simple: many ctf maps are filled with exists and wrong placed weapons. The wepons placment of a map makes all the difference, whether it gets a spam map or a more technical / teamplay map.
w4 looks promising to me .. fast action, and syncro attacks needed. (tp)
w5 3 floor concept wich would bring total fresh air to q3ctf scene.
the bases have 3 floor and the mid has 2 floors: this doesn't make recovering inpossible ... brilliant !
i didn't talk about japanctf ... it's not worth to spend my time on
it (nooOooOO to japanctf .. stop it )
summary of my choice:
you want c2?
w1,w2,w3,w4,w5,c2 (wcp5)
you don't want it ?
w1,w2,w3,w4,w5,wcp11
better keep c2 though
and think of this: many new maps means lots of work for some clans ... and if you pick bad maps it will only annoy people
(harshg, mapelnobfg, japanctf etc ..)
thx for reading
]IQS[TuKo
my choice would be w1, w2, w3, w4, w5 and q3ctf2
and if u want 7 maps add wcp5
you will notice that i'd rather choose ctf2 than wcp5:
ctf2 has a long history .. and has been played very often.
You can't just remove a map like that for wcp5
The map is great and that's been proven by many good players in bw leagues. Extra jumps like it isn't possible on any other map anyone ever created
(for q3). Wcp5 is nothing compared to it ... a bit of respect for that map plz btw it's always cool to move on and choose new maps ... if you want to remove ctf2 take wcp5 with it then .. and choose 2 new maps. w1, w2, w3 can't be removed cause it's the basis of any ctf scene (and they are brilliant maps .. with a nicely pepped up w1
)so why did i choose w4 and w5:
cause they are simple: many ctf maps are filled with exists and wrong placed weapons. The wepons placment of a map makes all the difference, whether it gets a spam map or a more technical / teamplay map.
w4 looks promising to me .. fast action, and syncro attacks needed. (tp)
w5 3 floor concept wich would bring total fresh air to q3ctf scene.
the bases have 3 floor and the mid has 2 floors: this doesn't make recovering inpossible ... brilliant !
i didn't talk about japanctf ... it's not worth to spend my time on
it
(nooOooOO to japanctf .. stop it )summary of my choice:
you want c2?
w1,w2,w3,w4,w5,c2 (wcp5)
you don't want it ?
w1,w2,w3,w4,w5,wcp11
better keep c2 though
and think of this: many new maps means lots of work for some clans ... and if you pick bad maps it will only annoy people
(harshg, mapelnobfg, japanctf etc ..)
thx for reading
]IQS[TuKo
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Chameleon
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- #15
New maps will involve a lot of work for ALL clans ............ but as long as it's still fun, that's the point init.
I'd prefer ditching the old and in with the new. Why not try them all out in the league? That'd be fun now wouldnt it
I'd prefer ditching the old and in with the new. Why not try them all out in the league? That'd be fun now wouldnt it
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Sar
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- #16
CTF2 should definitely be in, as Ranger said it IS fast paced, and fun to play.
And if you're moaning about fps GET A DECENT PC FS
Glad to see CP5 remain, as I grew to love that map over the course of the season and XPd's many practices on it.
Definitely glad to see the back of CP7 though, the lack of a rail on that map meant if the attackers got away from you you had no chance of killing them PDQ.
But if we're going to go with some new maps, I'd say go with all new maps, complete change. Use this season to really give the new TW mod maps a testing.
PS: What are the odds of using the TW mod rather than OSP. The TW mod is soooo much more smoother to play than OSP's bloatware...
And if you're moaning about fps GET A DECENT PC FS
Glad to see CP5 remain, as I grew to love that map over the course of the season and XPd's many practices on it.
Definitely glad to see the back of CP7 though, the lack of a rail on that map meant if the attackers got away from you you had no chance of killing them PDQ.
But if we're going to go with some new maps, I'd say go with all new maps, complete change. Use this season to really give the new TW mod maps a testing.
PS: What are the odds of using the TW mod rather than OSP. The TW mod is soooo much more smoother to play than OSP's bloatware...
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old.[wC]BIL
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- #17
are you joking Sar ?? i hope so for osp is far,far better then tw
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old.EntropyQ3
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- #18
I have the feeling that a thread like this one predominantly attracts the novelty happy players. So I'll be a stick in the mud, and submit that games played on new maps are invariably of lower quality than than those played on the better known. The players are not as familiar, the team doesn't function as an organic whole as effectively, it is harder to read the gameflow from what you see.
I'd rather reward player and team skill, than amount of loose time available to get familiar with new maps. But then I work and have a partner and a life of sorts. And so do many other +SO+ players.
Blasting off and having fun on a pubbie is one thing. Competitive league play with strong teams from a fair part of Europe may not be the best place to try out new maps. I have a sports attitude to clan play, and you don't see football fields being completely rebuilt every few months. I don't think the quality of football would gain, nor that it would be more "fun" for football players. Not even for those of us who enjoy kicking ball on beaches too.
+SO+Entropy
I'd rather reward player and team skill, than amount of loose time available to get familiar with new maps. But then I work and have a partner and a life of sorts. And so do many other +SO+ players.
Blasting off and having fun on a pubbie is one thing. Competitive league play with strong teams from a fair part of Europe may not be the best place to try out new maps. I have a sports attitude to clan play, and you don't see football fields being completely rebuilt every few months. I don't think the quality of football would gain, nor that it would be more "fun" for football players. Not even for those of us who enjoy kicking ball on beaches too.
+SO+Entropy
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Chameleon
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- #19
Football aint the best analogy. The only way to get new maps into the leagues is to play them. I have a life too ........ but playing the same maps for the duration of q3ctf ..................... gowan biffa, take the plunge
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old.EntropyQ3
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- #20
For example, the main argument against ctf2 is that it has been played a lot. It's a fast map, lots of options. But in my book one of the better aspects of it is that it _has_ been played a lot. Players have found favourite paths, their sense of timing has been honed, predicting gameflow and actions is easier which in turn rewards the unexpected all the more.
In short, it lets teams and players perform well, and the games are better for it.
Depends on what you are looking for of course. But I didn't get into league CTF play so that I could try out new maps. There are other forums for that, if that's what you enjoy.
+SO+Entropy
In short, it lets teams and players perform well, and the games are better for it.
Depends on what you are looking for of course. But I didn't get into league CTF play so that I could try out new maps. There are other forums for that, if that's what you enjoy.
+SO+Entropy
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bigfoot
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- #21
As i said in my original post the only maps i was certain to keep were w1, w2, w3 and cp5. Given a longer season this leaves room for probably 3 or 4 other maps, if you add in ctf2 that means only 2 or 3 other maps from what is, in my estimation, probably 10 or so which could be considered league quality.
CTF2 has some decent features and i have kept it in before when i have been told to get rid due to the bugs it has because i know it can produce some great games, however it can also produce some utterly shit games. I think whilst w1 was always moaned at for being a midfield stalemate this new version could improve that and make it more fun.
CTF2 has some decent features and i have kept it in before when i have been told to get rid due to the bugs it has because i know it can produce some great games, however it can also produce some utterly shit games. I think whilst w1 was always moaned at for being a midfield stalemate this new version could improve that and make it more fun.
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Chameleon
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- #22
hm, we would be playing the leagues on ctf1,2,3 and 4 ..... no thanks. You like 3w1,2 or 3? That's cos we 'tested' it when it came out
Some people didnt like them, but we stuck with it ....... and here we are! Come on, put the new ones in.
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old.exp
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- #23
maps
You can't scrap ctf2 its a classic and the last of id's orginal q3ctf maps. Keep q3wcp1 its a very cool map, cool design and layout satisfys both attack and defence Always get a fast and furious game on q3wcp1 cause of the layout, entrances in and out etc. Fun map. My list coming soon once i see all the new maps
You can't scrap ctf2 its a classic and the last of id's orginal q3ctf maps. Keep q3wcp1 its a very cool map, cool design and layout satisfys both attack and defence
Always get a fast and furious game on q3wcp1 cause of the layout, entrances in and out etc. Fun map. My list coming soon once i see all the new maps
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old.EntropyQ3
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- #24
I'm simply giving an opposing viewpoint.
To me, _in a competitive environment_, new maps are simply not a good thing. Even if a new map happen to be Gods gift to mankind in terms of design, I (the team) still have to put in tons of time on it to get my (our) game up to the same standard it is already at in the maps I'm more familiar with. I would MUCH prefer to improve my game on the existing maps, and more importantly improve our teamplay. Familiarity allows improvisation, makes it easier to switch roles, improves everyones ability to read what should be done from the gameflow et cetera.
+SO+ got clobbered on the new maps this season (for instance 12-0 vs WR whereas the 3w1 map ended 2-1). So we spent our praccy time trying to get decent on cp5 at least. We still aren't anywhere near the playing strength on cp5 as on the older maps. And in the process we couldn't develop our teamplay on the old maps. Given that we took in new members, I'd say it even regressed.
Spending my time trying to learn new maps for league play isn't fun. Sorry.
Playing these maps makes the game more tactically restricted. No good. Games will be strongly influenced not only by player and team skill, but by who has lots of time on their hands and nothing better to do with it than learning the ins, outs, timing, tricks and intricacies of a bunch of new maps. I don't regard this as good.
It is in the nature of a thread such as this one that it attracts those who are most enthusiastic about change.
I simply felt the need to present the case against.
+SO+Entropy
To me, _in a competitive environment_, new maps are simply not a good thing. Even if a new map happen to be Gods gift to mankind in terms of design, I (the team) still have to put in tons of time on it to get my (our) game up to the same standard it is already at in the maps I'm more familiar with. I would MUCH prefer to improve my game on the existing maps, and more importantly improve our teamplay. Familiarity allows improvisation, makes it easier to switch roles, improves everyones ability to read what should be done from the gameflow et cetera.
+SO+ got clobbered on the new maps this season (for instance 12-0 vs WR whereas the 3w1 map ended 2-1). So we spent our praccy time trying to get decent on cp5 at least. We still aren't anywhere near the playing strength on cp5 as on the older maps. And in the process we couldn't develop our teamplay on the old maps. Given that we took in new members, I'd say it even regressed.
Spending my time trying to learn new maps for league play isn't fun. Sorry.
Playing these maps makes the game more tactically restricted. No good. Games will be strongly influenced not only by player and team skill, but by who has lots of time on their hands and nothing better to do with it than learning the ins, outs, timing, tricks and intricacies of a bunch of new maps. I don't regard this as good.
It is in the nature of a thread such as this one that it attracts those who are most enthusiastic about change.
I simply felt the need to present the case against.
+SO+Entropy
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old.Eggy[POTZW]
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- #25
I can see Entropy's point, and know exactly where hes coming from. And i partly agree. But not enough..
I think we should introduce new maps, but a max of 3 a season probably. We had 2 new ones last season and 1 worked, 1 didnt really.
CP5 is now my favourite map, it is a brilliant design imo. It looks like the rail is going to dominate the base, but the relative difficulty the defender(s) have in armouring up safely stop this, along with the neccesity it forces upon the attacking side for multiple attacks/distractions. And a very satisfying 2 level dimension. It is a great teamwork map, and i would definitely not rather still be playing CTF3 say(bad example probably)just because wed used it for 4 seasons.
Freshness. The pool is going to get stagnant.
I come from a Q2 background, largely UKCCL, and using 6-7 diff maps, 1 each week. This was great, plenty of variety, different tactics each week to suit map, some you were good on, some you wernt. Playing last season Q3DM league was incredibly painful, mainly cos it was DM :0, but also because we seemed to be playing the same map each bloody week with a small pool.
W1 needed something doing, it has been, and i hope it works better now.
I think CTF2 on balance should stay. Its a very different map to play than the powerup ones. Variety again.
CP1, i like, its very fun to play, all out ballsy action. BUT, I think there is probably maps in the new packs that have more scope for TP/sophistication, so im easy if we switch it out.
Still going through the new ones....
Good 3wave timing though for Bif, and that patch huh? Very suspicious
I think we should introduce new maps, but a max of 3 a season probably. We had 2 new ones last season and 1 worked, 1 didnt really.
CP5 is now my favourite map, it is a brilliant design imo. It looks like the rail is going to dominate the base, but the relative difficulty the defender(s) have in armouring up safely stop this, along with the neccesity it forces upon the attacking side for multiple attacks/distractions. And a very satisfying 2 level dimension. It is a great teamwork map, and i would definitely not rather still be playing CTF3 say(bad example probably)just because wed used it for 4 seasons.
Freshness. The pool is going to get stagnant.
I come from a Q2 background, largely UKCCL, and using 6-7 diff maps, 1 each week. This was great, plenty of variety, different tactics each week to suit map, some you were good on, some you wernt. Playing last season Q3DM league was incredibly painful, mainly cos it was DM :0, but also because we seemed to be playing the same map each bloody week with a small pool.
W1 needed something doing, it has been, and i hope it works better now.
I think CTF2 on balance should stay. Its a very different map to play than the powerup ones. Variety again.
CP1, i like, its very fun to play, all out ballsy action. BUT, I think there is probably maps in the new packs that have more scope for TP/sophistication, so im easy if we switch it out.
Still going through the new ones....
Good 3wave timing though for Bif, and that patch huh? Very suspicious
O
old.tinder
Guest
- Thread starter
- #26
ctf2
w4
w5
w7
cp9
cp11
cp12
cp14
c5
c6
c8
thats the map i would choose from.
//Tinder*gos
w4
w5
w7
cp9
cp11
cp12
cp14
c5
c6
c8
thats the map i would choose from.
//Tinder*gos
S
Sar
Guest
- Thread starter
- #27
NOOOOOOO WE CAN'T PLAY ON NEW MAPS COS WE WON'T BE AS L33T THEN!!11
Pffft, crap excuse for stagnating the map pool imo. The league should be providing us with variety season after season, testing us and challenging teams on a constant basis. Not helping one map wonders season after season. And if you're saying that you don't have much time to put into practice because of real life commitments, well, whose problem is that?
And if games are of a lower quality, well that's cos ppl don't practice the maps enough!
New maps gives greater scope for more exciting games, as clans get to put plans into practice to catch the other teams out, something that's pretty hard to do on maps that have been played for 6 seasons. If we took Entropys advice we'd all still be playing the 4 original Id CTF maps and nothing else "just because we already know them".
I say chuck 3/4 new maps in there at least, give teams something to work at.
PS: Novelty happy players?
On pubbys maybe, but not in the top divisions of a major CTF league
Pffft, crap excuse for stagnating the map pool imo. The league should be providing us with variety season after season, testing us and challenging teams on a constant basis. Not helping one map wonders season after season. And if you're saying that you don't have much time to put into practice because of real life commitments, well, whose problem is that?
And if games are of a lower quality, well that's cos ppl don't practice the maps enough!
New maps gives greater scope for more exciting games, as clans get to put plans into practice to catch the other teams out, something that's pretty hard to do on maps that have been played for 6 seasons. If we took Entropys advice we'd all still be playing the 4 original Id CTF maps and nothing else "just because we already know them".
I say chuck 3/4 new maps in there at least, give teams something to work at.
PS: Novelty happy players?
On pubbys maybe, but not in the top divisions of a major CTF league
O
old.EntropyQ3
Guest
- Thread starter
- #28
Well Sar, I'd rather spend my time trying to improve from where I and the team stand now, than dropping that only to learn new map layouts. I'm just not particularly interested in spending my time working on that rather than on what I find far more interesting in Q3.
Time is time. It's a limited resource.
You are free to prioritize with your allotment as you please.
I play in a clan because I'm interested in quality. Switching maps (and for that matter, members) around just gets in the way. If I'd like to try out a new set of maps, then pubbies, clan servers, ctfpickup and so on are forums better suited than the league. And good places to separate the wheat from the chaff first, before deciding whether they should be added to the league map pool.
"New maps gives greater scope for more exciting games, as clans get to put plans into practice to catch the other teams out, something that's pretty hard to do on maps that have been played for 6 seasons."
If you read what you just wrote, you just agreed that the clans play a tighter game on the older maps. Better, quite simply. Whether the lack of that tightness "gives greater scope for more exciting games" is debatable. I'd just call it lower quality play.
"Novelty happy players in the higher divisions?"
Sure. Lots of people spending way too much time glued to their screens. That's a fair part of why they got good, no? That does not necessarily mean that their judgement is particularly sound or their reasoning particularly clear.
I know why I play in a clan, and in the league. If it gets too much mucked around with, I wont be able to do what I went there for, and will drop the clan-tag and go back to being Entropy on the pubbies.
Simple as that.
+SO+Entropy
Time is time. It's a limited resource.
You are free to prioritize with your allotment as you please.
I play in a clan because I'm interested in quality. Switching maps (and for that matter, members) around just gets in the way. If I'd like to try out a new set of maps, then pubbies, clan servers, ctfpickup and so on are forums better suited than the league. And good places to separate the wheat from the chaff first, before deciding whether they should be added to the league map pool.
"New maps gives greater scope for more exciting games, as clans get to put plans into practice to catch the other teams out, something that's pretty hard to do on maps that have been played for 6 seasons."
If you read what you just wrote, you just agreed that the clans play a tighter game on the older maps. Better, quite simply. Whether the lack of that tightness "gives greater scope for more exciting games" is debatable. I'd just call it lower quality play.
"Novelty happy players in the higher divisions?"
Sure. Lots of people spending way too much time glued to their screens.
That's a fair part of why they got good, no? That does not necessarily mean that their judgement is particularly sound or their reasoning particularly clear.I know why I play in a clan, and in the league. If it gets too much mucked around with, I wont be able to do what I went there for, and will drop the clan-tag and go back to being Entropy on the pubbies.
Simple as that.
+SO+Entropy
B
bigfoot
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- Thread starter
- #29
Regarding Entropys post, part of the reason why i didn't introduce many new maps in either the DM or CTF league last season was because i knew clans would be stretched to get teams out for games, let alone much in the way of practice, due to holidays and general summer stuff. Now though the nights are drawing in and people *should* have more time to practice.
The point you make about your WR game, this simply doesn't make sense. CP7 is in general a higher scoring map than wctf1, so it is little surprise you lost by a bigger margin than on wctf1. Plus i think there is a valid point that wctf1 is a far more forgiving map than the vast majority of other maps, equalising out clan ability due to its layout (prior to the recent changes anyhow).
I think change is good as long as it is reasoned change. If a new map has the potential to be better than existing maps then it deserves to be use, if we followed your example Entropy we would still be using q3ctf1 and q3ctf3, both of which are pretty poor maps imo.
That said, the fiercest opposition of change is usually "top level" clans who do not enjoy putting the time and effort into learning new maps and prefer to play with what they know. This does pose problems in leagues as diverse as the BarrysWorld ones although maps such as cp1, cp5 and cpm4 (in tdm) show that trying out these new maps can lead to some new favourites being unearthed. It is also pleasing to see a number of players from top clans here asking for some new maps to be included, if i suggested using 3 new maps in TDM i would be chased by a lynch mob probably.
The point you make about your WR game, this simply doesn't make sense. CP7 is in general a higher scoring map than wctf1, so it is little surprise you lost by a bigger margin than on wctf1. Plus i think there is a valid point that wctf1 is a far more forgiving map than the vast majority of other maps, equalising out clan ability due to its layout (prior to the recent changes anyhow).
I think change is good as long as it is reasoned change. If a new map has the potential to be better than existing maps then it deserves to be use, if we followed your example Entropy we would still be using q3ctf1 and q3ctf3, both of which are pretty poor maps imo.
That said, the fiercest opposition of change is usually "top level" clans who do not enjoy putting the time and effort into learning new maps and prefer to play with what they know. This does pose problems in leagues as diverse as the BarrysWorld ones although maps such as cp1, cp5 and cpm4 (in tdm) show that trying out these new maps can lead to some new favourites being unearthed. It is also pleasing to see a number of players from top clans here asking for some new maps to be included, if i suggested using 3 new maps in TDM i would be chased by a lynch mob probably
.
O
old.EntropyQ3
Guest
- Thread starter
- #30
Short response, Bif, then I've had my say and will be off.
"CP7 is in general a higher scoring map than wctf1, so it is little surprise you lost by a bigger margin than on wctf1. Plus i think there is a valid point that wctf1 is a far more forgiving map than the vast majority of other maps, equalising out clan ability due to its layout."
This is true. But the inside scoop is that when we played that game we hadn't practised that map even once as a team... The humiliation WR dished out caused some internal soul-searching afterwards and we actually made some effort to come to grips with cp5, and we still see internal organisation as our major task this season.
My point here is unrelated to +SO+ though, and is that a context such as this attracts the people who think new maps are fun and who would like to discuss them. There are other kinds of players though, who simply want to play as good a game as possible and don't necessarily see changing the map pool around as a good thing. And their reasons can actually be pretty valid.
I'm giving them a voice here. How many they are is impossible to say. Quite a few, is my guess. I actually trust Bigfoot to be reasonable on this issue though. Most people who do some kind of job realize that spending oodles of time learning new maps, devising preliminary tactics, discussing them on webbys and irc, testing them, going back to the drawing board for another round just takes too damn much time. And it feels a whole lot more like work than fun to boot. And in the end you'll still play a less organic game than on the maps you know well.
'nuff said. Point made.
Feel free to frag the messenger.
+SO+Entropy
"CP7 is in general a higher scoring map than wctf1, so it is little surprise you lost by a bigger margin than on wctf1. Plus i think there is a valid point that wctf1 is a far more forgiving map than the vast majority of other maps, equalising out clan ability due to its layout."
This is true. But the inside scoop is that when we played that game we hadn't practised that map even once as a team... The humiliation WR dished out caused some internal soul-searching afterwards and we actually made some effort to come to grips with cp5, and we still see internal organisation as our major task this season.
My point here is unrelated to +SO+ though, and is that a context such as this attracts the people who think new maps are fun and who would like to discuss them. There are other kinds of players though, who simply want to play as good a game as possible and don't necessarily see changing the map pool around as a good thing. And their reasons can actually be pretty valid.
I'm giving them a voice here. How many they are is impossible to say. Quite a few, is my guess. I actually trust Bigfoot to be reasonable on this issue though. Most people who do some kind of job realize that spending oodles of time learning new maps, devising preliminary tactics, discussing them on webbys and irc, testing them, going back to the drawing board for another round just takes too damn much time. And it feels a whole lot more like work than fun to boot. And in the end you'll still play a less organic game than on the maps you know well.
'nuff said. Point made.
Feel free to frag the messenger.
+SO+Entropy