Buy your cap guns quick!

[rynnor]

The Violent Crime reduction bill will soon pass into law - it creates a lot of new laws amongst which it creates new offenses to buy / sell / manufacture / import 'realistic imitation firearms' - this includes non -functioning replicas/airsoft weapons/blank firers and even cap guns.

It doesnt make it illegal to own them though so the millions already in the country are un-touched and I think its safe to assume criminals wont take much notice so once again we have firearms legislation which does nothing but penalise law abiding folk

 

[nath]

Citation please? I know a fair few airsoft shops that'll be going out of business if this comes in to effect. Sounds like a fucking pointless law.

 

[throdgrain]

It is true Nath, theres been a big thing to exclude airsoft because of the "sporting " side of things.
Class Labour banning things again.

 

[rynnor]

It is true Nath, theres been a big thing to exclude airsoft because of the "sporting " side of things.
Class Labour banning things again.

Airsoft were un-sucessfull though - they failed to get any amendments for their sport - there were amendments to provide defenses if you use the weapons for historic re-enactment or film or tv but even these are just defenses - you could still end up in court subject to the whim of a judge.

Heres the act - http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200506/cmbills/010/06010.i-v.html

Heres details of the bills progress and the defenses - http://groups.msn.com/TheWGLimited/violentcrimereductionbill.msnw

The government wants to sound like its doing something about violent crime - the fact that these measures will likely have no effect is not a consideration for them.

 

[throdgrain]

The government wants to sound like its doing something about violent crime - the fact that these measures will likely have no effect is not a consideration for them.

Same as they do for everything. Soon there will be a bill to make murder illegal, Labour will just be hoping no one has noticed its already against the law.

 

[tris-]

what a load of bollocks. england feels more like a communist state by the day.

no saint george flags, more rights for criminals (read:chavs), more punishment for the hard working etc.

just what the fuckery bollocks is wrong with airsoft? i take it this also bans the sale of cross bows and bow/arrows?

bye bye competitive sports :\

btw i think you got it wrong about not effecting people already owning such guns -

"“21A


Firing an air weapon beyond premises


A person commits an offence if—


(a)


he has with him an air weapon on any premises; and


"

that says to me having an air weapon on your premises is an offence. though none of this is really set in stone untill the first case goes to court and we can see what the judge has to say about it. actually on reading the bill even further, i think rynnor hasnt fully analysed it

 

[ECA]

Such a fucking lol, real criminals will continue buying real guns for as little as £200, and shoot people.

Yes the vast majority of armed robberies are committed by replicas - how does this law help? Its only going to bump up the rate of "real" weapons being used, ie knives being used instead of replicas, guess we'll all be safer? lol.

New Labour, same old bullshit.

 

[Cdr]

Tris - that part of the Bill is taken waaaay out of context.

Part 2 Subsection 27 Firing an air weapon beyond premises
(1) The 1968 Act is amended as follows.
(2) After section 21 (possession of firearms by persons previously convicted of
crime) insert—

“21A
Firing an air weapon beyond premises
A person commits an offence if—
(a) he has with him an air weapon on any premises; and
(b) he uses it for firing a missile beyond those premises.”

It's basically saying that to be convicted of the offence of 'firing an air weapon beyond premises', you must a) have a weapon on the premises and b) use it for firing at things outside his premise.

It doesn't say that you'll be pulled up if you just have a weapon in the house etc. You must be careful when reading statutes / bills etc, and not take parts of it on its own - there is normally a number of criteria you have to fulfill to be guilty of a certain offence.

 

[tris-]

Tris - that part of the Bill is taken waaaay out of context.

aye im sorry, probably not a good idea to read bills when im pissed

 

[rynnor]

i think rynnor hasnt fully analysed it

I have only looked at a small section but I notice that theres other bizarre stuff in it -

- Drinks banning orders - effectively banning you from any place that sells alcohol for a period between 3 months to 2 years - ouch!

- Powers for Teachers to search kids for weapons - interesting bit is the teacher 'may use such force as is reasonable in the circumstances' which is a very usefull phrase - they cant strip search you tho luckily...

-raising the age you can buy an air weapon at from 17 to 18 - to put this in context it was only a couple of years ago that the same government raised it from 14 to 17 - they have done no analysis of the effect of this previous raise and they didnt have any figures for offences committed by 17 year olds so why raise it?

 

[soze]

Air Soft will just have to start making the weapons so they do not look like real weapons then they can carry on to sell them no? Or make the barrels red so they can tell they are air soft so they are not imitation?

 

[Frizz]

Ban the M.O.D.

 

[rynnor]

Air Soft will just have to start making the weapons so they do not look like real weapons then they can carry on to sell them no? Or make the barrels red so they can tell they are air soft so they are not imitation?

Yep thats a way around it although its un-clear how much you'd have to modify them to exclude them from the act and so far it seems it will be down to the policeman/judges discretion which isnt good - manufacturers may not be willing to take a chance in this situation plus it means uk ones will have to be custom made = expensive

 

[Kryten]

And how long before people make real weapons with red barrels :|

Why do they bother at all - rather than making more things illegal which has NO effect at all, ever - actually put the time and money in physical, actual crackdowns on gun crime.

 

[throdgrain]

And how long before people make real weapons with red barrels :|

Why do they bother at all - rather than making more things illegal which has NO effect at all, ever - actually put the time and money in physical, actual crackdowns on gun crime.

The answer is in your question mate

 

[rynnor]

Why do they bother at all - rather than making more things illegal which has NO effect at all, ever - actually put the time and money in physical, actual crackdowns on gun crime.

It makes good soundbites and it costs nowt to pass a lot of laws even though in reality it will do nothing - to really sort out guncrime would mean more police and more prisons - not cheap.

 

[soze]

And how long before people make real weapons with red barrels :|

Why do they bother at all - rather than making more things illegal which has NO effect at all, ever - actually put the time and money in physical, actual crackdowns on gun crime.

This rule is because of things like that guy who waved a cap gun at a cop. This meant the cops had to get the arvs out and you end up with some smuck shagging the pavement with real guns pointed at his head. Its a waste of money so they are trying to ban realistic replicas so they can concentrate on sending arvs ect after real gun crimes. Easy really.

Plus when it becomes illegal to sell something its not the police that run around making sure shops stop its the trading standards isn't it?

Also thats why i said they could make airsoft guns that are not replicas.

 

[inactionman]

Balls, this may even cover the new masterpiece megatron coming out in march!

Stupid law, but then politicians would rather be seen to be doing something, and get all the press attention, than to actually go to all the trouble and effort (and expense, of course) of actually doing something that fixes the issue.

 

[tris-]

Plus when it becomes illegal to sell something its not the police that run around making sure shops stop its the trading standards isn't it?

hmm you maybe right. i better read this bill in more detail and watch for any progress.
our uni exams etc are based on current events like this :\

 

[Kryten]

End of the day, i think we'd all be all for "model" guns that were obviously not even near replicas - but the issue there is guns are designed to be held and used in a certain way for efficiency etc - hence similar designs in supermarket pricing, tagging and clothing tagging guns.

The policeman having an airsoft gun pointed at him would have been within rights to call in armed response even should the assailant have been aiming a super soaker 3000 at him. How is the policeman not to know it's filled with industrial drain cleaner. More deadly than a gun. Looks harmless.

Whole load of issues surrounding the whole subject and it will go on for years to come

 

[throdgrain]

Hand guns should be legally available, licensed, for self defence anyway.

 

[inactionman]

Rubbish, adults should freely be able to buy things that look like a gun, but don't function as one. Making non-functional replicas illegal is idiotic, you can't regulate based on the actions of stupid people and criminals! Except for those rare circumstances where you have to, eg murder, rape, etc.

If someone is brandishing something that looks like a gun in public and they get killed by armed police, then it's their own damned fault, their mourning relatives have no-one else to blame! I really am getting annoyed at the growing trend that people want the state to nanny them, and they refuse to take responsibility for their own actions. Generally nanny (the state) does NOT know best, as it's run by self-serving political scumbags who make unmeasured knee-jerk reactions to issues!

What next, a ban on swords/axes/other weapons normally kept as art? In that case call the police around mine, as I collect weapons, most of which are modern reproductions, and almost all of which could easily be used as functional weapons (they are made of decent steel and are primarily designed to actually be used as a weapon, not ornaments). Plus there's a couple of wrenches and a hammer in my toolbox, some sharp knives in the kitchen and those saucepans/frying pans could be used as an improvised club in a pinch, not to mention there's a few 2x4's in my shed....

Domestic gun ownership I'm not sold on, I can see the reasons for it if people are properly trained and licensed for it (particularly if the despicable trend of authoritarianism continues in government) but it has it's downsides (see the states).

 

[rynnor]

This rule is because of things like that guy who waved a cap gun at a cop. This meant the cops had to get the arvs out and you end up with some smuck shagging the pavement with real guns pointed at his head.

We already have laws that make waving replicas around illegal and the new law does nothing about the millions already owned by people.

 

[soze]

We already have laws that make waving replicas around illegal and the new law does nothing about the millions already owned by people.

I did not say i agree or think its valid but thats the reason they gave for it on the news. The guy got it from a shop and waved it at a cop then said he did not know he was alloed to do it. The law is pointless yes blanks and decomishioned guns should be illegal not air soft. Becasue tbh if you are stupid enough to point a gun at a cop with a real gun you deserve to be shoot.

 

[Skyler]

I'd rather see something done about all the knives and blades carried by all sorts of people since those are much much more widespread, get used and can actually kill people.

There is nothing wrong with Airsoft guns, yes they look like the real thing and some people can misuse that fact to scare people. But at the end of the day, I'd rather those idiots use an Airsoft gun to scare someone to get their money than a knife or a real gun, at least they wont be killed for 20 quid.

But there should be a huge crackdown on the people that commit crimes like mugging and robbery.

Crooks will get guns like they always have and banning Replicas wont hurt. Leaving so many replicas in circulation again wont help.

Part of the problem with airsoft weapons is parents letting their kids get them, they aren't allowed to do that and ever since parents started to do that this became a problem. These types of replicas have been around for 15 years if not more and they've only really become a problem in the last 6 years.

As for people being shot for carrying Airsoft weapons, good, it's their own damn fault and no one should ever question the police for it. If I walk around with my Sig SG552 AEG I fully expect someone to get scared and call the police and then have an ARV paying me a visit. At that point assuming I was stupid enough to wave it around to get an ARV, if I still stood there, refused to drop it or even pointed it at the police then what the hell should I expect? Same goes for anyone else, the police don't want to shoot people, they would rather you dropped the weapon, they give you every chance to drop it and only shoot when threatened.

Airsoft is a superior hobby to paintball, as you have realistic loads of ammo, simulated ranges for different guns, proper shaped guns therefore all the ergonomics and comfort associated with said gun is there for you rather than a retarded looking paintball gun.

They talked a while back about licensing Airsoft/Replica gun owners so they'd have a database of everyone that owned one. But of course, this would be a database of all the honest people. Then when there's a shooting or incident nearby they will pay those honest people a visit and have them as a suspect or at least enquire, which is wrong.

They need to realise that making laws which only effect honest, fair and non fucked up people solves nothing and only hurts those people.

A stupid kid with an Airsoft pistol can still hide it, keep it, wave it around, pretend it's real, regardless of what laws they put in.

 

[Mofo8]

To paraphrase a really old Viz letter:

"Next they'll be telling us we can't shoot elephants. Where are we supposed to get our ivory from then?"

Probably they shouldn't ban these replicas, but when buying one you should have to sign a disclaimer exempting the Police from prosecution if they ever end up shooting you.

Mind you I do own a couple of air rifles, one of which doesn't really look like an air rifle

 

[rynnor]

Its easy to really crack down on violent crime - you just make the sentencing a lot harsher - posession of a real firearm = 10 years inside without parole etc.

Its not cheap although I think that it would be a massive deterrent and would send a message out.

This batch of laws will do nothing - everyone will still get away with everything a million times so its pointless.

 

[nath]

America suggests that having harsher crimes isn't a deterrent - they've got the death penalty there but it doesn't seem to prevent violent crimes.

 

[tris-]

America suggests that having harsher crimes isn't a deterrent - they've got the death penalty there but it doesn't seem to prevent violent crimes.

i dont know if thats totally correct though. if someone is going to kill someone then i believe they will do it regardless of the penalty. you could say its in the killers nature that they will kill no matter what.

just my oppinion mind you, im not criminal psychologist

 

[Tom]

Its easy to really crack down on violent crime - you just make the sentencing a lot harsher - posession of a real firearm = 10 years inside without parole etc.

I'd rather leave the sentencing to judges tbh. Politicians and justice don't mix.