Bugzy learnt an important lesson today - popularity counts!

[Helme]

But we do!

The live action roleplay people will pay insane amounts of money for handcrafted swords and stuff!

 

[tris-]

Custom cars/choppers, custom metalwork on houses and such, there's plenty of metallurgy work to be done.

Ofcourse we don't NEED it, and there's no difference as such, never claimed there was, but that's not what i'm saying against here. I'm saying against your claim that they are useless.

but you dont need a degree to be a car mechanic or a welder.

im betting most people who do welding and what not do not have a degree for that, you dont NEED a degree for it.

 

[old.Tohtori]

but you dont need a degree to be a car mechanic or a welder.

im betting most people who do welding and what not do not have a degree for that, you dont NEED a degree for it.

And what about those who want to do the job, but don't know how?

Or those people who want to better their skills at it?

Or those who can't get an internship?

We might live without it, sure, but there's no harm in having it around as it's a valid option and as such, needed by some.

Might ask you, what do you do for a living and do we really need you to do it? If you nitpick enough, anything can be deemed "useless".

 

[tris-]

Might ask you, what do you do for a living and do we really need you to do it? If you nitpick enough, anything can be deemed "useless".

im a student, thats what i do for a living.

it doesnt matter what you say, having a degree telling you how people should dress is a waste of time.

 

[Helme]

Looking at how people are obsessing with how they look I'd say it's not. Especially considering the fact how much it makes, and since making money seems to be the meaning of the modern life....

 

[old.Tohtori]

tris-, you being a student, plan on being a student forever? Wanna leech your way through life, or plan on having a real job? And if so, what the f*ck is that thing you will be doing. And if you ARE gonna have a job, do we need it? I doubt it, according to your logic.

But...

it doesnt matter what you say,

Yeah, that about sums up todays cop-out quota, no need to discuss with you anymore.

 

[tris-]

Yeah, that about sums up todays cop-out quota, no need to discuss with you anymore.

you give no good argument why we need someone to study for 3 years to get a degree in shoe colours and lace combinations.

welders do not need a degree. they get better by doing the job.

you do not need a degree to be a mechanic, you need experience.

you do not need a degree to shape metal, you need experience.

to get ON THE JOB EXPERIENCE, you get a job doing it, as an apprentice or doing it in your spare time and being able to show your skill to someone who needs you. making up a portfolio etc. i.e a webdesigner, or freelance photographer.

And if you ARE gonna have a job, do we need it? I doubt it, according to your logic.

well no you dont need it, then again you dont live in britain so why would you? if you think law enforcement is worthless and un-needed, good for you.
my degree is not pointless, considering that by law i need the correct qualifications to do the job.

 

[old.Tohtori]

you give no good argument why we need someone to study for 3 years to get a degree in shoe colours and lace combinations.

well no you dont need it, then again you dont live in britain so why would you? if you think law enforcement is worthless and un-needed, good for you.
my degree is not pointless, considering that by law i need the correct qualifications to do the job.

You give no argument at anything, or even answers, just say "no, you wrong, i right, my way better always". Like discussing things with a f*cking parrot.

You're the one who started saying things are useless. As in, as a whole, to all, as in we. It was never about what I or YOU need.You could learn your job on the job too, but ofcourse, since it's tris-s job, it NEEDS a degree.

Heck, you could sstart off as a security guard with no training, learn it on the job, then advance by doing the job, having some courses in between and then apply for police etc etc. But no, tris- job important, tris- strong, tris- NEED degree.

I gave plenty of reasoning to your original "useless" claim, but you quite nicely avoided and ingnored them all.

 

[tris-]

You could learn your job on the job too, but ofcourse, since it's tris-s job, it NEEDS a degree.

yes thats correct you need qualifications. you cannot do the job i plan to do by just learning on the job, considering you cant even get the job without having the qualifications.

it even says so in the act of parliament under which i want to work. that no one without the correct qualifications can enforce that particular law.

 

[old.Tohtori]

yes thats correct you need qualifications. you cannot do the job i plan to do by just learning on the job, considering you cant even get the job without having the qualifications.

it even says so in the act of parliament under which i want to work. that no one without the correct qualifications can enforce that particular law.

And what about fahsion houses, designer places, that require a degree in fashion to even apply to be an apprentice?

Or is it, "work somewhere else", which ofcourse doesn't apply to you.

Oh and, you don't NEED a degree for qualifications. I'm betting you could get the job by other means too. <--just for you so you can ignore everything else said.

 

[tris-]

And what about fahsion houses, designer places, that require a degree in fashion to even apply to be an apprentice?


Oh and, you don't NEED a degree for qualifications. I'm betting you could get the job by other means too. <--just for you so you can ignore everything else said.

care to elaborate on these other means?

bearing in mind you cannot get the job without having the required qualifications.

and how is fashion usefull, to anyone? thats my point. it does not help anyone that someone spent 3 years finding out what this seasons new black is, or how thick a stripe should be to make you look 10stone less.

doctor = useful
lawyer = useful
dentist = useful
fashion 'expert' = not useful
police = useful

 

[kivik]

Catfight!

 

[old.Tohtori]

care to elaborate on these other means?

bearing in mind you cannot get the job without having the required qualifications.

and how is fashion usefull, to anyone? thats my point. it does not help anyone that someone spent 3 years finding out what this seasons new black is, or how thick a stripe should be to make you look 10stone less.

I don't know the UK law and needs of all the places you might work as a security guard or whatnot in. But i'm betting you COULD learn the job without a degree, with some classes in particular fields etc. Should find out, if i could be arsed at the moment.

Also, bear in mind, the point i made that you need a degree in fashion to work at certain places.

FAshion is fashion, it's part of our community, without it, hell, who knows what might happen. Morale could plumit, people could suicide more, hell if i know. But as such, it's part of us, so we need people working on it and as such, need degrees on it.

Are you so f*cking god all-of-a-sudden that you are to say what people should or shouldn't do with their life?

Cook=useless (could always cook at home)
Busdriver=useless (people would use cars)
security guard=useless (police can do it)

...like i said, anything can be twisted to fit your logic.

Lawyers are useless too, we could just have someone judge salomon style.
HEll, dentist are useless too, you don't really NEED your teeth and with washing, you can keep em healthy enough.

 

[tris-]

But i'm betting you COULD learn the job without a degree

Are you so f*cking god al-of-a-sudden that you are to say what people should or shouldn't do with their life?

Cook=useless (could always cook at home)
Busdriver=useless (people would use cars)
security guard=useless (police can do it)

...like i said, anything can be twisted to fit your logic.

Lawyers are useless too, we could just have someone judge salomon style.
HEll, dentist are useless too, you don't really NEED your teeth and with washing, you can keep em healthy enough.

lol.
thats all i can say to your bullshit.

police cant be security guards to every single place in britiain, thered be no police left to enforce the law.

bus driver is not useless, in anyway. you cant even get a degree for that though, not afaik.

if you didnt have teeth how would you eat? you cant get false ones without a dentist making them for you.

cooks work in restraunts, and restraunts probably contribute a shit load to the economy. but you dont need a degree to be a cook either, i didnt even know you could get one.

i never said what people should or should not do, i simply stated in my opinion fashion is useless and you went off the rails.

and no, you CANNOT do the job without qualifications. im sure i saidf that though didnt i?

 

[old.Tohtori]

cooks work in restraunts, and restraunts probably contribute a shit load to the economy. but you dont need a degree to be a cook either, i didnt even know you could get one.

i never said what people should or should not do, i simply stated in my opinion fashion is useless and you went off the rails.

and no, you CANNOT do the job without qualifications. im sure i saidf that though didnt i?

Ofcourse it's bullsh*t since it's not your opinion. It's tris- land.

So restaurants contribute? And places that sell clothes, don't? Or do ou think we should all wear tris- outfits?

You said just that, and didn't limit your saying to fashion, that people shouldn't get a degree and as such, some people shouldn't work in fashion or metallurgy.

Qualifications and degree ain't the same thing, isn't that what you said? That you don't NEED a degree?

I didn't go off the rails, i just asnwer what you post about. I've kept quite on rails that your claim is pure horse maneur. You just twist and move the discussion so it fits your side.

But if you REALLY need me to say my points again, here they are, so you understand a bit better:

- Fashion/metallurgy/etc isn't useless. It has uses, and is part of the economy.
- Just because you don't think we NEED something, doesn't mean it shouldn't be.
- Some people DO NEED a degree in places where YOU think they don't. As it's their only way to get a job in what they want.

 

[tris-]

you dont need a fashion degree to work in jd sports.

they sell clothes and the people that work there are on minimum wage with the same a levels as bugz.

 

[old.Tohtori]

you dont need a fashion degree to work in jd sports.

they sell clothes and the people that work there are on minimum wage with the same a levels as bugz.

Well an't you a smart one.

Who do you think design clothes? Or do you think clothes appear in clothing stores from magic fairyland? And without fashion(which means style of clothes by the way), we would wear tris- uniforms that wouldn't need a store.

For f*cks sake you're really grasping at straws now...but i do want to applaud you on completely ignoring yet another post and pick out one line that you can twist to your liking.

 

[tris-]

Who do you think design clothes?

clothes designers??

whats all this tris uniforms and tris land though, sounds interesting.

 

[old.Tohtori]

clothes designers??

whats all this tris uniforms and tris land though, sounds interesting.

And little trissy...that's what you want fashion training on, and in many places, NEED. To make happy clothes.

 

[tris-]

so weve concluded then, fashion designers do not need a degree.

 

[old.Tohtori]

so weve concluded then, fashion designers do not need a degree.

*sigh*

Like you said, it doesn't matter what i say...because tris- is always right <---sarcasm, unless your tris- goggles missed it.

NS

 

[Chronictank]

 

[tris-]

Like you said, it doesn't matter what i say...

correct!

 

[Amildin]

Jesus you two have gone off on one.

Firstly fashion is a huge business contributing largely to the economy and i dont think we could do without it, what would woman do at weekends then?

Secondly, there are much more economically efficient ways of getting into the fashion industry than taking a degree in it. Apprenticeships to get into the fashion industry generally dont require a degree as long as a level of natural talent is displayed.

Ever heard of giving someone a chance, even if they don't have THAT much skill...

no? If someones no good at something but enjoys it it should be a hobby not a job surely?

and what cook in their right mind would go to uni to learn to cook? take a night course at college and join a kitchen as an apprentice, thats how 2 of my friends have done it and ones a head chef in a London restaurant now.

Toh you dont seem to take the economic and time commitments of a degree into hand. Im pretty sure all these new courses uni's are providing like football studies are part of the reason we now have to pay through our nose for tuition fees. When there are much better alternatives to uni but no-one wants to take them now, leaving thousands of people in debt, how is that a good thing?

Quick edit: Also iirc tris' degree was to do with consumer law, not becoming a police officer. Consumer law which im guessing will take into a pretty specific job. Just from reading thought you two had your wires crossed bout that.

 

[old.Tohtori]

A: no? If someones no good at something but enjoys it it should be a hobby not a job surely?

B: and what cook in their right mind would go to uni to learn to cook? take a night course at college and join a kitchen as an apprentice, thats how 2 of my friends have done it and ones a head chef in a London restaurant now.

C: Toh you dont seem to take the economic and time commitments of a degree into hand. Im pretty sure all these new courses uni's are providing like football studies are part of the reason we now have to pay through our nose for tuition fees. When there are much better alternatives to uni but no-one wants to take them now, leaving thousands of people in debt, how is that a good thing?

D: Quick edit: Also iirc tris' degree was to do with consumer law, not becoming a police officer. Consumer law which im guessing will take into a pretty specific job. Just from reading thought you two had your wires crossed bout that.

A: Well i have to disagree and say that everyone can and should be able to try and do what they want. To such, a fashion degree would be a legitimate asnwer. You don't have to know how to do something, to train and make a living out of it.

B: Well it wasn't about cooks degrees, more about "useful or not", but the point was lost by tris-. It was meant as an example on how everything can be turned to "useless".

C: But if people want to train to something at uni, and get that debt, shouldn't people be allowed to do so? Some might think a degree is useless, but some might not, so why say it's useless if it's a valid option for someone.

D: Well, law enforcer is waht tris- said, so i'm guessing he's gonna be a police officer or some such. Otherwise he's just a lying f*ck.

 

[tris-]

D: Well, law enforcer is waht tris- said, so i'm guessing he's gonna be a police officer or some such. Otherwise he's just a lying f*ck.

yes ofc im lieing, i actually want to work in mc donalds.

 

[Amildin]

A: Well i have to disagree and say that everyone can and should be able to try and do what they want. To such, a fashion degree would be a legitimate asnwer. You don't have to know how to do something, to train and make a living out of it.

B: Well it wasn't about cooks degrees, more about "useful or not", but the point was lost by tris-. It was meant as an example on how everything can be turned to "useless".

C: But if people want to train to something at uni, and get that debt, shouldn't people be allowed to do so? Some might think a degree is useless, but some might not, so why say it's useless if it's a valid option for someone.

D: Well, law enforcer is waht tris- said, so i'm guessing he's gonna be a police officer or some such. Otherwise he's just a lying f*ck.

A: And they can, I just disagree that they should be able to do a job badly and waste resources and money. The government subsidises universities greatly which then in turn reflects on everyone elses taxes. So in a way, they are going to university wasting a lot of other peoples money and doing a degree they will never be able to get a viable job in because they arent good at it. They may have fun but will end up broke and in debt. Which leads me onto point C, a lot of people take student loans (and other loans whilst at uni) and cannot pay it back because their "useless" degree has landed them with a job they could have done without the 30 grand debt. Leaving the bank in a shit position and again fucking everyone elses life up. There was also a loop hole to write off your student debt if you dont pay it by a certain time period, not sure if thats still around but just another example of why people shouldnt be allowed to go to uni with no end result.

B: Ah k. But it is imo another good example where an apprenticeship outweighs a degree in training for a job.

You said that every job could be done by an apprenticeship, but it really cant. In some there is far too much theory that requires teaching facilities and professors to explain the theory. It also requires a lot of free time to learn, which companies wont pay you for, or will end up paying you a lower salary at the end on a huge contract as they've invested so much in you.

 

[old.Tohtori]

A: And they can, I just disag*snip* much in you.

A&C: Well this doesn't differe from many oethr students, who don't get a job, either. Atleast if you want to think it from that point of view. Not ALL people who doa fashion degree surely go unemployed?

B: I disagree, you should train to be a chef, over a period of time. It teaches you so much more, then just cooking at a kitchen. PErsonal experience talking.

I don't think i said every job can be done via apprenticeship, if i did, then surely didn't mean it. I said that police officer training can be done via other means, this doesn't limit the options to apprenticeship. But, shouldn't that same logic then be used, as in "requires lot of free time to learn etc", for fashion aswell?

 

[Succi]

tris winz

 

[Amildin]

A&C: Well this doesn't differe from many oethr students, who don't get a job, either. Atleast if you want to think it from that point of view. Not ALL people who doa fashion degree surely go unemployed?

B: I disagree, you should train to be a chef, over a period of time. It teaches you so much more, then just cooking at a kitchen. PErsonal experience talking.

I don't think i said every job can be done via apprenticeship, if i did, then surely didn't mean it. I said that police officer training can be done via other means, this doesn't limit the options to apprenticeship. But, shouldn't that same logic then be used, as in "requires lot of free time to learn etc", for fashion aswell?

what do you mean police officer training can be done by other means? surely only the police can train their officers? and police officers do have an apprenticeship of sorts, think its called probation period of 2 years in which they shadow a more senoir officer after their training.

fashion has a lot less theory behind it and much more practical personal experience to do with it. In this time you can do work and learn from other people doing the work.

yea, you train to be a chef by being taught by another chef. what you mean it teaches you more than cooking? like how to run a kitchen etc? that also comes through personal experience...

for A&C im not just targeting fashion but any "useless" degree that prepares for a job that can be taught another way. True it doesnt differ from any students that bum round after their degree but thats a personal choice. Im talking about they're degree not being useful because they werent right for that profession in the start and therefore cannot pay off they're debts.