News Botched Sting Operation.

[tierk]

Dont get caught in the USA with a bag of weed or you could end up like this poor girl.

ABC News: Botched Sting: Killed With Gun She Was Supposed to Buy

 

[Uara]

jesus, thats messed up!! But I bet the police involved will get away with just a slap on a wrist.

 

[tierk]

jesus, thats messed up!! But I bet the police involved will get away with just a slap on a wrist.

That is the norm for all police forces the world over. If there was ever a candidate for a number one rape victim in a American prison shower stylee its the idiot officers that were in anyweay involved with this.

 

[Binky the Bomb]

"Land of the free, home of the brave." my arse. Those cops are guilty of her death, as much as the guys who shot her.
No training, no back-up, minimal support... thats just wrong.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Bet if it was just some random ugly dude, people would be "well the criminal deserved it".

 

[Ingafgrinn Macabre]

Bet if it was just some random ugly dude, people would be "well the criminal deserved it".

Not if the ugly random dude was just caught for cannabis posession.
Cannabis, even though it may be against the law in places, isn't really a crime worthy of a death penalty now isn't it?

 

[Golena]

The problem with things like drugs is that people assume it's not really a serious offense.

It's against the law and it's not like it's something that happens accidentally. When you buy it you know your breaking the law, you just don't care. It's the fact that people seem to think the law isn't a problem cos if they get caught they are just gonna get a fine or a slap on the wrist.

Yeah it's probably not worth a death sentance, but really how hard would it of been for her to not break the law and as such not end up in the situation. Police handled it like crap, but it's her own fault that she was the person being treated like crap. If it happened to a chav just walking about with a knife, would we feel the same way about it? After all he's just walking about with an illegal item, same deal right..

 

[tierk]

.......Police handled it like crap, but it's her own fault that she was the person being treated like crap......

Yea its all her own fault obviously. You get cuaght by the police for having a henry in your pocket and they force you to go and try and setup Pablo Escobar - yep i can i see how this all her fault.

.......If it happened to a chav just walking about with a knife, would we feel the same way about it? After all he's just walking about with an illegal item, same deal right..

Some people do post a load of shit on these forums to try and be the controversial one.

 

[tierk]

Bet if it was just some random ugly dude, people would be "well the criminal deserved it".

Regardless of who it was the below says it all.

"Land of the free, home of the brave." my arse. Those cops are guilty of her death, as much as the guys who shot her.
No training, no back-up, minimal support... thats just wrong.

QFT

 

[Ingafgrinn Macabre]

If it happened to a chav just walking about with a knife, would we feel the same way about it? After all he's just walking about with an illegal item, same deal right..

If you're gonna try and be the smart one, making analogies, make one that's actually analog to the original situation.

The only reason to walk around with a few joints in your pocket, is to smoke it. The only effect a joint has is that (unless you start driving and shit, but let's not take that in the equation since there's no reason to believe she would) you'll feel high, and all giddy and shit.

The only reason to walk around with a knife is to threaten others, and possibly stab someone.

Yes, getting high yourself, really is analog to trying to itch below someone else's muscles...

Get some bloody sense, fool.

 

[kivik]

Bet if it was just some random ugly dude, people would be "well the criminal deserved it".

Ugly dude, ugly bitch, what's the difference?

 

[old.Tohtori]

Not if the ugly random dude was just caught for cannabis posession.
Cannabis, even though it may be against the law in places, isn't really a crime worthy of a death penalty now isn't it?

You can't choose which is a crime and which isn't. If i say "oh but i don't find anything wrong in robbing a bank", it doesn't make it legal.

"Two bags of pot" can be anything from "some" to "backpack full" also.

 

[tierk]

You can't choose which is a crime and which isn't.......

I dont think anyone is choosing which is a crime and which isnt. More along the lines of not being able to make the comparsion between a rapist and say a person that lifts peoples underwear from clothes lines. It is the reason why they have different sentences for different crimes - granted that the sentence doesnt always fit the crime - nevertheless different.

Are you really going to try and say that a person smoking pot, in this day and age, is on the same level as a person carrying a knife? If so then either you are totally retarded - as Golena obviously is - are just being argumentative for the sake of upping your post count as there is no logic whatsoever in what you are implying.

....Two bags of pot" can be anything from "some" to "backpack full" also.

FYI a baggie of pot is between 3.5g - 28.5g of weed, which was about what i used to go through in a week (if the higher number - 28.5g - ofc as i used to do about a henry a day) give or take a day. Not the backpack you seem to think.

Source:

The officers observed a plastic baggie of marijuana, later found to be approximately 3.26 grams, and rolling papers on the front passenger floorboard. This evidence affirmatively linked appellant to the marijuana in question and established that the marijuana was a "usable quantity." The evidence was sufficient to support the trial court's finding that he engaged in delinquent conduct by unlawfully possessing a usable quantity of marijuana

 

[Lamp]

If you play with matches...etc

 

[tierk]

If you play with matches...etc

You will get sent - by the police - to and shot by the local Godfathers?!??!

 

[old.Tohtori]

Are you really going to try and say that a person smoking pot, in this day and age, is on the same level as a person carrying a knife? If so then either you are totally retarded - as Golena obviously is - are just being argumentative for the sake of upping your post count as there is no logic whatsoever in what you are implying.

Need to resort to some "semi-flaming" and calling me a postcountwhore or some such? Not to mention, near calling me retarded at same breath?

Go find a mirror.

Now on the point, i wasn't comparing crimes, i was commenting on the "it's just weed" thing and how many think that "well it's just weed". It's not, it's a crime.

Guy carrying a bag or a knife is a criminal, simple as that, and i don't differentiate between the two when considered towards a "is it legal" oint of view.

Not saying "she got what she deserved", but she is getting excess sympathy like "poor girl" and that is unwarranted.

The police f*cked up, sure, but it's not just some innocent of the street and if it was a hairy bucktoothed guy who looks like he just woke up from a 10 year coma, people wouldn't go "awww".

 

[tierk]

Need to resort to some "semi-flaming" and calling me a postcountwhore or some such....

Err you are postcountwhore though i couldnt put it so nicely as you just have.

Not to mention, near calling me retarded at same breath....

That was not aimed at you though i have to admit that i have called you far worse in other threads.

Now on the point, i wasn't comparing crimes, i was commenting on the "it's just weed" thing and how many think that "well it's just weed". It's not, it's a crime.....

Only one person on the thread made any reference to weed - Inga me thinks -and he wasnt denying it was a crime rather that it seemed a bit of a harsh turn out for such an offence.

Guy carrying a bag or a knife is a criminal, simple as that, and i don't differentiate between the two when considered towards a "is it legal" oint of view......

I dont think anyone was saying that getting caught with weed is legal but you being you and tbh i dont know if your really are the way that you express yourself on these forums but, as i have said on numerious threads, going by what you post on here, across a hoste of threads, you really have problem with posting stuff without being outspoken, controversial and at times down right idiotic.

Hence why i called you a postcountingwhore as i cannot see any other reason for it unless you really are this unpleasant miserable gutter rat. I hope that i am correct with the former describtion rather then the latter.

Not saying "she got what she deserved", but she is getting excess sympathy like "poor girl" and that is unwarranted......

To make my point about how unpleasant a person you can be please read the following quote from another recent thread and i hope you can see how much of a disturbing person you come across.

Wondering where the "sad" part is? 8 year old croaking or...?

LoL what a start to a thread waytogo.... and then

....It's no "special" sad that an 8 year old dies,
i was wondering what part of it was special sad to make it "saddest ever".

Sympathy is your middle name....

...The police f*cked up, sure, but it's not just some innocent of the street and if it was a hairy bucktoothed guy who looks like he just woke up from a 10 year coma, people wouldn't go "awww".

I think you are, as per usual, very wrong on all counts in your final statement. She was just some innocent off the street because if she was a hardened criminal she would have told the police to go fuck themselves when they threatened to bang her up for possession of weed if she didnt cooperate. She would have known that she would have probably walked if they had bothered to take her to court if she was a criminal.

I think that everyone would have had the same sympathetic outlook on the situation described in that article, regardless of it being a bucktoothed gimp or her, as the circumstances are pretty much fucked up regardless of who the victim was.

She was in effect sent to her death by police officers hoping to use a stupid naive woman for their own ends and now they will get away with it. I dont think the story would be any less or more sympathetic if it was a man rather then her.

 

[Huntingtons]

You can't choose which is a crime and which isn't. If i say "oh but i don't find anything wrong in robbing a bank", it doesn't make it legal.

"Two bags of pot" can be anything from "some" to "backpack full" also.

no it cannot, she got caught for possession, not intention to sell. theres a limit to which it goes from possession to intent to sell.

 

[Golena]

If you're gonna try and be the smart one, making analogies, make one that's actually analog to the original situation.

The only reason to walk around with a few joints in your pocket, is to smoke it. The only effect a joint has is that (unless you start driving and shit, but let's not take that in the equation since there's no reason to believe she would) you'll feel high, and all giddy and shit.

Ever wondered where most of the drugs are coming from, or how much gang wealth is accumulated by bringing it into the country?

I didn't say it was the same.. I said they were both crimes. Both commited with clear knowledge that a crime was being committed. I also said what happened to her wasn't right. BUT if your going to deliberately commit a crime, then when someone else does something against the law, as the police officers probably did, you can't really have much of a comeback against it.

You can't say it's ok for me to break the law and there's no problem with that. But you can't break the law cos it's clearly wrong.

You get cuaght by the police for having a henry in your pocket and they force you to go and try and setup Pablo Escobar - yep i can i see how this all her fault.

Ofc it's all her fault. She got caught breaking the law, then refused point blamk to cooperate with the police. Was what happened to her right, no. Could she easily of avoided being that person, Yup. From what I read all she had to do was tell them who else she knew that had it. Not that hard to do now really was it.

FYI a baggie of pot is between 3.5g - 28.5g of weed, which was about what i used to go through in a week

And here's the real reason you can't see the difference. Because you also decided that the law doesn't really apply to you when you feel like it. It's ok to break the law just a little bit, cos I haven't made a link between that and someone getting hurt. However if someone else breaks the law in a way that I disagree with, we should come down on them like a ton of bricks.
I'm guessing that you haven't got arrested for buying an illegal drug, and the police haven't been arrested for what they did. Where do we draw the line between when it's unnaceptable for someone to get "caught", and are you really the person to decide that line? When someone dies, loses a limb, gets cut? When does breaking the law and getting away with it become unnaceptable to you?

 

[old.Tohtori]

Ok so i didn't know that it was a technical term. Bag just sounded like a bag to me.

tierk:

Calling me names and such, fine enough, if you must. But don't expect me to answer those. Calling me a postcountwhore or some such, if you think so, guess it's your worry, i know i'm not.

I simply think, she's a criminal(in a "broke the law" sense) and that she's getting more sympathy for being who she is. If it was a chav, as people like to hate, people would be saying "one less chav! yei!". Not fully objective as is.

And like i said, the police f*cked up, sure.

About the other thread you just had to bring up, reading the whole thread explains that. As i've said, a death is a death to me, age and such don't effect me. Yes, maybe unsympathetic, so i am? Doesn't mean i'm someone who says "kill all 8 year olds and kill weedsmokers" as you so galantly try to make me look.

Making a bit of a big thing out of something that isn't. Not to mention, you didn't even bother answering what i wrote, just tore it down to tiny segments to more easily "prove your point" and went with a basic cop-out way.

I may be unsympathetic, but atleast i know how to discuss things without resorting to sandbox tactics.

 

[Golena]

She was in effect sent to her death by police officers hoping to use a stupid naive woman for their own ends and now they will get away with it.

So if a police officer dies next week in a drug deal are you going to have the same level of contempt for all the students who brought drugs off him "getting away with it", since them handing over their money is ultimately what lead to his death?

Yes, you can argue that it's not the same, but it's not as utterly different as you think.

 

[soze]

This thread should be a non starter she was caught with weed they should have offered her a deal to set up her Dealers and even then with full support. To force her to chage the game and ask for a gun is mad if someone has been buying pot off you for x years then asks for a gun it would make you edgy? Then to not give her any backup is shocking. She may have been a crim but this one falls as the police fault.

At least Police Officers are trainned and paid well for the risks i also doubt if it was one of thier own they would have lost eyeball so easily.

 

[tierk]

Ever wondered where most of the drugs are coming from, or how much gang wealth is accumulated by bringing it into the country?

There are broadly two channels for both trades, according to HM Customs and Excise. 'One involves bulk shipments to wholesalers, and the other "small-but-often" loads carried by couriers or mules,' says a recent Customs report

Also of interest....

Cannabis: This is cheaper; 100kg loads are imported, mainly from Morocco for around £1,200 per kilo, then sold on in multi-kilo units for a small mark-up of around £50 per kilo. A kilo can be bought for about £1,400. The retail price has remained static at around £15 for an eighth (3.5 grams), the heftiest mark-up in the chain

So not exactly the huge amounts of money that you are alluding to.

BUT if your going to deliberately commit a crime, then when someone else does something against the law, as the police officers probably did, you can't really have much of a comeback against it.....

Sorry but you are wrong. I dont expect and i dont think anyone else expects the Police to use criminal methods to fight crime. I am sorry but this is unacceptable. I am all for far harsher punishments for criminals but not for the Police to behave in exactly the same way as the criminals, otherwise whats the difference between them and the people they are supposed to be catching?

You can't say it's ok for me to break the law and there's no problem with that. But you can't break the law cos it's clearly wrong

Err sorry yes i can as the job of the polices job is to ctach criminals and not act like criminals themselves, otherwise what would be the point of having policemen? Their job is to enforce the law not break it themselves.

Ofc it's all her fault. She got caught breaking the law, then refused point blamk to cooperate with the police.....

Wrong again she agreed to cooperate with the police and it got her killed. We all know exactly what happend, read between the lines. Why would she refuse to cooperate on the drugs issue - i.e not give a couple of names and be done with it but instead go on a sting operation that would place her at much greater risk?

And here's the real reason you can't see the difference. Because you also decided that the law doesn't really apply to you when you feel like it.

Wrong again. If you big enough to do the crime then you are big enough to the time.

It's ok to break the law just a little bit, cos I haven't made a link between that and someone getting hurt. However if someone else breaks the law in a way that I disagree with, we should come down on them like a ton of bricks......

There is no breaking the law a little bit either you break it or you dont simple. However, i expect the law to be able to differentiate between petty crimes and big crimes.

I'm guessing that you haven't got arrested for buying an illegal drug

Wrong again. I have ben arrested in London for drugs - Cannabis + Ecstasy - long before it became the cakewalk it is today.

Where do we draw the line between when it's unnaceptable for someone to get "caught", and are you really the person to decide that line

Its acceptable for anyone when the get caught and for them to be punished according to the crime they have commited, no more no less. I might not agree with a lot of the punishment that is given in courts today - for example the cakewalk rapists get or people that are selling hard drugs like crack or heroin - but that doesnt mean that hold views remotely close to what you are suggesting i do.

When someone dies, loses a limb, gets cut? When does breaking the law and getting away with it become unnaceptable to you?

Someone selling weed on a council estate doesnt or being cuaght in possesion of personal weed doesnt cut it as a big criminal for me. Talk to me about the people that are commiting murder, rape, child abuse, selling hard drugs like heroin crack etc then yes those are for me unaccceptable. I dont think i hold views vastly different to the majority of the people you meet on a daily basis.

So if a police officer dies next week in a drug deal are you going to have the same level of contempt for all the students who brought drugs off him "getting away with it", since them handing over their money is ultimately what lead to his death

Was it a student that shot him? Invariably not. Was he killed in the line of duty? Invariably yes. So is there a difference ? Yes. One person goes out to buy a draw and ends up being sent to her death while another person goes on a operation that is directly linked to their job and dies.

 

[Dukat]

I agree with Tierk and soze and the others.

I really dont see how anyone can defend the police in this situation, they've been reckless and have, at the end of the day, been atleast partially responsible for this girl's death.

Being caught with some weed is a very, very minor crime. At the end of the day, its doing a minimal amount of harm to other people and even then its very indirect.

The fact that they made her do it in the first place is despicable, and there is no other way to put it. She was forced into a situation that she shouldnt have been in and then they obviously didnt support her enough. How can anyone defend that?

It doesnt matter who the person being put in this situation, some ugly dude or some girl, either way its bloody unfair and the sympathy is fully deserved.

The fact that the victim was a girl does make it worse to me, but I guess thats just because I'm old fashioned.

 

[old.Tohtori]

It doesnt matter who the person being put in this situation, some ugly dude or some girl, either way its bloody unfair and the sympathy is fully deserved.

The fact that the victim was a girl does make it worse to me, but I guess thats just because I'm old fashioned.

Exactly what i was getting at,m except that the "if it was a chav" point stands

I'm not defending the cops simply 'cause i don't agree with some points, or because i say "weed=crime".

I said this on another discussion that "these days you're either on this side or the other side and no middle ground. And that's bullcrap."

 

[Dukat]

Exactly what i was getting at,m except that the "if it was a chav" point stands

I dont agree really, I think that if it was a chav it would still be bloody wrong, the fact that its a girl only makes it worse, it doesnt change the fact that it was well out of order.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Yeah i know it's wrong and i would feel as i do be it chav, swedish, or joe montana. Just funny that i'm called names and such for saying "she's getting more sympathy for being a girl", but it's perfectly fine for someone to say "i think it's worse 'cause she's a girl"

 

[Ingafgrinn Macabre]

Yeah i know it's wrong and i would feel as i do be it chav, swedish, or joe montana. Just funny that i'm called names and such for saying "she's getting more sympathy for being a girl", but it's perfectly fine for someone to say "i think it's worse 'cause she's a girl"

There's a whole-lot of difference between a varying amount of sympathy, and saying "he/she deserved it", as you actually suggested other people would say in your first post.

Bet if it was just some random ugly dude, people would be "well the criminal deserved it".

Not if the ugly random dude was just caught for cannabis posession.
Cannabis, even though it may be against the law in places, isn't really a crime worthy of a death penalty now isn't it?

Also, noone ever said that a chav would receive the exact same amount of sympathy, but that's still a far cry from saying that a burberry wearing wanker would deserve death for carrying 2 spliffs worth of marihuana.

 

[Dukat]

Yeah i know it's wrong and i would feel as i do be it chav, swedish, or joe montana. Just funny that i'm called names and such for saying "she's getting more sympathy for being a girl", but it's perfectly fine for someone to say "i think it's worse 'cause she's a girl"

Have to watch how I say this so it comes over right and not flaimey (disclaimers in italics!)

The problem is - I think - is that it comes over - atleast to me - that you dont either dont understand why its slightly worse, or dont agree that its slightly worse.

The same with the 8 yr old child thing - I thought - it sounded in that thread that you couldnt see why it was especially sad that a child died.

I'm not saying that I think older people dying or male people dying isnt a shame I just feel its worse somehow.

I think that this is the way msot people think because women are not allowed in combat units at war due to the fact that its been tried(by the isrealis I believe?), and it fuxxed men up to see girls getting blown apart somehow more than when it was men.

 

[old.Tohtori]

There's a whole-lot of difference between a varying amount of sympathy, and saying "he/she deserved it", as you actually suggested other people would say in your first post.

Also, noone ever said that a chav would receive the exact same amount of sympathy, but that's still a far cry from saying that a burberry wearing wanker would deserve death for carrying 2 spliffs worth of marihuana.

To me, this is the difference i guess, anyone dying like that is dying in a similar level of compassion to me. Be it chav, rapist, girl, boy, aunt moomoo. I simply said that if it were some other criminal, like a guy who robbed a bank or some such, or yes, a chav, it would get LESS sympathy.

Noone said it 'cause i brought it up, but you can't honestly be saying that people wouldn't laugh at a chav getting killed or think that it's "alright". Just look at the forum and the anti-chav train rolling through.

That's why, i find it a bit hypocritical.

Have to watch how I say this so it comes over right and not flaimey (disclaimers in italics!)

The problem is - I think - is that it comes over - atleast to me - that you dont either dont understand why its slightly worse, or dont agree that its slightly worse.

The same with the 8 yr old child thing - I thought - it sounded in that thread that you couldnt see why it was especially sad that a child died.

I'm not saying that I think older people dying or male people dying isnt a shame I just feel its worse somehow.

I think that this is the way msot people think because women are not allowed in combat units at war due to the fact that its been tried(by the isrealis I believe?), and it fuxxed men up to see girls getting blown apart somehow more than when it was men.

Yeah, it's actually true that i don't find it worse. 8 year old, granny, man, woman, wife...all deaths are similar to me.

I get why, i can see where the "aww" factor comes from, but i don't feel it.