Best combo DPS for Infils.

[Ekydus]

As topic states it's time for some technical mombo-jumbo.

As my Infiltrator is nearing level 50 I'm going to need to kit him out for RvR. One of the things I need to know is:

What are the best combinations for DPS in Right hand and Left hand for an Infiltrator?

Thanks for any help.

 

[adari]

i used a guarded rapier and a long arc dirk, had 2 dirks before but that just didnt work

im mercfil btw

 

[belth]

Best DPS? Assuming you'll be swinging both weapons all the time, arca dirk & arca gladius, even at RR5, by the maths. In reality, I'll be going Guarded Rapier/Dirk. For low DW infil, 2x Long Dirk, but any serious investment in it should use atleast Guarded/Long Dirk.

 

[villageidiot]

bastard sword then swap to sabre and jamb


unless you one of those run-o-the-mill thrusters

 

[belth]

Atleast he has a stun and proper weapskill.

 

[villageidiot]

only thing thrust is good for is dragonfang (looks at his purge button)

with slash...

-You get the best anytime style in albion, with a high to hit bonus and low end usage.
-You do not need to evade to win a fight.
-choice of fastest and slowest weps in alb
-Slash also does better damage overall
-you look alot sexier with 2 jambs on your waist
-better pa damage, apparently

most of those took from inf class forum so dont whine at me if they wrong.

come on you cookie cutter thrust infs you can commence your flaming

 

[Ekydus]

Pin old boy. Come hither!

 

[Ghostly]

Originally posted by villageidiot
only thing thrust is good for is dragonfang (looks at his purge button)

with slash...

-You get the best anytime style in albion, with a high to hit bonus and low end usage.
-You do not need to evade to win a fight.
-choice of fastest and slowest weps in alb
-Slash also does better damage overall
-you look alot sexier with 2 jambs on your waist
-better pa damage, apparently

most of those took from inf class forum so dont whine at me if they wrong.

come on you cookie cutter thrust infs you can commence your flaming

Nevermind... I tried..... They won't listen.....

 

[villageidiot]

__________________
Ghostly lvl 50 slash-inf
tons of alts

woooohoooo \o/

finally some1 else who isnt afraid to be different

different in a good way that is, not different in a gimped way like 2h pallys/arms

 

[tempblade]

hmmmm, why r there still rather few slash infils, if theyr that much better ??

 

[villageidiot]

didnt say they are "that much" better

both are viable, just i prefer to be a bit different from all the cookie cutter infs.

 

[Hit ^_^]

ye i wish they gave me a /respec briton and i would go slash.

 

[Ghostly]

Originally posted by tempblade
hmmmm, why r there still rather few slash infils, if theyr that much better ??

Because people get all horny when they see Dragonfang Amethyst slash is really very underestimated as a style for infs, personally I wouldnt trade it for anything. The damage (over time) I do on SB's with amy slash really isn't that much lower as shadowzerks do on me with DF, and thats with mids holding strength relics. Haven't done much RvR after we got relics back (leveling some guildies ) but I imagine I'll outdamage them now, let alone after 1.62.... Also I don't seem to be doing much worse against skalds and warriors then thrust specced infs. Anyway, it all comes down to personal preference I guess.

 

[zlair]

roll me over and fuck me sideways ...

.. im using Long Dirks on both hands


(well, i think it looks cooler with long daggers instead of a sword - infils shouldnt wear swords, hence we r not ninjas )

 

[stinkie]

Eky,

It really depends on you DW skill. Virtual haste works like this.

1)When you hit with both weapons your SPD is the average of the 2 weapons.
2)When you style and hit with 1 weapon it is always the main hand at main hand speed.
3)When you unstyle and hit with 1 weapon you hve a 50/50 chance of hitting main or off hand with a SPD of the weapon you hit with.

Basicaly 1) is very nice with 1 slow 1 fast wepaon. 2) Is better with 2 fast weapons. 3) Is better with 2 fast weapons.

Theres a few different calculations about trying to work out the % to hit with both weps. Heres the most popular

[25% + (Dual Wield Skill x .5)% + (Character Level x .25%)]

So for me thats:

(25% + (33skill x 0.5%) + (50level x 0.25%)) + 6%DR2

So a total of 60% giving me a good chance of getting the virtual haste so worth it imo.

IMO if you havent got greater than a 40%ish chance to duel hit the drawbacks would out weigh the benefits of virtual haste

 

[rure_]

Originally posted by adari
i used a guarded rapier and a long arc dirk, had 2 dirks before but that just didnt work

im mercfil btw

aww, fcuk why didnt you tell me earlier? I've been using 2 dirks all the time.

anyhow, here is a good thread about the topic:

http://vnboards.ign.com/message.asp?topic=52776146&replies=22

 

[Ekydus]

Well to you asking and moaning about whether or not I should have been slash rather than thrust you are totally missing the point. I am asking about DPS to help me get my choice right.

I have a 50 Paladin and well, TBH, I am bored of the Amethyst style and all that comes with slash in general. I am a thrust Infiltrator and i'm not going to change any time soon. If I want a slash Infiltrator, well then I'll roll a Briton and make one.

Hopefully my planned spec will help you help me with my problem.

50 Thrust.
44 Critical Strike.
35 Stealth.
35 Envenom.
18 Duel Wield. [Any Auto-Train points will be spent here.]

Respec at RR5 or RR6 to:

50 Thrust.
44 Critical Strike.
34 Stealth.
34 Envenom.
22 Duel Wield.

Thanks for any help and advice. (Calculations which I can understand also appreciated. - Not one for the technical mumbo-jumbo with Infiltrators...yet.)

 

[villageidiot]

Originally posted by Ekydus
Well to you asking and moaning about whether or not I should have been slash rather than thrust you are totally missing the point. I am asking about DPS to help me get my choice right.

i never asked or moaned for you to go slash, id rather you didnt tbh i like being a little bit different

but my personal preference for thrust is slow for pa (be that guarded rapier or bastard sword) with a fast offhand(ld/jamb) swapping to another slow wep for 3rd poison (sabre/guarded rapier)

but i also carry a 4th fast wep just in case the urge takes me to use a fast wep for 4th.

i cant seem to get used to backing up styles with inf cos they attack quite fast, and well sometimes i dont hit garrote/amy slash in time after hamstring, and so i hit hamstring for piss all damage imperfectly. whereas with jambs (or ld) its possible to evade garrote then still pull off hamstring chain.

if you understand all those gobble-di-gook calculations above, do whatever he was saying to do, altho i dont have a clue what he meant tbh.

otherwise i think its down to personal choice and the situation.

 

[adari]

Originally posted by rure_
aww, fcuk why didnt you tell me earlier? I've been using 2 dirks all the time.

anyhow, here is a good thread about the topic:

http://vnboards.ign.com/message.asp?topic=52776146&replies=22

lol

use the GR mate and the dirk is my right hand, i think, not the one with the same sc stats as the GR

 

[Silenzio]

Originally posted by Ekydus


Hopefully my planned spec will help you help me with my problem.

50 Thrust.
44 Critical Strike.
35 Stealth.
35 Envenom.
18 Duel Wield. [Any Auto-Train points will be spent here.]

That was exactly my spec when i reached 50

autotrain till 48...

advices?
allways max thrust n cs till 44... than thrust n use the rest for envenom n some dw...

i've allways left dw behind... doest rlly care xept for obscure (lvl 18)

with maxed weap skill n cs capped u deal good damage fast with no quickness malus... relay on harmsting chain as much as u can...

mmm what else mmm aye... ur most important poison i debuf not only in rvr... in pve it will make the difference... from n easy n hard fight...

if u can afford us full sc'ed gear... is n other world =)


infil is fast... faster than a mob... ;P (i mean hitting)

 

[Ekydus]

Yeah, I've got a 43 Necromancer ATM. 2 Plat saved up and atleast another 3 Plat coming my way. Then to add to this I've got the money inbetween 43-50 and lots of cash farming too.

So SC is pretty much a safe bet for me.

 

[belth]

Don't use a slow weapon to PA, if you use 2 fast weapons normally...

Straight from Wyrd's Crazy Style Spreadsheet Thingie.

5. How do the Assassination styles work?

Assassination styles (BS, BS2, PA) work differently than normal styles. Since these styles can only be used as an opener from stealth, these styles have had the DPS portion coded out and just add a static damage value. This allows for assassins to use fast weapons and still hit hard with their assassination styles. Furthermore, since the assassination styles add a static damage amount, faster weapons actually allow for a higher DPS than slower weapons in this case. Thus, one can debate the benefits of a slow assassination weapon versus a fast one.

Perforate Artery Cap = 75 + Critical Strike Spec * 9 + Nonstyle Cap

Backstab II Cap = 45 + Critical Strike Spec * 6 + Nonstyle Cap

Backstab I Cap = ~5 + Critical Strike Spec * 14 / 3 + Nonstyle Cap

Your PA cap will be very little higher with a Guarded Rapier than a Long Dirk, if you choose to use 2x Long Dirks. The longer delay between PA & CD isn't worth the ~20 points more damage on PA, atleast not on a (observant) caster. Slightly bigger numbers are nice & all that, but the 6s stun is more important.

 

[belth]

Originally posted by Silenzio

advices?
allways max thrust n cs till 44... than thrust n use the rest for envenom n some dw...

i've allways left dw behind... doest rlly care xept for obscure (lvl 18)

with maxed weap skill n cs capped u deal good damage fast with no quickness malus... relay on harmsting chain as much as u can...

Have to disagree here some... If you know your final template, get your DW to it's final value as soon as possible, it'll only help you on the long run plus you don't have to worry about it anymore. Same with envenom, get it to 22 fast for the 1st Str/Con debuff, as it makes a big difference when soloing. Only thing CS is good in PvE is the Hamstring chain really

 

[Silenzio]

Originally posted by belth
Have to disagree here some... If you know your final template, get your DW to it's final value as soon as possible, it'll only help you on the long run plus you don't have to worry about it anymore. Same with envenom, get it to 22 fast for the 1st Str/Con debuff, as it makes a big difference when soloing. Only thing CS is good in PvE is the Hamstring chain really

we talking bout a Stelth Autotrain template =)

not a normal one...

u cant rely on stelth for pa n bkstab... (u still can perform em but is harder n sometimes a sucide)

so haveing maxed weap skill n maxed cs (cap) give u better damage n chances to hit...

cs style r much better than dw =)
even garrote achilles... n thrust me... harmsting chain is more than good... more n more=)

envenom help =) rlly but take in mind that this char is autotraining stelth... so is plenti ov skill point

to max thust cs n have env kinda hig =)

btw that was just my experience...

lvl an autotrain inf allways solo from 0 to 46 n been allways able
to fight orange/red (yes with a good attention on my gear)

at 46 was bit bored ov soloing n went to the "group ground"

bb


p.s.
swing freq is related on ur lvl too not only dw spec

 

[villageidiot]

Originally posted by belth
Don't use a slow weapon to PA, if you use 2 fast weapons normally...

Straight from Wyrd's Crazy Style Spreadsheet Thingie.



Your PA cap will be very little higher with a Guarded Rapier than a Long Dirk, if you choose to use 2x Long Dirks. The longer delay between PA & CD isn't worth the ~20 points more damage on PA, atleast not on a (observant) caster. Slightly bigger numbers are nice & all that, but the 6s stun is more important.

FFS you telling me i paid 4 plat for mp bastard sword for nothing!

but then again my biggest concern in using b sword for my PAs was the delay between pa and cd, it seems like forever, plenty of time to get your ass slammed or whatever

 

[villageidiot]

actually saying that the dps isnt taken into account. wouldnt that mean that low lvl weps would hit for same as lvl 51 gear?

 

[Pin]

Well, lots of guff in the thread so far.

Bottomline is if you are Thrust with more than ~20 total DW (including items and RR) then use a 3.7spd Gladius + 2.2spd Dirk, or 3.5spd Guarded Rapier + 2.2spd Dirk. Long Dirks suck.

If you are Slash, use a 4.1spd Bastard Sword and a 2.3spd Dagger (or 2.6spd Jambiya if you must).


I would particularly point out that Wyrd is wrong/misleading in his section on assassination styles:

Originally posted by belth
Don't use a slow weapon to PA, if you use 2 fast weapons normally...

Straight from Wyrd's Crazy Style Spreadsheet Thingie.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

5. How do the Assassination styles work?

Assassination styles (BS, BS2, PA) work differently than normal styles. Since these styles can only be used as an opener from stealth, these styles have had the DPS portion coded out and just add a static damage value. This allows for assassins to use fast weapons and still hit hard with their assassination styles. Furthermore, since the assassination styles add a static damage amount, faster weapons actually allow for a higher DPS than slower weapons in this case. Thus, one can debate the benefits of a slow assassination weapon versus a fast one.

Perforate Artery Cap = 75 + Critical Strike Spec * 9 + Nonstyle Cap

Backstab II Cap = 45 + Critical Strike Spec * 6 + Nonstyle Cap

Backstab I Cap = ~5 + Critical Strike Spec * 14 / 3 + Nonstyle Cap

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Your PA cap will be very little higher with a Guarded Rapier than a Long Dirk, if you choose to use 2x Long Dirks. The longer delay between PA & CD isn't worth the ~20 points more damage on PA, atleast not on a (observant) caster. Slightly bigger numbers are nice & all that, but the 6s stun is more important.

While it is true that PA CAP will not be substantially higher with a 4.1spd weapon than with a 2.2spd weapon, the actual damage that you do is very different.

Style bonus damage for PA and BS follow exactly the same growth-rate rules as for other styles, but only differ with respect to the cap applied.

A slow weapon gives a MUCH bigger PA. Don't test it on a grey mob, test it on something tough.


(and it's a 7s stun on CD)

 

[Silenzio]

no =)

is the spd that dotest get counted =)

n using heavy weapon for pa is good

u only need a macro to swith on fastew weap...

ie..

gddr PA ...

long dirk K.. next style...

(well again this ir related on what u r fighting )

use gdd+ ld oinly if u r full buffed n have more than 250 qui

otherwise u will surely deal more damage... but too slow to get full advantage ov it...

inf must be fast =)

 

[villageidiot]

ah cool pin, get it now

 

[rure_]

Originally posted by Pin
Well, lots of guff in the thread so far.

Bottomline is if you are Thrust with more than ~20 total DW (including items and RR) then use a 3.7spd Gladius + 2.2spd Dirk, or 3.5spd Guarded Rapier + 2.2spd Dirk. Long Dirks suck.

Adari, ehm.