Benefits crackdown, your opinions?

[Access Denied]

So I've read a whole bunch of articles about that Government plans to cut benefits and such. I want to hear your opinions, hear the reasoning behind those opinions. I'll start.

I agree that something needs to be done. The fact that people are better off not working is arse-backwards. Here's how it affects me. One of the ideas they're bouncing around in Westminster is to scrap Tax Credits and replace it With Negative Income tax where, if I'm reading it right, instead of getting Tax Credits they would just pay less tax. All well and good except for those who don't pay tax or those that don't pay ENOUGH tax to make that financially feasable. Example:

I worked full time for Morrisons before we moved out of London. They wouldn't give me a transfer so I was forced to quit. Lindsay managed to get a transfer to another area with her company. After 6 months down here looking for a job I was offered a part time job at Tesco, 16 hours a week. Having no job, no qualifications and no previous luck finding a job I took the offer. Lindsay had just fallen pregnant when I got this job and of course she eventually went on Maternity.

After her maternity finished the company Lindsay worked for wouldn't give her the hours she required to work around Abi and I so she was forced to leave. Because we want to raise Abi ourselves until she goes to school and not rely on a babysitter she set up her own business, the capital for which has come out my meagre wages. We get Tax credits, a little housing benefit and fuck all else and we struggle. She doesn't smoke and I quit, neither of us drink, we don't watch TV so don't pay for a TV license or Sky and yet despite cutting down on everything we are quite often left with less than £20 a week to spend on food, nappies and wipes.

Now here's the thing, neither Lindsay's company nor I earn enough to pay tax and yet Lindsay hasn't been out of tax paying work since she was 18 and I've worked pretty consistantly since I was 17 so we've paid into the system. If they scrap tax credits we'll be worse off than we are now. I hear people saying "Well get a full time job!" Not that easy. Tesco aren't offering full time for basic staff and yet I've been there long enough that going elsewhere, where I'd start on minimum wage, I'd only be a couple of hundred quid a month better off than I am now, which wouldn't help if they scrap tax Credits.

Well that turned into a bit of a rant....sorry =/

 

[old.Tohtori]

In some countries, benefits are calculated by "minimum required" to live, pay rent etc.

If that is higher then minimum wage, i think minimum wage is the thing to look at, not benefit cuts.

Cut too much benefits and you'll get starving people who just don't have a job opportunity. In essence; you cut benefits for slackers, you cut it for honest people too.

Sure, people who stay on benefits even if they have a possibillity to work is a bit iffy, but i also believe that everyone who has worked has the right to benefits. Afterall you've paid taxes too, and you pay a lot.

 

[Ch3tan]

Wait to see what actually happens. I know it's shitty for a lot of people, but we can't just go on with a benefits black hole artificially supporting people.

I have to ask, when you moved out of London, why did you move knowing you had no guarantee of work? Why quit a job, to move and have no job? Why then have a baby when you are struggling to support yourselves?

I don't mean any of this personally against you, so don't take it the wrong way, but why should my tax money go towards bailing you out when you've made choices that have left you in this position?

 

[old.Tohtori]

Ch3t, i think one reasonable way to ensure that honest peeps don't get f*cked is to connect benefits to the amount of work you've done. Kinda like pensions are, but in case of work lack.

 

[Raven]

Not half as tough as they should be.

 

[megadave]

Pretty shitty situation. Why doesn't your missus stay at her job if it's fulltime, then you can quit yours and look after the kid?

 

[Zenith.UK]

My household is one of those that Ian Duncan Smith is listening to and taking into account.

I work fulltime at a job that occasionally has some overtime. My salary is approx. 75% of the national average wage.
My wife stays at home looking after our two smallest ones.
Middle one starts fulltime school in September.

We get child's tax credits because of our relatively low household income.
If my wife took on a full time job, we would have to put youngest one in day nursery, and the tax credits would be drastically reduced. Taking into account the increase in income, but the cost of childcare, we would come out £20 a month better off (£5 per week). We would get 2 coffees a week extra... hardly an incentive to get back to work.

Now if the Govt's proposed ideas mean a proportional tailing off of benefits instead of a sharp cutoff, then that would certainly help in our particular situation.

 

[Jeros]

Wrong thread, but ill edit the post to say:

As long as it does not harm the most in need then things should work.

We need a better system than the one where my single mother friend was pretty much forced to be on benefits as when she got a job they took away more benefit than what she was earning.

 

[Gwadien]

dr;tl


The government pays more money trying to catch benefit frauds than they actually give out in benefits.

 

[Corran]

dr;tl


The government pays more money trying to catch benefit frauds than they actually give out in benefits.

Not necessarily.. think it more a case of spending more then they recover.
When I worked in the council fraud team there was just 2 investigators (sometimes with an additional admin person). A single fraud case could detect fraud that was the equivalent of our combined yearly salaries. Problem was that it is deemed acceptable for them to pay it back at a rate of £2 a week even if you detected massive fraud ... have to rely on proceeds of crime act hopefully recovering the money but more often then not you dont even go that way as to make a POCA claim takes alot of workhours and there very few people outside the police that could do it. Infact for the entire strathclyde and local areas there was only 1 qualified person oO

 

[Ch3tan]

dr;tl


The government pays more money trying to catch benefit frauds than they actually give out in benefits.

A lovely throw away comment given without any proof to back it up, helpful.

And yes, Corran, what the courts deem as suitable punishment for those who defraud the system is ridiculous.

 

[Raven]

My post further up probably sounds harsher than it was meant to. You are clearly working and looking for further work so you should be supported, I have absolutely no problem with that. However. nobody can ignore the fact that hundreds of thousands of people claim benefits because they would rather do that than an honest days work, these people should be the ones that get nothing, or at least the bare minimum to cover food and shelter, which should not be paid in cash but vouchers or even something similar to meals on wheels. Paying housing benefit into the claimers bank account is utterly stupid, it should be paid directly to the landlord or the local council to cover the housing, food should be delivered weekly and should be basic healthy meals.

 

[Ezteq]

I really don't care, people have been screwing over the benefits system for so long now and getting away with it, like nice normal people that I know just come out with stuff they do to get extra help, its like omg oooook so this is just normal practice now then is it?

 

[Turamber]

Perhaps make a representation to your MP with your personal situation? I would hope that the Coalition Government would research the impact of these changes properly before bringing them in.

As you say, though, something needs to be done. Last year I came across an individual who moves from private property to private property, receives her backdated housing benefit and then moves out pocketing the benefit and paying nothing to the landlord.

The person in question also frequently applies for "emergency loans" from the DSS and then doesn't pay them back, has never worked since leaving school and has a bunch of children she also gets paid benefits for.

The UK's benefit system is something we should be proud of, but it has led to a generation of people who do not work, do not wish to work and are parasites on society. Something needs to be done, but the trick is not making things worse for the truly disadvantaged.

 

[soze]

I know girls that have got pregnant and had a kid so they can get a free place and do not have to work. While we have people like that can the system ever be fixed? As any punishment given to these type of parents will just hurt the kids.

It's not fair on the people who do not abuse the system but i wanted to see a ration book system in place. Give everyone who gets benefits for kids a book of vouchers rather than cash. Childcare, Food ect could get purchased that way. So while its embarrassing it might actually help some kids.

 

[Olgaline]

lol.

having a child for welfare benefits would be very short sided,
in the long run, they are far more expensive.

I would not recommend anyone to do that.

 

[Access Denied]

Wait to see what actually happens. I know it's shitty for a lot of people, but we can't just go on with a benefits black hole artificially supporting people.

I have to ask, when you moved out of London, why did you move knowing you had no guarantee of work? Why quit a job, to move and have no job? Why then have a baby when you are struggling to support yourselves?

I don't mean any of this personally against you, so don't take it the wrong way, but why should my tax money go towards bailing you out when you've made choices that have left you in this position?

When we were living in London, we were living with my mum. We knew we couldn't afford a place in London and we chose a place we could afford on Lindsay's wages. We weren't on benefits when we moved down here. As for having a baby, we were told there would next to no chance of having one without IVF so getting pregnant was a big surprise. I'm not saying your taxes should bail us out. If we hadn't paid into the system for years then I would agree with you but we did and we fell that we've earned the right to get help when we need it.

Pretty shitty situation. Why doesn't your missus stay at her job if it's fulltime, then you can quit yours and look after the kid?

We did discuss this but in the end I admitted my failing that I wasn't confident enough to be the full time parent, especially when Abi was a newborn.

I'll also add that Lindsay's business is starting to pick up and that I'm currently waiting to begin training for a promotion at work which will hopefully lead to full time. I'm also going to be doing my G.C.S.E's so I can apply for the Police and Fire Service.

My main point is that everyone on Benefits gets tarred with the same brush. There are feckless layabouts who don't want to work and play the system. However you'll find that most people don't want to rely on benefits and Lindsay and I hope that before too long we'll be able to support outselves and Abi without relying on them.

 

[Lollie]

tbh i dont understand why they are touching the like of working tax credit, the only way you can claim it is if your working. Its the lazy c*nts on jobseekers allowance for the last 10 years who need to be looked at

 

[soze]

lol.

having a child for welfare benefits would be very short sided,
in the long run, they are far more expensive.

I would not recommend anyone to do that.

Yes if you look after it properly and actually care about its welfare which not everyone does. I know of at least 3 people getting pregnant to get a Council Flat.

 

[Olgaline]

wich is why, sometimes one wonders

 

[Ch3tan]

tbh i dont understand why they are touching the like of working tax credit, the only way you can claim it is if your working. Its the lazy c*nts on jobseekers allowance for the last 10 years who need to be looked at

As has been said on these forums very very often, Job seekers is pittance, it's the other benefits that are the money sink. Housing (+ the council tax breaks), disability, and the extra benefits you get for being a single parent.

 

[Ch3tan]

When we were living in London, we were living with my mum. We knew we couldn't afford a place in London and we chose a place we could afford on Lindsay's wages. We weren't on benefits when we moved down here. As for having a baby, we were told there would next to no chance of having one without IVF so getting pregnant was a big surprise. I'm not saying your taxes should bail us out. If we hadn't paid into the system for years then I would agree with you but we did and we fell that we've earned the right to get help when we need it.



We did discuss this but in the end I admitted my failing that I wasn't confident enough to be the full time parent, especially when Abi was a newborn.

I'll also add that Lindsay's business is starting to pick up and that I'm currently waiting to begin training for a promotion at work which will hopefully lead to full time. I'm also going to be doing my G.C.S.E's so I can apply for the Police and Fire Service.

My main point is that everyone on Benefits gets tarred with the same brush. There are feckless layabouts who don't want to work and play the system. However you'll find that most people don't want to rely on benefits and Lindsay and I hope that before too long we'll be able to support outselves and Abi without relying on them.

I'm still not clear on this? Were you forced to move out of your parents house? Or was it that you simply wanted your own place, if it was, then you moved out and took the risk of living on only one income. I think that was a very very short sighted decision. This is my problem with the benefits system, people take risks because we have this safety net in place.

 

[old.Whoodoo]

Theres so many sides to the tales about benefits, way too many to count, but these days there seem to be those who want to work but are shafted by the system for doing so, and those who dont want to work because the system pays too well.

Where I currently live (yes its council) I see daily the asbo asshats who do feck all every day, apart from sign on every 2 weeks for their handout, its this that should be stopped IMO, take away their cash and give them food and clothing tokens that are only redeemable in supermarkets like Tescos who are less likely to fiddle the system that your corner shop does. Sadly we pay for this lot in 2 ways, one by giving them free cash for doing bugger all and also by employing DSS workers and council emplpoyees who are supposed to keep tabs on them, but dont until its too late, and they declare bankrupt, go to court and get away scott free. Double boner or what?

Then the other group, I do earn too much for benefits but have a sister in a similar vein to the OP. Shes single (wasnt until her hubby slipped his chipolata into one of her freinds), and was working full time. BUT working it out, the decrease in monies she got in terms of both pay and benefits, meant that reducing her hours to 26 a week from 40, meant she was about 25% better off, having her rent, child minding and other things paid for.

However, with the new system, she says shes even more shafted, as her tax credits are going to drop by about £50-60 a month. While this doesnt seem like much to most, earning £640 a month its huge! Also going back to full time, she knows full well she will be worse off again as they reduce her benefits, but not in line with her earnings.

So, the CONDEM govt are going to shaft those its easiest to, the workers, those honest enough to declare it, rather than clamping down on the lazy bums we all work hard to pay to sit at home smokin weed and vandalising the envoriment. This seems to be the way they are going, screwing anyone honest, and letting the criminals do wtf they want.

Ya damned if ya do, and double damned if ya dont!
​

 

[old.Whoodoo]

Oh I forogt to mention, as my sister got a pay raise (1.2%) in April, they have just told her she owes £586 and they want it back within 6 months... even though she informed them the second she got it...their over sight.

It doesnt pay to be honest does it.

 

[Olgaline]

here's a question for you lot,
what exactly do think would happen to tho's so called lazy fucks
who cba to work, if you take the benifits away..


think about it..

 

[old.Tohtori]

here's a question for you lot,
what exactly do think would happen to tho's so called lazy fucks
who cba to work, if you take the benifits away..


think about it..

Massive homeless epidemic, alot fo starvation deaths, most likely a few pandemics since disease would run rampart on the streets of homeless?

About that sort of thing?

 

[megadave]

Big increase in crime too

 

[Olgaline]

well dont know about that,
but i would bet that in the long run, it would be more expensive,
and cause more of a nusesnce to very people who call them "lazy fucks"
than what we have today,

 

[Olgaline]

Oh I forogt to mention, as my sister got a pay raise (1.2%) in April, they have just told her she owes £586 and they want it back within 6 months... even though she informed them the second she got it...their over sight.

It doesnt pay to be honest does it.

well I dont know how it is in the UK,
but here in DK, it's up to you to insure that what you get is correct,
it's also your own responcibility to inform of any chances, AND it's also your
responcibility to insure that you have the means to refund any such difference.


We receive soemthing called "fri plads" for our kids in Kindergarten,
but they messed up the %, so that the % given was far higher than we were
aplicable for, we informed them of this, and yet, nothing happend, however,
we made damned sure to put the difference aside each mounth, since we knew, that sooner or later, they'd bloody get it..it took roughly 2 years, and
20.000 Dkr later for then to finally get it, but as soon as they did, i had the exact amount down to the penny ready for transfer...

Now,
Here's what really pissed me right off!
This was there damn fault, we tried again, and again, to make them aware of the mistake, but when they finally realise it.They take it on to them selves to treat me like a criminal and even threaten me.

 

[Thorwyn]

By "punishing" those who really don´t want to work, you´re simultaneously punishing those who DO want to work and just can´t because they don´t have the required flexibility, health, or who are just too old. If you´re 35+ of age and lose your job, there´s almost zero chance to get hired again. I know someone who wrote serveral *hundreds* of job applications, has a double qualification and a good job record... until she got ill (cancer), lost her job and that was that.

It´s a common phenomenon that people are bashing those poor suckers that are already on the floor. "How can they dare to abuse the system ZOMG! Do something against that!" etc. But the truth is: those people are not the problem. Even if it´s hundreds of thousands (as someone estimated) of them (which I really doubt) who don´t *want* to work. The system is usually more than capable of dealing with all the leeches. If they´re happy with what they got... fook... let them! You won´t change them anyways, regardless of what you do. You can reduce the dole, which will result in an increased crime rate and even less care for the weakest of them all: the children. You can force them to work and you´ll see a flood of medical attestations. And btw, there are only so many parks you can clean. Work for everybody is and always was conservative romanticism.
But please don´t stigmatize everyone who is in this situation and never forget the reason WHY so many people are where they are now.

The chairman of "Deutsche Bank" (Ronnie Ackermann) earned 14 Million Euros in 2009. For what? How on earth can anyone justify that much for the work of ONE single man? How can we point our fingers at people who´re living from 400 Euros / month? Don´t get me wrong: if someone is willing to pay him that much, I couldn´t care less, I don´t envy him. But on the other hand, it´s those guys who are often responsible for the social decline of many people. The amount of anti-social behaviour amongst the wealthy people is - by far - worse and more damaging for the entire system than those people who´re on the dole.