Base Camping

[adams901]

We all know base camping can be a pain in the arse, currently the only camping rule in effect is "don't camp repair points in the enemy uncapturable base. This rule works fine all the time only 1 tank is in the base, as soon as the rest of the team arrive the game takes a turn for the worse.

We have 3 options here.
1) Leave things the way they are and laugh at the poor team being raped.
2) Change the rules to allow only soldiers on foot to enter the enemy uncapturable base.
3) No armoured land vehicles in the enemy uncapturable base

I don't really agree with the rule of not allowing anyone into the base because if you are shot down over it then obviously you have to parachute into it, aircraft in my opinion should be allowed to fly over and attack these bases, specially as DC now has guided missiles placed in them (you need some defence against the guy sitting in the guided missiles spamming the map, and it would be stupid if he was allowed to do this without fear from attack).

Your thoughts and suggestions are welcomed.

 

[throdgrain]

I think its arse. If you've already captured all the other bases on the map. what are you supposed to do ? Stand about and defend ?
Buggerthat, if all other flags are capped, go in and slaughter the bad guys
And while I think, on one of the Japanese maps (Iwo Jima? ) I like to go up the left side of the map in a jeep as an allie, then kill all the plane campers in the other base, and blow thier planes. So I cant do that now?

 

[Cdr]

heh

Well, I've made my feelings known about base camping before. But, I do think the 2nd option is a good one.

It takes no skill at all to sit and kill people as they spawn in - it does however take skill to defend captured bases. And don't give me 'oh if this was real war we'd not stop' or 'I bet rommel didnt stop and think we cant go in there' because its NOT REAL. It's a piece of entertainment, and is meant to be fun, not extremely boring because you can't actually do anything before you die where you just spawned in.

Anyways, before I go on a rant, I'll stop and say Vote Number 2!

 

[adams901]

didnt say we can't do it, just looking for feedback from the "community" .

I agree it is fun to run over the plane campers, it only gets questionable when 8 tanks and anything else the enemy can get their hands on rolls into your base and kills you as soon as you spawn.

spawn, die, spawn, die, spawn, die (fuck this im off to another server).

At the end of the day it is down to you guys.

I personally find it more fun to sit outside enemy bases and wait for them to come rolling past, that way they dont get pissed off and they can spawn and stay alive for more than 1 second, plus you still get to kill them and there is a little bit of skill involved...

We could have an option 3 (No armoured vehicles in the enemy uncapturable base) that way you still get to run the plane campers over in your jeep.

 

[bids]

I'd go with option 3 - assume this would still allow you to nick enemy tanks as long as you get out of their base ASAP.

I also like my option 4 - the above plus remove all planes from all maps

(I was playing on an EA public last night, and on El Al a dickhead was sitting on a repair pad in a Tiger in the allied base. I gave him my traditional abuse about basecamping retards, and his response was '....part of the game mate' ! - amazing how some people think).

 

[Cdr]

Okay, changing the bloody options - I now would like to re-cast my vote to Option 3

And option 4 is crap

 

[xane]

Base Camping is not a problem unless the team balance is out of whack, too many times have I seen my side getting raped in the one base and noticed it's mainly because we have 5-10 less players too.

When sides are balanced then it isn't a real problem, as the base campers are simply leaving other flags unguarded so they're easier to capture.

A 10-second invulverability might be nice, anyway.

My suggestion would be either:

(a) introduce a "zone of death" around the base that operates like the "leaving the battlefield" action, i.e. you get a countdown followed by intermittant injury, and/or damage to the vehicle, this may be suspended for aircraft/parachutes, if the rule applies to vehicle damage then it would not apply to infantry or unoccupied vehicles.

(b) put AI operated "super-guns" (or just regular guns with super-accuracy), either MGs, ATs or AAs, around the base that can also aim inwards, they can be knocked out but spawn quickly and target any enemy in a general zone.

 

[xane]

Worth noting one of my favourite tasks is on El Alamein as a Scout manning the AA guns in the Allied base, a clock up a nice total shooting enemy planes and then sniping the pilot as he drifts down. Most of the kills are from taking out base campers.

 

[xane]

Originally posted by bids
(I was playing on an EA public last night, and on El Al a dickhead was sitting on a repair pad in a Tiger in the allied base.

Did the repair pad work ? It should not have, I thought they fixed that.

BTW you can just about target the repair pad from one of the AA guns

 

[Cdr]

Originally posted by xane
Did the repair pad work ? It should not have, I thought they fixed that.

BTW you can just about target the repair pad from one of the AA guns

Na, repair pads still work, its the hangers they changed

 

[adams901]

Originally posted by xane
When sides are balanced then it isn't a real problem, as the base campers are simply leaving other flags unguarded so they're easier to capture.

Most of the time, in heavy base camping sessions this is not possible.

Last night while on a server (not game.net) the enemy surrounded the base and pounded it non-stop with tanks, det packs, choppers etc.

Everytime someone spawned they died almost immediatly (some managed to walk 2 steps). In situations like this it is impossible to get out of the base to capture a flag, needless to say the losing team ended up with 3 people on, then the winning team left because they didnt have anyone to kill.

 

[xane]

Originally posted by adams901
Last night while on a server (not game.net) the enemy surrounded the base and pounded it non-stop with tanks, det packs, choppers etc.

I assume this was DC ?

In general, there are very few original BF1942 maps that, given even sides, can be effectively base camped for very long. As soon as something goes out of alignment then it can happen, which is more obvious in mods like DC which are still really going through a "balancing" period.

I have repeatedly been on very exciting games where one side is cornered into being base camped but managed to break out and turn the game around, in particular on maps like Stalingrad and Berlin. One obvious map where it still is a problem is Kursk, mainly due to the lack of AA guns in the bases, and on Kharkov there is still too much opportunity to pound the base using artillery.

 

[throdgrain]

On consideration of all the facts and posts made here.




Bollocks leave it as it is

 

[adams901]

most of my reasoning has been DC orientated, this is only due to the fact the vanilla servers only seem to be busy on Tuesday nights. Guess we could always leave the standard BF servers as they are and implement the option 3 rule for DC (until the game is finished and well balanced).

 

[bunn]

Base camping is banned on the servers I admin, whether that's on foot or by tank (planes are okay, choppers aren't). If someone has to bail out over the base they're watched to make sure they leave immediately. Those who don't are asked to leave the base, if they ignore the request they're kicked.

Spawn camping is weak and lame. If you have all the bases you let the enemy attack you, or are you to frightened of that? It seems sportsmanship has left the internet gaming world and it ruins the fun for everyone else who's being camped on.

If you want to camp fine, go ahead, but the proper players, the ones with honour are laughing at your weakness

You = anyone, no-one specific.

 

[F!nch3]

Originally posted by throdgrain
On consideration of all the facts and posts made here.




Bollocks leave it as it is

LMAO Throd

 

[Athan]

My take on this would be that, 1) Being anywhere near an uncappable enemy base when you do *NOT* have control of all the cappable bases is a kicking offence, but 2) If you DO have all the cappable bases then you're free to do whatever you please to the uncappable ones, WHILST the cappable ones remain capped.

Point is to not be a dick and stop people from picking up the vehicles assigned to their team, whilst acknowledging that if a team has managed to lose all the cappable points they probably 'deserve' to get pounded into the ground .

-Ath

 

[TedTheDog]

How does 2) apply to planes and helicopters?
Lets face it, you can camp a base in a plane pretty well if you're a good pilot (I'm not, but I've had it done to me).

Frankly i think the only way to call this is to zap the cocksuckers that are annoying people. Those that charge into a base in a tank and get zapped just once or so in a game arent the problem. Its the 13yr old sociopaths who make it their goal in life to piss everyone off that need zapping.
This obsession with published rules removes the flexibility you need as admins.
If they're pissing people off ban their arses. Dont overdo it, look for a balance. You're in charge (in the context of the game play itself before DaGaffer has a heart attack ) , if you are seen to be putting fair gameplay first you'll be respected and it'll work.
JFDI!

 

[Insane]

cant be bothered with a long speil.

i agree with ted tho, its the seemingly 13yr olds who basecamp for the sake of it... its easy to dispatch a base camper if your smart (flip sake, its a game.. use your noggin for once instead of doing it lemmings style!) but if they are doing it to annoy people then a swift kick solves it, its how its been done for years.

if you want to publish rules, you'll end up turning the game against the people who play it for fun in the end, biggest proof is the elitests in the likes of Tribes 2 and some of the FortressEvolution people.

i guess its just people being picky in the long run because its ruining their fun, so who cares if anybody else is having fun?

 

[adams901]

technically if your in a chopper or plane you are above not in the base, plus there is usually only one chopper so you cant really chopper rush a main base.

At the end of the day its all down to how fun the game is, as you say fairness obviously plays a great part in it.

Having said all that, it can be looked at from both sides of the fence. I'm sure those 13 year olds who pound and camp out enemy bases find it fun, and to stop them base camping would ruin their fun.

I guess its all down to common sense, if someone is ruining the enjoyment factor for others then the admin need to look at the situation and deal with it appropriately and fairly.

 

[TedTheDog]

I was recently asked to "define camping" by our legal dept here, as I was writing up some rules here and I simply said "Dont ban for camping, its a world of hurt waiting to pounce on the unwary".

You see, if you think about it (and theres examples of this in this thread) camping is down to specific places on specific maps in specific game types.
Basically, you cant define camping itself, but you can define pissing off all the other players. If they are pissed off, they are pissed off. Genuis in action. Bow before me.

So I would argue that all talk of camping itself is missing the point. Its not the act, its the result and, usually and importantly, the intent. How many base campers in a tiger tank on the repair pad dont know they're pissing everyone off and achieving nothing for their own team. None I'd say.

 

[adams901]

I agree, and that's a great way to admin a server (might even steal it from you) . I also agree that camping is not a banning offence, in the past it has resulted in a warninig then a kick.

however, I would like see you admin a Counter Strike server like that.. We all know what a whinging bunch they are, and someone shooting them ruins their fun .

 

[TedTheDog]

Heh, I dont have to admin the likes of Counterstrike these days. I work for Sony and now admin stuff like SOCOM instead.
Which is much the same really I suppose....
I suppose its a little different in that theres different kind of cheats (teleporting around the map, hiding inside boxes shooting out and all sorts of clever inventive stuff) but our new world means we know everyones real name and where they live, and we can ban by so many different mechanisms I'm spoilt for choice.

But I agree, its all very well coming up with idealistic stuff like "Its not the act, its the intent", but tell that to 20 angry 5yr olds who've just been camped back to the stoneage by a retard with no communication skills.