Barrysworld Threads Revealing Raids

[Damini]

Since I have closed the last thread because it was just screaming and brimstone, I'd like to have a serious discussion on the matter of threads on Barrysworld that could jeopordise in game raids, or reveal their timing and location.

As a forum closely affiliated with GOA, and with a large active DAoC community thriving here, we have tried to adapt the CoC within this forum to best suit the community, hence we have made new internal rules against advertising accounts and links to third party programmes and so on.

Last night a thread appeared about a raid in process. A quick decision had to be made, and it was deleted. Not because of any offensive content, or irrelevence, but simply because it's timing was inappropriate and may alert people to a raid that was taking place.

Some people seem to agree this was a good decision to make, and some people are spitting blood and demanding the heads of the nearest moderator on a spike.

So I would like a SENSIBLE RATIONAL discussion over whether or not Barryworld should intervene when there is a post on this subject. Would it be ok for each realm to post a warning or a call to arms when they are being raided? Do you think that a post revealing an ongoing raid could give unfair influence over the outcome of that raid?

I would like this thread to continue without flames.

 

[Glottis_Xanadu]

I agree on how Tilda acted.
Shut down a thread concerning realm vs realm unless this action has already passed.
We will hardly find some hib telling mids they saw an Alb group just move through amg in Odin's, so we do not have to worry about such a micro lvl.
I do want to see relic raids, or keep raids to be kept of these boards till later.
The Mid who posted the screen of what he thought was a relic raid. Great, write up how you spotted Albs early, how you informed the Mid alliance, and how Albs were dealt with, owned, etc..
Posting it before you do anything else, and also posting it in the RvR subforum, makes it look like you wanted Hibs to see it also.
Major rvr events should be modded untill AFTER they have taken place.
And I appreciate the effort undertaken by the moderators concerning this approach.
Regards, Glottis

 

[Xandax]

If such threads are to be moderated, I would like it to be _all_ threads of such - and not just "importent" raids. Importance can be relavtive per person and therefore firm rules should be laied down.
This would imo mean - bg keepraids/defence, "real RvR" keepraids/defence, relicraids/defence, PVE raids(dragon, legion, SI boss' etc) that could expect to occupy a great number of "decisive" players (read level 45+) and such.

And threads must be closed unbiased - there must be no reason to suspect a moderators "neutrality" when on these boards working as a moderator. One must be able to clearly see when a moderator is a moderator or just somebody posting personal oppinions.

 

[old.Xarr]

I fail to see why these kind of posts should be deleted. If a relic raid force is observed by someone they should be able to post the info here if they want to. The raid is already in progress then, the enemy has been spotted and the wheels are set in motion. I really doubt a few people browsing BW will be able to log on, rush to a relic keep and foil the raid. Everyone with some relic raid experience know this.

I don't agree with what Tilda did, but the decision was made and I will respect it.

However (this is a big however). If a person is cross-realm spying (i.e has 2 accounts) and get hold of some information about a raid and posts here it should be deleted. The harm will probably already have been done, but still.

My 2cp...

 

[Karnage]

This thing about having "_all_ threads of such - and not just "importent" raids"...


Did anyone actually report the BG thread? if not then you really don't have a case.

Moderators can easily not see threads, so report away. Make these Mods work their little socks off. Get them to delete every thread about every current in-game action and stop whining

 

[old.Xarr]

Originally posted by ASq.Karnage
This thing about having "_all_ threads of such - and not just "importent" raids"...


Did anyone actually report the BG thread? if not then you really don't have a case.

Moderators can easily not see threads, so report away. Make these Mods work their little socks off. Get them to delete every thread about every current in-game action and stop whining

You kind of missed the point with this thread Karnage.

Originally posted by Damini
So I would like a SENSIBLE RATIONAL discussion over whether or not Barryworld should intervene when there is a post on this subject. Would it be ok for each realm to post a warning or a call to arms when they are being raided? Do you think that a post revealing an ongoing raid could give unfair influence over the outcome of that raid?

 

[Xandax]

Originally posted by ASq.Karnage
This thing about having "_all_ threads of such - and not just "importent" raids"...


Did anyone actually report the BG thread? if not then you really don't have a case.

Moderators can easily not see threads, so report away. Make these Mods work their little socks off. Get them to delete every thread about every current in-game action and stop whining

I did not state that they themselves should find them out - I stated that I wanted the rules, if deemed neasecary, to be applied to all and not just some.

How the threads are discovered, wether by reporting and/or a moderator spotting them (usually both will happen at any board wich some traffic) - I am pretty indefferent about, as you will also noticed I didn't write anything about in my post.

So it is not a matter of me "haveing a case" - it is about what the rules should apply to, and in my oppinion it should be all or nothing

 

[Karnage]

oki oki.. sensible reply then...

These forums are THE english server forums of DAoC.

As such I believe most, if not ALL of the CoC, EULA, etc. should be taken into account when moderating these forums.

GOA have said cross realm communicatioin is against their rules. Posting such threads is therefore breaking their rules. By not deleting such threads, moderators could be held responsible for not upholding the rules, when they know full well what the rules are.

Moderators should delete and give a temporary ban (if possible) to anyone trying to tell their realm / other realms about incomming attackers.

 

[old.Xarr]

Originally posted by ASq.Karnage
oki oki.. sensible reply then...

These forums are THE english server forums of DAoC.

As such I believe most, if not ALL of the CoC, EULA, etc. should be taken into account when moderating these forums.

GOA have said cross realm communicatioin is against their rules. Posting such threads is therefore breaking their rules. By not deleting such threads, moderators could be held responsible for not upholding the rules, when they know full well what the rules are.

Moderators should delete and give a temporary ban (if possible) to anyone trying to tell their realm / other realms about incomming attackers.

First, 'cross realm communicatioin' is not against the CoC/EULA. Cross-realm spying is, but that is a completely other issue.

Second, how is making a thread about an albion relic raid force (already in progress, I cannot stress this enouh) cross-realm communication?

 

[Elixir]

hmm well said xarr...your making me think now......NOOOOO!

 

[Karnage]

Originally posted by old.Xarr
Second, how is making a thread about an albion relic raid force (already in progress, I cannot stress this enouh) cross-realm communication?

because people from other realms will see this, thus cross-realm

and dammit, i thought it was in the CoC.... will have to go check again now

 

[old.Xarr]

Originally posted by ASq.Karnage
because people from other realms will see this, thus cross-realm

and dammit, i thought it was in the CoC.... will have to go check again now

Well if you find out cross realm communication is against the CoC you better hurry and delete your BW account then, because aren't we then cross realm communicating?

Anyways, I'm off to bed now. My opinion to Daminis query can be found in my first reply

 

[noaim]

If a thread was posted about that hib/mid/alb is gonna have a RR in 3 days, the person posting should be banned, for lifetime, that is ruining the game. However, posting a bout a raid in progress that we found out of in a valid way...I afil to see how that is a problem.

And off topic, do threads with the title "Guild X CHEAT!!!" belong on these forums? Now while we are talking about threads and so on.

 

[kaod]

In-progress Raid info should never be allowed to be seen by ppl - this is, after all what /as is really supposed to be for.
(Would be nice for a new channel for all alliance leaders or something but seperate issue)

There are 3 realms, so posting info about a RR taking place potentially delivers the information to the 3rd realm who may well be unaware, and even take advantage of it.
This is where the cross-realm communication comes in, and in some ways this can be deemed spying also.
(Think of the "I have it on good authority that albs are going to try a RR type stuff)

IMO, even stuff like keep guard killing should have a small delay in getting back to the realm, not too much, but enough to make it seem sensible that word takes a bit of time to get around.
Of course, if a player is in the keep and announces on /as - this is different.

Quite why there is any need to post on these forums about a RR is beyond me. I assume it's so ppl not logged can see it, but then most probably won't be able to login at that time anyhow, or they probably would have done.
If its a communication issue within the realm that causes the need, then that realm needs to pull it's finger out and sort the problems if it wants to resolve them.

So, Mods, pull the in progress posts please, and annouce the names of the people who try to post them in a seperate forum section called "Flame these people"

And Ban their accounts too, and we can elect someone to duel them ingame, and they only get the account back if they win.
I'll vote Alpha in as the "champion" of forum morality.

 

[osy]

who reads BW, anyway...

 

[elerand]

I think posting raid event info inc dates and times is an act of stupidity and no serious player will do that, a week long warning on an raid attempt is not an issue, think it helps the realms to keep on their toes over planning with matters like this, to encourage a tighter leash on how the information is distributed, most players worth their salt won't release specific times just simply a date, then it's dealt with ingame.


I think using BW as a warning system for events currently taking place is wrong, that includes pve events as well as rr attempts.

Pve events in the sense of, "mids are killing legion, lets go get our relics back", of course there is almost nothing we can do to stop someone with an account on another realm/samer server scenario except reporting them but something can be done about it here.

 

[Exiled]

if its posted in the right realm section whats the problem ? you can accuse albs of "spying" because they are reading the mid section

 

[Radghast]

IMO this type of deletion should only apply to raids that affect multiple raids. PvE raids should not fall into this catergory. This is because most PvE raid threads will not inc specific info regarding start times anyhow and if they do then that is the poster's own damn fault. Besides as someone has already said, only a fool would launch a RR against a realm on a major PvE raid...100+ lvl 45-50 rdy to suicide and probably 90% bound in DL. those who remember attacking alb when they were on a drag raid can vouch for that.

There are ppl who simply browse BW whislt doing other things. those who are quite able to log in a nd play but choose not 2 for whatever reason. for someone to post a "news broadcast" type thread informing those ppl of a ongoing RR they will most likely log in and help there realm.

Even if as a result of these threads nobody logs in, i can understand the argument that it changes the cirumstances of the raid and is done from outside the game enviroment (which i think is where this CoC stuff comes in)

basically, just use /as or /b in BK's as that should achieve the desired affect much quicker.

 

[herjulf]

Well for one thing.
what does a large part of the server community do when they wake up, fire up their computer and browse the forum.

Then head to make a cuppa coffe, watch the news.
Atleast that is what i usually does.

Imo BW forums is a portal where players air ideas, and mostly whines.
Also RvR related material is posted.

What this does is give these individuals a possibility to defend their realm.
Instead of unknowingly going on with their morning business they are able to log in get an update and throw themself into battle for their realm.

Since i am the instigator of these discussions to begin with i wish to add that there are a over 30minutes lapse between the post and the screenie.
They had taken Glenlock at the time i believe.

None theless there is no rules within the current board CoC that prohibits this so imo TILDA have done wrong.
Neither is there anything within the game CoC that prevents me from loggin out of the game and telling ppl what is going on.
cuz that is what i have to do to up the pic, and post.

There is a series of events that makes me wish to se tilda removed as moderator and replaces by a neutral party.
pref if it has to be a player, a player from another server, that is active.

btw it was not a cross realm communikee´ ofc it was aimed to midgarders.
event tilda should understand this.

 

[loxleyhood]

I agree with the action taken - barrysworld should not be used for such things as I believe it ruins the mood of the game.

 

[K0nah]

turn these forums into "official" forums where only albions have access to albion forum etc, using account codes whatever, imo.

 

[Tranquil-]

Delete threads warning about ongoing raids. There is a reason we have /as chat.

People who aren't online WILL miss out and they should, this shouldn't be like a god damned sms service.

 

[old.Odysseus]

IMO there is no need to delete these threads.

The person posting them (asuming he is a member of the realm being attacked) would clearly have warned his alliance and everyone he knew before posting.

Thus, posting here gives little extra advantage and as BW is a means of communication for the community, I see nothing wrong in these threads.

However, posting info on raids on other realms than ones own should not be allowed.

 

[Gekul]

I don't think posting here will make much difference in the long run. Deleting a thread will cause more problems imo (as we have seen). Threads have been posted before while relic raids were under way, how much of a difference do you think they made? This wasn't the first time a relic raid post has been made, the only reason this one has so much attention is because it was deleted in the first place.

The thing is, forgetting any personal opinion on the matter, if you decide that deleting these threads is the way to go, how do you propose deleting all of them considering the time frame for which they are relevant? By the time they are reported the raid is over, so what's the point?
I am usually asleep when these posts are made (Think I'm getting up at 9am for a game? lol), I have nothing to gain from them. It just seems impractical for a moderator to keep an eye on these forums 24 hours a day, just incase someone posts about a RR.

 

[lofff]

By the time a thread pops here every1 on irc knows about the raid, imo deleting the thread was just Tilda showing up her true incompetency again ("hey look at me, am a leet mod, i can delete ur noobie thread")

Anyway i say lets giv tilda another shoot :great:

 

[Jiggs]

it is pretty lame...

if i made that post i would feel quite ashamed, its not really in the spirit of the game is it?

certainly not appropriate in RvR forum where it has questionable 'cross-realm' issues...

 

[Vell]

There was nothing wrong with what Herjulf did. He spotted some albs in our frontier and circulated the information to as many people as he could reach.

There is nothing in the CoC about that. There were NO instances of cross-realm spying. There was no low level albion alt alerting us to the raid. It was a midgard character that spotted a force moving against the midgard relics.

What Tilda did was wrong, and was incredibly biased of him (being an alb, he obviously wanted the relics, so he deleted the thread in an attempt to stop the midgardians reading the forum being aware of this attack).

I repeat, there is NOTHING in the CoC concerning this issue, so your point Damini

As a forum closely affiliated with GOA, and with a large active DAoC community thriving here, we have tried to adapt the CoC within this forum to best suit the community, hence we have made new internal rules against advertising accounts and links to third party programmes and so on.

just doesn't hold up. You can't say the thread was deleted because it intervened with GOA's CoC, because it didn't.

Herjulf was informing people who may not have been in-game at that time of an event.
It is no different from people organising dragon raids, legion raids, or SI hunts on these forums.
It is no different from someone posting 'we will take a fg to caledonia so come along, will be fun'.
It's no different from crafters advertising their wares, or people selling drops they don't want, as all this can be done through in-game communication channels.

These forums are a method of communication for players who are not logged into the game, and that's what Herjulf used it for. I don't see what the problem is.

 

[Damini]

GAH, please will people read what I say. I never said it violated any CoC. Infact, time and time again I have reitterated the fact that it didn't violate the CoC. What I have stated time and time again is that it could be seen as disrupting people's enjoyment of the game, and infact in the part you actually quoted me in, I said we have made adjustments to cater to the community gestalt, and that is what we are doing RIGHT NOW by having this thread.

I don't mind discussing this, but I must say its pissing me off that people keep on trying to call me up on a point I haven't made.

 

[Vell]

The reason we have been given for the deletion of the original thread:

lets see, i delete posts or edit posts that contravene the CoC (GOA's)lie account selling. Cross realm communication is also forbiden and this was just a different for of it, a hib could and probably did read it adn decide to log on and cam amg etc etc, all due to this thread.

Ok, so it wasn't posted by you. It wasn't you that made the point. But it was one of your moderators, one of your staff. And that's the reason people are arguing the point.

IMO, unless you also close down all the IRC channels that people communicate on (which obviously you can't) banning threads of the like here it pointless, people will just go elsewhere. Are we saying that people shouldn't use these forums to communicate? That defeats the whole point of having forums!

 

[Brevis]

The point is very easy to get.

Herjulf's thread was deleted. I have no problem with that. What I do have a problem with is that there are/were other threads similar to Herjulf's that went un-deleted.
Report them you might say, well yes I would then, if I saw them when the current action was happening not 3+ hours after when I have logged out.

So the question is this, do BW now delete all posts like this or will it be the ones the mods feel like they want to delete + those that get reported?

As I said before in the original post, either you do it all the way or you dont do it at all.

You cant have "kindda" rules.