BarrysWorld Q&A Session

[old.relay99]

Most people are unwilling to pay for 0845 access, there is not enough incentive to pay per minute when you can play for free. Games such as Counterstrike compound the problem when you spend alot of time not playing, and wasting the 'brill' ping that your paying for per minute. If the short-term success depends on lots of new 0845 usage, then the service's speed must be something out of this world.

People dont mind 'okay' pings, or a little p/l when playing for free. How many thousands do it every day when they log on to BT Internet, and put up with terrible p/l, pings and lag. I know I do....

Launching without some sort of 'cheaper calls' package in place, and lauching an ad campaign might be very bad. For example, who honestly looked twice at a new free ISP's advert? The new word around is free calls, not free subscription, and from the public reaction to companies like BTi, ntl, and freeserve unmetered, they are willing to revert to paid subscription.

Get something in place, and i'll move straight away.

 

[old.[MOD]Psycho]

Personally I think it's great, Barrysworld was seemingly the 1st major thing to do with gaming online, it was the 1st ISP to stand up and say, yes we're here and we recognise that the online gaming scene is growing to an extent that people can no longer ignore. Better than that it was made by gamers for gamers, and for once that ain't bullshit.

Now that Barrysworld can afford to improve it's service a lot, and it's website (hopefully keeping the green, very distinctive). I reckon a lot of people will use Barrysworld in the future, not just because of loyalties but because the ISP it was used to be the best and I think if they can manage that again it will be great. With those points and the rapidly growing online scene, I think it has a prosperous future and as long as everything is running smoothly, nothing much can stop ya, good luck

 

[old.Tinky]

Tell us what you think ? Good, bad or indifferent, we want to hear it all ..

 

[old.Kez]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally shambled by Tinky:
Tell us what you think ? Good, bad or indifferent, we want to hear it all ..<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't think, I make inane comments (much like this) from beneath the carpet.

 

[Embattle]

Fing Brilliant.

I've been around since the start of BW and I'm glad its now going to get the cash injection it deserves .

Congratulations again and well done BW crew.

Oh and stop Ted reading the FT before he hurts himself......IPO hehe .

[This message has been edited by Embattle (edited 30 April 2000).]

 

[old.acker]

Put me down for one of those t-shirts ChunkMonster mentioned, u know the one with "Who the fuck are BarrysWorld?" on it.
I want one!!!
Can't wait to see barrysworlds secret plans (taking over the world i take it) come to light.

 

[Nighty-]

Bill work lads

Next project is to install a shower for Tedd ....

[This message has been edited by Nighty (edited 30 April 2000).]

 

[old.Pikachu2k]

Triblade sounds like a right tit in this writeup. I mean, he's not exactly in any place to call someone 'big headed' (ie Triblade joins a channel on IRC and says 'I'm l33t') His ego is really making him unpopular with the Quake3 community at the moment.
Keep up the good work BW, you are truly l33t (unlike Triblade)

 

[kan]

Firstly congratulations to the bw team for all the hard work.

I have some ideas that i would like to share with you but to be honest you have probably thought about them already.

1. E-commerce is a difficult area as gameplays shares will show but buying certain items that the gamers want in bulk and then selling it cheaply would make a tidy profit. (for instance the geforce ddr card that was difficult to get hold of but almost all hardcore gamers have one and paid a lot for it)

2. Have You considered making the services of BW available to company for the launching of hardware and games in the uk? If you did a deal with the playing fields for instance you would have a perfect springboard for the launching of hardware and games in the uk as im sure people like 3dfx would like to have a proper launch in the uk with all the gamers there as its us that buy there cards.Plus they would hopefully feel obliged to offer a free bar

3. merchandising is a nice little money spinner and if coupled with idea no 1 it would be great for stuff like 3m mouse mats or the everglide

4. May i suggest each mod has someone who plays the game specifically in charge of the servers and the downloads/community page as at the moment a so called newbie trying to download patches for a certain game would have a nightmare trying to find out.

Anyways i have waffled enough so i will end by saying if i can help bw in any way just give me a shout

all the best
Kan

 

[Utumno]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Most people are unwilling to pay for 0845 access, there is not enough incentive to pay per minute when you can play for free. Games such as Counterstrike compound the problem when you spend alot of time not playing, and wasting the 'brill' ping that your paying for per minute. If the short-term success depends on lots of new 0845 usage, then the service's speed must be something out of this world.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you're prepared to put with the performance of 080x ISP's for gaming, that's fine. Our servers will still be available for you to use. We offer an alternative to it, initially on 0845. BarrysWorld is all about quality of game experience right from ping and packetloss up to community and we're not about to offer an unmetered service that you can buy from anywhere else and get similar performance out of for a similar price.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>People dont mind 'okay' pings, or a little p/l when playing for free. How many thousands do it every day when they log on to BT Internet, and put up with terrible p/l, pings and lag. I know I do....<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

But you don't have much of a choice Even the ISP's known to have a reasonable gaming connection (Clara, Nildram) aren't that great. Think of BarrysWorld as adding the performance choice back into gaming. And then consider this - if you game on BarrysWorld 0845 offpeak for 6 hours a month at 1p a minute that will have cost you the ridiculously low sum of £3.60 and during those 6 hours you'll have had a near-perfect connection 100% of the time. That can be important clan games, league matches, that type of thing.

The key thing is that it's your choice. Use the unmetered access from whatever provider you like for mucking around on and playing clan practices and such like.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Launching without some sort of 'cheaper calls' package in place, and lauching an ad campaign might be very bad. For example, who honestly looked twice at a new free ISP's advert?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

BarrysWorld isn't an ISP.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>The new word around is free calls, not free subscription, and from the public reaction to companies like BTi, ntl, and freeserve unmetered, they are willing to revert to paid subscription.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There's no such thing as a free call, someone somewhere pays for it at some rate or other. Either you pay for it in your monthly subscription fee or the ISP or Telco takes the hit, or obviously a combination of the above. People like BT Internet, ntl and FreeServe have a large userbase and can average out their unmetered usage across that userbase, so that the statistically small number of people who rape the connection don't matter that much. Also a 2 hour disconnect can be reasonably enforced.

Unfortunately the reverse applies to BarrysWorld so we need to be a bit cleverer than the ISP's you're all currently l33ching off.

I'm currently looking at ways to put together an "unmetered gaming subscription" under the BarrysWorld banner. Mail me at utumno@barrysworld.com with what would be a sensible package and price. Suggestions such as 0800 24x7 no cutoff multilinked ISDN with no subscription fee however will be treated with the contempt they deserve

[This message has been edited by utumno (edited 01 May 2000).]

 

[Durzel]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>But you don't have much of a choice Even the ISP's known to have a reasonable gaming connection (Clara, Nildram) aren't that great. Think of BarrysWorld as adding the performance choice back into gaming. And then consider this - if you game on BarrysWorld 0845 offpeak for 6 hours a month at 1p a minute that will have cost you the ridiculously low sum of £3.60 and during those 6 hours you'll have had a near-perfect connection 100% of the time. That can be important clan games, league matches, that type of thing.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Agreed.

I personally switch to a 0845 ISP whenever I play clan games, indeed whenever I play *any* games online - simply because I'm not prepared to put up with the horrendous pings and PL that are a byproduct of 0800 services.

People don't seem to understand that fast connections and 0800 access are mutually exclusive. The sad fact of the matter is that companies offering 0800 access for paltry sums like 12.99 a month (BTi for example) are not making any profit at all, in fact they're probably running them at a substantial loss. I suppose you can blame BT for that, for however much they resell their 0800 services on to ISPs for. The difference is, unlike a 0845 service, a company has no real obligation or incentive to provide anything above and beyond an "average" connection. Indeed companies like X-stream who charge £0.00 for access have no obligation to provide any service at all.

I'm of the opinion also that someone playing for their clan on an 0800 number, knowing it to be terrible ping/PL wise doesn't show an awful lot of dedication to their clan.. I mean how much does 30min on 0845 cost? (with discounts, etc)... its less than a bag of crisps at any rate.

Daz.

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>"We are the music makers, we are the dreamers of dreams. We are the movers and shakers. Of the World forever, it seems."<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

 

[lynchet]

I think there are different groups to consider though. Hardcore gamers are ping obsessive - I'm not saying that there is anything wrong with that, after all if you are playing really competitively thats you need any adge you can get. This means that they are usualy prepared to pay that bit more for a good connection.
BUT Joe Punter isn't. If they can get a reasonable conn on a free telco they will (I know that there are problems here too but you can usually get a usable one !). Hardcore gamers are a minority of the net world. I think if BW is going to succeed its going to have to recognise this.
I know that 0800 dial ups cost, and so could quite understand if BW said they couldn't finance this, but I don't think its right today people dont mind paying for ping.

Barrys has rather been a niche in the net, a place hardcore gamers can gather and have it their way, but if its going to grow and make it as a big company its got to get in the newbies too, and the first stage in this is realising how these people think.
That does not mean you have to alienate current users, keep the 0845 number and speedy servers, but also have nice newbie servers and easy to follow guides etc, and sysops who penalise people for "l33t" flames of newcomers etc.

 

[old.TheGuyver]

Comon Guys give them a break will ya!

Lets face it, unless ISPs start to pay US to use there connection we will not be 100% happy.

An 0800 version of BW may be all well and good, but i personnaly think it should have very little or no web access (i.e JUST bw and a few other gaming related sites)icq/irc etc.

that way no leeching can occour execpt off the BW ftp etc. and it is used for its primary function. Gaming. BW isnt and hopefully will not become an ISP. they are simply provding a means to get a better connection to thier servers.

Please try and understand the difference.

Maybe they should pull the dialup, and re invest into faster inet connection to the net at large.

I think trying to expect an 0800 service full internet 24/7 or even the evenings is too greedy. No other gaming site does this? (that u dont have to pay for)

I very rarly play games for fun anymore, becuase i can only afford the 0800 number, and get too frustrated with it playing normally.

Time will tell, and for the odd clan game i play i will connect to the 0845 number, becuase i dont want to blame a peice of lag on a clan lose. i would actually pay 10 a month to play on 0800 number for BW.

Anyone else here mind paying 10 quid a month for 0800??

 

[old.Pige]

I think your steriotyping 0800 dialups a bit. BTi is the only one that I know of that you would class as "shite". Claranet (freetime), Xstream (- gay banners) and callnet0800 all offer decent connections for games. Normally on these dialups I have 0 redlines on my netgraph, I'm not saying their the best pings, but there is'nt enough of a difference to an 0845 number to justify paying the toll.

With an 0845 number, people are'nt going to use it as much as they did the last GOOD bw dialup. 0800 access is new with plp jumping at any 0800 isp, and cramming it up. When more and more isps go down this route (which they'll have to if they want to survive), users will be spread out more and connections should improve.

0845 might provide some revenue, but its life expectancy won't be too long.

 

[Guest]

&gt;&gt;0845 might provide some revenue, but its life expectancy won't be too long.

I beg to differ!

We're seeing a lot of '0800' services, and that's fine by me. However, they do not provide the necessary 'oomph' for online gaming (fps gaming anyway). Of course people will still use them for gaming, and that's fine by me too

What I want is something different. I want a premium gaming service. Someone has to pay for that, and that someone will have to be me, the user (er...not me alone you understand!).

0845 services do, in general, offer better connection (your experiences may vary, etc), simply because the provider has a revenue source to provide better bandwidth.

An 0845 'Gaming' service would be even better, as it would be designed with online-gaming in mind from the outset. So you're getting a premium product for the normal 'joe-blow ISP' outlay.

I'd imagine that the people who are unable, or unwilling, to pay for 0845 access are not the people that Barrysworld are hoping to attract anyway.

I've already emailed my suggestions to BW, and they include paying up-front money for a service that provides me with a number of 'free' hours on the BW game servers, along with a 1p a minute at any time general service. If I want additional amounts of 'server time', I'll pay for more hours.

If we want a premium service, we're not going to get it for nowt. Online gaming is no different than any other leisure activity. If you're really into it, you'll willingly pay for your pleasure.

Barrysworld is the best in the world at what it does (maybe the *only* one of it's type in the world). As such, those of us who want to use their service will pay to do so.

Regards

SoWat!

 

[Guest]

&gt;&gt;Anyone else here mind paying 10 quid a month for 0800??

I doubt anybody would mind paying 10 quid a month for 0800 access

Question is, could BW provide a decent gaming service for that amount of money? I rather doubt it, and would guess that your £10 would buy you a number of hours rather than unlimited time. Still a good deal though.

Regards

SoWat!

 

[old.Pige]

Why would people pay an extra £10 a month for a LIMITED number of hours on barrysworld when they can shell out the same amount for unlimited off peak hours on a dialup that imo is'nt that inferior (thinking claranets new offpeak deal).

The rules have changed since the last good barrysworld dialup, you either have to match the big players or aim somewhere else. ie a REALLY quality dialup that plp use only for clan games etc.

 

[old.TheGuyver]

i wouldnt mind paying for hours on a BW shithot 0800 number.

OK 10 even 20 quid a month for unlimited may be too much of a dream, but the majority of the companies offering this service either take the hit them selves, and get into chessy banner ads, or the teleco they are providing "in partnership" takes the hit.

Would u pay 50 quid for unlimited bw 0800?? tbh i wouldnt. simply because i cannot afford it.

Whats wrong with using a free normal isp to chat/download etc. then when your clan match is on, or u fancy a decent ping and kickabout u log onto BW.

Both ways have merit. I would think a flat rate charge for limited hours (i.e from 7pm - 12pm) would be better. rather than a tenner buys you 3 hours a day thing.

dunno. How much time do u actully spend on the internet? if it was free would u spend more time on it?

 

[Durzel]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Would u pay 50 quid for unlimited bw 0800?? tbh i wouldnt. simply because i cannot afford it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The irony of this statement is that it is the exact reason I *would* be prepared to pay £50+ for a decent 0800 service.

The main problem as I see it (with the possible exception of BTi, although it's definitely struggling) is that as soon as any 0800 service comes out, it is great for the first week or so - rapidly becoming either:

a) impossible to get on,
b) too slow to use effectively

You need only look at the history of "0800 ISPs" - i.e. X-stream, RedHotAnt, etc - to see that they all promise much, deliver well at the outset, and oversubscribe heavily - simply because that's the only way that can survive. The user/modem ratio for these services must be horrendous for them to even consider offering the services they do for "reasonable" prices like 25 pounds per month, etc.

I don't mean to be patronising or anything, but people don't seem to realise that ISPs have to pay BT metered rates just like we do for 0800 access provisions, and it doesn't come cheap - and a paltry £20 a month doesn't begin to even cover a fraction of it.

The big ISPs like BT Internet and Clara can just about balance the load through their existing 0845 packages and sheer number of subscribers - this is a luxury however that upstart ISPs do not have.

As I said originally at the start of this post, I would be prepared to pay upwards of £50 a month (even as high as £100) for a *decent* 0800 service (if such a thing exists) simply because paying such a figure excludes the vast majority of people who currently already clog up the less-expensive alternatives currently available.

Daz.

 

[Embattle]

It would be a silly move if BW tried to supply an 0800 dialup for a set cost. I could only imagine that providing even a slightly decent 0800 number would cost a lot and there are other things that need that money more.

 

[Guest]

My current ISPs are:

BTInternet
CIX
Claranet
Barrysworld
Jolt (unused since BW dialup returned).

BTinternet is now £9.99 a month. I paid a year up front (for the discount). I get 0800 access 6pm - 12pm and all weekend. It's dreadful for gaming, and only fair for general internet use. It does have 2Gb of webspace which I use to backup the mammoth files my work creates.

Claranet is £6.99 a month, and calls are charged at 1p a minute at all times. Not bad for gaming, and pretty good for general internet stuff.

Barrysworld costs nowt except for a local call. Good for gaming (though not as good as before), but never tried surfing with it.

CIX costs me about £18 a month. Calls are charged at local rate. Excellent for gaming, likewise for surfing. Quite expensive, but a lot of people are prepared to pay for the service, as it offers a superb conferencing system. If gaming and surfing were crap, I'd still pay £18, as the conferencing is worth that alone (it also has global roaming, etc). In short, CIX has a unique service that I pay a premium for.

Oh, almost forgot...I have a company account with compuserve, which is shite for everything The main reason I used this account, was for the local access anywhere in the world.

Most of my online time is used for business (normally peak rate), hence all the different schemes. But if I were to choose just one, it would be CIX. It's the most expensive, but it's also the best. That's not a coincidence.

I think that Barryworld will be providing a unique service. I am prepared to pay for that service, as are many others. Those that wont pay for the service will still have the option to use other ISPs.

I guess it all boils down to how much you want a dedicated gaming service. A service that you are going to have to pay for.

 

[old.TheGuyver]

Yeah durz it is very ironic. I would pay 50 quid for it, if i had the usage of it. or even needed the usage of it. i dont play that many games online anymore, i go to lans for that.

I suppose if i did gaming online more then yes i would pay for it. I think if i did have that service, i would play alot more. esp for 50 quid.

Chicken and egg thing init. The hardcore gamers who could see the most usage out of it would pay. but the majority "leechers" out there who happen to play games at other times wouldnt pay for it.

Still im sure BW will listen to all this and come up with something suitable. but at the end of the day u will never be able to please everyone

(unless they can support free 0800 unlimited 365 day a year access)

so please bear that in mind when they make thier plans more widely known.

BTW durz, top marks for your colum m

 

[old.frankie]

Cheap 0800 access comes in the form of EZESURF

Stac compression, 150 - 170 pings to BW on the HL servers

140 on the Q3 servers, 24/7 access all for 40 quid in shares and thats it.
www.surfsaver.co.uk is the share company who uses the ezesurf equipment.

tis good

Still the jolt dialup is the best, better than BWs own dialup i think what with the sub 120 pings.

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DR_FRANKENSTIEN

 

[Embattle]

Jolt is better than BW's current dialup, although its not really theirs .

 

[old.Socrates]

Ezesurf, pissysurf more like, useless

 

[old.frankie]

how u work that out soc

u got it

whats up with it

seems really good for me

NO PL, Damn good pings and good stac compression with pings of under 140 to BW q3 servers ( NO PL ) whats wrong with that exactly ?

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DR_FRANKENSTIEN

 

[old.relay99]

I think you have missed the point. Barrysworld is obviously trying to expand. (Why else would it be advertising?) The 0845 model will only KEEP a few 'hard-core' gamers, but it wont attract too many new people. In fact, i'd say it would turn a few people away - many to be honest.

You can argue this point but look at the free ISP 'revolution'. Before the 0800 deals came out, who paid for an ISP when you could get perfectly good access for free? Some people did, but the balance between paid and free continued to tip in favour of free ISPs. The same will happen when it comes to call models.

You cant honestly say that current 'free-call' ISPs are not here to stay. Of course they are! They just need to balance themselves out. Im not saying an 0845 service will be a total disaster - im just saying it wont attract new customers.

Sure people might pay just for a clan match or something, but then Barrysworld really would be screwed hey? And lets not forget normal dial-up is a dying technology...

I really do hope that Barrysworld sort something out, as I would like to see them suceed.

 

[old.TheGuyver]

OK so how do barrysworld keep an 0800 free service...

1. Running?
2. Stop lame ass leaching
3. keeping it for gamers

and still remain non isp?

Something some where has to give in. i have a friend with about 10 different free isps. which he just leap frogs and leeches from during the day.

Personnaly id hate it if BW went to pot because of leeching. at the end of the day a small or medium charge for using an unmetered shithot gaming access isnt that much to ask.

[This message has been edited by TheGuyver (edited 03 May 2000).]

 

[Embattle]

relay99 you seem to forget that BW is and never has been an ISP. BW runs game servers mainly along with a few other services. If you look and Wireplay, they too have loads of servers and they don't actually have an 0800 number of there own. With either service you are able to connect to games servers using an 0800 number so I don't see that throwing money at an 0800 number would do much good for BW.

 

[old.Pige]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by frankie:
140 on the Q3 servers, 24/7 access all for 40 quid in shares and thats it.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, you've bought the shares but they can cut the 0800 number anytime they like seen as your not actually paying for it.