banks lost overdraft test case

[Mabs]

see beeb link

tis a start

 

[dysfunction]

heh funnily enough i'm busy fighting Abbey over some charges they made to my account...

I can't wait till this is finalised.

I hate the Abbey bank. They are one of the worst I have ever used.
They charged me £25 for being in overdraft even though I wasnt.
They then charged me £1.48 in interest on this £25.

I ring their Indian call centre and after about 30 mins get them to reverse the charges, or so i thought.
They reversed the £25 but not the interest so they now have charged me another £25 for being in overdraft of £1.48 plus more interest!!!



And to top it off the Branch is not able to reverse the charges...after i have been there twice!
And they tell me they only do 1 charge reversal a year!!

 

[Mabs]

not you , but in general.. i love the way people assume banks are there to help.. they are there to make money, end.of.

never trust em and never EVER let them put you in a place where they can fuck you, cos they will

 

[inactionman]

I may finally get the grand that Lloyds owe me, after the FSA stay held my case.

 

[russell]

Yay!

I have been following this case too as I am claiming back for some highly stupid charges. Lets hope we can now get a good result.

Mind you they will now be swamped with people claiming!

 

[Mey]

Er. They haven't lost anything yet, the case just ruled that the OFT was allowed to look / decide if the charges are fair or not.

 

[Trem]

heh funnily enough i'm busy fighting Abbey over some charges they made to my account...

I can't wait till this is finalised.

I hate the Abbey bank. They are one of the worst I have ever used.
They charged me £25 for being in overdraft even though I wasnt.
They then charged me £1.48 in interest on this £25.

I ring their Indian call centre and after about 30 mins get them to reverse the charges, or so i thought.
They reversed the £25 but not the interest so they now have charged me another £25 for being in overdraft of £1.48 plus more interest!!!



And to top it off the Branch is not able to reverse the charges...after i have been there twice!
And they tell me they only do 1 charge reversal a year!!

That really made me laugh

Sorry Dys.

 

[russell]

Er. They haven't lost anything yet, the case just ruled that the OFT was allowed to look / decide if the charges are fair or not.

I stand corrected. I had got over -excited listening to the media hype
Bank Charges Reclaiming News: Result in the High Court test case!...

Does sound like a step in the right direction tho.

 

[Mey]

I personally don't think it's a step in the right direction but then I'm kind of sitting from a bias stand point.

I understand getting charges is frustrating but they are apart of the contract that you sign when you open an account. It's your responsibility to make sure you have the money to cover your Direct Debts/standing orders and you shouldn't even be writing cheques unless the money is in there at the time of writing it.

Consquently, what will invariably happen is banks will begin to charge a monthly fee for all current account holders. So because of a miniority of people who are incapable of looking after there own accounts and needed to be handheld throughout their adult life we will all suffer.

Hoorah!

/end rant.

 

[Tom]

I understand getting charges is frustrating but they are apart of the contract that you sign when you open an account.

Your rant is very naive. Unlawful contract terms are unenforceable. Full stop, end of.

 

[inactionman]

The other thing, which I think is worse ethically, is that the people who can least afford to are basically forced by the banks to subsidise the majority. That's not right.

 

[Mey]

Your rant is very naive. Unlawful contract terms are unenforceable. Full stop, end of.

Evidentaly they are

 

[Tom]

Evidentaly they are

I don't think you understand English law. The banks do, which is why they always pay out.

 

[Raven]

the banks are having a hard time atm, self owned over the credit crunch and now this

 

[Sar]

Think you lot are bad?

In NI we are stuck with a monopoly when it comes to banks, as there's only really 4 big banks.

I'm with the Ulster Bank. Go overdrawn? £30 "Un-arranged Borrowing Fee" plus interest, then another £30 "Maintenance Fee" the following month, all for the one occasion of going overdrawn.

Yes there are building societies over here, and I'd be tempted...

Oh and they currently have my claim for £1144 worth of charges over 4 years on hold because of the test case, plus another year's worth which I'll be applying for seeing as this has taken so damn long.

 

[Munkey]

This is actually not news, beyond the fact that the courts have decided to review the charges levied and decide if they are to high.

If you read the link that Russell posted, you will see that the court has accepted that the charges are acceptable, and are not actually 'penalty fees'. Considering that everyone who has written to the banks so far has claimed that the bank has levied 'penalty fees' this will have great repercussions.

Plus, whilst the charges may be unnacceptable, the banks will now have to repay millions of pounds, a situation which will not help our economy and will drive it even more into crisis.

It was completley the wrong time for this news to come out, hopefully it can be dragged out long enough that we can get things 'ship-shape' again. But the way things are looking? Doesn't look good.

 

[Mey]

I don't think you understand English law. The banks do, which is why they always pay out.

I understand English law perfectly, I just don't believe that the OFT is a suitable organisation to judge anything.

They should be focusing on real crimes like the Tv Licence fee..

 

[Mey]

Exactly Munkey, something which I mentioned in the off topic thread. Banks lower down the pecking order will be hit badly by this and I don't think the Govt. can pull another "we will cover your money" trick out of the hat without major comebacks.

As for the banks paying out, it is cheaper for them to settle it out of court, than it is to send a full on defence. If the bank was to go to court for every single claim it would be silly expensive.

 

[Munkey]

Exactly Munkey, something which I mentioned in the off topic thread. Banks lower down the pecking order will be hit badly by this and I don't think the Govt. can pull another "we will cover your money" trick out of the hat without major comebacks.

As for the banks paying out, it is cheaper for them to settle it out of court, than it is to send a full on defence. If the bank was to go to court for every single claim it would be silly expensive.

Thing is though, theres going to be at least one person who won't want to settle out of court. Like it or not, this is going through. The whole point of this is to create 'acceptable' limits for the charges, thus avoiding the whole mess of constant court-cases.

Looks like we have another QuANGO to look forward to, in order to help us regulate it all!

Or god forbid, the FSA.

"DANGER! Will Robinson! Danger!"

 

[dysfunction]

heh funnily enough i'm busy fighting Abbey over some charges they made to my account...

I can't wait till this is finalised.

I hate the Abbey bank. They are one of the worst I have ever used.
They charged me £25 for being in overdraft even though I wasnt.
They then charged me £1.48 in interest on this £25.

I ring their Indian call centre and after about 30 mins get them to reverse the charges, or so i thought.
They reversed the £25 but not the interest so they now have charged me another £25 for being in overdraft of £1.48 plus more interest!!!



And to top it off the Branch is not able to reverse the charges...after i have been there twice!
And they tell me they only do 1 charge reversal a year!!

I win!!! Woohoo!!

I complained to the financial ombudsman about these clowns and Abbey have decided as a goodwill gesture they are going to pay me £240!! Which is about £100 more than I expected to get back!

Excellent!!

As soon as my money arrives I'm closing my account! :lol:

 

[Chilly]

meh. manage your finances better.

 

[nath]

meh. manage your finances better.

They charged me £25 for being in overdraft even though I wasnt.

You are a retard sometimes Chilly.

 

[Kryten]

I don't like people who are just out to claim everything possible if they're entitled to it or not, however sometimes companies, banks included, do like to push their luck a little bit.
Fair enough, charge someone an administrative fee if they go over their overdraft limit or get an unpaid direct debit - but a fee that accurately represents any funds lost by the bank to administer this issue, which is nearer £2.70 on average (yet generally people would find £5 fair) - rather than £25 which was and still is in many cases the common administrative fee.

 

[Chilly]

cba

 

[Litmus]

not you , but in general.. i love the way people assume banks are there to help.. they are there to make money, end.of.

never trust em and never EVER let them put you in a place where they can fuck you, cos they will

a'men people seem to think banks are some government run scheme to help the general population, when they are just as much of any normal business you see anywhere else.

 

[Kryten]

But there has to be a line drawn somewhere to separate business and nonsensical, unfair profiteering. Charging a monthly amount to run an account, having set (far lower) administrative fee's and handling interest appropriately should be enough for banks to run, many do take the piss and extort where necessary.
For instance, where's the justice in someone making a small human error, going 1 penny over an overdraft, or 1 penny under with no overdraft facility, and charging them £25 for the privilege. Sure, if you just forgive it you have to do it across the board, and those 1 pennies add up, but instantly making that person then £25.01 overdrawn/in the red is out of order.

Naturally the above figures are examples, before anyone jumps on it, but it does happen very, very often. As I've already said, it's up to the customer to manage their accounts and finances properly and it's up to the bank to stick to the rules and regulations set out before them when handling their customers money, regulations set to protect all involved parties. If there's an investigation such as this, there's clearly reason for it to take place.

 

[old.user4556]

You are a retard sometimes Chilly.

I disagree with you on this one nath; Chilly simply hits the nail I think.

Regards to the Abbey fiasco, that's a poor show and I fully sympathise. I think it's rediculous to be fined £25 for going slightly overdrawn. Offshoring call centres is a typical example of companies wanting to reduce cost to keep the fat cats happy; they're happy to pay "fuck off" fees because the 10-a-week bananas that they pay the Asians is worth it.

However, I've read about, heard of and seen some right chancing piss takers out there who simply do need to manage their money a damn sight better. When I say pisstakers, I mean those that will knowingly do whatever to buck the banking system (like half the losers on moneysavingexpert) to squeeze whatever money they can back when they knowingly miss-manage their money.

"I overdrew by £20 and I was charged £25!" - well phone the fucking bank in advance and arrange a more appropriate overdraft?

People forget that typical current and saving account services are free. You can service 24/7, 365 days a year via the internet, telephone banking (some of them crap, some of them pretty good) or your local branch. You can get money on tap from ATMs, they pay you money when you're in credit (granted, fuck all in the current climate) and if you ask nicely you can arrange an overdraft. Last time I checked, that entire 24/7 money managing service cost me next to fuck all.

The banks make it crystal clear to even the most retarded people that if you exceed your overdraft function (immediate money that isn't even yours, and some don't even charge interest for the first £100, so again it's free) that you will be charged for it - yet people still can't fathom it? You should keep your money under the bed then, maybe instead of performing identity checks to prevent fraud, maybe we need IQ tests to prevent idiots from entering the banking system.

Take mortgages as another example. I've read so much bleeting about banks not passing on the rate cuts, but remember folks, other than the arrangement fee you paid they leant you tens or maybe hundreds of thousands of pounds in good faith based on your earnings to put a roof over your head. The banks can't win on this one: lend too much, they get accused of irresponsible lending. Don't lend enough, they get accused of not helping out when people need it most.

...and don't start me on credit cards.

The banks do need challenged on their charges for petty amounts, but take a second to think what i've said above.

As for the "banks are just there to make money"; Jesus Fuck of course they are, the best thing to do is not give them an excuse to make money from you. If you borrow money, it's going to cost you; and if you're borrowing too much money and paying a lot of charges or interest, you're miss managing your money and living outside of your means.

My mate is forever complaining about how much interest he's charged on his rediculously balanced credit cards (he has thousands), the APR on his mortgage, the APR on his two car loans - but my words to him are always the same: you're living well outside of your means, you're too greedy, downsize your house, get rid of one of your cars and clear the credit card.

But will he? No, he wants it all, and that's the problem in the UK today: everyone wants everything, right now, for free. Including bank service.

 

[nath]

All good points G, but Dysfunction clearly stated that he wasn't overdrawn so the "manage your finances better" comment was pretty pointless.

 

[rynnor]

But will he? No, he wants it all, and that's the problem in the UK today: everyone wants everything, right now, for free. Including bank service.

Much like the banks themselves - they had a nice little business once - offering interest to attract depositors then lending out that money at a higher rate and making a small profit whilst providing an essential service.

However they got greedy, they realised many people were poor at managing their money so came up with elaborate systems to screw money out of people whilst providing amusingly titled 'free banking'.

They started screwing depositors by offering current accounts that paid practically no interest boosting their own profits again.


They realised they could make even more money if they started funding mortgages with other peoples money thus the money markets were born.

Previously they had assessed people who wanted loans to make sure they could afford them but eventually realised that in a rising market they could make money even if they had to re-posess homes.

So to make even more money they came up with self certified mortgages where as long as you said you were earning x they would look the other way and just for fun set these at an even higher interest rate - they couldnt lose!

Finally in the height of their hubris the banks started packaging up these dodgy loans so that the regulators would be confused and they could then lend even more money because obviously property prices would only ever go up and up...

So yes indeed the banks are the poor victims of heartless customers out to screw them

 

[Chilly]

All good points G, but Dysfunction clearly stated that he wasn't overdrawn so the "manage your finances better" comment was pretty pointless.

I didnt read the thread. It was a general comment aimed at the vast majority of those charged by banks for spending money they didnt have. Of course there will be a very small number of cases that slip through due to any of several factors:

banks greed
banks stupidity
cosmic particle corrupting your row in the oracle DB they store the accounts on

In general, the fees are appropriate imo. I got stung once, it was my fault and I sucked it up. Won't be doing it again, either.