Balance of the Game

K

king_kettil

Guest
Is there anyone out there that Actually feels that this game is balanced ? Been reading future patchnotes and it only gets worse. worst yet must be the one on pendragon atm.. mincers gets climb + safe fall .. so Albion will now have two classes that can climb in to the keeps.. and it's not like mincer + infil is a bad combo is it ? >.<

Anyway there is a gathering of names to send to mythic to stop the imbalincing of the games going on at

http://www.noisefolio.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=2750#2750

Also feel free to lend shoulders to cry on here, the walls are made of rubber so feel free to go on a rampage.. I know I did.

Let us help mythic Balance this game and what ever you do..

Stop them from getting a second wall climber when the rest of us are stuck with 1 !
 
O

old.Atrox

Guest
Yea!
let's read a report, use our own experience to decide if the new changes are overpowerd or not, let's skipp the testing lets cry.



PLEASE! let it pass the testserver, PLEASE TRY the changes before you whine, god damnit.
Some of the changes seems abit to much, but I'm gonna give it a try first, then I'll whine.
 
A

Alrindel

Guest
When most people talk about "balancing the game" what they really mean is "boost me nerf them". An online petition "to send to mythic to stop the imbalincing of the games" is just silly - as if the game was formerly perfect and they ruined it with changes. If you have concrete proposals with detailed research behind them, as the class team leaders are expected to produce, then whip them out and let's see them. Or just stick to games like Quake, where everyone gets exactly the same class and abilities and nothing is ever changed except the occasional map.
 
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old.Trine Aquavit

Guest
Mythic's strategy for game balance:

1. Select the realm which, overall, is underperforming
2. Identify the classes within that realm that need a boost
3. Apply changes to give required boost
4. Go to 1.

Seems pretty sensible, really.

Albion needs a boost at the moment. They have the highest population (all servers), yet have the least RP's (overall and weekly). Mythic need to boost Albion until they can gain the same number of RPs per week as Hibernia. When they've done that they can try to do the same with Midgard.
 
K

king_kettil

Guest
this is pretty sad.. I do not want to empower me nerf the,.. I want balance and there is no balance in this None what so ever.

Too bad the two of you don't think im serious or have made research first.. but I am and I have.
 
K

king_kettil

Guest
um but what they don't seem to understand is that you can't do change like theese just by looking on " who's getting less RP atm" since the changes will stay after they have gained back the " lost RP's"

They need to use logic instead of

" quick-wanna-get-this-patch-overwith" - syndrome
 
W

Whoodoo_RD

Guest
I agree that Albion may need some classes raising a little on certain areas, but Im sorry, Mincers already have several advantage over other classes. IMO they should be one of the last classes to get help.

Stealth to me is already over powered, and to me gives a distinct advantage over other classes, espacially mellee only classes who normally cant even get close to most of their targets.

This is obviously aimed at getting into keeps, so alb get 2 classes who can, maybe Hib and Mid will too next?
 
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old.Trine Aquavit

Guest
What makes you think I haven't researched this? Take a look at the Camelot Seer. It gives a whole lot of statistics on realm population and RPs across all servers. That's really all the info Mythic need to determine which realms need a boost.

You have to remember that this is game balance, not 1 vs 1 balance, and not class vs class balance. The fact that minstrels get safe fall & climb walls is irrelevent to the hunter, for instance. Hunter will get new stuff when Midgard is the realm in need of a boost and when Hunters are more in need of a boost than other Midgard classes.
 
K

king_kettil

Guest
and Alrindel. heres some facts:

Albion has 2 more classes then midgard and 1 more then hibernia.

Albion has 3 stealther classes hib/mid got 2

Albion will soon have 2 Climb classes mid/hib got 1

Albion got 2 charm classes Midgard got none
( and don't you dare count hunters pet's) and hibernia got 1

Albion has one yber style ( Dragonfang) whilst Midgard and hibernias 50 styles are balanced.



and I have been doing some indephs research of all the "special" (the class specifik ones) ra's in the game.. and I must say you here is a list of completly unusefull RA's:

( Midgard )


Shadow Run ( shadow blades)
Tundra ( berserker)
Ravager ( savage)
Doombringer ( warrior )

( Hibernia )

Winter Moon (blade master)
Razorback (hero)
Master of Arms (all)

( Albion )
Void (mercenary)
Master of arms (all)

ok and now some arguements =)


that style that can be used every 10 minutes.. wohoo 50 more dmg in one hit every 10 minute.. is REALLY not worth thr realm skill points spent. an idea would be to change it so you can use the styles for 60 secs, every 15 minutes.

Shadowrun.. well I don't know of a single shadowblade using this.. and comparing it to Viper and Vanish.. well then it is really bad. either change so it is permanent ( always run at normal speed when stealthed) OR just get shadowblades a new one ( since infiltrators RA is based on stealth, Nightshades on venom maybe shadowblades RA should be based on critical strike? )

And all in al, RA's are not very balanced. Albion got 50 % abs to all in group ( clerics ) speed of sound ( minstrels ) faith healing ( palladins) all of theese are superior to any midgardian special RA.
and hibernia got Group Purge soon have defender of the vale ( vale walkers) why don't Midgard have any special RA's that helps the whole group ? ( except battery of life but all main healer classes get theese)

Well that said about RA's how about changing Dragonfang? ( lvl 50 thrust style) do you have any idea how it effects game balance in the shadow world? ( nightshades and shadowblades don't have a chance against something with evade 7 and a " use after evade-9sec-stun-style")


As you can see I am not after making Midgard yber just because I play there.. I simply question the balance of the game..
 
L

-Lonewolf-

Guest
So how would u balance it

In all the time I have played DAoC it seems to be one class gets love so they are uber, then people cry too powerful so they nerf, so then people go oh they crap now so they give them love..etc...etc

The minstrel class is a perfect class to use as an example

Love
1) Minstrels UBER speed, stun, mez, and AND STEALTH

People moan

Nerf
2) Minstrels See hidden OH THEY NERFED STEALTH USELESS, OMFG, shouts use to much power, end and melee is shit dmg

People moan

Love
3)Walk up walls, 9sec stun now

And everyone is moaning

What you suppose to do if your mythic

Fact of the matter is learn ur class, and deal with it and stop throwing the rattle out of the pram in the hope that in some distant galaxy they will nerf all classes and leave urs uber because in reality thats all you want

Balance never exists in a MMORPG its all about skill, luck and then some more luck
 
L

-Lonewolf-

Guest
Man this argument is soooooooooooooooo old

Do we have to go over and over it again everyone knows that Hibernia is Uber Midgard is close second but need major love in the melee department and Alb is only good because of the sheer numbers of people who go there
 
K

king_kettil

Guest
If I was mythinc ( if we are soly speaking of ministrels) I would ignor them crying about their stealth beeing nerfed because of see hidden ( since they got an extra class with stealth anyway, if you want yber stealth play an infiltrator)

I for one would leave mincers as they are atm on Eurpoe servers. Speed and some song ( not the ablative aura song though)

it seems very balanced that way.
and once again I get an acusation of wanting me to be Yber and everyone else nerfed.. can't you just realize that it's not about that at all ?
 
F

Flimgoblin

Guest
yeah! stop imbalancing the game!

Back to release!

get rid of damage from falling! and wall climbing! and nerf ladders!

Hey! Earth wizards have too many spells in their line! Their spec line should be a damage shield and a bolt!

Damnit! Who decided stun shouldn't be recastable! get rid of the timers.

And nerf those assassins back down - give them less spec points damnit!

Keeps? guilds claiming keeps? nah! remove that.

Relics just unbalance the game.

Hey remove darkness falls, frontier dungeons, shrouded isles! they're just imbalancing.

Change is inevitable.

For every list you post about how Alb is overpowered and has X of this and Y of that... you can post one right back saying that Mid or Hib is overpowered.

heh we get extra classes - lucky us... same abilities spread throughout 4 caster classes! whoopee!

As they would say on the VN boards (where your little rant belongs)
Cry more n00b.
Use skill and tactics.
 
F

Flimgoblin

Guest
Originally posted by old.Trine Aquavit
Mythic's strategy for game balance:

1. Select the realm which, overall, is underperforming
2. Identify the classes within that realm that need a boost
3. Apply changes to give required boost
4. Go to 1.

Seems pretty sensible, really.

Albion needs a boost at the moment. They have the highest population (all servers), yet have the least RP's (overall and weekly). Mythic need to boost Albion until they can gain the same number of RPs per week as Hibernia. When they've done that they can try to do the same with Midgard.

Simple Newton Raphson method :) iteratively descend to a stable state.

With any luck it'll be patches increasing zerker damage by 1 point per hit and giving mages an extra 0.5% resist on something that'll be causing serious uproar in a years time...

that or brand new classes pinballing into balance ;)
 
O

old.Trine Aquavit

Guest
Originally posted by king_kettil
um but what they don't seem to understand is that you can't do change like theese just by looking on " who's getting less RP atm" since the changes will stay after they have gained back the " lost RP's"

Yes, the changes will stay. So will the changes to the other realms to keep them competitive. They balance things by adding stuff, not taking away - few changes are direct nerfs, and those that are, are nerfs that affect all realms in the same way (CC nerfs, removal of IP for all assassins).

I'd challenge anyone to come up with a better core strategy for realm balance than the one I outlined above.

Of course, that doesn't mean Mythic don't make errors in their implementation of this strategy. The question of whether it is minstrels that should have got the boosts is a good one. Obviously, Mythic have to make some sort of value-judgement on which class (or spec) is most in need. Looking at the current weekly RP totals it would seem that minstrels don't really need much of a boost, and that Paladins are actually in more need (the second most popular 45+ class in the game gained the second fewest RPs last week - eek). Or maybe Cabalists need more of a boost (the lowest population of 45+ bar the SI classes). It seems Mythic use different criteria.
 
F

Flimgoblin

Guest
Paladins are actually quite good :) I'd kill to be able to sprint after people constantly...

however a lot of paladins have retired/only do PvE whereas there's a lot less minstrels/infiltrators/archers that'll do that.

1.59 removes a lot of the groupability of minstrels, and the minstrel stealth has been useless since 1.50

this patch does a lot to repair that.
 
K

king_kettil

Guest
Generally I think the realms were pretty balanced before the whole 1.60 but now with bigger mez from sorcs, in mezzble/snareble/rootble/stunneble pets from theurgists. 3 sec casting time on clerics DD ETC ETC ETC it is getting imbalanced.

I guess though that we on the Europe servers gets to suffer the most though, since on our servers Albion are the Mighty forces even though they are lower in numbers then Midgard. but if it is so that Albion are the weakest realm on US servers.. well then we suffer I guess since they think that they are balening the game by making Albion Far more better then the other realms.

but I say again.. look at my lists of " in need to be balanced" and you see that they still have 2 more classes etc etc and thats just not right.
 
K

king_kettil

Guest
< cuaghs> I say again.. Albion got 3 stealther classes when hib/mib got 2.. so if mincers can't hide form see hidden they still got an advantage if there is noone with see hidden around..
 
A

Alrindel

Guest
Originally posted by king_kettil
Generally I think the realms were pretty balanced before the whole 1.60 but now
Either you play on Pendragon and you were up all last night testing the new changes, or you're posting to Barrysworld from the FUTURE using some sort of quantum hyperleap ansible web browser thingy.

Or you're just talking out of your arse. Which is perfectly normal and acceptable behaviour on game forums, so please by all means carry on.
 
K

king_kettil

Guest
or yes I play on pendragon.. sort of.. got a friend that does and have been spending slot of time at his place wathing the new patches in action.. now please stop the insulting, I am no 14 year old that just wants to win... I WANT BALANCE is that so hard for you to understand ?
 
B

Belsameth

Guest
And nerf those assassins back down - give them less spec points damnit!

YAY! sounds like a good thing!

besides that, I kinda agree with Alrindel, and (s)he said it in a much more witty and humorous way then I'll be able to...
 
N

Novamir

Guest
Originally posted by -Lonewolf-
Man this argument is soooooooooooooooo old

Do we have to go over and over it again everyone knows that Hibernia is Uber Midgard is close second but need major love in the melee department and Alb is only good because of the sheer numbers of people who go there


ahaha

Midgard need major love in the melee department? hohoho. warriors needed a damage tweak admittedly. zerk is the most damaging melee in the game. skald is the best melee hybrid in the game. thane needs some additions (and will get)

heros make good damage but it was on par with warriors BEFORE the 15% damage increase. (and a warrior will have more parries although moose is better). BMs can be quite painful but they're no zerker. champs do hero damage (plus the DD).

if more of your alb armsmen were hybrid slam/slash pole then you'd have more damaging tanks than hib heros since pole styles are better than spear ones.


to the original poster: shh :twak:
 
C

case-rigantis

Guest
while your WHINING about balancing we`d best keep ENCHANTERS and WARDERS out of the thread don`t you think?

ooh feck i just mentioned them woops :rolleyes:
 
M

mavericky

Guest
Mythic have stated that they are looking at all the classes in all the realms, so just hold on and wait. Also the way GOA do patches it is likely we will get 1.60 with maybe 1.61.& 1.62, so we may never see the changes that only apply to Albion but see others too.

Remember the game will always change and be adapted, realms and classes will come to the forefront and then fade back again.
 
K

king_kettil

Guest
I think ill just drop this.. seems like there are too few good discussioners.. grow up people..

thank you old.Trine Aquavit for some good discussion.
 
F

Flimgoblin

Guest
Originally posted by Novamir

if more of your alb armsmen were hybrid slam/slash pole then you'd have more damaging tanks than hib heros since pole styles are better than spear ones.

in duels...

two handed is better in open RvR (but noone uses it)

and large weapon's 50 style is just evil :)
 
F

Flimgoblin

Guest
Originally posted by king_kettil
I think ill just drop this.. seems like there are too few good discussioners.. grow up people..

thank you old.Trine Aquavit for some good discussion.

Ahh we didn't bow down and agree with you therefore we can't hold a coherent debate.

Did you want us to post "All hail King Kettil! For he speaketh the truth!"

Realms about balanced before this patch? hah!
 
L

-Lonewolf-

Guest
Originally posted by Novamir



ahaha

Midgard need major love in the melee department? hohoho. warriors needed a damage tweak admittedly. zerk is the most damaging melee in the game. skald is the best melee hybrid in the game. thane needs some additions (and will get)

heros make good damage but it was on par with warriors BEFORE the 15% damage increase. (and a warrior will have more parries although moose is better). BMs can be quite painful but they're no zerker. champs do hero damage (plus the DD).

if more of your alb armsmen were hybrid slam/slash pole then you'd have more damaging tanks than hib heros since pole styles are better than spear ones.


to the original poster: shh :twak:


Seeing as Midgard is suppose to be the melee realm its f***ing unbelievable that a hero can tank as well as a warrior or should I say be as versatile if not more

And Hibs is suppose to be the magic realm, cept they also have melee....


U know what I couldn't give a sh*t I am just gonna enjoy the game and fook this post off

Laters
 
S

shilak

Guest
Lol @ Novamir, Hero's easily outdamage warriors at the moment. Warrior using 2h is 115% of the damage of using 1h, whereas Hero using spear is 145% of the damage of using 1h, not to mention moose which gives them an extra 50% hps, 100% if timed right when IP is up.

Zerker is the Mid equivalent of Alb/Hib polearm classes, has worse defense and better offence when using hamster.

Warriors are the midgard defensive tank, whereas zerkers are the midgard offensive tank. Personally I think warriors should get some skill like moose/hamster that lets them block every melee blow targetted at them from the front for 30s every 30mins, call it Wall of Steel :)
 
J

Jace

Guest
What's up with everyone? Atm the patch is 1.60d, has it not occured to anyone else that just MAYBE other realms might also be looked at and changes made in 1.60 so that when the patch goes live ALL realms have had some love?

Best to wait and see before whining and moaning imo.
 

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