Bad news from GOA about RvR expansion

[Cernos]

From GOA's Friday news:

Upcoming Expansions :
We announced a few weeks ago the first estimated release dates of the next 3 expansion packs on the European servers. These estimations still hold except for the RvR expansion. From what we found in our meetings with Mythic at E3, the free expansion dedicated to RvR will not be released in the US before Trials of Atlantis but after. This means that our estimation of December 2003 for this expansion was incorrect. We are unable to tell you anything more precise at this time, as Mythic hasn't released a released a date for this expansion yet. As of today, here is the preliminary planning :
Foundations (free expansion for « Housing ») : start of academic year 2003
Trials of Atlantis (payable expansion like Shrouded Isles) : first quarter 2004
Free RvR expansion : date of release unknown yet.

So, Mythic have set back the RvR expansion until AFTER their Trials of Atlantis retail expansion !!!

This is terrible news. The stale RvR experience (i.e. milegate ping pong in Emain/Odins/Hadrians and repetitive keep takes) is THE biggest problem facing longevity of the game for many players.

I don't know about you, but I've long been tired with how we have vast PvE zones to explore (which is great) but when it comes to RvR we all crowd onto a few patches of grass the size of postage stamps (Emain, Odins, Hadrians etc) and play the same tired old routine of milegate camping/ping-pong/zerging [delete as applicable] /yawn

If they put this RvR expansion off until after the next retail expansion pack, it means RvR won't substantially change for approximately another 9+ months. This is WAY too long, other games with more sophisticated PvP will come along and grab peoples attention.

What ARE they thinking? It proves to me yet again (as if it was ever in doubt) that Mythic are clueless and don't understand their customer base, many of whom are desparate for an enriched RvR experience. If they have even a shred of sense they would at very least make the next retail expansion a combined PvE and RvR expansion. If you are even slightly interested in the longevity of this game, then lobby Mythic to try and make them see sense.

I'm very bored of the state of RvR already and had pinned all my hopes on this RvR expansion pack. I cannot believe they are setting it back until after the next retail PvE expansion. Yet more PvE fluff and no more RvR content - for me that's the nail in the coffin. Time to find another game I think. DAOC R.I.P.

Cernos
Level 50 Celt Hero, Silver Hand, Hib Prydwen.

 

[Bleeker]

nice uke:

time to look elsewhere methinks

 

[gwyneth-love]

lol o well saves me the trouble of buying ToA ,. ill be in Wow beta then if everything goes as planned

 

[gwyneth-love]

the should get there priorities right . The people leave cause they are bored of rvr not because teh game lacks high player PvE content . Daoc will die out fast with Swg and Wow beta .

 

[gwyneth-love]

And i dont understand whats so hard about making a new rvr zone .. just copy paste 3 portal keeps and make a Zone with some infrastructure .. its not like they can do worse then emain and a new RvR zone where everbody can port 2 will keep me playing some more .

 

[maxgirth]

I thought treaclekins and blackdeath were the new rvr expansion pack?.

 

[pincer]

Nice post Cernos, agree with every bit of that :/

 

[old.Gromnir]

I will go as far as saying this

"Yes RvR could use a make-over"

But when that is said, if the RvR expantion where to be released, say next week. We all know what would happen people would rush to explore the new Zones (which I personaly dosent think will be more then 3 or 4 tops for this RvR expantion). Then after about 3 weeks people will all head back to good old Emain for easy line-of-sight, easy keep takes, and easy zergs. I dont believe that you can change much about RvR as it is, and yet we do not know what this RvR expantion holds ... for all we know it could be the same zones with new siege weapons, harder keeps, and new realm abilities, (which I think sounds more right, then a hole new RvR mini realm) and yet I dont think this will change much.

I think that prydwen will always be the same old Emain/Odin/HW rush to get one keep, farm some RP's in large numbers go home and let your kids how uber leet you just where when you zerged some albions at the mile gate.

 

[klavrynd]

Originally posted by maxgirth
I thought treaclekins and blackdeath were the new rvr expansion pack?.

^^


everyone will be exhilirated to play vs gimped zerks with their chanters ( with the "hey my debuff is harder to resists" nerf ) so no need for the new rvr expansion yet

 

[pudzy]

Dont think I'll still be playing by the time those are released tbh. Unless something drastically changes in rvr, which I cant see happening.

 

[Aoln]

Originally posted by old.Gromnir
I will go as far as saying this

"Yes RvR could use a make-over"

But when that is said, if the RvR expantion where to be released, say next week. We all know what would happen people would rush to explore the new Zones (which I personaly dosent think will be more then 3 or 4 tops for this RvR expantion). Then after about 3 weeks people will all head back to good old Emain for easy line-of-sight, easy keep takes, and easy zergs. I dont believe that you can change much about RvR as it is, and yet we do not know what this RvR expantion holds ... for all we know it could be the same zones with new siege weapons, harder keeps, and new realm abilities, (which I think sounds more right, then a hole new RvR mini realm) and yet I dont think this will change much.

I think that prydwen will always be the same old Emain/Odin/HW rush to get one keep, farm some RP's in large numbers go home and let your kids how uber leet you just where when you zerged some albions at the mile gate.

Who says the RvR expansion will simply be just a new zone? A new zone would be great but still RvR needs something else to keep people in the game.

 

[Ottar]

> just copy paste 3 portal keeps and make a Zone with some infrastructure ..

I wish it was that easy. If simply adding new RvR zones would be enough to dramatically improve RvR, we'd be all happy here as Mythic has actually done it already and even better than that.

First we got DF. Then we got them three connected frontier dungeons.

I think I can pretty much follow their logic in introducing these new RvR zones. And DF being strategically important as the cashmine for all three realms has actually added a nice touch to the game. However, the daily RvR accross all servers is still zerging in Emain, skirmishing/minizerging in Odin's and skirmishing in HW. Availability of new zones to RvR in did not "fix" that.

Now, if they would go ahead and make some more new funky frontier zones available, would that fix the Emain fixation? Don't think so, may indeed have opposite effect. How come? Here's why:

Basically, people go to Emain because there is action there. Lots of people, lots of fighting. Leads to lots of zerging. People who get fed up with zerging go to other places, Odins and HW. Difference with Odins and HW is that there is less people and less action there. Intervals between fights tend to be longer and there is lots of waiting involved.

If Mythic now itroduced, say 3 more frontier zones, what would happen? After initial rush to explore new places, the number of people that go to emain for insta-action would remain the same. The number of people who don't go to emain and prefer to hunt in other zones instead would remain the same, but they would be spread out over much larger territory. That would lead to increase of intervals between fights, more waiting and hunting involved, less action over time. More people would simply go back to Emain.

Ottar

 

[Turamber]

Lots of truth in this thread ... even if new areas for RvR are opened up the game will continue to be dominated by Emain zerging.

As stupid as it sounds people equate Emain with RvR -- somebody left my guild (well, err, I'm not actually playing anymore but its my DAOC spiritual home) saying they wanted to join a "proper" RvR guild - apparently RvRing in the Albion frontier/Odins is "high end game content" which this guy wasn't interested in.

And sadly he's not alone. Too many people equate fun with racking up numbers after the realm point indicator, and I don't see how Mythic can change that without making all three realms a PvP area. And that won't happen because they want to keep the carebear player-base who prefer PvE to PvP.

 

[hangianix]

After this news I'm really curious how many "old" players (who haven't retired yet) will wait till RvR expansion. /random 10 maybe...

 

[old.Gromnir]

Originally posted by Aoln
Who says the RvR expansion will simply be just a new zone? A new zone would be great but still RvR needs something else to keep people in the game.

Read all of my post, before quoting me !!!!

 

[Cavex ElSaviour]

And why is it that only the old players matter? Isnt the state of RvR the way ppl make it? Alot of ppl whine about zerging but go emain anyway, claiming they are only 1 fg. There is more then enough action in odins and HW. And besides those zones there are plenty more under-utilized RvR zones. Do you actually think any other game will improve the minds of ppl to zerg? centurys ago ppl already discovered that huge numbers >> tactics. People always want to win, so they will naturaly join forces to defeat the others.

Like already posted here, a RvR epansion will not change the emain attitude, only a sudden mind change of the players will. Im getting sick and tired of ppl who play the game, whine, bring this game to the ground and keep playing. This way alot of other ppl will get a negative image of the game play. 9 out of ten times I realy enjoy playing daoc. But when i read whines like these i got the feeling that it's only 1 out of 10 time because of the negative thoughts.

If you dont like Zerg, don't go emain, if you don't like daoc, bye.

 

[cHodAX]

Well, I have been around since beta in late 2001 so I have seen a lot of things change but I have also seen class balance take a huge nosedive. For a while now I have been hanging on for the classes to be properly balanced but now I know that is just a pipedream based on Mythic's track record. The only thing stopping me from closing my accounts was the news of the RvR expansion, Foundations and that Atlantis crap are just eyecandy as far as I am concerned. The end game is RvR and it is the one area Mythic cannot seem to get right or even being to address properly. My accounts run out in September and then I will finally be waving DAoC goodbye forever come hell or high water. All that Foundations and Atlantis have to offer is yet more Pve which will make ther other zones even more redudnant that they are now. Who will ever go back to Llyn Barfog when they have another 3 epic areas/dungeons with far superior drops?

 

[Qte Eth]

hmm tbh i am missing their logic..who will buy that atlantis bs anyway?..

 

[Edaudric]

It's your own fault for going to the same place all the time.

 

[mid_Efour]

emain

its cos albs can port there.......
its cos mids can port there.........

and hibs (non existant really) have ages to run and requires effort


emain is the easy option for the dominant realms.

but if u dont like it, stay away tell your mates stay away. lucky we got a "small" server population.

 

[Repent Reloaded]

omg, I thought these expansions where coming out this year within 3 months and it would just about save them, but 2004... and no release date, mark my words 2004 DAoC will not last that long who in the right mind is going to stick around and wait for "expansions" when games like WoW, SWG, MEO etc... is coming out, jesus christ ... why r mythic even bothering ?!
I just payed £8 for another month of DAoC, wish I saw this first... no more now. no more.

 

[Danya]

Mythic have hinted that they will make significant changes to class balance as part of the RvR patch. That said waiting till after ToA is way too long for that sort of thing, it needs to be done sooner rather than later.

 

[old.shotgunstow]

:doh:

 

[Tafaya Anathas]

I think Mythic will lose more money with losing players then they will earn with ToA. It's a stupid tactic imho.

 

[midmaster]

Since nobody will but the expansion, i guess they will end the game after that, hence no RvR expansion at all. They feel it, so they are not bothering to make an effort before they got in in cold hard numbers.

Mythic, no soup for you.

 

[old.Gombur Glodson]

Originally posted by mid_Efour
emain

its cos albs can port there.......
its cos mids can port there.........

and hibs (non existant really) have ages to run and requires effort


emain is the easy option for the dominant realms.

To be honest it is a bit easier/faster to run from DL > emain than from sauvage > HW.


Wouldnt mind more action in HW though, gets kinda boring when you only run into soloers

 

[tris-]

http://www.realmsoftorment.net/about.html

 

[old.Plebo]

I'm hoping they will add some features to RvR that make it more appealing for casual players. Like many other players, I just play for the odd hour a day and not for long stretches.

Currently, this means that I login. Find I have to wait 5-10 mins before I get ported over to an RvR area at the PK. If no-one else has ported over with me, then I may wander over to the mile gate to see whats happening. Usually I don't get there as I get killed by a couple of stealters/assassins, or a fg decides to kill me. I release and then have to wait 10 mins to port over again. Certainly no fun to be had there.

Grouping is more productive, but it still takes a good 30 mins to port over, then get a grp and buff up, then wait for the reloggers/afk people, etc. Then you run to the nearest mg and usually meet an enemy grp. If you get killed, its release and spend another 10 mins waiting to port over, etc.

To make RvR more popular with more DAoC players, they need to eliminate the port times so you can port immediately. I'm sure this has some other implications that will need to be addressed, but at least more people will actually bother going, rather than the smallish amount of the population that currently do.

I'm expecting the RvR expansion to have lots of class tweaks, rather then just new areas. So that classes actually can act the way their classes would and still get a fair share of realm points.

Move away from the nonsense of a stealther walking up to you, hitting you and then disappearing in the middle of a wide open space. How about using terrain to advantage, or more war engines.

 

[old.Glendower]

Yet more of the "dangling carrot" routine.

What a load of crap, but I am not really surprised.

 

[Cavex ElSaviour]

Originally posted by old.Plebo


To make RvR more popular with more DAoC players, they need to eliminate the port times so you can port immediately. I'm sure this has some other implications that will need to be addressed, but at least more people will actually bother going, rather than the smallish amount of the population that currently do.
.

The port time gives you time to find a grp. it also means that grp can come in waves instead of a contstant stream of solo'ers ready to be slaughtered.


But yes, time between ports is too long.