At last...

[Fana]

lmao, can't tell the difference between the two!

Oh yes lmao, rofl, etc etc. I made a mistake, this is the correct link as i had several wikipages open at once and they look kinda alike so i copied teh wrong link. I guess that makes me worthy of some riddicule eh? Seriously...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypercapnia

Oh and if you think the UK's cities are smoggy environments, you're very much mistaken. Just try visiting India, or Mexico, or even LA, and you'll see what smog really is

I dont like in the UK but ive visisted and id say you can build up a pretty nice smog over there as well in your major cities, as can we here in sweden and in pretty much any major city in the world (Or try visiting Malta f.ex. where they still use alot of diesel fule in personal cars, made my throat constantly itch and gave me headaches etc). And what is your point anyway? Its ok as long as people dont fall dead on the streets from oxygen depravation? I would like to avoid lungcancer at age 40 thank you very much.

Note that i am not a "man-made global warming" theory proponent - i just hate emissions because of the way they directly affect us human beings, not how they affect the planet.

 

[leggy]

if we want to jump to conclusions then we fucking well will.

Fine, then don't expect me to clean up the mess when that conclusion turns out to be too high.

 

[Tom]

Yes it does make you worthy of ridicule. If it wasn't for industrialism you'd likely be dead by 40 anyway. Bit of consumption, never mind eh its traditional.

If you hate emissions, then don't be such a hypocrite - throw your computer away, and anything else you own or use that was produced by one of these factors of modern life that are ruining yours so much. Oops, I forgot. You can't do that can you.

 

[nath]

Urm, nowhere did he say that the industrial revolution shouldn't have happened. Don't be absurd, he's merely saying that emissions should be controlled.

 

[Fana]

Yes it does make you worthy of ridicule. If it wasn't for industrialism you'd likely be dead by 40 anyway. Bit of consumption, never mind eh its traditional.

What does industrialism have to do with my copy&paste mistake?

If you hate emissions, then don't be such a hypocrite - throw your computer away, and anything else you own or use that was produced by one of these factors of modern life that are ruining yours so much. Oops, I forgot. You can't do that can you.

And you know im a hypocrite how? You know nothing about my lifestyle as far as i know. I am an anti-consumerist so i buy as little as possible in the way of "stuff". I havent bought any new clothes in years, pretty much the only thing ive bought in recent years have been computer parts to upgrade my machine (instead of throwing it out and buying a new one), i use a bicycle or walk when i want to go somewhere unless i need to move something heavy with me, i pretty much only use electronic downloadable media (so no plastic and paper is used etc).

Besides there are different levels at which you can limit your contribution to the destruction of our enviroment (the enviroment suitable for humans that is - as ive repeatedly stated i have no fears for the planet as such). Sure, i could do more to limit the impact i personaly have but i chose to do as much as i can and still live a semi-comfortable life. If that makes my a hypocrite sure then i guess im a hypocrite, but i certainly do not feel like one. If everyone tried just a little we would all have a much more pleasent enviroment.

 

[Tom]

What does industrialism have to do with my copy&paste mistake?

By ignoring the significant benefits that industrialisation and modern society have brought to life expectancy and overall heath? Whinge all you like about pollutants and smog, but the very things creating that pollution will be the same things that bring you the medicine when you're ill, or bring you the food you need to survive.

And you know im a hypocrite how? You know nothing about my lifestyle as far as i know. I am an anti-consumerist so i buy as little as possible in the way of "stuff". I havent bought any new clothes in years, pretty much the only thing ive bought in recent years have been computer parts to upgrade my machine (instead of throwing it out and buying a new one), i use a bicycle or walk when i want to go somewhere unless i need to move something heavy with me, i pretty much only use electronic downloadable media (so no plastic and paper is used etc).

Besides there are different levels at which you can limit your contribution to the destruction of our enviroment (the enviroment suitable for humans that is - as ive repeatedly stated i have no fears for the planet as such). Sure, i could do more to limit the impact i personaly have but i chose to do as much as i can and still live a semi-comfortable life. If that makes my a hypocrite sure then i guess im a hypocrite, but i certainly do not feel like one. If everyone tried just a little we would all have a much more pleasent enviroment.

I know enough about your lifestyle to know that you spend money on a computer you don't need, on upgrades that aren't necessary, arguing on forums and wasting energy when you could be out milking cows, using a bicycle made entirely from metal and oil products, the list goes on.

Don't presume to preach to those people who consume more than you do, because anybody living in 3rd world conditions could preach similarly to you. Thats the essence of the greens, "do as I say not as I do". If you don't like industrial emissions, then move somewhere where they don't exist - a mudhut in a rainforest perhaps.

 

[leggy]

I don't understand why Fana is being attacked to be honest. It's like playground insults tm.

I think it's pretty commendable to try to live a lifestyle like Fana is doing when there is no clear benefit to himself (I assume you are male ). He may not be saving the planet but at least he's making an effort. It's a lot more than I have done. I won't generalise with the rest of the forum members but I'd be surprised if the majority thought past their own comfort and existence.

 

[leggy]

Don't presume to preach to those people who consume more than you do, because anybody living in 3rd world conditions could preach similarly to you..

Bollocks. Plain and simple.

It's all about choice. If you have the choice and ability to consume, but choose not to, then I think you are free to state you're beliefs and opinions.

 

[Will]

Bollocks. Plain and simple.

It's all about choice. If you have the choice and ability to consume, but choose not to, then I think you are free to state you're beliefs and opinions.

It appears that if we consume anything, we have to consume everything, or we are hypocrites.

Personally, I'm coming at the whole issue two ways. I strongly believe that climate change is linked to greenhouse gases. But I also believe that we shouldn't waste the remaining oil stocks we have. Its a limited resource, don't waste it. And we should do what we can to improve our enviroment. I like breathing nice clean air, and being able to enjoy outside.

 

[tris-]

I like breathing nice clean air

i go on aeroplanes as much as possible now, its the only place to get it

 

[Fana]

Im going to stop arguing with you Tom as it will lead nowhere but im just going to repeat what I just said: Its about doing *something*, within reason, to try to better the enviroment. Its a no brainer to me that its better for me, for the humans near me, and for the enviroment as a whole if i take my bicycle instead of a car when i want to cross town. It doesnt mean that i will kill myself in the interest of making the enviroment a little better, but that i try to limit my impact on the enviroment as much as i can in my daily modern life. I chose the lesser of different evils whenever i can. It actually does go a long way and the more people that chose the lesser evils the better the world becomes. Its not about going to live in straw huts. Its about buying less, using less and making things alil more difficult than they could be for you personaly, in the interest of all humans.

 

[Tom]

So you're a communist then.

Good luck in your brave new world. You see industry as evil - I see it as beneficial.

Perhaps your next post should be written on the back of dead tree bark with squid ink.

 

[leggy]

With all due respect I think you need to look up the meaning of communist.

 

[Will]

I'm sorry, I've had an irrational attack of giggling. Not ideal when trying to answer the phone in a professional manner.

 

[Xtro]

Tom, are you on something today?

 

[anattic]

So you're a communist then.

There's a Mr Hitler on the phone, he'd like Godwin's Law back...

 

[nath]

Tom who exactly are you arguing with because it seems that you're not paying ANY attention to what Fana is saying. You seem to be inventing things to argue with that have nothing to do with what he's saying.

 

[DaGaffer]

Hmmm, I´d just like to point out that smog in cities (where I think the Tom/Fana bitchslapping started) doesn´t really exist in Western Europe, but particulate emissions do, mainly caused by diesel fuel. And the biggest contribution to diesel emissions in London? Buses and taxis. So much for the brave new world of reduced C02.

As for Fana whining about living in cities and his poor widdle eyes hurting; May I suggest you move? Seriously, cities have always been unhealthy places to live relative to the countryside; What do you fucking expect?

 

[throdgrain]

YET another class FH arguement of youthfull (if misplaced) idealism vs real-life pragmatism.
I have a sneaking suspiscion (pissed cant spell sorry) that the tree-huggers who dont actually know what a tree is will one day rule the western world, and will be outside measuring and weighing our bin bags whilst meanwhile the Chinese and the African nations destroy the last of ozone. No doubt we will have to send them charity via red nose day because they ,simply put, arnt white which means that we must help them as much as we can, quite possibly in an inverted racist fashion It will be the triumph of the beurocratic (told you I was pissed) little man over the spark of invention or originality left in the dying ashes of whatever once made this country great.
I wouldnt be suprised if they allow immgrants more rubbish and greenhouse gases in thier laws, even if they live in Britain, because they arnt used to our special laws.

I tell you what lads, Im coming to the conclusion that this country is FUCKED, and Ill tell you why, its because the tree hugging fantasists with thier tribal tattoos are fast becomeing the establishment, and are so pleased about it ( and suprised too, Im sure) that they are chucking in more and more laws, more and more PC ideals at school level, that they will soon have fucked up an entire generation. And then it will be too late, for me at least.
Im seriously thinking about moving. Or starting a revolution. Or both!

 

[Tom]

I've had enough about arguing over the environment. I'm never going to say another word on it here again, the brick wall is too hard for my forehead.

I've had a very bad day, involving a stranger's car and a very much loved cat.

 

[Wij]

I've had enough about arguing over the environment. I'm never going to say another word on it here again, the brick wall is too hard for my forehead.

I've had a very bad day, involving a stranger's car and a very much loved cat.

Sorry mate

 

[leggy]

I've had enough about arguing over the environment. I'm never going to say another word on it here again, the brick wall is too hard for my forehead

That's what I love about this forum.

It's only a brickwall if it's not your side of the argument.

 

[leggy]

YET another class FH arguement of youthfull (if misplaced) idealism vs real-life pragmatism.
I have a sneaking suspiscion (pissed cant spell sorry) that the tree-huggers who dont actually know what a tree is will one day rule the western world, and will be outside measuring and weighing our bin bags whilst meanwhile the Chinese and the African nations destroy the last of ozone. No doubt we will have to send them charity via red nose day because they ,simply put, arnt white which means that we must help them as much as we can, quite possibly in an inverted racist fashion It will be the triumph of the beurocratic (told you I was pissed) little man over the spark of invention or originality left in the dying ashes of whatever once made this country great.
I wouldnt be suprised if they allow immgrants more rubbish and greenhouse gases in thier laws, even if they live in Britain, because they arnt used to our special laws.

I tell you what lads, Im coming to the conclusion that this country is FUCKED, and Ill tell you why, its because the tree hugging fantasists with thier tribal tattoos are fast becomeing the establishment, and are so pleased about it ( and suprised too, Im sure) that they are chucking in more and more laws, more and more PC ideals at school level, that they will soon have fucked up an entire generation. And then it will be too late, for me at least.
Im seriously thinking about moving. Or starting a revolution. Or both!

I bet your like Hunt from life on mars in real life

 

[Xtro]

Would you like a vol-au-vent throdders?

 

[throdgrain]

I dont even know what a vol-au-vont is.

And Im certainly not putting my car keys in no pot!!

 

[rynnor]

Back on topic - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/6460635.stm

Climate scientists who think their colleagues are 'sexing up' the science for the media and to get big grants - these guys are rightly worried about the backlash once the dire predictions of doom unravel...

 

[Will]

A lot of the sexing up is also due to the way the media interpets the scientific reports. I remember one recently, wich predicted a range of possible change, depending on various factors, between 2C and 8C, most likely somewhere in the middle. Front page of the Metro (quality journalism at the best of times) was about the 8C predicted change.

 

[DaGaffer]

A lot of the sexing up is also due to the way the media interpets the scientific reports. I remember one recently, wich predicted a range of possible change, depending on various factors, between 2C and 8C, most likely somewhere in the middle. Front page of the Metro (quality journalism at the best of times) was about the 8C predicted change.

Yeah, but in all honesty, what do you expect? Give a journalist a range of possibilities and they're always going to go for the one that shifts the most papers; and the scientists/pressure groups know this. I read the BBC article about those guys expressing concern about this as well, and unfortunately they come across as desperately naive. Good scientists no doubt, but this whole thing isn't about science anymore, its about jumping on the environmental gravy train (or should that be lentil soup rickshaw?) and riding it till the wheels fall off.

 

[rynnor]

A lot of the sexing up is also due to the way the media interpets the scientific reports. I remember one recently, wich predicted a range of possible change, depending on various factors, between 2C and 8C, most likely somewhere in the middle. Front page of the Metro (quality journalism at the best of times) was about the 8C predicted change.

That article is about other climate scientists doing the exaggeration though not the media - they specifically mention the American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS).

 

[rynnor]

I read the BBC article about those guys expressing concern about this as well, and unfortunately they come across as desperately naive.

They are worried because they realise that the public have been whipped up into such a state that if something apocalyptic doesnt happen they are really going to be dis-appointed and the funding for climate research could just dry up overnight.

The whole thing reminds me of the internet bubble - lots of talk with little basis in reality - eventually the science will stand or fall on its own merits - not because the media likes end of the world stories.

Also where is the science in releasing a prediction with a range of 100-400% - if you cant predict it means that your model is flawed.