Army Demands An Apology From Daily Mirror

[DaGaffer]

They reckon they've identified the actual truck in the pictures and it has never left Britain...http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3702139.stm

If the Army can actually prove the pictures are fake, and prove that the Mirror knew it (much harder I know), what would be the penalty for Piers Morgan? Is it treason?

Its interesting the language the Mirror use in their rebuttal of the Army's statement: The Mirror said it remained "absolutely confident that those pictures accurately illustrate a serious abuse of a detainee by members of the Queen's Lancashire Regiment". (my italics). Very careful choice of words there; not, you'll note, "...are pictures of a serious abuse of a detainee by members of the Queen's Lancashire Regiment".

I'm sure abuse has gone on, its sadly inevitable, every army attracts a meathead element, and the British Army is certainly no exception, but does that condone fakery to get the message across?

 

[mr.Blacky]

I live in Holland but I did see the front of one paper saying "we have proof" or something like that. So if they are fake that should be retracted.
As for it being posible, yes it is. Do I think it happend like in the pictures? No, journalist have a tendency to make things worse/spectacular.

Off course my statement aint accurate caus I am not up to date with most things

 

[FuzzyLogic]

If they are fake i find that fairly sickening in itself really, and, if they did know about the (in)validity of the pictures, Piers Morgan shold be punished at a high level.

Newspapers and media in general is an extremely powerful medium, they can literally make or break individuals. Might sound cheesy (and probably inaccurate, arf) to bring it up but Tomorrow never Dies touched on the extreme level of power that media moguls may/can have. Abusing that power is an absolute joke and no better than the Propaganda used by the Axis/Allies during wartime, or any side during any war.

I'd say in my uninformed opinion that the guy is a dick and dirtying an entire organisations name with something that may or may not be fake just to illustrate a point (or sell more papers?) without concrete evidence is no different to pointing the finger at someone in a school playground crying that the bully stamped on their foot without being able to prove it.


That made absolutely no sense but meh

 

[xane]

, what would be the penalty for Piers Morgan? Is it treason?

I would be amazed if Morgan is actually repremanded in some way over this, assuming the pictures are fake that is.

Morgan survived a share dealing scam a few years back, quite a serious one at that, known as a "pump and dump", where the financial column in The Mirror was pimping shares owned by the adviser, and of course Morgan himself.

The Press Complaints Commitee is made up of the newspapers themselves, one of the few self-regulatory bodies in existance today, they have never pushed for any form of severe repremand on any paper during their existance.

Why should Morgan care ? His newspaper has already sold more on the basis of the photos, the money is in the bank.

Newspapers exist to sell newspapers, the concept of reporting accurate news was dropped a long time ago, they bow down as mouthpieces of their respective (and usually foreign) proprietors.

 

[xane]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/628561.stm <- forgot to add links.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/743843.stm

 

[Gef]

I watched that beheading video, that looks REALLY fake, but funnily enough nobody seems to have questioned it..

 

[dysfunction]

I watched that beheading video, that looks REALLY fake, but funnily enough nobody seems to have questioned it..

I suppose there is a small possibility that the americans staged it to reduce the focus of Iraqi abuse...

Although his family seem to know he is dead...

 

[Gef]

Pretty amateur job if it was some government thing, the first 10 frames just look, well, wrong. He may have possibly been dead before they cut off his head which is why it looks weird .. I dont know, and I guess we never will. Still damn sick.

 

[SoWat]

I've watched the whole video (and wish I hadn't). It doesn't look faked at all. Mr Berg is clearly alive and feeling uncomfortable during the interminable speech. He most definitely isn't at the end.

 

[Milkshake]

I'm so irritated by the british media atm. Ok, so we've got the right to free speech, so why the fuck does every single one of them tell the same story from the same angle?

I've not seen many pro-war stories, though I know alot of people who are pro-war, pro-British armed forces and pro-Blair.

If these photos are indeed false, whoever made them should be hung, no question. Treason is the crime, and if those fuckers get away with it while our boys in the gulf suffer in direct retaliation for some of the photos, it's bullshit.

Makes me so fucking angry.

 

[]AC[dRuM]

I suppose there is a small possibility that the americans staged it to reduce the focus of Iraqi abuse...

.. X files moment ... lil green men ...

The video is 100% genuine IMO. Very sad...

 

[fatbusinessman]

If these photos are indeed false, whoever made them should be hung, no question. Treason is the crime, and if those fuckers get away with it while our boys in the gulf suffer in direct retaliation for some of the photos, it's bullshit.

No. Just no. There's a reason we don't enforce the death penalty in this country - because it's sick and barbaric.

 

[Deacan]

I wish i did not view that video

 

[Cdr]

Were you forced to watch it?

I do like it when people go out of their way to find a video of something nasty then proclaim 'Oh thats horrible, wish I didnt watch it'. YOU DIDNT HAVE TO!

Its not like it was advertised as containing bunnies frolicking in the meadows. For christs sake.

What did you think you were going to see? Its a guy having his head cut off - its not going to be nice is it!?

 

[Tom]

No. Just no. There's a reason we don't enforce the death penalty in this country - because it's sick and barbaric.

Death penalty for treason was repealed not so long ago, in the 90's I think.

 

[Deacan]

Umm ok, calm down i did not out my way to watch it, as i was reading the news at cnn.com, and they have a link to it hence i looked it up.

I was not expecting them to show the full monty of the video footage.

 

[Milkshake]

No. Just no. There's a reason we don't enforce the death penalty in this country - because it's sick and barbaric.

But it's ok for British soldiers to be attacked and killed by normally peaceful Iraqis who are looking for revenge for the brutal torturing of their kinsmen.....brutal torturing that has actually been made up and never occured at all?

Burn the liars at the fucking stake. Iraqi's have every right to look for revenge for photos like that, shame they aren't true. British Soldiers do not deserve this, they are doing a job under seriously difficult conditions as it is. When fuckers who are clearly trying to make a quick buck create propaganda that will encite MORE attacks on the Brits in the gulf, well, it makes me sick.

 

[Tom]

Its a question of ethics really, mainly on the part of the Mirror newspaper. They (allegedly) were the ones who said (allegedly) 'No pictures, no story, no money'.

Why offer money for something so important? If I were in such a position of power, I'd be tempted to write a story alleging that abuse was going on, and that certain individuals were unprepared to give evidence of this without being paid in cash. That, in my opinion, would be the right moral ground to stand upon.

 

[mr.Blacky]

Perhaps but photo's still have the aura of being the truth, and photo's sell more newspapers.

 

[yaruar]

But it's ok for British soldiers to be attacked and killed by normally peaceful Iraqis who are looking for revenge for the brutal torturing of their kinsmen.....brutal torturing that has actually been made up and never occured at all?

Burn the liars at the fucking stake. Iraqi's have every right to look for revenge for photos like that, shame they aren't true. British Soldiers do not deserve this, they are doing a job under seriously difficult conditions as it is. When fuckers who are clearly trying to make a quick buck create propaganda that will encite MORE attacks on the Brits in the gulf, well, it makes me sick.

THe thing is, although these were faked there has been systematic torture and abuse of iraqi civilians.

Morgan should possibly swing for this, although he may well have believed the pictures to be genuine, in which case he should hand over the suppliers details to the police. TBH i suspect it was some squaddie trying to make a fast buck having seen the us pictures. Probably made a fair bit too if he sold exclusive rights to the photos.....

But that still doesn't change the fact that these things are actually happening and are documented and reported and then nothing is done about them (i'm still shocked about the american who was convicted of murder in a court martial and got a demotion and a discharge which is in many ways more shocking than the abuse itself.....)

 

[mr.Blacky]

i'm still shocked about the american who was convicted of murder in a court martial and got a demotion and a discharge which is in many ways more shocking than the abuse itself..

I have missed this but I thought it was standard practice that after the court martial there would be civil hearing and then a convinction.

 

[Milkshake]

THe thing is, although these were faked there has been systematic torture and abuse of iraqi civilians.

And you know this for fact? Shit, I didn't know you were in Iraq dude, wow.

Or did you read all this from the newspapers?

Oh, and I don't care about the american case, yes that is documented and a whole different argument. Prove to me that the brits have done anything like that. Get me real info, because the last time I heard anything like that being reported to higher up in the armed forces, it was stamped out with two big black boots from upon high.

 

[Doh_boy]

And you know this for fact? Shit, I didn't know you were in Iraq dude, wow.

Or did you read all this from the newspapers?

Oh, and I don't care about the american case, yes that is documented and a whole different argument. Prove to me that the brits have done anything like that. Get me real info, because the last time I heard anything like that being reported to higher up in the armed forces, it was stamped out with two big black boots from upon high.

From what I heard on the news both amnesty and the red cross told the mod that the treatment of prisoners under the british army wasn't acceptable and gave certain warnings a good few months ago.

 

[SoWat]

Aye, abuses were reported, by the ICC and Amnesty International a while ago (both highly respected organisations).

There's no doubt that the British Army is largely populated by conscientious and professional types, but the very nature of the job must attract a fair few nutters. I'd be very surprised if some abuses haven't occured. That's not to say I believe our forces are 'systematically' handing out beatings and worse.

I'm fully behind our forces (particularly as my brother is out there), but I don't believe we should close our ears to suggestions of abuse... that is after all, what makes us better then the murderers out there (of all nationalities).

I'm still anti-Blair and anti-War though.

 

[ArrrImmaPir8!]

From what I heard on the news both amnesty and the red cross told the mod that the treatment of prisoners under the british army wasn't acceptable and gave certain warnings a good few months ago.

The Sun said our 'boys' were doing a great job and gave away a poster to put in my window to show my support. I think our 'boys' need to get in on some of the American hijinks, we're not even playing horse races on old women yet, such amateurs!

 

[yaruar]

And you know this for fact? Shit, I didn't know you were in Iraq dude, wow.

Or did you read all this from the newspapers?

Oh, and I don't care about the american case, yes that is documented and a whole different argument. Prove to me that the brits have done anything like that. Get me real info, because the last time I heard anything like that being reported to higher up in the armed forces, it was stamped out with two big black boots from upon high.

The Red Cross report implicates british troops in abuse. I don't necessarily trust news sources, i do however put a lot of trust in the Red Cross as an organisation.

 

[Milkshake]

From what I heard on the news both amnesty and the red cross told the mod that the treatment of prisoners under the british army wasn't acceptable and gave certain warnings a good few months ago.

Yep, and as I said, heads were banged together and things were tightened up. And indeed, it was a good few months ago.
And yes, war is abuse really, but I'd be very suprised if the brits were a) doing the things shown in the photos and b) doing the things the americans have been doing.

I'm still anti-Blair and anti-War though.

Hey, don't worry, it's not your fault. As soon as we get a corner of the media who post the other side of the story, you'll probably change your mind.

 

[ArrrImmaPir8!]

Hey, don't worry, it's not your fault. As soon as we get a corner of the media who post the other side of the story, you'll probably change your mind.

LOLOLOL Stupid liberals, they get their opinions from newspapers!

Perhaps your opinions would be viewed with slightly more credibility if you didn't feel the need to insult anyone who disagrees with your political stance?

 

[yaruar]

Yep, and as I said, heads were banged together and things were tightened up. And indeed, it was a good few months ago.
And yes, war is abuse really, but I'd be very suprised if the brits were a) doing the things shown in the photos and b) doing the things the americans have been doing.
.

It was quite a few months ago and currently the top brass are trying to say they never saw it which is why the report was leaked and the details of who it was sent to was leaked too.

 

[SoWat]

Hey, don't worry, it's not your fault. As soon as we get a corner of the media who post the other side of the story, you'll probably change your mind.

Actually, anyone who isn't anti-war, in a general sense, needs their head felt for bumps.

Whether one thinks Blair is sainthood personified or the devil incarnate is another matter (and probably another thread).