Armor for gimps?

Falkins

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Apr 11, 2004
Messages
3
Hello ppl.

This is regarding Mid/Exc.

Someone named Bergatrollet (Pagan Prosperity) made an order on MP studded. He ordered boots, helm, sleeves and leggings.

He gave me 6p for a start, and I began my crafting.
We didn't set a maxprice or anything like that.
So I sat in my cabbon for four straight hours making the armor.
Unfortenly the money wasn't enough, but I had my own little pig with money in it so I took from that.

When I'm done I realised I spent 8.4p on four armor pieces.
Happy done crafting I took my armor to Bergatrollet.

Sending a tell to him that the armor is done and material was estiamated to 8.4p and to get a bit of profit I told him I took 1.6p for those 4 hours I sat in my cabbon. Suddenly, he decided not to pay.

What to do what do to?

Not much I can do, he said bla bla bla bla, and so on.
He said he could get a full suit for 8p, I said you could.
But when you order a suit, you can't expect everything to be allright can you? I have no idea how many retries I did, but I know I spent 8.4p on the armor, and I can't give the armor to him for 6p thinking "oh I made him happy, damn I'm broke". So ofcourse we had our dispute.

calculating the amount of money (10p) for 4/6 items he decided "No way I pay". What can I do? No way I give the armor, who would for 6p and be back at -2p ?. another option was to let him pay 8.4p, but then my 4 hours in my cabbon was gonna be rather wasted. And I agreed to him, not to pay, could live with that.

What about his 6p?
Well, I reasoned like this, I have spent 8.4p just to make armor, so if I keep armor and give him 6p back, wouldn't be fair, would it?
So in my opinion he owned me 2p. So I decided to give back 4p to even it out. But was that okei? Nope.

Don't really know why, he ordered an armor, neither he or me can decide on retries, and normally when you order MP armor, you expect to get it cheap, but sometimes when it comes to MP it can be really expensive too.

So i was thinking, he ordered it, so he have to pay, I mean, if I order anything I have to pay for it, I told him to search for CM, and he couldn't find so he ordered it. Anyway, its hard to know whats reasonable in this case.
But imo a bit of a retard not paying when he ordered it, and then saying exactly what it should cost, whom is he to tell me what it should cost.
And btw, I am the seller he is the buyer, my price goes or I cancel, so I cancelled when he didn't want to pay.

Regarding his 6p, I don't really care, I put down 8.4p to make armor, so I think its fair by taking 2p from him, he took the 4p from me after a lot of nagging and yelling. But why should I care?

So I got 4 parts of MP to sell on my CM now, housenr is 2032 for interested. Got loads of 99% studded too, just come take a look if in need.

Thanks for me, just want this to get out, so you don't take orders from either Netcode Eat or Bergatrollet, try avoiding Pagan Prosperity, not that I hold anything against all of them, but just to make sure you don't happen to get Bergatrollet as a buyer. And other Pagan's don't hate me for this :x.

I don't like to whine, but this is part of my own interest, and for others. Netcode himself is a weird fellah too, saying he has a lot of experience from crafting when he had an AC himself. Well, dunno about that, but his mind is kinda weird.

He will probably whine against me too, about my friend crafted those things. He did it wrong etc, you can't do it in many ways I say. He uses salvage when he crafts, even though I tell him to sell them for faster crafting, but he takes his time and do salvage, whatever you say Netcode, you can't blame him for not selling the items instead of using salvage to make more money, he makes money by salvage as well, instead of buying new arcanium.

Thats it for me, please post your comments.
I might done wrong here, but how would you make the solution?
Would be nice to know.

Thanks all for reading all this.

////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Falkin (lgm AC), Poisina (lgm SC), Healmer, Albnuker, Galtor, Hinte
Midgard, Excalibur
The White Rose Association and Alliance
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
 

Falkins

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Apr 11, 2004
Messages
3
Wrong to mention 2 things

Nevermind Eat, thought he was an Alt of Bergatrollet.
And I want to clear his name.

And my excuse to the guild Pagain too.
Was a bit mad, but wrong to mention the guild.

I can't edit it seems now so had to make a new post.
 

Gorfig

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 11, 2004
Messages
79
well what you told me is that your friend salvage the items and doesnt discount that when he does the another retry.. and i think thats exactly what happend since it doesnt cost 10p for 4 MP studded armor pieces...
 

Netcode

Can't get enough of FH
Joined
Jan 25, 2004
Messages
1,765
For thoose who doesnt know. Netcode aint me its gorfig :p
 

Falkins

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Apr 11, 2004
Messages
3
Not right Gorfig aka Netcode

You can't calc like that when using salvage.
Because when he counts, he counts the money.
He started off with like 9p, 6p from Bergatrollet.
When he salvage, he doesn't have to buy arcanium instead.
He NEVER have to buy more arcanium by using salvage.
and I know, that sylvian thread costs a bit, and by using salvage you only have to buy that. thats why you can calc the money instead.

And both ways, you can calc the money, when you resell you gain money as well. if you started of with 9p and when your done you got 600g left, and barely any materials, you can draw the conclusion of that the armor costs 8.4p. No more not less. Even if you sell the armor, you gain money, and when you do so, you got more. simple math.

So you can't blame on his salvage or no salvage procedure.
Its just simple facts which you have to deal with.
 

Asq

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 14, 2004
Messages
401
Imo you should have informed your customer the moment your spent the 6p. You should have given him the chance to have you stop crafting thus spending more gold. You could have offered him the mp pieces you had at the moment the 6p was spent.

On the other hand, when you get an order for an X number of MP pieces and get an advance in cost paid, both you and costumer know that the final amount of gold due might be higher then the paid 6p. Looking at the number of characters Berga has he would/could/should have known his order could cost more.

Shame neither of you made a more solid and worked out agreement before gold was handed over and crafting started. Would have saved you both some misery.
 

judas

One of Freddy's beloved
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
756
i know a guy who had 273 retries on hes mp shiled >_<
 

Rage

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 8, 2004
Messages
80
Greetings

well aleast agree on if the consignment is Pay-per-try or flat price. If he gave you 6p for 4 MP parts Bergatrollet most likely thought you accepted flat price. If thats the case all loss is on the crafter, but there is also the chance for a big profit. My tip would be never to take money in advance for armor, and only do flat price if you can afford to take a loss, since you might be unlucky. With pay-per-try you allways have your back covered, but ofc the profit will be low if its a big consignment, ín the low hundreds per hour tops.

I strongly recommend using Motogs crafting calculator http://www.aros.net/~fumigatr/daoc/mid_armorcalculator.htm , and keep track of all remakes you make, then you can easilly calculate how much money you can charge for each item.

with regards
Rage
 

Chronictank

FH is my second home
Joined
Jan 21, 2004
Messages
10,133
You should have given him his 6plat tbh
Fault was urs for not setting a cap and asking whether he wanted to craft past 6plat
+ you kept the armour
so in relality he is -2plat not u
Duno why u whining tbh u came out the better you will make money off parts aswell has keeping his 2plat
 

Mattsing

One of Freddy's beloved
Joined
Jan 23, 2004
Messages
163
Chronictank said:
You should have given him his 6plat tbh
Fault was urs for not setting a cap and asking whether he wanted to craft past 6plat
+ you kept the armour
so in relality he is -2plat not u
Duno why u whining tbh u came out the better you will make money off parts aswell has keeping his 2plat

ehh??
its not like he gonne make 8.4 p on CM for the 4 parts... the crafters is not suppose to loose money for helping a m8. If it was a pay per try deal he should pay no matter what.

i would have done like this...

(what i think i will sell the parts for on my CM) + (the money he payed in advance) - (the materiel cost) - (the time spent) = (the money i would pay back to the buyer.)

in this case:

X + 6p - 8.4 - 1.6 = X-4


X = no idea what parts it was and have no idea what MP studded cost today. but if u just for fun say 5p. then i had payed back 1p...


its not the crafter thats unlycky whit many retries its the buyer... and it should not effect the crafter.

This is IF this was a pay per try deal.
 

Fram

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 21, 2004
Messages
70
and ppl wonder why crafters wont take MP orders :touch:
 

Wazowski

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 21, 2004
Messages
358
This is one of the reasons there is so much over prices...

I never take any orders unless i know i get a good profit for it..

Always goes for a price that i set before... If the one that wants the set doesnt have the amount of cash... unlucky for him... then he have to farm or search for another crafter..

I would never ever had given back any of the cash he gave me in advance.

And always take the amount of what its expected to cost in advance +1p...

Sad that ppl dont accept that it cost more than expected.. Its not like we decide what qua we wanna make, if it cost more... pay more... Else if none wanna make orders in the future and u have to skill up a own crafter and thats gonna cost more... :twak:
 

Evok

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Apr 23, 2004
Messages
97
Ive come to another option for mp. The ppls sits with me during whole process. They soon understand how much a pain it is from this xp. They buy all the materials. I get any 99% quality sets and they get any mp.
 

Tallen

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Mar 2, 2004
Messages
3,357
Fram said:
and ppl wonder why crafters wont take MP orders :touch:

Only for guildies now, i wont take any other orders for anything from anyone not in my guild.

Had way too many bad experiences with random orders that i gave-up crafting altogether, only ever pick up my tools if a guildmate needs something.

I know a few other crafters who have gone this route, the time invested compared to the hassle and the tiny profit simply isnt worth the effort, plus i got sick of people trying to haggle when they have ordered a MP item and i refuse to budge on my price.

Some people simply dont seem to comprehend how much top items cost in material and labour (read, boredom).
 

decker

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Dec 24, 2003
Messages
113
Keep armors + money imo atleast that could be the way i make it :p
 

SoulFly

Can't get enough of FH
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
2,803
Sometimes the buyer is an idiot, like in this case.

If you order something, it's obvious that with a bit of bad luck, the money runs out before you've gotten your MP, so prepare to pay more. Ofcourse the crafter could pull a trick and tell that it took more tries than it actually didn't.

Anyway :touch:
 

Spear

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 7, 2004
Messages
77
The way I now craft is to make a set of 99% items in a batch and put them on my CM.
That way you can calculate how much the particular item took and set the price accordingly.
Means you don't need to drop everything and craft for ages when someone requests something and can make money while offline.

If someone wants something specific made I just tell them Ill stick it on my CM in a couple of days.
 

Makarilli

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 17, 2004
Messages
30
There are a couple things you need to do before crafting orders for others to avoid unlucky situations. At least when it involves a larger sum of gold

1. Tell the expected price but also tell it is estimated ( unless you quaranty it and am ready to sit with the bon in case you told too low )
2. Tell your working prize.
For MP guildies I take 10% of the final prize. ( if the guy gives me 6P I first of all take my 600G and store and then use the 5,4P to craft for )
3. For MP or larger orders always demand Pay As You Go.
6P ? ok i craft until I have used them all incl. the salvage % my pay for the time. If I get no MP tough luck. If I get all the MP you are a lucky stud bro and got your MP cheap. When used all the money and not done all the MP ask if he will continue and if so then tell him to deliver some more money.
4. I always ask if I shall keep a 99% just in case.
NEVER EVER use your own money ( again unless you are ready to sit with the bon yourself )
5. If he wont pay more give him the MP you evt. made and trade is off.
6. Demand money on the table before you begin.

This formula of cause demands some trust from the buyer and as crafter you have to be honest to keep your good name. As a buyer check the status of the crafter to insure he is a LGM and preferably I use crafters from own guild or at least from a known guild.

Again, if you know the person you can lower your demands but towards strangers I always try to be as clear as possible and keep my back free
 

Lothandar

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Mar 29, 2004
Messages
1,108
Wazowski said:
Else if none wanna make orders in the future and u have to skill up a own crafter and thats gonna cost more... :twak:


Mp chain legs+boots+gloves+helmet ~ cost of a lgm armorcrafter in midgard.


Yeah sure it's all the customers fault, but I decided to lvl up an acer and tailorer for myself instead of paying 7plats for a stupid gloves. List goes on for rediciolus mp misclebit part (glove,boot oO) prices.
 

Fram

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 21, 2004
Messages
70
Lothandar said:
Mp chain legs+boots+gloves+helmet ~ cost of a lgm armorcrafter in midgard.


Yeah sure it's all the customers fault, but I decided to lvl up an acer and tailorer for myself instead of paying 7plats for a stupid gloves. List goes on for rediciolus mp misclebit part (glove,boot oO) prices.

well there's a good explenation for that, you know :)
When demand is high = prices go up
When demand is low = prices go down
Now with toa demand for MP is very (+very) high so prices go up.
Prices for mp has trippled since toa.
 

Lothandar

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Mar 29, 2004
Messages
1,108
Fram said:
well there's a good explenation for that, you know :)
When demand is high = prices go up
When demand is low = prices go down
Now with toa demand for MP is very (+very) high so prices go up.
Prices for mp has trippled since toa.


Indeed you are right. Thank god I am almost finishing my tailor (950 atm) and then only ac to go which is 500 already.
 

kohen

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jul 12, 2004
Messages
33
aww, I had the same thing happened to me once.

A bard named Mercuria placed an order once for 99% lvl 40-ish armor, I made an estimate and he agreed so I started crafting.
Then I got unlucky on one part (it's too long ago but I think it was 15 retries or so on the legs) wich increased the total price with 40%.

I pm him the order is ready but he refuses to pay, saying 'oh you gave me an estimate and now u tell me this...bla bla bla.' Tried to explain how crafting works and that I wasn't ripping him off but no good.

So after hours of sitting behind my desk pressing a button for nothing, this thing really pissed me off.

He only wanted them for the price estimated but I refused, trew em away and slammed the door as far as taking orders from anyone else then friends.

There's no right in hating them, I can understand those people's reaction on a higher price but these things (unluck due the random quality generator) happen and, again, Mythic is to blame for this in the end. They have to alter the randomness that after a fixed number off retries you do get a 99% or MP no matter what.
(For example a guarantied ! 99% part after 7 retries and a guarantied ! MP after 15 retries)
Because now as a crafter you can by far give a good estimate for 99% or MP stuff. Half of the time I got 99% after 6 tries, but sometimes a lot more, causing price to double or more :(

Once I had 74 tries on MP gloves for a guildie, so after I pm him, he obviously wasn't happy with but after some discussing, he payed but nothing for the time i spend on them.
So again, lots of time wasted behind the forge for nothing + someone else thinking I ripped him off. (Can't blame him for that, I'd feel the same)

Most people think crafters make a lot of money. Some will, but I'm sure most of the crafters don't because for a start, they at least spend 10P+ on LGM, then after they make a few P on some orders they loos it again on some idiot that don't want to pay all the retries.

Anyway, I'm starting to sound like all the other QQ here, so Falkin, I hope you'll get all (or at least some) of the lost money back. I think you did the right thing in keeping 2P from him and (trying) to sell the parts.

To Bergatrollet: I hope you still consider to pay for the things you ordered. Based on my experience, I'm sure you can thrust Falkin, your order DID cost 8.4P. Just pay, I'm sure you'll be uber with it in RVR. Without, you'll suck :p ;)
 

evzy

Can't get enough of FH
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Jan 2, 2004
Messages
2,482
Crafters dont skill up to lgm just so other people can get things for free off of them...
MP orders are pretty vague as to a fixed price and everyone should know what to expect .. anyone who moans about the final cost - don't give em the pieces and keep all the cash imo..
 

Diar

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jun 10, 2004
Messages
194
when I do orders with my fletcher (only BG orders cuz it's only 550 orso) I always have a loss in <a href="http://www.ntsearch.com/search.php?q=money&v=56">money</a>, but I don't mind, cuz it's mostly only like 10-20g, I mean, I have that back in a few mins of stlong anim farming, but then again, I can imagine that making a loss of 2-3p is quite hard to take...

especcially in mid/alb where you don't have stlong anim farming :p

btw, when I order armor/weps from some1 I don't really know, I just tell them a max price, when it's not the quality I wanted when they're at that price, I just take the highest they got for it :)

so if I order 99% and after the money limit I set they only have 98% I just take that instead....

once I was unlucky tho, I ordered AF50 RF armor from some dude, I set a money limit of 350g, once he got there, he actually had the qua I wanted, so I went to pick up the stuff and pay the guy, but when I got there he said: hold a minute, I didn't count in my own 'salary' so it'll come to a total of 500g...
tough luck, I could understand he wanted money for the time spent, but it only took the guy 2 hrs....and 150g for 2 hours of pushing a button? I mean, sheesh...that's a bit much...

so I eventually got the price down to 425g :)

anyways, good luck with the crafting stuff.... ;)
 

Galoma

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 2, 2004
Messages
615
i made an order some time ago for a pally in my alliance... 2 x MP plate items...
first was 20 retrys second and i was pretty happy as its always funneh to hand over cheap crafted stuff, but the second item was 240 retrys... and i was spitting blood in the end... i PMed him when i hit the 100 retrys on the second item, askeing if there was a max price... but he said he needed the stuf and toled me to go on... the total cost (and it was cost price since he was /as +/-2%) was 17,4p...
A bit unlucky he said and payed me 18p (tip 600 g)... Now thats a custumor i like to work for again... even when it all goes to hell, he takes it like a man! and pays his bill! :worthy: :cheers:

PS: still selling a shitload of 99% plate crowns :fluffle:
 

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