Are you religious?

[Chronictank]

In the middle east back in the day prayer was concidered meditation, preoccupying the frontal lobe with routine actions you dont think about,
allowing the rest of your mind the freedom to think about other things and giving it a rest (also described as putting the rest of your mind at peace).
At least for me, that is what praying is

What is meditation according to budhism:

transcending logic and sense perception. Nibbana can thus be defined as that which is experienced when one has achieved ultimate moral and psychological maturation.

If god is omnipotent, and the words in god's book are his words, written down by someone else, why does he contradict himself that much?

How so?
What better way to communicate a "guide book" on life, than to have the target audience to tell their like in a language they will understand.
Also all religion aside, looking at it in a logical way, if someone came from space and stood in front of you in the 14th century would you:
a) run screaming "omg were all going to die"
or
b) stand and have a conversation

 

[Jeremiah]

You don't actually believe that do you ?

Well I'm obviously biased towards miracles since I believe in the Bible, so if God split the Red Sea (which I believe), and raised people from the dead (which I also believe), and provided the power for Jesus to heal lame, blind and diseased people (Yeah, I believe this too) then I'm sure some spontaneous regeneration of limbs isnt out of his league Dont get me wrong, I know this goes against our natural way of thinking, but I believe in a supernatural God.

See... I both believe in God and in science. People always assume that these two beliefs would contradict, but in my view God is the premise and science provides the method to reach him. I dont really believe science will ever prove either way if there is a God or not, or at least enough to form a fact-based conclusion. But to me science points towards and not away from a God - but I know this isnt true for everyone

 

[Sharma]

if someone came from space and stood in front of you in the 14th century would you:
a) run screaming "omg were all going to die"
or
b) stand and have a conversation

I think the person in question would do their best to cover it all up.

If extra terrestrials did happen to openly show themselves to the world, as far as I know it would destroy all basis for religion because as far as I know it's all based on us being the only life in the universe. (Note based on limited understanding)

 

[Chronictank]

it's all based on us being the only life in the universe. (Note based on limited understanding)

not at all

 

[tris-]

One of the main reasons [...]

sorry but i dont accept what you said as an answer.

you say because people want to disproove it, they dont seem as apparent. yet that doesnt answer my question im afraid

 

[Huntingtons]

even if i saw a miracle i wouldn't belive it :/ not as they're described by people here anyway, any miracle unbiological is a fake in my opinion

 

[Chronictank]

Bump for the "your thoughts" thread as this seems to be the one with minimal abuse

 

[Olgaline]

personally i think i fall into a catagory that holds true for alot of europeans,

1. I do not belive in the biblical version of god, yet i dont fully deny the posibility of a greater being, rather i choose to question both the absence and being of a god simultaneously. call me an aithiest with reservations if you will.

2. However, culterally i am a christian, and i live by the christian social code, or rather tradition. and i dout that any european can claim that they havent in times of preasure or unsertianty "prayed to god" it's odd isnt it? we say we dont belive in god so why the hell do we do that ? well it's social conditioning, "it's what you do in a given situation" same holds true, with christmas, marrige, funerals ect and so on. now i know that thier are and will be a few hardcore who's convictions demand then to act one way or the other, but in majority. as a european, you cannot really say your arent christian even if you do not belive in god in the biblical sence,
*replace christian with muslim, hindu, budist ect if needed*

So guess i'd define myself as a well, typical "European Christian".

1. I'm hesitant to accept a god, yet i dont deny him.
2. curch has more become a ceremonial place. babtism, funerals, marrige, easter, ect
3. I live by and accept the christian moral tradition "codex" if you will, be i consiously aware of it or not. or lets rather say that it's buildt around and apon the christian codex.

 

[Olgaline]

Now i know, I'm going to be slammed for the above postulation, but consider a few situations and phrases.

- Oh god please help me get through this,
- God! i hope i get .........
- jesus christ! + ending ....
- bless you "someone sneezes" or thanking someone

i could go on, and same goes for alot of the ceremonial events, i'm willing to postulate that the majority of europeans do it due to tradition and not due to religiouse belifes'

 

[old.Tohtori]

Now i know, I'm going to be slammed for the above postulation, but consider a few situations and phrases.

- Oh god please help me get through this,
- God! i hope i get .........
- jesus christ! + ending ....
- bless you "someone sneezes" or thanking someone

i could go on, and same goes for alot of the ceremonial events, i'm willing to postulate that the majority of english people do it due to tradition and not due to religiouse belifes'

Fixed it.

 

[Gamah]

Religion is a form of control, do what I command or the big boogie man in the sky will get you.

Religion is the law before they could inforce law, unfortunatly it has not died out.

If there is a "god" (god would probably be a higher being, who is far more evolved than us) do you think he would give a shit if you went to a little stone building every week to "worship" him.

 

[Mojo]

Ni'm willing to postulate that the majority of europeans do it due to tradition and not due to religiouse belifes'

I agree as is Christmas, Easter and so on, and they are not just celebrated by white Europeans as tradition either but by many ethnic groups who now live here. Nothing wrong with that IMO, in fact i think the idea that Christmas is so commercial and flexible as to involve all people is great.

(Besides we generally celebrate with coke Santa's and department store reindeer's these days anyhow)

 

[Levin]

2 and i dout that any european can claim that they havent in times of preasure or unsertianty "prayed to god" it's odd isnt it? we say we dont belive in god so why the hell do we do that ?

I think it's because religion, in the context of believing in a higher power, gives people hope where there otherwise is none.

I also think this is why religion is so much stronger in dangerous parts of the world, wether caused by war, famine or other disasters. And it is probably why Europe is no longer very religious... we simply don't "need" it anymore. Should we find ourselves in a day-to-day situation with war, death, loss and no hope you can bet we would once again see a lot more people seeking comfort in prayers and going to church even in Europe.

I'm not particularly religious myself and i never pray or go to church. But if i lived in mortal danger every day, i probably would at least pray (to something.. anything to help me). I guess that makes me a bit of a hypocrite.

I think the de-churchification we experience in Europe is because we see how some priests abuse their positions. Instead of giving comfort, they claim power over people, proclaim religious laws and punish people who do not follow them. If religion was stripped down to just something to give a little strength and hope in bad times - I would be religious.

 

[Marc]

Im catholic, Im not the most devout though, going to church about once a month. I do believe in God, Jesus and all that. Ive also seen first hand the effect faith and belief have on people.

 

[Gamah]

Im catholic, Im not the most devout though, going to church about once a month. I do believe in God, Jesus and all that. Ive also seen first hand the effect faith and belief have on people.

You can see it on the news every day, ANOTHER suicide bombing in iraq anyone?

 

[Jeremiah]

I think the de-churchification we experience in Europe is because we see how some priests abuse their positions. Instead of giving comfort, they claim power over people, proclaim religious laws and punish people who do not follow them. If religion was stripped down to just something to give a little strength and hope in bad times - I would be religious.

I think the main faiths are just what you describe, something to give strength and hope. But as you say, any message about such hope has been twisted so much by the human race over the years that it just turns people off. And yes, some people who have held power in religious circles have a lot of explaining to do, they've corrupted something so positive into something so negative.

 

[Chronictank]

Religion is a form of control, do what I command or the big boogie man in the sky will get you.

Religion is the law before they could inforce law, unfortunatly it has not died out.

Democracy is a form of control, yet you will happily follow it...
I'm sorry but the argument that you dont follow a religion because it contains "rules", for lack of a better word is plain silly
Unless ofc you are a anarchist and dont follow any rules hoping democracy will die, in which case you have a valid point

If there is a "god" (god would probably be a higher being, who is far more evolved than us) do you think he would give a shit if you went to a little stone building every week to "worship" him.

That really depends what you view as the purpose of religion, if its to simply pray to a higher being, your point holds true.
However if said higher being actually had the welfare of a population praying is a very valid way of structuring peoples lives, structure = stability, stability = peace. So if i was the higher being i cant think of a better way of introducing a stable enviroment personally.
This discounting my earlier post that it quite simply could be a form of meditation.

You can see it on the news every day, ANOTHER suicide bombing in iraq anyone?

Blaming religion for fanatics is no more valid than blaming Communism for creating dictators, or blaming patriotism for extremists

 

[tris-]

what are peoples oppinions on how the world might be if religion didnt exist?

 

[Chronictank]

what are peoples oppinions on how the world might be if religion didnt exist?

they would simply replace religion with something else to twist into their goals,
people who want to encite violence will always exist, hell not even hitler cared about religion he simply found a group and vilinised them to further his goals.

 

[old.Tohtori]

what are peoples oppinions on how the world might be if religion didnt exist?

Interesting question really, as then you would have to remove a few other things.

If we assume by religion we mean all worship altogether, from cave drawings to the Great Kablowie.

Have to think about it further, but i think the effects might not be that pleasant, when taking all into consideration.

 

[Gorbachioo]

Chronictank you see things like you want to see them. Which is what all religious people do. If the fuckers who wrote the damn book knew all those things THEN WHY DIDNT THEY SAY IT LIKE IT IS? instead of writing that symbolic crap.

Nothing that you have said so far has proved anything.

 

[Killswitch]

I love the way people say things like "I believe in God because I've seen the amazing power faith has to comfort or help people".

This is important, so listen up..

"JUST BECAUSE BELIEF IN SOMETHING IS COMFORTING DOES NOT MEAN THAT SOMETHING EXISTS!!!"

That little bugbear out of the way, I don't believe in God but I feel that I have good reasons for that. I don't see why religion seems to get carte-blanche in loopy belief. I think the standard example (as used by Richard Dawkins et al) is the Flying Spaghetti Monster. If I believed that the universe and everything in it was created by a Flying Spaghetti Monster, I'd be thought of as a fruitcake. If I told my boss that I couldn't work on Mondays because it was the Pasta Sabbath, I'd be fired!

Somehow, religion avoids all this. We are taught from birth that we must respect people's differing religious beliefs and their right to bring up their children in their religion and so on and so forth, but why? If I wanted to bring up my children in the Flying Spaghetti Monster religion (Pastafarianism?) then my children would probably be taken away from me!

What makes the idea that a man performed miracles, came back to life and is the Son of God somehow protected and sacrosanct, but belief in the Flying Spaghetti Monster is ridiculous? Is there some proof somewhere that one is true and one is false?

People talk about how unlikely it is that life could form spontaneously and that human beings could somehow evolve from some chemicals in a scummy pond. Now, that IS highly unlikely...but is it really less unlikely that a supreme being with ultimate power could be produced from nothing and then create "the heaven and the earth"? Where did He come from?

I've got a load more, but I'll save it for the pub. I'm a practicing athiest and I'm actively involved in spreading Atheism...you could call me an Evangelist, I guess. Feel free to ask questions

 

[Gamah]

Democracy is a form of control, yet you will happily follow it...
I'm sorry but the argument that you dont follow a religion because it contains "rules", for lack of a better word is plain silly
Unless ofc you are a anarchist and dont follow any rules hoping democracy will die, in which case you have a valid point

I follow "Democracy" because I have no "Realistic" choice. I have a choice if to follow a religion or not.

 

[Levin]

"JUST BECAUSE BELIEF IN SOMETHING IS COMFORTING DOES NOT MEAN THAT SOMETHING EXISTS!!!"
...
I'm a practicing athiest and I'm actively involved in spreading Atheism...you could call me an Evangelist, I guess. Feel free to ask questions

1 x) There's nothing wrong with people being a little supersticious if it helps them get through hard times.

2 x) There's something wrong when they try to shove their beliefs, no matter what it is, down other people's throats.

3 x) That goes for Atheists too.

 

[old.Tohtori]

I believe, 'cause i know i believe and that it makes sense to me.

Simple really, and that's where i leave it. I don't preach, try to convert, try to say "Thou shalt not..." and so forth.


"Why do you believe?"
Because i can.

 

[Olgaline]

Fixed it.

I'm not english :/

 

[old.Tohtori]

I'm not english :/

Well, should've explained a bit more. Meant that those sayings only work in an english country. Not many polish/swedish/russian/etc people saying them in daily use.

 

[Gamah]

I'm not english :/

unlucky.

 

[Killswitch]

1 x) There's nothing wrong with people being a little supersticious if it helps them get through hard times.

2 x) There's something wrong when they try to shove their beliefs, no matter what it is, down other people's throats.

3 x) That goes for Atheists too.

1) But that doesn't make those superstitions true. If their beliefs affect others then there is something wrong with it.

2) Depends on your viewpoint I suppose...it's a tricky question really. If you truly believed that your friend/relative was going to spend an eternity in fiery torment, would it be "wrong" to try to save them by convincing them to convert?

3) Conversely, would it be wrong of me to try to convince a Christian parent not to raise their child in the Christian faith? Do you think it's right that a child should be given no choice but to be raised in a divisive enviroment, taught not to question things and generally led towards a very iffy set of morals by vague threats of some bloke watching them all the time?

 

[Killswitch]

I believe, 'cause i know i believe and that it makes sense to me.

Simple really, and that's where i leave it. I don't preach, try to convert, try to say "Thou shalt not..." and so forth.


"Why do you believe?"
Because i can.

Now that's the best kind of religious person. Presumably you're a Christian then? I haven't read the whole thread. I don't know why, I don't imagine we have many Muslims, Buddhists, Sikhs, Odinists or whatever else on these boards. Maybe that's just my prejudice shining through