Are you religious?

[Chronictank]

Now back to the point i made earlier in the post,
i think it is a very significant point in my belief (the clincher if you will), that "converted" me to the beleif there is a god.

Here are some quotes and i will map them to our modern day findings;

Then He turned to the heaven when it was smoke... (Quran, 41:11)

This was in the chapter explaining the origins of the universe,
scientists discovered that stars are formed from clouds of dust aka nebula's
It goes further than this tho

Have not those who disbelieved known that the heavens and the earth were one connected entity, then We separated them?... (Quran, 21:30)

This we didnt find out until the modern century,
the earth and the heavens above are fromed form the same 'smoke' meaning they are a connected entity, they then spread out (seperated) to form the different galaxies.

I'll re-affirm the point with a quote from Dr Alfred Kroner, a german geoscientist from Johannes Gutenberg University when they did the discussion on science and religion

Thinking where Muhammad came from . . . I think it is almost impossible that he could have known about things like the common origin of the universe, because scientists have only found out within the last few years, with very complicated and advanced technological methods, that this is the case.”2 Somebody who did not know something about nuclear physics fourteen hundred years ago could not, I think, be in a position to find out from his own mind, for instance, that the earth and the heavens had the same origin

And to be honest, i agree with the guy it is pretty impossible to see how a guy in the 1400's could possibly come to such a conclusion wth no scientific background

going to bed now ><

 

[Ati]

Chronic,

Amasing knowledge.

rep


Your point about the soul never being destroyed just like an energy form is somewhat odd to me.

Every energy form that is emmited can be measured in some form, I do not know how it would be possible to measure ones soul? The soul is more a spiritual essence than an energy form. the Soul is something humans have made to try and comprehend re-incarnation. It may not well exist

I however have a theory that Nothing in this world can be completely destroyed. As you know, everything is made of components as stated earlier in the tread such as atoms quarks etc.

Imagine a huge box of lego, filled with bricks, being the atoms, these bricks can still be re-assembled after they have been broken up.
It is possible that the atoms you are made of and after your physical body meets with the earth you do infact move into another lifeform. Be it a plant, absorbed as nutrients, into a mouse etc.

This is where the form of re-incarnation is realistic to me, though reincarnation as an entire being is somewhat daunting and really odd to me.

 

[Samaroon|Terracotta]

For Allah!

 

[Huntingtons]

With religion, there are wars.
Without, there is nothing to strive towards? What the fuck is the point in life, to become worm food? (no dis-respect)

isnt that the idea of christianity in some parts? the passage recited when a person is burried (ashes to ashes).
to me there is no point in "life" as such. to me there's a point in living. life is meaningless. living is full of meaning though

 

[Huntingtons]

Now back to the point i made earlier in the post,
i think it is a very significant point in my belief (the clincher if you will), that "converted" me to the beleif there is a god.

Here are some quotes and i will map them to our modern day findings;


This was in the chapter explaining the origins of the universe,
scientists discovered that stars are formed from clouds of dust aka nebula's
It goes further than this tho

This we didnt find out until the modern century,
the earth and the heavens above are fromed form the same 'smoke' meaning they are a connected entity, they then spread out (seperated) to form the different galaxies.

I'll re-affirm the point with a quote from Dr Alfred Kroner, a german geoscientist from Johannes Gutenberg University when they did the discussion on science and religion


And to be honest, i agree with the guy it is pretty impossible to see how a guy in the 1400's could possibly come to such a conclusion wth no scientific background

going to bed now ><

what does it prove? sure, stars are made from nebula's. but planets arent. its a coincedence that he wrote that what he wrote. i cannot prove it, but neither can you :/ so we're at the same ground. it convinced you, i wont convince me

 

[old.Tohtori]

Basicly, i believe in viking ways. It's more of a way of life then a "belief" system.

No i don't go raping and pillaging german and english countries....'cause i can't...it's against this "law" thing they have...*mumbles*

But vikings wouldn't anyway.

Few things(not all) i live by, and i'm not quoting a 100%:

Blood is always thicker: No matter what happens, family is family. Say you're out of town for years, and your wife has a kid, you raise it like your own.

Defence is only acceptable offence. This is rather simple,attack and be retaliated. Otherwise, you're cool and i'm cool.

Leave me be, i leave you be. I've spoken about this earlier. You can smoke pot, shoot junk, be a nazi, eat babies for breakfast...just don't force anything on me and i'll let you do whatever the f*ck you want and still treat as a friend if you deserve it.

Just a few. I do "pray"(meaning more for help or a thankyou FOR help), so to say, to viking gods, but not on a daily basis. But it's silent, no fuz, and mostly to Odin. Who probably is the same dude that's in the bible, after reading some rather interesting chapters from that book.

About religion/praying/stuff like that...leave me be and i'll leave you be

 

[DocWolfe]

Chronic... those quotations could be interpreted anyway you like to be honest.

 

[Ezteq]

interesting thing on tv last night about elephants (on before torchwood) and because they recognise the bones of other dead elephants and (it was so sad they found the bones of the old matriarch and they were all touching and sniffing the bones and all really quiet and respectful, seemed sad tbh)a few other behavioural traits the massai warriors believe them to be the only animal with a soul.

in catholisism they dont believe any animal has a soul and when they die they just float up and join god.

now im not religious and rebel at he idea of believing in any god but i do recognise the probability of the existance of a soul, it happens when you watch people die, you see one minute lights are on and then bam theyre out and its an instantanious transformation that comes over them its amazing tbh the difference from live to dead is something you have to see to believe.

and i happen to think that every thing living has to have a soul because with out that well your just a lump of concrete, like i said earlier i dont go about believeing in stuff i just hold that feeling, and i also dont think humans have a superior soul to animals... we are animals lol i think we have a different type of soul but im pretty sure that doesnt make it better.

 

[Heta]

If everyone have a unique soul, and they are recycled. How does it work then the population increases?

I for one don't believe in and of the bullshit religion preaches.

 

[Alliandre]

Believe in a God, what have you got to loose?

Logic. Survival. Would you put your 1/100000000000th chance of "going to heaven" before your chance to stay my hand if I was over you with a sword threatening you to denounce your religion? (not that I'd do that *cough*)

Thinking through this could make you avoid the sticky situations your line of thought could leave you in at moments such as that.

In relation to Immanual Kant showing us the physics of our solar system, I can just point back to chance. Scientists widely agree that the universe is an infinite expanse of "space". If this is the case, an infinite amount of things could happen within that space. Every possible thing has a significantly high chance of happening at that one time. Some place in the universe there could be a planet where human like beings have been evolving for trillions of years. They could have 37 planets orbiting in harmony around their three suns, creating an even more incredible, and physically complex solar system. Maybe we are just games to the Gods (see a Futurama episode. It was funny, but the concept behind it was possible). If I was God, I would have created this world so much better than it is. As a human, my abilities are slightly diminished, but I can still sure as hell try.

instead initiated the biological process between the very aparent gap which appears when you research the void science cant at the moment fill between homo sapian and human

Religion has a long history of filling in gaps. What I can't believe is that a God came along, feeling abit sorry for us being dumb, and sped up the evolution process, suddenly making us overpowered. It seems more the kind of thing a game developer working for a MMORPG would do. Why not do it to cows? I can't just accept the "God works in mysterious ways" (though judging your arguements so far, I really doubt you'd say that ). I want to back up why with logic.

Then He turned to the heaven when it was smoke... (Quran, 41:11)

It does sound suspicously close to what happened. I'd like to know a little more on what's surrounding the quote. It's context could be very useful. In that form though, it does seem like something/someone has told him before time how the earth was made, though the only reason God would tell us (or Muhammed) such is because he wanted us to believe in him. If I was powerful enough to create worlds, I wouldn't care about whether humans believed in me. I could just make more humans. I could go and do something else. Why would a God pay so much attention to us? And does the Qu'ran say that God made us in his own form? Or is that a new thing added to Genesis?

Have not those who disbelieved known that the heavens and the earth were one connected entity, then We separated them?... (Quran, 21:30)

So heaven is a nebula of gas? If this is the case, we would be able to monitor the leaving of the energy that is our souls, heading off towards "heaven". What I think happens is that the energy in our body just dissipates. Without the brain to control our vital organs, we can not hold the balance that keeps us alive.

Energy has no mass, its non-physical, it cannot be seen yet it is there.

Energy can be measured. Energy is measured. If the soul was energy, how could we not measure it? Even "pure energy" has been measured. If it hasn't, how could scientists know that it exists? It must be something we can't measure as of yet, so it can't be energy as we know it.

Leave me be, i leave you be. I've spoken about this earlier. You can smoke pot, shoot junk, be a nazi, eat babies for breakfast...just don't force anything on me and i'll let you do whatever the f*ck you want and still treat as a friend if you deserve it.

This kind of morality shown in man scares the living shit out of me. If you was walking down the road, and you saw someone beating me up, you would let them continue, even if you knew it was in your power to stop them? Even if you knew that they had just attacked me for no reason?

I know you say you're not quoting 100% the philosophy you follow, but letting people eat babies? If this view was common, would you even have reached 7 years old? Basic survival argues against this sort of anarchical society.

 

[noblok]

The baggage associated with every religion in existence? Crusades, fatwahs, jihads, holocausts, suppression of truth, murder of innocents, torture?

Blaming religion for the holocaust is just silly. The religious people were the victims there, not the perpetrators. It was nationalism and racism which caused the holocaust, not religion. Torture and murder of innocent people isn't limited to religion either. Robbespierre anyone?

I'm also very doubtful whether the crusades (and jihads) were solely religiously inspired, but there have been plenty of wars which had nothing to do with religion as well. I know many people say most wars are inspired by religion. I don't believe this untill they back up their statements with some reliable statistics (also, see here).

Edit: and the suppression of truth only needs one word: communism.

 

[Darzil]

I've never quite understood the argument that life developing without a higher power is really, really unlikely (especially with recent discoveries of life on earth in really hostile environments, including ones with no oxygen, water or sunlight). Particularly when the alternative is a higher power capable of creating life developing in the same universe first.

My main concern about many organised religions (not all) is that as well as teaching some very good morals, they also teach that you should believe religious leaders without questioning them. This leads to people not questioning other stuff too, and eventually you end up with easily led sheep, and potential for disaster.

On the soul aspect, I've got to say that most of the times I've seen the soul invoked it's as a way of explaining why we are different to animals, when the simple alternative is that we are pretty much the same, we just haven't learned to communicate that well with them yet (and visa versa). I don't need to consider myself anything other than an animal to have pride in myself, but some need a difference, and to feel superior.

I think the best world view I've come across is "Ethical Hedonism", which pretty much translates as 'do what you want as long as it doesn't harm others'.

Darzi

 

[Heta]

I've never quite understood the argument that life developing without a higher power is really

I've never quite understood the argument that life developing with a higher power is really,

 

[Chronictank]

For Allah!

try reading my first post please, this is nothing to do with islam as a religion simply scrutinising a religious text in a ditatched manner. If you cant grasp a concept as simple as this i dont see how someone can have a intelligent debate with you on the matter. I'm sorry if this sounds like a flame but its not often a descent discussion point pops up here it would be nice if it wasnt locked

what does it prove? sure, stars are made from nebula's. but planets arent. its a coincedence that he wrote that what he wrote. i cannot prove it, but neither can you :/ so we're at the same ground. it convinced you, i wont convince me

I am not trying to convince you, simply putting my point of view forward
Tbh the same could be said about almost anything, there is inevitably going to be a "language" gap, because the text was written a long time ago (think old english and modern english for example), i am reading it as i interperate it and so should you ^^ This is exactly why the qu'ran is such a great example to analyse critically because then you dont get someone elses interpreation of it, you get your own

I would like you to keep in mind all the time that the wording and language used is inteded to educate someone who doesnt even grasp the concept of the universe (as it was at the time) of concepts we are only really understand a fraction of today. I think i made a mistake above about using a nebula as an example (it was late and i was thinking off the top of my head), but you are wrong in the sense that planets arent formed from matter from a "cloud" or "debris",
quote from about.com

The standard model of planet formation holds that the spinning disk of matter, called a protoplanetary disk, that surrounds a young star gradually congeals into masses that form the cores of planets. That process was thought to take a million years or so, and then the giants gradually accumulate their large gaseous envelopes over perhaps another 1 million to 10 million years.

In the qu'ran there are also theories for Time Dilation, General Relativity, Pulsars and Black Holes, Wormholes (Length Contraction), Dark Matter and Gravitational Lensing, Dark Energy, Redshifting and Expanding Universe
i could get some quotes and justifications through modern theory for you but i dont feel i have the knowledge to explicitly argue the points other than in general so i used a simpler example (the universe) where everybody has at least a basic understanding of it.

In relation to Immanual Kant showing us the physics of our solar system, I can just point back to chance. Scientists widely agree that the universe is an infinite expanse of "space". If this is the case, an infinite amount of things could happen within that space. Every possible thing has a significantly high chance of happening at that one time. Some place in the universe there could be a planet where human like beings have been evolving for trillions of years. They could have 37 planets orbiting in harmony around their three suns, creating an even more incredible, and physically complex solar system. Maybe we are just games to the Gods (see a Futurama episode. It was funny, but the concept behind it was possible). If I was God, I would have created this world so much better than it is. As a human, my abilities are slightly diminished, but I can still sure as hell try.

I think it best to forget "god" in the classical sense, and look at "god" as a more technologically/evoutionarily advanced being rather than a omnipitent force. I bring you back to the nature reserve example, we are not "gods" by any means but we control and shape the enviroment for the animals in it, i think it is similar with god per se, we could have done better, but is it really needed? There is no reference in the qu'ran and (i may be wrong) to'rah that god directly created anything, simply shaped it into what it is today.
It also doesnt say god actually shaped the universe (to my knowledge, going off the top of my head again), only shaped our planet in the sense of helping evolution along. But surely if it is feasible this all happens spontaniously by accident, its also feasible that there could be a external factor initiating it.

Religion has a long history of filling in gaps. What I can't believe is that a God came along, feeling abit sorry for us being dumb, and sped up the evolution process, suddenly making us overpowered. It seems more the kind of thing a game developer working for a MMORPG would do. Why not do it to cows? I can't just accept the "God works in mysterious ways" (though judging your arguements so far, I really doubt you'd say that ). I want to back up why with logic.

Personally (only my opinion) i cant see why it is so mysterious, if some higher power (i dont want to use the word god as people seem to be fixated on it) came to a planet and wanted to help the inhabitants out of instinct and into conciousness wouldnt you pick the most advanced "animal" at the time (natural selection if you will)?
In the case of the earth it has been proven to be homo sapians, as reptiles, birds and fishes at the time had little in the form of brainpower

It does sound suspicously close to what happened. I'd like to know a little more on what's surrounding the quote. It's context could be very useful. In that form though, it does seem like something/someone has told him before time how the earth was made, though the only reason God would tell us (or Muhammed) such is because he wanted us to believe in him. If I was powerful enough to create worlds, I wouldn't care about whether humans believed in me. I could just make more humans. I could go and do something else. Why would a God pay so much attention to us? And does the Qu'ran say that God made us in his own form? Or is that a new thing added to Genesis?

Ill be honest i dont know, to my knowledge it doesnt say he made us in his form but gave us "(a) soul, conciousness and free will" similar to his

So heaven is a nebula of gas? If this is the case, we would be able to monitor the leaving of the energy that is our souls, heading off towards "heaven". What I think happens is that the energy in our body just dissipates. Without the brain to control our vital organs, we can not hold the balance that keeps us alive.

Heaven in the context of the quote refers to space, a direct quote would mean "the sky above", in Arabic heaven in the classical sense is reffered to as Jannah which is a synonym of the word for "Gardens of Paradise"

Energy can be measured. Energy is measured. If the soul was energy, how could we not measure it? Even "pure energy" has been measured. If it hasn't, how could scientists know that it exists? It must be something we can't measure as of yet, so it can't be energy as we know it.

We probably could measure it if we knew how , at the moment we cant even measure the mass of black matter and we know it exists.
Depending if you believe in it or not, ghosts are believed to be aparitions of the human "soul"/"essence call it what you will which hasnt quite gone where it is supposed to, Ghosts have been scientifically proven to exist yet we have no real way of measuring them
i found this interesting article;
http://www.zerotime.com/ghosts/science.htm
Perhaps i am going a litte outside the scope of the discussion

To the "religion is bad" etc etc crew;
this is a dicussion about the validity of religion not the effects of it so please stay on topic before this turns into another flame war like the last 100 threads it degraded into

Edit: Sorry forgot the full quote of the paragraph

"Then He turned to heaven when it was smoke. In two days He determined them as seven heavens and revealed, in every heaven, its own mandate."

Source: http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/sina40712.htm
(The Qur'an, 41:12)

 

[Chronictank]

The full quote on the paragraph is

"the heavens and the earth were joined together as one unit, before We clove them asunder"
"It is He Who created the night and the day, and the sun and the moon; all (the celestial bodies) swim along, each in its rounded course" (21:30 -21:33).

 

[Roalith]

Those things are not caused by the religions, just the people at the heads of them.

I didn't say they were caused by the religion. They are, however, still baggage associated with those religions

To me, Christianity is the largest joke of a religion out of the whole bunch. The various convocations of the Church both in the early centuries AD and in the middle ages to 'choose' the gospels out of the 200+ available, and force the acceptance of those gospels on others... bearing in mind these gospels were written by men about a man - is frankly ridiculous. If you're going to accept one gospel over another as the word of god, isn't that a bit presumptuous? Being selective over what you listen to god saying?

In terms of literal truth, there is obviously a bible. In terms of the writings of those original followers of Jesus, there is no such thing as a centralised 'bible'. They all wrote down their thoughts/interpretations/recollections of their time with Jesus, which were of course subsequently mauled, selectively picked out, translated between numerous languages, edited, etc etc ad nauseum throughout the intervening centuries to what we have today.

 

[Dahakon]

I believe in a God, or higher power, or what ever you want to call it.

However what I don't see is why there is this science vs religion debate. The belief in science doesn't mean that you can't also believe in God as well, they are not mutually exclusive. I believe that rather than a "god of the gaps" (which is really continuing the science vs religion debate) that God created, and works through, the laws of science. So when you find out how everything works through science, you not proving God doesn't exist, but rather the way that God did it.

Ask any famous scientist "Does God exist?", know what their answer would be?

"... I don't know!"

If yuo ask the most famous scientist, Einstien, he would say "yes"

The baggage associated with every religion in existence? Crusades, fatwahs, jihads, holocausts, suppression of truth, murder of innocents, torture?

Um this does not apply to all religions, this only comes from the belief that your religion is the only "right" religion and everyone elses is wrong. And anyway, religion is only ever an excuse for a war, rather than a cause, all wars are caused by greed, when you get down to it.

What if the aztec god is the real god?
What if Allah is the real god?
What if Buddha is the real god?
What if Ra is the real god?

Other than the minor point that the Buddha isn't considered a god, they are all the "real" god, all paths lead to god, there is no right one, its just which one works for you, in that life (even if it is atheism =P)

And one thing about the odds of life developing upon Earth, you are all looking at it the wrong way, rather than the planet especally suited to life, rather the life on this planet is especally suited to the planet.

There would be more for me to say, but I have to go off to uni now.

 

[Roalith]

Blaming religion for the holocaust is just silly. The religious people were the victims there, not the perpetrators. It was nationalism and racism which caused the holocaust, not religion. Torture and murder of innocent people isn't limited to religion either. Robbespierre anyone?

I'm also very doubtful whether the crusades (and jihads) were solely religiously inspired, but there have been plenty of wars which had nothing to do with religion as well. I know many people say most wars are inspired by religion. I don't believe this untill they back up their statements with some reliable statistics (also, see here).

Edit: and the suppression of truth only needs one word: communism.

Gah - okay, maybe I could have phrased it better. However, note I did not say that religion caused any of those events; they are, however, baggage associated with their various religions.

And with regard to the Holocaust; nonetheless, religion was an underpinning feature of the National Socialist party. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi#Religion. Whether or not this had an influence on the Holocaust or not is of course open to debate.

 

[Thorondorito]

 

[Svartmetall]

I am a devout atheist.

Religion is at best a crutch, at worst a cancer.

 

[Cerb]

I beleive in god not because im scared of "hell" or because im told to but because i hope to jesus there is something after all this...if not <gulp>...i think the reason we belive in gods is something called anticedant interior grace (SP?) and it is a need we have as humans to belive in a higher power....its just our nature....


i kinda also have a bit to chronicals ideas about y there must have been a helping hand........so darwins theory of evoloution....theres us....before us the "missing link"(thats off topic less talk about that now )...befor that homo whatever...before that...some mammal...before that....dinos(i know im skiping some links here just wanna get back as far as possible quickly)...before that reptiles.....amphibians.......fish.....germs....single celled organisms...................................................................................................................but thats it...what came before that, how did we jump from water and rocks to life..... ask science they cant explian it either.....the jump from no life to life is massive yet science just tells us....well it happened ad while we cant explain why blah blah blah it was factual and whatnot.......this was all explained to me by a teacher i had in RE nd is personally y i beleive...........open to contradictions ofc

 

[Sneakers|Matriarch]

For me it has become brutally obvious that religion in any form is merly an early system of law; made in a time when people started killing eachother due to living to close to one and another.

Some wise guy realized that if you have some kind of "law" that would make ppl not kill eachother then it would be peace and ppl cuold live together.
That "some" would become a needed person amongst his pears and very powerful, since he is the one that knows what "god" / "the law has to say". Here is when the "though shall not kill your next etc etc" and the "though shall not rape and murder your friends wife and children" were made up

As time passed and eras came and went the "law system" had to deal with more and more complicated clashes between ppl, and also ppl started to ask more questions, thus making it to what it is now. An ad-hoc / baised Theory that manages to explain everything and nothing in the univers.

 

[Thorondorito]

Im atheist. And what can I say about beleivers? I respect you as long as you dont pretend to convince me about the 'powers' of someone out there that did blabla or bleble.

I think the reason why you (well, not all, but mostly) beleive is because you need something to evade the dead thoughts. You know, you are afraid about dead and you search for a refuge that calm you, and that is religion.

Thinking "hey, when i die i will go to heaven/hell" or "my soul will reincarnate" is just a way to live and a way to evade that fear.

And no, Chronic, I dont know what you are trying to demostrate with your theories. Seriously, that way, Nostradamus was a prophet... and we all know he wasnt.

 

[Darzil]

I beleive in god not because im scared of "hell" or because im told to but because i hope to jesus there is something after all this...if not <gulp>...i think the reason we belive in gods is something called anticedant interior grace (SP?) and it is a need we have as humans to belive in a higher power....its just our nature....

This is a very natural feeling, it's part of what I think Svart is referring to when he says it's a crutch, something that helps you get through because you're it makes you happier. We all have crutches of one kind or another (boyfriend/girlfriend/parents/friends for many people - something that when taken away knocks you very, very hard).

When you go the next step, and believe stuff like "the next world is more important than this one", so using up the resources and polluting the environment doesn't matter much, or "bomb them all and let god sort out the sinners from the pure", then it's at the cancer stage. Or that it's ok to sin as long as you get forgiveness afterwards, rather than trying to avoid sin in the first place!

Darzil

 

[Sneakers|Matriarch]

amphibians.......fish.....germs....single celled organisms...................................................................................................................but thats it...what came before that, how did we jump from water and rocks to life..... ask science they cant explian it either.....the jump from no life to life is massive yet science just tells us....well it happened

Well, mate diffrence with Sience and religion is that scientists falsify their theories before they present them at all. Explaining in scientific frames what happends between no life and life is not possible if you do not know it, or can exclude other options (falsifying other theories) .
When it comes to religion they have the advance of beeing able to just throw their theories up there, how koo-koo they might seem and how ad-hoc/baised/constructed/impossible to falisfy they are.

Simply put, Religious ppl say god is the missing link and the leap from "rocks and water" to life, in form of single celled oranisms etc.
If a scientist presented a theory that life didn't come from earth but from some other place with a meteor or some other "transporter" not beeing God, he would be laughed and boo'd off stage.

Another interesting thing is that a Religious person would probably immediatly ask the scientist 'if life was brought to earth from an other planet or meteor etc, who did then bring it to the that meteor?'
Ofc that isn't possible to answer in a Scientific way but all you can give is an ad-hoc answer stating that life was brought there by an other meteor, etc etc.
Ask a Religious person who made god and they will merly say that he always been here, like that would be a sane and logic answer...

 

[Chronictank]

And no, Chronic, I dont know what you are trying to demostrate with your theories. Seriously, that way, Nostradamus was a prophet... and we all know he wasnt.

I am demonstrating the fact that he described things he couldnt have known the things he said 1400 years ago, where did he get it from? who knows for sure, but they most defnitely cant have been simple stabs in the dark (unless he was very very very lucky)
I just choose to believe him when he says he got it from a higher power, nothing has as yet been discredited so on what basis are you saying it is wrong?
Also nostradamus made predictions, he didnt give anything of substance, i am describing truths being found in science today, so its not the same thing at all

to svart:
i can scale your exact same argument to democracy but you quite happily follow it, its a set of rules, wars have been faught in its name and because of it

 

[Darzil]

what came before that, how did we jump from water and rocks to life..... ask science they cant explian it either.....the jump from no life to life is massive yet science just tells us....well it happened ad while we cant explain why blah blah blah it was factual and whatnot.......this was all explained to me by a teacher i had in RE nd is personally y i beleive...........open to contradictions ofc

There is some interesting investigations at the moment on that one. Last stuff I read was looking at how certain amino acid chains (I think it was, I'm no biochemist), building blocks of dna, formed naturally when certain elements suspended in water are exposed to sunlight. They were amazed that the basic building blocks formed within days, and started to join up in ways similar to dna (though far, far less complex). The moment one of those can reproduce itself, it'll quickly outstrip chains that cannot, and dominiate. If this all pans out, then it appears that life is far easier to start than previously believed. (The finding of bacteria in places on earth with no water, oxygen or sunlight already kicks various old theories on what is needed to start life, too)

Darzil

 

[Thorondorito]

I am demonstrating the fact that he described things he couldnt have known the things he said 1400 years ago, where did he get it from? who knows for sure, but they most defnitely cant have been simple stabs in the dark (unless he was very very very lucky)
I just choose to believe him when he says he got it from a higher power, nothing has as yet been discredited so on what basis are you saying it is wrong?

to svart:
i can scale your exact same argument to democracy but you quite happily follow it

Why did nostradamus predict some things centuries ago? Was he a 'kind of god' ?

 

[Thorondorito]

Well, mate diffrence with Sience and religion is that scientists falsify their theories before they present them at all. Explaining in scientific frames what happends between no life and life is not possible if you do not know it, or can exclude other options (falsifying other theories) .
When it comes to religion they have the advance of beeing able to just throw their theories up there, how koo-koo they might seem and how ad-hoc/baised/constructed/impossible to falisfy they are.

Simply put, Religious ppl say god is the missing link and the leap from "rocks and water" to life, in form of single celled oranisms etc.
If a scientist presented a theory that life didn't come from earth but from some other place with a meteor or some other "transporter" not beeing God, he would be laughed and boo'd off stage.

Another interesting thing is that a Religious person would probably immediatly ask the scientist 'if life was brought to earth from an other planet or meteor etc, who did then bring it to the that meteor?'
Ofc that isn't possible to answer in a Scientific way but all you can give is an ad-hoc answer stating that life was brought there by an other meteor, etc etc.
Ask a Religious person who made god and they will merly say that he always been here, like that would be a sane and logic answer...

Are you saying science is a lie? Just think for a second what science has given to you and your lifestyle and what religion did.

btw, i am a science defender

 

[Svartmetall]

Why did nostradamus predict some things centuries ago?

I think he needed to get his next bestseller out...