Are the MOBO awards inheritantly racist?

[old.Tohtori]

You can only shout racism if you've been opressed.

All others should shut the f*ck up.

 

[eggy]

and if i wanted a white only day then all fucking hell would break loose.

i can see it now in the papers - "white supremists take alton towers off the black minority".

but but but, i just wanted a white people only day

Good point.

 

[pez]

I was informed by a mod here that posting "F*ck off Kraut. 2 World Wars and still a bunch of arrogant w**kers" was a racist post. This was in response to a German poster who decided to jump into the Portugal v England thread specifically to laugh at the English. Now I accept I was insulting, I accept that I used his nationality (not his race, which I have no idea about) as the basis for the insult, I even accept I broke the FH CoC. But racist? Absolutely not.

It wasn't racism no, i believe the term he should have used was Xenophobic.

Undermining someone because of their nationality or national heritage is just as unpleasant as racism however,

 

[Illtar]

i guess it has to do with some kind of easy defense mechanism.

If someone, let him be white or black did something crap that offended me it would likely go like this:

I tell them i think its moronic what they did, no matter if they are black og white.

problem is possibly if the guy is black he would resort to calling my comment racist, which is infact not the case, becuase my comment was aimed at his act.


I think however in europe we have called this unfactual way of argueing down on ourselves though, by giving the antiracist groups to much influence...

For instance in the 5-8 months old debate there was around certain cartoon drawings in a danish news paper, its pathetic from my point of view, that certain interlectuels can approve that drawings should offend people enough to make death threats and acts of war understandable..

I cant grasp that some people can be so far out into positive special treatment, that they dont condemn acts of war and death threats...

Murdering movie Instructors is not inline with normal reasoning, no matter if you dont like what they make, just becuase your religion says so.

If i invented my own religion that punished wearing sandals with death, it still wouldnt be ok for me to murder everyone that did..


to sum it up.

Tolerance is very important and a good thing.

Overtolerance is as bad as tolerance is good (Allowing obviously unfair things, in the name of tolerance)

 

[Castus]

i think its because, apparently, black people are a minority here. and so it 'obviously' must be harder for them to create good music.

and positive discrimination is always accepted. infact, it wouldnt suprise if the government promoted positive discrimination.



and if i wanted a white only day then all fucking hell would break loose.

i can see it now in the papers - "white supremists take alton towers off the black minority".

but but but, i just wanted a white people only day

I think your confusing a religion with race.Not all muslims are black .If you wanted a Catholic day at Alton Towers the church could just as easily book the place.In todays unfortunate climate of mistrust ,due to terrorism/media representation of muslims ,i think these people would just like to enjoy a day amongst their own without getting weird looks and comments.The fact that suddenly every whiteman would ofc suddenly wnat to use Alton Towers on this day and scream racism is just another fine example of the 'Sun newspaper' society we are sinking into.Live and let live :england:

 

[tris-]

im not confusing anything. someone said it was 'black people' earlier.

 

[Castus]

im not confusing anything. someone said it was 'black people' earlier.

ok so you and they were just wrong.

 

[Yeke]

MOBO awards is a bit of a non issue really its clear its not racist its just awards for people (all race/color/nationality) that sing/create music that has a largley black influence.

As for the rest of the thread I personally feel the balance has gone too far, for an example employing police officers because they are black to meet a certain quota of black people, rather than taking the person who is most suitable for the job (couldnt care less if there black,pink,yellow or white).

Someone mentioned about people that come to live in england refuse to work etc, have to agree with this I lived in rochdale for about a month (yes it was that bad) anyway at the time I was incapacitated due to injury and went along to the job centre I couldnt work and was getting harrased about what I was doing looking for work, it was as I picked up a leaflet on jobseekers allowance that it hit me every leaflet was reproduced in four languages I found myself asking how someone who cannot speak english can claim they are looking for work.

I think there are lots of examples today where officials have pushed things too far in the opposite direction, I dont feel racism is as big of a problem nowadays as it once was and think that if all the fucking poloticions would just let it lie things would be much easier.

 

[Thadius]

You can only shout racism if you've been opressed.

All others should shut the f*ck up.

I have been repressed

Seeing as now if I do anythign to upset someone of a minority, i get my balls chopped off yet a black person can scream White Bastards and get away with it or Muslims can spout racist bollocks about terrorism and get away with it

 

[Ctuchik]

And 3 white girls in underwear singing George Fornby cover versions would sell?

depends where they have the underwear i suppose. 1 in each hand and i'd watch them

 

[Chronictank]

I have been repressed

Seeing as now if I do anythign to upset someone of a minority, i get my balls chopped off yet a black person can scream White Bastards and get away with it

No they cant..
you just dont complain about it, they do. If went into the police station and said you were being racially targetted and abused i can garuntee that something will be done about it, the fact of the matter is you would rather sit here and whine to people who cant do anything about it than address the issue.

or Muslims can spout racist bollocks about terrorism and get away with it

no... they cant
Same again if noone complains about it to the relevant people, nothing happens.
Proof that a "mulsim cant spout racist bollocks", the dude with a hook got deported for it.

There are some worryingly deluded people in this forums who have diffuclulty distinguishing between race and religion

 

[Bracken]

Undermining someone because of their nationality or national heritage is just as unpleasant as racism however,

Er no. Centuries old rivalries between nationalities that give rise to insults (albeit stereotypical and cheap ones) are very different to insults stemming from a history of oppression and racism.

A Scot saying that he dislikes the English and wants them to lose to Trinidad has a very different ring to a racist saying he dislikes blacks and wants Trinidad to lose to Sweden. And that's the thing - by jumping on the pc bandwagon that any kind of rivalry-based insult is either racism or as bad as racism you demonstrate a lack of understanding of what racism really is and in so doing simply compound the problem.

 

[Outlander]

the dude with a hook got deported for it.

he was stirring up trouble for ages though, cos of pc politics it took a lifetime for action to be able to be taken. and yea alot of it comes down to those who complain and those who dont

 

[Everz]

No they cant..
you just dont complain about it, they do. If went into the police station and said you were being racially targetted and abused i can garuntee that something will be done about it, the fact of the matter is you would rather sit here and whine to people who cant do anything about it than address the issue.


no... they cant
Same again if noone complains about it to the relevant people, nothing happens.
Proof that a "mulsim cant spout racist bollocks", the dude with a hook got deported for it.

There are some worryingly deluded people in this forums who have diffuclulty distinguishing between race and religion

you living in the same country i am?

 

[Castus]

you living in the same country i am?

From the sound of things i`d say not.Chronics from good old blighty, from the tone of your posts i`d say you live in goold old Alabama or someotehr redneck hick part of the world.

 

[Corran]

no... they cant
Same again if noone complains about it to the relevant people, nothing happens.
Proof that a "mulsim cant spout racist bollocks", the dude with a hook got deported for it.

There are some worryingly deluded people in this forums who have diffuclulty distinguishing between race and religion

Thing is, the major point to this case was not the racist line he was pulling,but it was the fact he was supporting and inciting people to commit terrorist acts which enabled them to force deportation on him. Shame they didnt stick him on a flight on his own, then the pilot bail out at 30'000 feet and then we get to watch as the plane plummeted into the side of a mountain

(p.s. Nothing to do with race or religion before you mods go sulking, it to do with the fact this guy is simply a wanker that wants to make other people commit mass murder for the sake of it.)

 

[Hawkwind]

Thing is, the major point to this case was not the racist line he was pulling,but it was the fact he was supporting and inciting people to commit terrorist acts which enabled them to force deportation on him. Shame they didnt stick him on a flight on his own, then the pilot bail out at 30'000 feet and then we get to watch as the plane plummeted into the side of a mountain

(p.s. Nothing to do with race or religion before you mods go sulking, it to do with the fact this guy is simply a wanker that wants to make other people commit mass murder for the sake of it.)

Why waste a perfectly good aircraft, even a B737 would cost 20 mill USD brand new. The government should have sent that wanker on a scheduled flight back to his country of origin, Yemen. Where he could have been tried by his own people under Sharia law. The law they so desperately are trying to get recognised in the UK.

Giving him to the US was a cop out. Too bloody scared to do anything about it ourselves. Shows what a spineless lot our government are.

The war on terrorism is a war that will not be won. Bush and Blair are seriously deranged if they think it can be. Only one side is fighting a war, the other side are just reacting with police like actions.

 

[Zede]

On topic : the MoBo Awards


Music of Black Origin.

dictionary.com for "origin" :

"The point at which something comes into existence or from which it derives or is derived."

Its a well known fact that "rock and roll" is music of black origin, shit its THE most important music of Black origin in the history of the planet.

Is it because rock n roll is not "black" any more that its not included in the show ? Rock and Roll was invented and first performed by black people, a long with all the other genres in the American South in early part of the 20th C.

Its shows like Mobo that almost make it "not acceptable" to listen to Rock N Roll Music, ( if your black) hell, its not covered in the awards, my black peers say to me every year its "not cool" to listen to rock n roll ?

I guess black people dont form rock bands, Mobo dont help the situation


Its a contradiction - the title of the show, ie using the word " Origin " is wrong.

 

[Chronictank]

Its a contradiction - the title of the show, ie using the word " Origin " is wrong.

actually no, as the title doesn't imply its awards for all music of black origin, so they are pretty well within their rights to limit it to a subset. Unfair maybe, remotely racist... no
It still doesn't change the fact that a non-black artist can win the award, therefore how can they be remotely racist?
2004 - Best Jazz Act Jamie Cullum

Spoiler

 

[Zede]

actually no, as the title doesn't imply its awards for all music of black origin, so they are pretty well within their rights to limit it to a subset. Unfair maybe, remotely racist... no
It still doesn't change the fact that a non-black artist can win the award, therefore how can they be remotely racist?
2004 - Best Jazz Act Jamie Cullum

Spoiler

nar they just exclude any music of black origin that isnt " hip" or "cool" to black people. Dont see no award or mention of house music or techno, which most definitely is 100% black in origin and is massive worldwide, oh so is rock and roll, oh yes whites like it alot too, best no include that.

The BBC have sorta renamed black music to " Urban" which is a good idea. Music has no colour, music is just music.

 

[Chronictank]

nar they just exclude any music of black origin that isnt " hip" or "cool" to black people. Dont see no award or mention of house music or techno, which most definitely is 100% black in origin and is massive worldwide, oh so is rock and roll, oh yes whites like it alot too, best no include that.

The BBC have sorta renamed black music to " Urban" which is a good idea. Music has no colour, music is just music.

im afraid your looking for something that isnt there mate,
they use popular music of today which happens to be pop, r'n'b, hip-hop and the likes because thats what makes money. You can compain till your blue in the face but rock, techno etc is not the most popular genre's of today,
thye could have added african tribal to the list since it will be predominantly black but its not there as again its not particularly popular.

Not because its "black", but my point still stands eveyr year in at least one catagory there is a non-black artist who wins, if it was true that only a black person could win then there would be no non-black winners would there?

http://www.virgin.net/music/charts/singles/1.html
if you look at the chart 6/10 are within the scope of the mobo awards

 

[pez]

Er no. Centuries old rivalries between nationalities that give rise to insults (albeit stereotypical and cheap ones) are very different to insults stemming from a history of oppression and racism.

A Scot saying that he dislikes the English and wants them to lose to Trinidad has a very different ring to a racist saying he dislikes blacks and wants Trinidad to lose to Sweden. And that's the thing - by jumping on the pc bandwagon that any kind of rivalry-based insult is either racism or as bad as racism you demonstrate a lack of understanding of what racism really is and in so doing simply compound the problem.

I think you're putting Race on a pedastal above other forms of discrimination. Just because it gets more attention than Homophobia/Xenophobia or Religious Discrimination dosen't make it any worse.

If a German guy posted in this thread and you said "Stfu your opinion dosen't count Nazi" that would be ok? but if a black person posted and you said "Stfu your opinion dosen't count Blacky" that wouldn't be ok? Theres no point differentiating, discrimination is discrimination, certain forms should be no more tolerated than others.

 

[Bracken]

I think you're putting Race on a pedastal above other forms of discrimination. Just because it gets more attention than Homophobia/Xenophobia or Religious Discrimination dosen't make it any worse.

If a German guy posted in this thread and you said "Stfu your opinion dosen't count Nazi" that would be ok? but if a black person posted and you said "Stfu your opinion dosen't count Blacky" that wouldn't be ok? Theres no point differentiating, discrimination is discrimination, certain forms should be no more tolerated than others.

First of all, there is a difference between being discriminatory and being insulting . One is about treating people differently to their detriment, the other is about words/actions meant to offend (yes they can be equally problematic, but they are still different - in this instance we're dealing with insults). Secondly neither of the examples you gave would be ok, but there is clearly a difference between the two (I'm surprised you can't see it). The politically correct lack the intellect and understanding of racism to differentiate between an insult based on centuries old national rivalries and one based on a history of oppression and prejudice.

To give an example. During this World Cup in a bar in Germany some England fans were throwing inflatable spitfires at some Germans. I find that pretty funny - as did the German police who were there (they just threw them back at the English and everyone had a laugh). Now imagine if they were throwing bananas at some Ghana fans (a distinct possibility 30 years ago). That would have had very different connotations and would rightly have been dealt with very differently. And yet the pc brigade would take issue with both situations (rather than focussing on the 2nd as they should). People do have rivalries based on nationality - it's in our nature. Trying to deny that is just plain stupid. In heated debates those rivalries often come out as insults. The mature response is to see it for what it is - a cheap, stereotypical shot in the heat of the moment. The stupid response is to equate it to racism, which is far more insidious. And that's the problem with political correctness - it tries to make everybody act like perfect, non-emotive beings and tries to surpress people's inherent feelings. This just causes resentment and a back-lash amongst perfectly reasonable people while completely failing to tackle the real problem.

 

[andeh]

vote BNP

 

[pez]

Its all prejudice, discrimination and insulting people for something they can't help and shouldn''t be insulted for.

I do accept that Racism is a worse form but i also think you should realise that just because you find abusing someone's national identity funny or ok, not everyone does, will or should.

 

[Bracken]

just because you find abusing someone's national identity funny or ok, not everyone does, will or should.

I'll remind you of that should you ever say American's are stupid, the French are arrogant or the Welsh shag sheep. They may be stereotypical, they may be cheap but yes, I find them funny. Does that make me xenophobic? Not in the slightest. My partner is a different nationality to me and I spend alot of time abroad - I just happen to find cheap, nationalistic humour funny. And no I don't expect everyone else to, I do however expect people to engage their brains and get things in context before labelling things racist or even xenophobic.

 

[pez]

xen·o·phobe Audio pronunciation of "xenophobia" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (zn-fb, zn-)
n.

A person unduly fearful or contemptuous of that which is foreign, especially of strangers or foreign peoples.


con·temp·tu·ous Audio pronunciation of "contemptuous" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (kn-tmpch-s)
adj.

Manifesting or feeling contempt; scornful.


I would say you were manifesting contempt and scorn for the german in question. The german being the foreign person mentioned above.

if you do not understand what someone means when they call you xenophobic i hope that helped.

And because your partner is of a different nationality is irrelevant, you could be a white married to and Arab and hate all black people and you would still be racist

 

[Bracken]

xen·o·phobe Audio pronunciation of "xenophobia" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (zn-fb, zn-)
n.

A person unduly fearful or contemptuous of that which is foreign, especially of strangers or foreign peoples.

Jeez do you ever get tired walking round with that poker of correctness up your arse?

I can assure you I'm not "unduly fearful or contemptuous of that which is foreign". Making a cheap and stereotypical jibe at someone does not make someone xenophobic. I know for the pc mafia that's a hard concept to grasp but in the real world of the average bloke on the street he is well able to differentiate. Sometimes people make insults based on other's nationality, it happens - you might not find it amusing but condemning them with the PC Stick of Doom is really just anal and one of the reasons political correctness is such a joke. Besides I've really nothing against the Germans - even if they did bomb our chipshop...


(There was a cheap joke in there...see if you can spot it...)

 

[pez]

I'm actually rather a politically incorrect person as it happens and i do occasionally make racist jokes or jokes about disabled people.

This all started off with me pointing out that the mod used the wrong terminology and that your post was removed or edited or whatever for xenophobic abuse.

The fact that you can't admit that it was in any way unacceptable to some people is just bizarre

 

[Bracken]

I'm actually rather a politically incorrect person as it happens and i do occasionally make racist jokes or jokes about disabled people.

This all started off with me pointing out that the mod used the wrong terminology and that your post was removed or edited or whatever for xenophobic abuse.

The fact that you can't admit that it was in any way unacceptable to some people is just bizarre

Which bit of me saying it was cheap and stereotypical did you miss? It's the idea that it is racist or xenophobic that I rejected. The fact that you took issue with it and said it shouldn't be tolerated, yet readily admit to making racist jokes is what is truly bizarre (not to mention hypocritical).