are alb classes really that bad?

[old.Anarki]

So what? I got used to wedosuckinrvr, and still enjoy my alb char ;p Think i'm not the only one who got used to that Those who didnt quited or changed realm.....

 

[lofff]

subject is, u have the classes and posibilities... u are missing the average skill

 

[Xandax]

Originally posted by lofff
subject is, u have the classes and posibilities... u are missing the average skill

Or the willingness to spec. something away from most damage and maybe into versatility.

 

[old.Odysseus]

those are my conclusions, were they the same as yours?

Not excactly .....

You have a point that more albs should give more RP to the other realms.
However, I do not see that the other realms should thereby gain a larger sum of RP. The single alb may on average have fewer RP than a similar hib, but as there are 1.25 times the number of albs, this should even out.

That albs should have less skill based on a statement saying albs are generally more stupid and less skilled than their hib/mid counterparts seems like a gross generalization. (And I assume ure only half-serious here anyway).

 

[old.Wildfire]

Well.... no.... I was being quite serious...

 

[Novamir]

i was serious, albs moaning about classes being the reason they get beaten in rvr is rubbish (imo)

 

[bf_kate]

Originally posted by lofff
2sorcs+1minstrel+2clerics+1infil+2armsman = kickass albrvr group. (remove 1 sorc and put a pbt theurg if the other is v.good at surviving )

Yes, that would be a great group. Except... damn it's kinda hard to find one sorcerer much less 2 and normally I am the only cleric. This isn't because I am in crap groups, it is just the way it is. Lately I have been the only cleric with no sorcerer several times. And I would go roll a sorcerer except well then my group would have no cleric.

last point:

bards higher insta AEmezz will b 33second, on a 10 min timer, not far from the pb cleric one on a 30sec timer....

Hmmm... except that ours is NOT 33 seconds. You have to spec 23 just for 19 seconds, 34 for 25 seconds and 44 for 30 seconds. 44 in smite? The averange rejuv cleric will have 15-19 second mez. This is for a point blank cast with 200 range on a 5 minute timer. This means that the cleric has to run into a group of enemies and pbaoe and the range is only 200.

A bard can spec for the instant ranged (1500!!!) mez (with the same radius) and still be very viable. If a cleric specs to 44 smite next patch, they are basically gimped.

So the bard gets to stand back in his group and insta mez while the cleric gets to run into a group of hibs and pbaoe. Will he even get a chance before he gets mezzed? If he does, will they then just group purge and slaugter him? I doubt they would waste group purge on a cleric mez

And yes we have sorcerers...except we don't really have many and instant >>>> qc. Even if a sorc does get the qc in next patch, hibs just have to group purge and insta mez. I can't wait!

 

[Danya]

Originally posted by Xandax
Or the willingness to spec. something away from most damage and maybe into versatility.

I think it's more a case of speccing to solo, because people don't feel they can rely on their groups or somesuch. Alb does lack a bit of CC power compaired to mid/hib though, with the CC nerfs that might be less of an issue after the patch of course.

 

[old.chesnor]

On the CC thing...

The problem is CC & Healing on 1 class. On Mid & Hib the CC comes with a healer. Two birds with one stone. In Alb the CC is on a caster, and the main healing class gets an offensive spell line. Go figure.

Any serious exp group on Mid needs a Healer and automagically gets CC. Bards get speedsong, healing and CC, again any exp group will love a bard. Sorcs get mezz, nukes and a pet. Not much for a group there really, considering wizzies and theurgs can CC when push comes to shove.

In RvR, basically the same. EVERY Hib group should have a bard mainly for speed, EVERY Mid group will have a healer because they heal, CC, res, mana regen and are just uber group chars.

And on my time in Alb, most people that play Alb do spec cookie cutter. Like, how many earth theurgs does a realm actually need? And why are there so many PBTers, and so few sorcs? Could it perhaps be that sorcs can't turn PBT on and go afk ? You tell me. Albs on these boards moan about the 'overpowered' manachanters, and conveniently forget they got PBAOE on the ice line of their wizards (90% of whom spec fire). They moan that smite clerics don't heal, then moan 'cos all the smite clerics are going to park their respecced buffbots in atk while they go on a killing spree with their new uber-buffed 50 thrust infiltrator.

 

[old.Odysseus]

OK, all albs are moronic, adolescent kids with no skills whatsoever.

That goes for albs all over the world btw, that is the conclusion I must make.

I think its about time to leave this thread.....

 

[Tigerius]

Body Sorc is a really cool class on paper, I rolled one myself and enjoyed it in PvE alot. Soloing or grouping, felt I could do enough in both. However the problem is that in RvR they only have 1 spell that counts, all other utility worth squat, and they aren't built to deliver that kind of punch and live.

I know Bards complain about their survival rate, if they only knew.

Why do they die? Mainly because they have to present themselves in our front ranks, either that or simply succumb to the idea of your force being mezzed before you are in range. A cloth caster stepping out front and doing a casting animation, how hard does it get to pick em out? Then add that most are Avalonians that as opposed to your Lurikeens and Kobolds stand tall above the rest and can so easily be picked out, and since it's so obvious that there is NO other class they are fitted for you hardly risk going wrong when you pick an avalonian target do you? Is this a choice that we should laugh at the gimped sorcs for making? Not really, it was the choice suggested by the character maker, I don't know it's exact words but it without a doubt states that Avalonians make great Sorcerers and that Britons/Saracens make mediocre/poor ones. Back in the old days many relied on info they got from it. These days we see much more varied race choices due to experienced people knowing better.

They aren't very popular in PvE until 35+, they don't get to live enough to get rewards from their work in RvR, they don't get to use their other cool abilities in RvR, they have more nerfs still coming their way. All this can be debated who bears the responsbility for, but we all know the end outcome.

1 Sorc isn't enough to deal with Group Purge though, grrr.

 

[Qte Eth]

In RvR, basically the same. EVERY Hib group should have a bard mainly for speed, EVERY Mid group will have a healer because they heal, CC, res, mana regen and are just uber group chars.

if u think its easy to get bard u are really really mistaken.And u dont see hib grps in emain wo bard coz hibs know its pointless to go out wo bard .there are always shitloads of bardless ppl in dl who are yelling any bard lfg and dont show their noses in emain coz theyll die in 5 secs,albs go out wo sorc and then whine how they suck.
Healers are not so rare on midgard but also mids will have healer in grp like always or they dont go out.
If there were no alb grps in emain wo sorcs ud prolly kill more and die less.
and if u think bard is uber grp char tell my why many bards forget game when they hit 50 ,or make new class or smth.Coz they cant kill anything and die first like ur sorcs do and that isnt very fun to play for many ppl.Healers cant kill nthing too.Bards&healers are classes that are made for realm sake and albs dont care about anything they do inf or fire wiz to kill everything,mini to solo and never grp ,cleric to smite not to heal ,friar to melee etc..

 

[cerindra]

couple points...

with the class thing, the healer having mez and skald having speed i think helps midgard, infact i know cos i play there, as opposed to minstrels who nearly always solo, or sorc, because..well..there isnt any.

and i should think there will be same amount of minstrels/bards about, but becuase bard is a grouping class its easier to get them..


and on a point that was made earlier, group purge i would put on par with Bunker of faith, it takes ppl's hits on me from 100ish to about 20, but, its bugged - only affects me and not group.
i dont think group purge is?
nice...."mistake" mythic..lol


i dont think any1 can make a generalisation about albs being more stupid, its not as if alb are one nation, and mid are another, every1 is mixed.
i just think the way the classes are set up makes rvr, harder than usual.

and tbh i think any1 saying "we Rulz you stupid albs blah blah" isnt the most intellectual of people.


and sorry gotta put this in...a stupid mid (optical) thought i was a caster today, attacked me and got himself killed....silly mids

 

[old.Wildfire]

Some good points in the last 3 posts though I will question Qte's slandering of fire wizards, without whom alb has no bolts or AE DD's to match those of other realms... of course runemasters and eldritches get the excuse that they were aiming to be group players the whole time because of their PBT/nearsight...

Group purge should just be thrown in the bin and admitted to by mythic for being the huge wrong-doing that it is... either that or give it to the other realms as well, id really appreciate it same for insta AE mezz/stun

 

[Apathy]

Oooh...another random thread diverted into the "Sooooooooorcs! We need sooooooooooorcs!" debate.

~cracks knuckles~

I spent most of yesterday in a group with two lvl sorcs, two minsts, two theurgs, one infil and one cleric.

It was awfully good, helping take back a keep in our frontier with 4 Ellyl Windchasers attacking through walls Hib-style. Mwahaha...nearly got Boo with it. I'll get you one day, slag.

In general RvR, the group was quite good too, unless up against a zerg (Duh.) or if we got split up (Whoops.). I tried to solo a group of 4 lowerlvl (Blue/green and yellow.) Hibs on FS road and got owned twice because I didn't get my charge off on that damn bard when he was on 10hp...

ANYWAY! Sorcerers rock. That's why it is an anagram of "Rocserers". See?

Erm...perfect group...~shrug~...anyone that can rez me is fine.

a.
*

 

[Negura`]

Originally posted by Tigerius
Body Sorc is a really cool class on paper, I rolled one myself and enjoyed it in PvE alot. Soloing or grouping, felt I could do enough in both. However the problem is that in RvR they only have 1 spell that counts, all other utility worth squat, and they aren't built to deliver that kind of punch and live.

I know Bards complain about their survival rate, if they only knew.

Why do they die? Mainly because they have to present themselves in our front ranks, either that or simply succumb to the idea of your force being mezzed before you are in range. A cloth caster stepping out front and doing a casting animation, how hard does it get to pick em out? Then add that most are Avalonians that as opposed to your Lurikeens and Kobolds stand tall above the rest and can so easily be picked out, and since it's so obvious that there is NO other class they are fitted for you hardly risk going wrong when you pick an avalonian target do you? Is this a choice that we should laugh at the gimped sorcs for making? Not really, it was the choice suggested by the character maker, I don't know it's exact words but it without a doubt states that Avalonians make great Sorcerers and that Britons/Saracens make mediocre/poor ones. Back in the old days many relied on info they got from it. These days we see much more varied race choices due to experienced people knowing better.

They aren't very popular in PvE until 35+, they don't get to live enough to get rewards from their work in RvR, they don't get to use their other cool abilities in RvR, they have more nerfs still coming their way. All this can be debated who bears the responsbility for, but we all know the end outcome.

1 Sorc isn't enough to deal with Group Purge though, grrr.

So what is this "ONE" spell that is the only useful bodysorc spell??...... i seem to have 4 full toolbars - all of which i use..... why dont i only have one toolbar, with one spell on it?

Duno how you can think that they only have 1 good spell......

The AE mezz, not a huge radius or huge duration, but in 1fg vs 1fg you dont need long AE mezz..... jus make sure all on one target and by the time the mezz wears off - tehy are all dead anyway.
The Pets - maybe lvl 36-39, but, green con pets still interupt casters very well, allowing you to DD them to your hearts content
Lifetap - one of the most useful spells for you and clerics....... if your in melee with a tank and mezz fails, MoC + Lifetap is just enough to keep you alive, and the tank dead. Also saves cleric power after fights because you can just tap a bit of life off a nearby enemie or a mob
DD - 2.8 second cast time, does the damage and sometimes surprises people at the dmg, they dotn know where to run T_T
Debuffs are never used by most body sorcs, but shud be. When grouping with a wizzard if he has picked a target i will always try and fire/ice debuff his resists.
DoT - great vs SB's so they cant re-stealth

These are just a couple of the spells that body sorcs use/shud use..... not merely one spell.

Regards


Lofff : we shud spend some time together :wub:

 

[old.Odysseus]

Same discussion going on on vnboards:
http://vnboards.ign.com/message.asp?topic=39458209&replies=40

 

[amphetamine]

Hibs wont leave without bards, i know most mids wont leave without a skald and healer, you complain that you cant find sorc, then roll one yourself, there are a hell of alot of minstrels in alb they just choose to join stealth groups for uber rp's, is this mids/hibs fault??

You have a very versitile char in the 48 body 24 mind sorc but once again i hear the "why do that when you can roll a fire wizzy for nukes?" well a fire wizzy dont have a 300 radius mezz and semi decent speed do they

I see most alb groups leaving atk without a sorc and dying fast, if they leave atk without some sort of CC how can hibs/mids be blamed for that?

usually u will find the "better" hibs mid groups have multiple healers/bards, why dont alb guilds roll more sorc instead of infs/minstrels/scouts.

 

[Cowled]

Originally posted by lofff
last point:

bards higher insta AEmezz will b 33second, on a 10 min timer, not far from the pb cleric one on a 30sec timer....

That is a joke rite?

Yes duration is the same.. but

What about range?

Anyway..

Albs got the best Assasin-class, best scout-class, and best tank-class (also the most boring tank-class; armsman).

 

[old.Odysseus]

Albs got the best Assasin-class, best scout-class, and best tank-class (also the most boring tank-class; armsman).

Patch 1.52 givs rangers higher damage than scouts.
Armsman vs. hero?
Infils rox.

 

[feldeshadowbane]

another discussion on the topic (from the US)

http://vnboards.ign.com/message.asp?topic=32257461&replies=345

 

[old.Nol]

wondering about friars, they are the most fun class to play imo, and my friar can easily solo oranges, sometimes reds.

Otherwise I do think Alb is gimped, although, imo you are completely out fo your head if you think bards have a survivability ratio higher then sorc's. All CC classes are the first to go down, end of story.

 

[Trubble]

Originally posted by Novamir


- albion has less skilled players (certain type of person chose to play alb maybe)
- albion has higher population on most servers (and many more level 50s with low RR) meaning the other realms get more RPs
- most albions don't have the first clue about an efficient rvr team
- the best minstrels would rather solo or play in stealth teams than group with average L50 albs
- albs severely underrate the sorc class, or your regular alb is stupid and thinks they don't need sorcs or that they wouldn't make a difference (the only conclusions that i can come to that you don't have enough sorcs)

those are my conclusions, were they the same as yours?

- albion is harder to play because they require more teamwork, meaning more people are learning while few are mastering.
- i agree with your 2nd item, that other realms have more targets to get RP from because alb is most populated
- minstrels can do solo and stealth groups which makes it hard for the usual alb groups to get speed 5
- sorcs are underpopulated in rvr because they are not providing enough fun to make many people want to play them

And that last item is rather important. Its no good to say albs need to roll more Sorcs. Its a game and the class one chooses to play has to be fun, or its kinda pointless to be playing the game at all. Underpopulated classes is a SURE sign that a class is not fun to play for the majority of the players - and only Mythic can deal with that.

The current state of alb is not really that bad, but the point is its going to get worse. Smite clerics are facing huge changes which will cause people to quit their cleric because it is no longer the class they signed up for. That will leave a huge gap in our cleric population untill new clerics starts to emerge. I guess that many of the smite clerics will be sold off and converted to buff bots. I know several clerics who have allready sold their accounts to people who wants a bufbot when /respec comes.

Hibernia will get insta ae mez, and coupled with group purge and stun on casters fighting hibs will be extremely challenging.

Last point is ground target (GT) spells. Both hib and mid will get those spells on popular spell lines, while I dont think we will get many earth wizards in Albion. If you dont know it, on US servers, GT spells just rules and often decides keep fights. GT the door and the attackers will face severe problems getting the door down. GT the relic room / lord room and the defenders will drop like flies. If Albion doesnt get many earth wizzies alb will be heading for hard times in keep/relic fights.

But even though it can be argued that Albion is going to face rough times, the game is not over. I find it odd that many of the good players are leaving albion to roll hibernia or midgaard when the challenge is in the Albion realm. Whimps!

Trubble

 

[Danya]

I wouldn't call void / RC that popular, most elds and RMs will spec out of them into mana/light or darkness due to bolts being utterly useless.

 

[Novamir]

personally i'd find a lot of alb grouping classes very fun to play, and in my top 3 would be minstrel, sorc, and proly smite cleric (but id hate being moaned at to heal )

sorc is a very very nice mage class. first of all you can choose briton, for higher base con. you get baseline lifetap which will do lots of damage, and of course heal. veeshan made painfully good use of this, even at close range in melee it was hard to kill him.

60sec aoe root and 45 sec aoe mez is extremely good CC.

their DDs are among the best in the game.

the pet is a useful tool for interrupting casters and healers

i was almost going to play a sorc on pvp btw, but chose not in the end.

 

[Negura`]

MoC + Lifedrain = dead tank in melee T_T

 

[lofff]

Originally posted by bf_kate


Yes, that would be a great group. Except... damn it's kinda hard to find one sorcerer much less 2 and normally I am the only cleric. This isn't because I am in crap groups, it is just the way it is. Lately I have been the only cleric with no sorcerer several times. And I would go roll a sorcerer except well then my group would have no cleric.



Hmmm... except that ours is NOT 33 seconds. You have to spec 23 just for 19 seconds, 34 for 25 seconds and 44 for 30 seconds. 44 in smite? The averange rejuv cleric will have 15-19 second mez. This is for a point blank cast with 200 range on a 5 minute timer. This means that the cleric has to run into a group of enemies and pbaoe and the range is only 200.

A bard can spec for the instant ranged (1500!!!) mez (with the same radius) and still be very viable. If a cleric specs to 44 smite next patch, they are basically gimped.

So the bard gets to stand back in his group and insta mez while the cleric gets to run into a group of hibs and pbaoe. Will he even get a chance before he gets mezzed? If he does, will they then just group purge and slaugter him? I doubt they would waste group purge on a cleric mez

And yes we have sorcerers...except we don't really have many and instant >>>> qc. Even if a sorc does get the qc in next patch, hibs just have to group purge and insta mez. I can't wait!

U dont have enuff sorcs, agreed, why do u think am rolling (and actually alrdy rvring) my own bard? its not that we have 10 bard-whores singing at ligen waiting for group.

cleric thing

U just broke me babe, i was thinking on 14 27 44 spec

Which should giv sum crappy buffs + good heals + decent instas + curemezz + best pbmezz + decent smithe <---- And no, i dont think smithe is crap nowadays, a cleric specced that way is still a v.good support class BUT with a decent dmg output (ofc, will nevah b the killmachine they were once, that was wrong and fixed) look at droods/healers dmgoutput.... ffs


But still... Bards need to spec to 47music to get that mezz... and 43nurt to get speed5... Guess what else can they do with 1.5x points.
(my uber bard heals for 70!!! most of times)


Also too many ppl slagging on the grouppurge... on a 30 min timer. How can u complain on that but miss the fact that SoS is a semi-grouppurge + uberspeed with 30sec duration? and bunker of faith... well really... u just whine.



ps: negura watch yah hands! i still see the troll inside that sekseh briton. (am refering to ur old char not to the old.veeshan sweety)

 

[bf_kate]

lofff, I know bards aren't common either. But think about it...you get a bard and then you have cc and speed covered (and some limited healing). We need two classes for the same thing and we don't get the healing. Ok so a sorc can do some damage, but honestly, they don't get a chance often. And yes minstrels can also fight a little bit. So you get one char that does two things very well and we get two chars that do one thing very well each. Add in the fact that sorc are so hard to find (nevermind a GOOD one) and minstrels would rather solo or do stealth groups. If I sat at Castle Savauge until I had a group with 2 sorc and a minstrel and another cleric... I would be waiting all night.

Clerics don't get cure mez. It's a mistake on some spell list of Mythics. We don't have it now and there is no current patch with it in, but maybe someday they decide to give it to us. Would be nice.

Maybe speccing for the 30 second mez is viable in this patch, but in the next patch I don't really think it is. You are giving up far too much for something on 5 minute timer. A 27 rejuv cleric maybe "ok" at healing in PvE, but it's nothing compaired to what higher rejuv can do, esp after the healing adjustments next patch. And you are giving up resist buffs and higher buffs in general - for a 30 second pbaoe mez with 200 radius on a 5 minute timer. Sorry but it sounds gimpy to me

 

[old.Astrix]

Just wondering about the Mids/Hibs... Why did you choose Mid/Hib and what char are you playing and why ?

Anyways we all know Albion has less RvR power because Mythic is scared everyone would play Albion. Not much RvR if 75% of the persons on a severs are Albs...

If we do get a PvP server then what char are you guys playing? Want to make a bet on how many Albs versus Hibs or Mids we'll get from this poll ?

 

[old.Kladen]

LOL assianes will be the worst class for PvP. when they are in the open they will get a ass whooping by people who hate assianes like me and many others to stop assianes excelling in PvP and if it makes them run around ALL the time then that serves them right.

ill would keep doing this until assianes are nerfed.

and also i would probably be a merc. coz they are cool.