Archers

[cbh_branwolf]

Well, as some ppl know I play a ranger on Excalibur. But my question is: what does rangers have that is special over the other 2 archer classes???


Scouts: easier spec lines, I mean that they have fewer lines to spec in. Shield/engage.

Hunters: charm pets, soon getting insta-summon pet, speed spell (not sure if this is an interruptable spell), buffs, spear.

Rangers: buffs, CD, speed spell (which is interruptable), self dam add.


What is there that rangers have, that none of the others have, other than the dam add??? And that is pretty useless compared to the rest, since we have to spec pretty high in Pathfinding to get a good one.


I have a suggestion about this, but I'm sure hunters and scouts will disagree, but I think rangers should get x2.1 or x2.2 spec points pr. lvl.



Branwolf ShadowDancer, master ranger of Ithil Galad


Plz.: make this a constructive thread!!!!!!

 

[Aussie-]

they can accept the Hib group invites

 

[Flimgoblin]

comparing the Ranger versus the combined abilities of the Scout + Hunter is a bit off

Oh wait it's a hib class you're meant to do that to make them look even... (wow that was bitter)


Ranger versus scout:

Scout gets shield spec.
Ranger gets buffs + flee spell + celtic dual + damage add

Ranger versus hunter:
Ranger gets longer range bow + damage add + celtic dual
Hunter gets more melee damage + pets.

 

[Tranquil-]

Originally posted by cbh_branwolf


What is there that rangers have, that none of the others have, other than the dam add??? And that is pretty useless compared to the rest, since we have to spec pretty high in Pathfinding to get a good one.


I have a suggestion about this, but I'm sure hunters and scouts will disagree, but I think rangers should get x2.1 or x2.2 spec points pr. lvl.

Rangers get self buffs AND 5.5 speed bows. They will always have high damage/fast drawtimes contra to what hunters or scouts without buffbots do.

TBH I think a melee specced ranger rivals the position of the best archer atm. They get much more back for their specc points when taking melee high compared to scout 1H melee.

Take a peek at www.critshot.com if you don't know about it yet. There's discussion about these things on the forums there.

 

[Hatt]

k

btw when was the last time you played?

 

[old.Nol]

aussie, you're getting bitter again, rather come play and take you aggro out on our greenies...

 

[kameh]

Just to point something out..

Hunters have the highest damage per hit, but they hit so bloody slow that it averages out lower than both rangers and scouts. Only stun style is from the rear of your opponent and the 39 spec anytime style uses up stupid amounts of endurance (shield stun probably does too). Hunters also have lower levels of evade than either scout (evade 3) or ranger (evade 3) and that's with us being the melee realm

The future increases to melee damage and insta pet will take hunters on par damage wise with both scouts and rangers but we'll be a more flexible class (my opinion).

Bow damage for hunters is nothing compared to scouts/rangers but most hunters agree that speed is good and most casters dont last more than 2 arrows after bladeturn is down.

I don't see why rangers need more spec points, they've not been nerfed - hunters were giving the melee damage they should have had since day one. Scouts I dont know enough about to say if they need/what they need but I see them pretty much on par with rangers with the added bonus of shield slam if they spec'd for it.

If you look at realm points for all servers, you'll see both rangers and scouts at the top end of the scale and hunters at the opposite end. Why is this? because rangers and scouts are fine.


Edit: I've never considered Hunters as "gimped" but I'd certainly not say that either the ranger or scout is even after the hunters get a boost. Ranger is best archer, hunter is most flexible, scout.. hmm still not sure about them

BTW: Hunters speed spell is interuptable, someone farts near you and it drops. We also get less buffs than rangers (magic realm so fair enough).

 

[censi]

ATM the 3 archer classes are pretty similiar....

With bows

Scout>Ranger>Hunter

but there isnt a massive amount of difference

in mellee

Scout>hunter>ranger

but there is isnt a massive amount of difference

In solo play (non buffbott for skilled players of course)

Ranger>hunter>scout

but there is isnt a massive amount of difference

The speed boost is a great get out of jail free card....
Shield specc for scouts is gr8, just for the slam...
The hunters insta pet will be gr8 for them soloing (dont wanna whine but its a bit too good really)

Still the main problem playing archer classes is the massive amount of rookie assasins with buffbotts.... They can see you a mile off and they will kill you, PA or no PA, with buffs they will tear you apart....

Ive been saying it for a long long while theres lots of issues with archer classes that need to be addressed.... Most wont be addressed....

PBT and SH are the main ones

The introduction of the See Hidden RA, was the biggest wankiest nerf ever witnessed in DAOC.... It basically excludes Archers from being able to solo by giving the class we are most vulnerable to the ability to locate us from full clip range when stealthed.... Thus encouraging/forcing all us solo players to roll shades....

Camo is worthless, but it proves the Mythic new they had fucked us over with SH. They put in an RA to let assasins own us, then in the next patch they give us a class ability purely designed to counter that RA.... But unfortunetly the timer on Camo makes it worthless...

Remove SH from game, no debait there.... Some shades dont even bother with SH now cuz there so few archer classes around... irony

Mythic have openly declared that they want all classes to be group orientated and have started tweaking the classes to develope this ethos.... Upto now though all they have done is cut the Archer popluation down by over 60% and increase the assasin population but 40%

In grp RVR 99.9% of grps you meet have PBT, and about 50% have synced PBT.....

Even a skilled Archer that positions himself fast and well to unload the arrows finds that he will miss anywhere between 60-80% of the time.....

I think its gonna be 27% base chance to miss. 20% base chance to Fumble. Combine that with PBT and you really can find yourself doing bugger all in some fights....

The only time Archers come into their own is 1 hit crit shotting mezzed mages and rogues.... they can be reasonably deadly there....

If your target is wearing chain, scale or plate.... you might as well not bother shooting it...

I dont think Mythic realise how under powered archers are now when compared to other classes (especially nukers that have a similar role in grps)

I am convinced that they lack real knowledge about class capabilities by the extreme differential in how Archers are now compared to how hard they were when the game started....

So far my counter to all these nerfs has been to make sure I am fully uberfied with capped mellee resists capped str con dex hp and quick (nearly) and awsome weaponary... and good RA's help loads too... With the upcoming SC patch this will all change and all the rookies will have similiar stats and resists to me... this may force my early retirement from the game, but for the time being I am still really enjoying the challenge of playing a ranger...

....and every now and again I actually manage to kill something which makes it all worth while

I hear lots of people moaning about their class deficiencies but only those of you that have chosen an archer class as their main will know how bad things really are for us... but I will not change, enjoyment is still my priority

/whine out

 

[belth]

Mythic and their must-group policy is wanky. WTF is with the evade nerf? Ok, it's too much when an assassin evades 70% in RvR (buffbots anyone?), but applying that cap makes us worse in PvE also...

Ranger>Scout>Hunter at the moment, IMHO. Ranger's the only archer class I'd consider playing and they can be quite dangerous opponents with high enough melee (and some decent CD in there too, none of that wanky 1 CD stuff). Very versatile and lethal 1v1 when played well (/points at Eleasias).

The forth-coming hunters insta-pet is too much, especially with the current bugs... Assassin attacks you, hit insta-pet, command it to attack assassin, hit speed spell and you got a dead assassin with some luck, cause the pet really can't be ignored as it's blue (or been changed? Was blue on reports from Pendragon) and does noticeable damage while the hunter keeps on plinking you at ~2.5s or something with bow. GG.

 

[kameh]

Censi agree mostly with you, not gonna argue

There really isnt much between the archers especially once hunters get a little boost. One thing that does bother me is that neither the ranger or the scout looks that flexible a class to me. You shoot and melee, god I'd die of boredom if I could have a pet now and then.

I'd like to see archer RA's sorted out, has anyone got longshot/volley or arrow salvaging ?

Give longshot to scouts at level 40 as a class ability
Give Volley to Rangers at level 40 too..
Give shapechange to hunters as a once/30mins melee increase

or something

 

[belth]

Originally posted by cbh_branwolf
I have a suggestion about this, but I'm sure hunters and scouts will disagree, but I think rangers should get x2.1 or x2.2 spec points pr. lvl.

Everyone sane will disagree. I'll take 3.0 and speccable x-bow and parry if you get 2.2

 

[Aloca]

Remove SH from game, no debait there.... Some shades dont even bother with SH now cuz there so few archer classes around... irony

some ? i think its now more like 80+% shades that doesnt spec SH. Why? becouse u only get like 1-2kills/time u camp for it. often u c minsers and other archer classes but then they move 2-3 at same time = suicide to kill 1.

 

[kameh]

Originally posted by belth
The forth-coming hunters insta-pet is too much, especially with the current bugs... Assassin attacks you, hit insta-pet, command it to attack assassin, hit speed spell and you got a dead assassin with some luck, cause the pet really can't be ignored as it's blue (or been changed? Was blue on reports from Pendragon) and does noticeable damage while the hunter keeps on plinking you at ~2.5s or something with bow. GG.

You've had that since the game began, it was just near impossible for a hunter to find a blue pet that was tameable. Insta pet just gives us it all the time. I have a pet with me whenever I can, even if it's green. The LOS bugs are meant to be getting fixed by the way and I'll be glad *cough* enchanters *cough* when it does

Expect to see a lot of people complaining about hunters once they get boosted because they cant kill them 100% of the time anymore. Like I said above, hunter is the most flexible archer and pretty much always has been.

 

[old.Attle]

Originally posted by belth

The forth-coming hunters insta-pet is too much, especially with the current bugs... Assassin attacks you, hit insta-pet, command it to attack assassin, hit speed spell and you got a dead assassin with some luck, cause the pet really can't be ignored as it's blue (or been changed? Was blue on reports from Pendragon) and does noticeable damage while the hunter keeps on plinking you at ~2.5s or something with bow. GG.

I'd like to see a hunter running from an assassin who attacks first with speed shout. Unless you didn't know the speed spell is disrupted by all dmg (like poison ticks). Its also disrupted if pet is in combat. Once the pet is poped the speed shout is useless. You can always sprint using all your end, so you cant shoot your bow.

But pet and TS will be quite uber on assassins camping mile gates. But I guess no one will whine about that except 1 or 2 assassins.

 

[Tranquil-]

Censi, why are Scouts better than Rangers bow wise?

Both classes get the same bows, the only differance is the 100 /locs the scout has over the ranger which is nothing and will not win any realistic battles. Ontop of the same bows, the Rangers have self buffs which makes them hit harder and faster than any unbuffed scout with equal bowspec.

 

[censi]

Censi, why are Scouts better than Rangers bow wise?

the only differance is the 100 /locs the scout has over the ranger

theres bugger all difference really, but you answered your own question...

 

[Tranquil-]

Do you rate 100 /loc units over selfbuffs which brings drawtime down?

 

[Aussie-]

dmg add gets nerfed in future patch for rangers (max ~15)
more nerfs :hat: :hat: :hat:

 

[belth]

Originally posted by old.Attle


I'd like to see a hunter running from an assassin who attacks first with speed shout. Unless you didn't know the speed spell is disrupted by all dmg (like poison ticks). Its also disrupted if pet is in combat. Once the pet is poped the speed shout is useless. You can always sprint using all your end, so you cant shoot your bow.

But pet and TS will be quite uber on assassins camping mile gates. But I guess no one will whine about that except 1 or 2 assassins.

Oh I've had my fair share of rangers/hunters speeding away, resisted poisons etc... Haven't fought a hunter for ages that I remember, except some poor chap about a month ago who logged in and had very low stealth, in addition to having bad luck with my evade. Rangers don't tend to run away anymore, more confidence?

The pet wouldn't be anything to pay that much attention except in-combat usable.

I'm more concerned about archers retaining IP and spreadheals generally. Both negate the CS lines purpose extremely well, except on middie groups because 99% of healers are Pac freaks, unless they respec - "oh no my instas radius gets smaller, I'll stay full Pac!".

Anyhow, See Hidden needs to go and make a comeback as something else.

 

[kameh]

Seriously think archers will be pretty balanced soon if they're not already. Depends who gets the jump on who.

sod giving rangers something, nerf stacked PBT

 

[Spamb0t]

(incoming whine!!)
few days ago some infil killed my ranger in 3 hits... i didnt even get to enter combat mode :I like i had any chanse..

and its useless trying to run from an assassin... im most likely both snared and VERY encumbered from stupid strdebuff poison..

ooh and yesterday i shot at some sitting runie and missed 6 arrows in a row before i gave up and ran.. blah owned by pbt.

and and ranger vs scout.. well hmm every time i shoot a scout he engage me - slams me - crits me - kills me... and if he starts at me either i run away and maybe survive or run up to him just to get slammed and then critted and owned :I

 

[kameh]

Purge <-- vital for every class IMO especially archers. Sod the archer RAs most are crap compared to purge

 

[Spamb0t]

bah ill never get purge! such a boring RA......

 

[kameh]

Once assassins lose IP it makes you a lot lot safer though

 

[censi]

Kaor, you can rest in the knowledge that if an assasin killed u in 3 hits (3 part PA chain) he would have been buffed.... also rest in the knowledge that that player couldnt hack it as a solo player without buffs so he will be lacking in a few basic skills....

Soon as assasin appears in front of you rotate left to bugger up his positional PA opener....

Whack out the weaps, Wait for the snare posion to land (dont make mistake of just purging the Lifebain and bleed)

Check your damage, if the PA landed and he is lumping you hard each shot and you are doing bugger all to his health bar, prepare to flee, he is buffed..... run through him pruge and hit sprint.. soon as u are out of range hit speed boost (make sure you aint bleeding b4 u hit it)

If the pa misses and you seem to be doing reasonable damage rotate left and pump the styles... IF you have IP and FA he will probably die or run...

IP FA and Purge, are essential if you wanna play a Ranger... 100% essential.

 

[Spamb0t]

purge.. so boring.. i wont get it :O

and yea i know he was most likely buffed.. and some crit it must have been too..
still most assassins who PA me kill me before the stun from CD is over.. yeye got low resists.. but cba.

 

[Eleasias]

Archers are quite balanced compared to each other yeah... but compared to other classes they are a joke and only getting more nerfed in the future patches... shame I didnt give up that piece of crap ranger earlier. R4L5 hero > R9L1 ranger

 

[kameh]

Sad but true, still I think rangers/scouts will be hit slightly harder with them be more "pure" archer classes than hunter.

 

[TheDubaxter]

Spambot

Spambot, With regards to not getting purge because its boring,
well do I really need to say anything to flame u...

 

[kameh]

Kaor honestly mate I'd say purge is essential for an archer, I respec'd to get it and gave up TS and falcons eye for it. never regretted it and even better now I've got enough rp points for TS again

purge is a life saver as is IP