Archers classed as stealthers??

[old.chesnor]

If the enemy army has assassins with see hidden, by the time the scout is uncovered, the army is spotted Scout has done his job, if he makes it out alive that is a bonus.

In general RvR, the scout in an fg won't give a rat ass about see hidden, as they are at exactly the same disadvantage as enemy archers. Every realm gets the skill, every realm felt the nerf. Whats the problem ? Only the soloers will suffer...

 

[Aussie-]

the army is spotted Scout has done his job

[sarcasm]
yeah, lets go check Hadrians wall ,see some enemies, die and still dont know if enemy is gonna attack a keep or a relic.

/as i've scouted enemies !
[/sarcasm]

 

[old.Atrox]

Mythics idea was to get you grouped up and not RP farming, mission accomplished imho.

What are accomplished ?
the solo ability are gone thats whats accomplished.
You really think a Archer will get grouped easier now just cuz they have a useless specline ?
No
They took away our solo ability, forced us to group, but forgot to give us anything usefull for the group, so we dont get grouped.
Mission NOT accomplished.

And See Hidden onnly reveal Stealthed Archers and Ministrels afaik
So Assasins only have to worry about True Sight.

 

[old.chesnor]

Originally posted by Aussie-


[sarcasm]
yeah, lets go check Hadrians wall ,see some enemies, die and still dont know if enemy is gonna attack a keep or a relic.

/as i've scouted enemies !
[/sarcasm]

You only got 1 Scout in Albion or something ?

(actually if these hysterical moans are anything to go by, there probably will only be one )

]Originally posted by Atrox

You really think a Archer will get grouped easier now just cuz they have a useless specline ?

Atrox, do you really, really, think that stealth is totally useless after See Hidden. I mean totally useless. Of course it isn't, stop being silly.

You are still invisible to most classes, and the only way there will be a swarm of assassins in the frontiers is when the archers who think stealth is totally useless throw teddy out of the pram and roll assassins to prove themselves right, then say TOLD YA SO!

 

[Gimpfarfar]

hehe...

Sheesh... I'm a hunter...and I won't quit for a couple of nerfings... A well played hunter will not suffer much from the nerf bat...nor will any archer class. Sure...our stealth can be revealed if we like stand in the middle of the freaking emain bowl and expect noone to see us. That's just foolish.
Our bow damage get cut a little, but then again we get a realm ability that inreases our bow damage almost up to 100% again.

So, don't delete your archers. Just learn how to play em well, and you'll prolly not feel the nerf bat at all.

Plus, if you rely on your stealth instead of your cunning to keep you alive, you might want to re-think just a tad.

 

[Gimpfarfar]

oops

Forgot 1 thing.

USE FOLIAGE, even when stealthed. Helps, and will help a lot.

 

[old.Atrox]

Yes Stealth will be useless why ?
quick answer:
Infiltrators 682
Shadowblades 471
Nightshades 448

( Ok all of these will not gain See Hidden Ability, but just to give you a number )
----------

After all Assasins are archers worst enemy, the reason you get high stealth as an archer is to get away from other stealthers, 25 - 30 stealth is enough to escape nonstealthers.
So yes, any1 specing highstealth will gimp themselfs.
Mythic made it clear that they do not want Archers to be solo chars, an since stealth is a solo ability, i doubt it will be long b4 they remove it from us.
Camo was just a plain insult toward archers, I sure as hell didnt make a hunter so that I could scout but not attack.
and what I've understood from reading about Camo, it will only "remove" see hidden, that means in order for camo to work good, you need atleast 35+ stealth to avoid detetion from assasins, and camo can only be used 10min after your last combat.
So no archers are not to be played solo anymore, only time hunters may get to do some dmg is at keep defence and MG standoffs, unless we find a groupleader that pitty us and let us join them.
so yea I guess, mision accomplished, if the mission was to make Hunters totaly useless. atleast Scouts and Rangers got the bow dmg, and Rangers the melee skills.

 

[old.Atrox]

Gimpfarfar
the ability to survive will still be there, atleast as long as you dont attack.

 

[Eleasias]

All the hunter melee tests vs rangers on the US Boards are BS, even the one made by Hunter TL Branin (who, btw is an idiot) "Rangers can outmelee hunters easily with same melee spec because of high damage add" ROFL, what bs, they are counting 39 spear spec vs 29 blades 25 cd + *46* pathfinding spec. From what I've read hunter melee hasnt gotten any nerfs and atleast I know it's not "crap" like everyone seems to say, anyone remember Nolby 3-hitting yellow infils? :> On a side note, if you dont have an uber buffbot you're probably off in a proper gank squad (if there are no keep sieges etc) and if I quit it wont be because of See Hidden

 

[old.Atrox]

Elasias it's not the dmg per hit that counts
Attack speed
Evade lvl
are more important, quick attacks means your less affected by a block/evade/miss/fumble.
And you know that a Ranger kill a hunter in melee even if both are melee specced, mainly cuz hunters got worse defence and hit slow as hell, and the pet is not to any use, it doesnt work as a dmg add atm.

 

[old.Nol]

...

Tell you what, try kill something with a bard mate, if I got a kill every 10 minutes I would rubbing myself into a stupor right now. Come see what it's like to run around with a giant frikking NEON banjo strapped to your chest, which basically equates to "SHOOT ME HERE - KTHNX". I can't run around with a weapon drawn to cut crit shot, I have to sit to get mana to rezz people, I have to stop moving to rezz or mezz and you don't need SEE HIDDEN to see me, because I GLOW, I am like Las Vegas on roller skates. Now you get some stick and you are bitching because you can not get a kill everytime you draw your bow?

 

[old.Atrox]

1 big diffrence m8
Bard is a support class
Hunters arent
so I tell you what, you come try mezz, rezz, heal or aoe mezz with Hunter....

 

[belth]

Originally posted by old.Atrox
and the pet is not to any use, it doesnt work as a dmg add atm.

Think Sanya said they never intended hunters to use pets in RvR

 

[old.chesnor]

Originally posted by old.Atrox
Elasias it's not the dmg per hit that counts
Attack speed
Evade lvl
are more important, quick attacks means your less affected by a block/evade/miss/fumble.
And you know that a Ranger kill a hunter in melee even if both are melee specced, mainly cuz hunters got worse defence and hit slow as hell, and the pet is not to any use, it doesnt work as a dmg add atm.

Errr, hasn't it always been this way ? Hunters have only ever had Evade I or II (now). They have always used slow spears, their pets have always sucked. Rangers have always had CD, pierce/slash and PF. There has been no hunter specific nerf, so whats the problem here ?

Also, its ironic. I remember a thread where I got flamed by loads of Hunters telling me exactly why they are useful in PvE because 'they can outdmg tanks'. If you can outdmg tanks, got evade II and are fighting an enemy whose armour has a penalty to your weapon type why should you lose ? Also the frontloaded dmg on hunters spears if not evaded is gonna hurt a ranger badly, and you can still use all those 'I can outdmg tanks' styles, no ?

Sheesh, you want it both ways!

 

[old.Atrox]

I dont think they intended Hunters to be in RvR either
Tbh RvR is the only time I have use of the pet, when ever I find a solo mage, send pet BT gone...

 

[old.Nol]

This hasn't stopped you from killing, it's stopped you from killing any time you feel like it. It's more challenging now, some will rise to the challenge and some won't. How many of you that are bitching about the changes have even been exposed to them in a real in-game scenario?

A friend of a friend of my 3rd friends friend in the states reckons archers get so nerfed in 1.53 that even the tanks with bows are giving up.

I have a USA account and the archers worth their salt are still cooking, they're working harder for their rp's and do not get as much, but they are still up there and extremely valuable in any rvr battle.

 

[old.Atrox]

Chesnor lol plz go back and quote me where I said that Hunters outdmg Tanks
I never said that, all that I was bitching about was selfish a-holes that refused to group with stealthers becuz they would go solo in RvR later on. So plz go back and quote me.

And hunter was supposed to be the best melee archer, they arent I never said it's changed, I never said that they were, so plz again read b4 post
I never said that it was a hunter specific nerf, we were talking about the archer nerfs, but guess what, which class takes the biggest beating from that bat ?

 

[old.Tart]

Hunters are gimped full stop. In my small pityfull opinion u got to be a kobold and u got to still have high stealth.

Please guys, read the american, boards see what the hunters are saying there.

But what i will say, with a 100% Great Duskwood Bow and a 100% Arcanium Battle spear, Ill take my chance, vs most things out there, if I die I die, Its a game, and I jsut come back.

Ohh and you wont find me Solo, ill be with my mate, who has exactly same spec as me when we reach 50.

Hunters have been nerfed, full stop, there is nothing more to say !!!!!

With realm ability, we should get our damage back up to near what it was, and with 100 percent quality weapons, you can hit yellow casters for over 900 Damage (if u get past the blade turn). And yer before you ask, this is buffed with an Aug shammy.

Ohh and If you want to go out as a hunter and RvR either get another account, and make yourself a Buff Bot or find a friendly mate......

GOA / MYTHIC Its simple you make me want to uke: Hunters nerf complete.

Ohh and if we do group, with other peeps, its still as bad, as the other peeps will say, Ohh look at that bloke with that Spear / Bow lets go get some nice easy RP`s.

And as for infiltrators NightShades etc etc etc, when I see nicolas and co take down a lvl 50 Thane and a lvl 50 Skald in about 2 hits, without me even seeing him. I suggest get out the NERF..............but i expect, they buffed by druids.

Nuff said I think

 

[old.Atrox]

Nol it took away 1 of the reason i roled a hunter, the solo ability, Hunters are not a group char, and will probably never be, so I rather reroll a group needing char.

 

[Talifer]

Originally posted by old.Atrox
Yes Stealth will be useless why ?
quick answer:
Infiltrators 682
Shadowblades 471
Nightshades 448

( Ok all of these will not gain See Hidden Ability, but just to give you a number )
----------

Haha you can say that again, I'll tell you how many can actually get See Hidden

Infiltrator 56
Nightshade 31
Shadowblade 45


That's quite a bit of difference.

And personally I like having Scouts in the group, even if they are not stealthed and scouting. They are not and will not become useless, their roles will just change. The archer is a nice addition to a group because they can do great damage from behind the tank line without lighting up the sky with blinding colours. They can eliminate healers and casters from range to make the tanks more effective while being a damn site hardier than casters. They can lure enemy groups who think they are soloing into an ambush.

There's a difference between going from uber to average than the average to useless most people seem to think is happening.


Talifer

 

[old.Atrox]

Why use a archer for ranged attacks ?
ok they can take alittle more hits then a mage, and they are not spotted as easly as a mage in a crowd.
but other than that, mages attacks can get resisted, and redused in dmg by resists while archers attacks can; Blocked ( engage ), Evaded, they have to switch arrows for a better perfomance vs diffrent armor types, so plain ineffective compared to mages DD's.
and most mages got some kind of group ability, CC/buff/bt/speed.
and archer got.... oh yeah, and ineffective ranged attack(compared to mages).
But yea they are still playable, they will still get there random kills, but they are not what most ppl made them for.

and about those numbers, how many of those will eventually gain See Hidden ? those numbers will get greater rather quick I think. And if See Hidden wasnt overpowerd why the heck did they add Camo?

 

[old.Nol]

...

You have a 50, why not roll an SB to run solo? My point is don't write off your archer just yet, this game constantly evolves, in 1.54 you will prolly find something that aids archers against Assasins - an uber crit to take them down

 

[old.Atrox]

I didnt kill santa cuz of any upcomming abilitys in the game, I killed him mainly cuz I got bored of the class, the general player attitude in Exc\mid

 

[Gahldir]

Originally posted by old.Atrox
Gahldir yea I know what benefits ranged attacks have, and yea I addmit some archers were overpowerd b4, and now it''s assasins turn to be ontop, PA, you cant stop that attack, unless it's a failed PA, poison/debuffs, Mallus took me down from 1200hp to less then 950hp with the con debuff then came the PA dmg and the poison ticks. but yea keep whineing about Archers and how uber they are... jackass....

so, you also agree with the creater of the thread that archers should be unkillable for all classes? cuz that's pretty much what he wants (better invisebility and melee)...

 

[old.Atrox]

No I dont want 1 class thats ontop of the food chain.
what i would like is a working sissor/paper/rock system.
and I want dices I mean its a RPg ffs, and no dices!!!!

 

[Danya]

Originally posted by envenom
o btw yes im really looking forward to next patch.I dont think you'll be seeing many solo archers classes much well i hope there is coz im blade shade and i specilize in killing stealther classes.

Stealthers like minstrels? Well known for their weak defense versus blades...
I always like facing bladeshades / rangers, because they hit like pansies on chain + slash resist.

Atrox has a point though, archer classes add little to PvE groups, anything they can do a mage does better. Without stealth in RvR they have no edge basically and they aren't useful in group because of the mage being better thing again. That's especially true in Midgard where the mages have so many different spells. Atrox, I'd suggest you ignore Chesnor, he's a troll that won't be happy till we all run round emain unarmored with identical HP, hitting each other with training daggers.

 

[Talifer]

Originally posted by old.Atrox
Why use a archer for ranged attacks ?
ok they can take alittle more hits then a mage, and they are not spotted as easly as a mage in a crowd.
but other than that, mages attacks can get resisted, and redused in dmg by resists while archers attacks can; Blocked ( engage ), Evaded, they have to switch arrows for a better perfomance vs diffrent armor types, so plain ineffective compared to mages DD's.
and most mages got some kind of group ability, CC/buff/bt/speed.
and archer got.... oh yeah, and ineffective ranged attack(compared to mages).
But yea they are still playable, they will still get there random kills, but they are not what most ppl made them for.

and about those numbers, how many of those will eventually gain See Hidden ? those numbers will get greater rather quick I think. And if See Hidden wasnt overpowerd why the heck did they add Camo?

Well you said it all there, the archer can take more hits, if the archer gets attacked we don't lose our heals or our mezzes, if he gets killed we don't lose our buffs or our BT. While the key caster is the first to die, if the opposition is on their toes, this means the archer is free to pick off enemy casters, if they go for the archer instead, our caster/mezzer is free to wreak havoc. If the archer finds he isn't doing much damage due to armour type, he can switch arrows (What does the caster do when he finds his opponent has 30%+ resistance to his main damage type?).
The archer is great for stopping enemy casters without alerting the enemy to his presence. As a Merc I usually head for the caster in the opening seconds of combat, however this draw a lot of attention to me, it's quite obvious who's hitting the caster and usually one of two things happens, the caster turns and sprints managing to get out of my melee range while everyone else in the groups beats me to a pulp or someone hits instant mez/stun and the rest of the group beat me to a pulp. The archer can do my job much more effectively and kill the caster with a far greater success rate. The archer can also open the groups attack with a crit shot that doesn't immediately draw attention to the group like a flaming ball of fire does. The archer can also melee alot better than a caster when the need arises.
The archer really is a good class to have in the group.

I can understand you not liking to change your role from solo to group, but I don't think this means archers become gimped by any means.

Talifer

 

[old.LandShark]

Originally posted by old.chesnor
As I understand it, See Hidden works to clip range, but it only reveals the player 'shadowed'.

Except that these 'shadows' pop into view as full solid players for a second before becoming hazy.
Good bug that.
Gets fixed in 1.51! Except it still happens a lot of the time!

 

[old.Atrox]

Yea you are right, archers do have afew benefits, aswell does the mages, It's mainly upto the group to decide, do we want BT/dmgadd/speed/CC with the possibility to lose it during combat, or do we want a more reliable constant dmg flow.
Mages were created to be grouped, archer were not, I've made up my mind.

 

[Talifer]

Originally posted by Dannyn

Atrox has a point though, archer classes add little to PvE groups, anything they can do a mage does better.

This can be said about several other classes, like the Merc and the Blademaster for a start. The Armsman can do everything the Merc can do in PvE but better, better damage, better defense. The only difference is that the Merc didn't start out uber in RvR so they have no nerfs to complain about

Talifer