aprs, finance, etc

[Tom]

Can anyone help me out here?

I just got the paperwork through from the finance company for my car, and noticed something odd.

When I bought the car, I told the salesman I could get a loan at an APR of 6.8%, could he beat that? He said he could get his finance at 7%, so I went with that, seeing as it would make things a bit easier to buy it 'all under the same roof' so to speak.

The paperwork shows an APR of 14.2%

When I use some calculators on the internet for loans, at 7%, it would be £298 per month which is a total charge of £1 809 for the loan over 4 years. When I put 14.2% in there, it comes out as £337 per month, £3 681 over 4 years. Thats very close to the £333.2 per month and £3 696.60 I'm currently paying under this finance agreement.

Now before I go steaming in there, can anybody give me an idea as to why he told me 7%, and I'm actually paying 14.2%? I've had very very poor service from this dealership, and if indeed I have been ripped off, this car will be going straight back, and I'll shove it where the sun doesn't shine.

 

[oblimov]

yeah uve been ripped off m8

if he said apr is 7% and its not it 14% then hes done you over, however if you signed an agreement which said 14% then you might not have a leg to stand on

THe thing with salesmen is theyll say anything to get you to sign and anything they do say or promise is verbal only unless its written down and signed by yourselve and themselve

i got pumped once by arnold clark who told me they would give me x amount of free services with my new car i bought donkeys ago and then they turned round and said there would be none and they never said that, coz it wasnt on any paperwork i had i couldnt complain

 

[throdgrain]

Ding! I have the answer.
(Probably).

In the motor trade we almost always quote the flat rate, which often works out to be about half the APR. The reason we do this is , obviously, to make it look better, but also because on HP agreements the APR is an arkward figure.
For example, my finance deals are done at 6.5% flat rate. This should work out at about 13% APR with a deposit of say, £200 or something small.
However, if the deposit is a large amount, perhaps 50% of the purchase price, the APR figure rockets up to like 22%, even though the flat rate, which is what everything is really worked out on, has stayed exactly the same.
If I were you I would look at what you were going to pay on the previous loan, and what you are actually paying now. All else is bollocks m8

/edit, also , did you get payment protection with your finance? If so this will have been added on to the price. If you need any more info gimme ashout in irc m8

 

[Tom]

No payment protection, if I can't work I just get rid of it.

You have to be a banker to understand this stuff. I mean, I use an online calculator and it tells me a certain % and monthly repayments, and I give that information to the salesman and he says 'oh yeah I can do it at nearly that %', and suddenly theres a £1800 difference?

Confusion marketing. Thats it, I'm keeping this car for 12 months, then the fucker is going, and I'm never buying another Audi ever again. I've had soooo many problems with the dealer its untrue.

 

[throdgrain]

M8, take it from one who knows. Never, ever quote percentage rates at people, particularly not car salesmen
All you got to look for, is how much is the payment per month .Nowt else matters

 

[gmloki]

M8, take it from one who knows. Never, ever quote percentage rates at people, particularly not car salesmen
All you got to look for, is how much is the payment per month .Nowt else matters

What throd said. I got stung once by a member of the family and the car company. I was "Asked" to help someone out and collect a car for somebody who had just purchased a brand new Vauxhall Omega. As I turned up i was asked to sign a form to say I had collected the vehicle. Thought it was just procedure.

Five day later I got a letter from Lloyds TSB Fianance to say Thank you for your custom Mr Ash. You are now the guaruntor(sp) for an £18000.00 loan. If Mr Sharky fcuker in your family defaults on payments you are responsible. I phoned the dealers up immediately and they made it perfectley clear that was not there problem as far as they were concerned the deal was done. Any problems take it up with the finance company. I explained I was explicitly told that I was only signing to say I had collected the car. Their reply was "wheres my proof"

 

[oblimov]

how did they get your address?

i wouldnt sign for anything ever in my life that wasnt mine, i remember once before as a student in my grotty bedsit, one guy answered the door to these bailifs and they took his pc and bike as payment on a loan overdue by some dude who left like a year ago or something

 

[gmloki]

They got it because I had to show ID with address on. Believe me, lesson has been learned. Subsequently I no loger speak to that member of my family

 

[Trem]

Thats it, I'm keeping this car for 12 months, then the fucker is going

Not with HP on it you ain't.

 

[old.user4556]

Selling a car with hire purchase still on it is a criminal offence, you need to take out a bank loan and consolidate it before you can sell it privately.

Tom, as mentioned, he's quoted you a "rate" but not the final APR % which is the anual percentage rate on the total that you've borrowed. Ford did the same to me, but i work in banking and caught the fucker out and found out the APR % was 15%.

The APR as you say is 14.2% which is daylight robbery. You have a few options:

Disclaimer: i'm not technically qualified to offer you this advice and you should see an IFA

1) Take out a cheap bank loan (one of the ones offering ~6%) and consolidate the car finance. It'll take wads off your monthly payments and your total amount payable will also be slashed. However, it does mean you'll have a bank loan for as long as you take it over and you can't terminate that early, unlike a hire purchase loan.

2) Wait until you're half way through your hire purchase agreement and terminate it and hand the car back. So, if your HP is over 4 years, you keep the car two years and then give it back and walk away from the deal. They can't decline as it's credit law.

Car finance is incredibly expensive, but it can work out better for those who only keep their car for a couple of years and want to hand it back at the end; or perhaps don't want to outright own the car. As a result, that's why the APR is so high; plus they want to make a few bob.

In terms of storming back into the dealership and saying "oi, fuckwit!", if you've signed a credit agreement i suspect that you're not going to have a lot of luck. Afterall, you might have knowingly bought the car with a high rate and then paniced that you couldn't afford it with the only option to feign that he mis-sold it to you. However, there may be something on the department of trade and industry website regarding the mis-selling of goods on credit or that he deceived you about the APR.

http://www.dti.gov.uk/

Edit: I should say that the dealership probably won't have anything to do with it, your beef is now with the finance company.

 

[Tom]

Thanks G, getting another loan sounds like a good idea. I'll find out how much it will cost to settle the finance, and get the loan sorted.

I have a massive beef with the dealership about aftersales service, and this will be going on the very strongly worded letter that I will be sending to the manager, and Audi UK if I get no satisfaction. Its their loss ultimately, seeing as I had an A4 for 4 years and it was a great car, I buy a better car and get shit service. The whole thing has made owning the car pretty distasteful, and I don't feel I can enjoy another Audi without feeling that sense of bitterness.

Roll on 12 months, BMW or Subaru next for me (BMW are very highly rated in the dealer stakes, and Subaru's never break)

 

[dysfunction]

BMW Z4


hhhmmmmmmmmmmmmm :drool:

 

[Tom]

hehe

BMW 530d Touring - not quite as droolworthy, but a good solid practical car with a big fast diesel engine and good economy

 

[Bodhi]

Fast diesel is an oxymoron. Get a 545i.

 

[Dr_Weasel]

Get a Mazda RX8 Tom. Tis a bloody fantastic car for the money, goes like shit off a shovel and handles like a go-kart.

 

[Tom]

Fast diesel is an oxymoron. Get a 545i.

0-60 in 8 seconds disagrees, but I get your point, all teh powa in a 2000rpm band

 

[Trem]

BMW Z4


hhhmmmmmmmmmmmmm :drool:

You massive bra wearing poof

Get a Subaru and you will never look back, absolutely the best car I have ever owned. Fucking quick as well

 

[throdgrain]

Cars are gay. get a Fireblade

 

[old.user4556]

Z4 is for women or gay men, really; it doesn't suit men at all .

 

[Jupitus]

I was gonna keep quiet up until you mentioned the BMW thing... in this and other threads

Got a BMW 323 Touring a few months back (2.5 litre petrol engine). Got it quite cheap so wasn't suprised and spending a bit on some maintenance. The local dealership has always been great; good service and no fucking about. They admitted they didn't know enough about sound and pointed me to a guy they use who did a great job giving me some great volume

Goes like shit off a shovel, tbh, and is absolutely fantastic. Recommend it to anyone

 

[old.user4556]

You massive bra wearing poof

Get a Subaru and you will never look back, absolutely the best car I have ever owned. Fucking quick as well

I do fancy an Impreza WRX STi, but it's too expensive, i'm only 24 mind.

 

[old.user4556]

Best place for loan hunting Tom http://www.moneysupermarket.com/Loans/loan.asp

Be careful of early redemptions penalties on loans incase you do sell the car and pay off the loan. Additionally, these "5.7% APR" and "5.6% APR" loans tend to be a crock of shit: they're only given to a handful of customers and the majority of borrowers with a good credit rating are offered perhaps 7% APR, or perhaps as high as 9% APR.

When i sourced a loan for my new car (meant to arrive on Saturday fs), northern rock, alliance and leicster, abbey and cahoot offered me shite rates well above their advertised rates you see punted around. When I said "what's the deal?" they said "oh, that's just a typical best case scenario with someone with a high credit rating" - so basically, very few people. I got a loan with the Halifax in the end which was 6.5% APR.

Your circumstances will be different Tom, so shop about and you might get one of the ultra low rates. I'd do it sooner than later, the Bank of England base rates are expected to go up another notch.

 

[Bodhi]

Z4 is for women or gay men, really; it doesn't suit men at all .

Precisely. Sod the Z4, secondhand M3's are your friend.

 

[old.user4556]

I googled for the Z4 and look what was on the search results.

http://www.gaymillionairesclub.com/Mainpage.html

Anyone will tell you that success is empty without someone to share it with. Choosing between a BMW Z4 or an SL500 Mercedes isn't the most important decision you will ever make in your life! The most important decision you will make is in choosing someone with whom to share your life. The philosophy behind Gay Millionaires Club is to provide you with the resources to be successful in finding your life partner.

Gay people are very nice, I have a gay friend too. But I wouldn't drive a gay car.

 

[Gray]

Would i?
Wouldnt i?
Would i?
Wouldnt i?

Too fucking right i would... altho £30g is a bit out of my reach. D'oh!

 

[old.user4556]

There are far better cars out there for the money, cars that people wouldn't question which team you batted for - besides this is the UK, it rains all the time so the soft top would be impractical.

 

[Tom]

Checking out www.confused.com, Northern Rock is the best deal. It also happens to be my mortgage provider And they just ok'd a £6 000 secured loan (on top of my mortgage) to do my bathroom and some other bits, so I should be ok. I have a financial adviser who can sort these things out, maybe I'll give him a shout

 

[Tom]

Right, this is the final fucking straw. They've had it in today, and still not fixed the fucking scraping noise the car is making. "we couldn't replicate it" they say, incompentent bastards its been doing it every day without fail the last 2000 miles!

What do you think of my letter of complaint? Constructive critisism please

Sir

I wish to make a serious complaint against your dealership, the incompetence of some of your staff, and the outright lies used to sell me a finance package.


I recently purchased a used Audi TT, registration ******. The salesman’s name was Jason Butler. Mr Butler was very friendly and helpful in the purchase of the car, and during the test drive offered to repair/replace some components on the car that were worn or damaged. He also offered to install a free cup holder. During the drive, the rear parcel shelf was squeaking and rattling, but Mr Butler said that this was the temporary number plate.

When I discussed the finance arrangements with Mr Butler, I told him that I had been offered a bank loan at an APR of 6.8%, from the Northern Rock building society. Mr Butler then suggested that Audi Finance would be able to offer me a loan at 7%. As buying the finance and the car from the same place would be easier, I agreed to this deal. Mr Butler then invited your Finance salesman (I forget his name) to go over the finer points. He also tried to sell me some kind of finish on the car, “diamond bright” or something like that. Despite my repeated assurances that I wasn’t interested, he insisted on telling me what it was, and what it did. I did not take him up on this offer.

When I collected the car, the cup holder had not been installed as agreed. Mr Butler said that this was because your parts department had ordered the wrong colour, and that they would phone me to let me know when the correct part was in stock. He said to pop in anytime, it was a 5 minute install. I signed a multitude of forms and papers before I could take the car away.

On driving the car, I noticed that the parcel shelf was still making a racket, but this didn’t bother me at the time because I was pleased at being able to drive my new car.

A few days later, I received a phone call letting me know the cup holder was in stock. I drove in to collect it, and was told that nobody was available to install it. I told the service chap that I was told it was a 5 minute job, he said that he would have to take somebody else from a job to do it, and that they were too busy. He offered to book the car in, but I declined, took the cup holder myself, and installed it in less than 5 minutes, without the aid of tools.

I also began receiving phone calls from Tracker UK, I had at least 5 false alerts on the vehicle being moved without the keys in the ignition. When I phoned the salesman to tell him this, he told me I would have to take the car to the garage that fitted the tracking device – I didn’t pay this garage, I paid you, and I feel that your garage should have dealt with this problem, not me. As it happens, returning the car to the garage didn’t repair the tracking device. Tracker UK had to send one of their engineers to my house, and repair it on site (which he did, quickly and professionally). Another day wasted.

Shortly after, while working, I tilted the passenger seat forwards to gain access to the rear seats, and the lever snapped off in my hand. When I took the car in, I was told they would order a new part, and that fitting this was a ‘5 minute job’.

A few days later, the part arrived, and I drove in to have it fitted. I was then told that they had ordered the wrong part number, and the lever was for the other side of the seat, and booked a new date for installation. I also told them about the parcel shelf, and they ordered a new shelf.

Around this time, the car started making scraping noises from the exhaust/engine system, under acceleration, and it has continued to do this up to the present day.

The next time I took the car in, midday, I was told that I would have to re-book, as it was too late in the day for anybody to fit the lever. When I told the man at the service desk that ‘it was a 5 minute job’, he said that the seat would need stripping, and they couldn’t do it that day. They did however fit the parcel shelf. So I booked yet another day in. I told him about the scraping noise, he said they needed a ‘master technician’, and someone would check it out the next time I was in.

When I arrived on the next date, at 0830, I was again told that it would take several hours to install the part, despite being originally told it was a ‘5 minute job’. When I told the chap at the service desk exactly what part it was, he went into the garage for a few minutes, came back out, and confirmed that the seat did not require stripping, and that it would take ‘about 30 minutes’ to repair it. I think the person who saw me was called ‘Trevor Butler’?

20 minutes later, he came back over to me (I was sat having a coffee), and told me that Audi had once again ordered the wrong part for the lever. By now, as you can imagine, I was getting very annoyed. He said that Audi had bagged the wrong part in the right bag, suggesting that it wasn’t their fault. I then asked him about the scraping noise under the car, and he said that ‘no master technician was available’. I told him that all you needed to do was to rev the engine to be able to hear it, so he drove the car himself around into the garage, and they inspected it, but couldn’t find the problem (they did confirm the noise though). He said that I could wait while a driver went to your Stockport branch, and collected the seat lever, to which I said I didn’t want to wait that long. He then suggested a courtesy car, which I refused, because the terms of your agreement suggest that in the event of an accident where the fault is not mine, and the insurance company is unable to claim from the other driver, that I am personally liable for the first £1 000 of any claim. This is disgusting, and totally unacceptable.

The service chap then suggested collecting the car from my house at a later date, and filling it with petrol by way of an apology. This I accepted.

They have just returned the car today, full of petrol and valeted, with the seat repaired. They have not repaired the scraping noise. The lady on the phone (who rang me to tell me the car was on its way back to my house) said that ‘they couldn’t replicate the noise’

The vehicle has been making this noise without fail every single day for the last 2000 miles. It is very obvious, and absolutely replicable, every single day. I find it bizarre that your staff are suggesting that on the occasion that its brought in for a check, it magically stops making this noise.

I also wish to make a very serious complaint about the manner in which the finance package was sold to me. I told the salesman that I could get a loan at an APR of 6.8% - to which he replied “I think Audi can do it at 7%” – and that’s a quote. I received copies of the paperwork recently, and to my horror discovered that the APR I am paying is actually 14.2%. That equates to around £1 800 over the 4 years of the finance deal, £1 800 that would be in my pocket had I got the bank loan. £1 800 that would still be mine, were it not for your salesman suggesting that 7% was the APR, and not the flat rate. At no point in any discussions was the figure of 14.2% mentioned, ever. The only time it appears, is on one of the many forms that I have signed. Can you tell me why your head of finance didn’t care to point out the difference between APR and flat rate? I didn’t know there was one until recently. This man is supposed to help me at every stage, not earn commission by mis-selling packages to gullible customers with money in their pockets.

I believe that the salesman and the finance chap knew exactly what they were doing. There is no way anybody would expect a customer to quote anything but the APR on a finance deal, and I feel that this should have been carefully explained to me. I didn’t haggle over the price of the car (apart from the cosmetic repairs) like many other customers would. I recognised the quality of the brand, and paid the asking price.


This is the second Audi I’ve owned (I had an Audi A4 for 4 years before this car), and until now have considered them to be well worth the money. The car is indeed superb, but now every time I look at it I can’t help but think of the time that has been wasted on repeated visits to repair problems that should have been dealt with efficiently. I also can’t help but think of the £1 800 that I will be worse off for, because of the underhand tactics of your staff.

I would appreciate it if you could contact me as soon as is possible, to help resolve this matter to a satisfactory conclusion.

Kind Regards

 

[Lazarus]

tbh Tom, it reads more like a "once upon a time" story or a plain old "rant"

needs to be more bullet points. If you do it that way it highlights the number of problems experienced. They way it is written at the moment, hides the amount of problems you have experienced.

Even if you list every issue as a bullet point (summary of course) and then expend on each of the issues in a paragraph later in the letter.

 

[~Yuckfou~]

Pay a solicitor £50 to write the letter for you. You WILL get a response.

Dealers a sharks, I had all kinds of problems with my last Merc and the dealer. I have a new Merc from a different dealer and these guys care about who I buy the next car from. The previous dealer has not only lost my business but also that of 3 colleagues. It's expensive when you don't look after your cutomers.