Anyone happen to be a sparky?

[Kryten]

Something that's been niggling me. Just moved to a new, rented house.
I know the electrics are very old anyway, but we have a small problem with the lights. And only lights we have energy saving bulbs in.

Even when OFF at the switch, the bulbs "pulse" on and off very dimly every now and then, as if theres a small amount of current going through. Doesn't happen on normal bulbs, but I know thats because they take more juice to fire up in the first place.

Is this something that can be expected with older electrics and these new fangled bulbs, or is there likely a serious issue with the electrics? Bit worried and the landlord isn't back from somewhere in the carribean till god knows when :/

 

[Dr_Weasel]

Is the switch a rocker switch or one of those fancy pants dimmer switchers? A rocker switch should break the physical connection so there isnt any way on earth the current should be able to flow through the circuit.

 

[leggy]

Unless of course there happens to be a phase to earth fault. It's the only thing I can think of from the top of my head. This type of fault would usually trip the RCD at the circuit breaker box but I assume with old electrics comes an old-style fuse board.

My advice: firm diagnosis by a qualified electrician.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Well i do say this is the first time i've encountered this on these forums. But i have a number you could call, these guys:

Though a bit goofy looking, should be able to help you

 

[leggy]

Additional point (without trying to scare monger):

While it may not be an earth fault it is advisable to get it checked anyway. An earth fault could potentially affect all metalwork in the home; copper pipes etc. You do not want a residual current flowing through metwork you assume to be dead.

Of course I could be wrong as I'm not a corgi certified electrician and what I have said is really just hearsay based on a what I know.

 

[caLLous]

Well i do say this is the first time i've encountered this on these forums. But i have a number you could call, these guys:

Though a bit goofy looking, should be able to help you

You could call them but I'm not sure how they'd get there. They only seem capable of driving, I've never seen them on any other form of transport. And unless one of them reads about something in the paper that 'might be their kind of thing' or one of their old friends rings them and tells them about something weird going on you've not got much of a chance I'm afraid.

 

[old.Tohtori]

You could call them but I'm not sure how they'd get there. They only seem capable of driving, I've never seen them on any other form of transport. And unless one of them reads about something in the paper that 'might be their kind of thing' or one of their old friends rings them and tells them about something weird going on you've not got much of a chance I'm afraid.

Dang you're right.

Hey! Put a news report about all those killed hookers in an american junk paper!

I bet they can't resist going overseas to catch the ghost of jack the ripper

Then they could just pop by.

 

[Damini]

You could call them but I'm not sure how they'd get there. They only seem capable of driving, I've never seen them on any other form of transport. And unless one of them reads about something in the paper that 'might be their kind of thing' or one of their old friends rings them and tells them about something weird going on you've not got much of a chance I'm afraid.

They were on a plane once. And then they exorcised a demon.

And then the elder one seduced me, and we joined the mile high club. It was the best day ever. Apart from the demonic possession, and the fact that I made the last bit up.



Anyway, just so this isn't only about my deep and completely unhealthy obsession with "Older Brother From Supernatural" be very wary what electricians you call out to have a look. Old house + old wiring + no understanding of electrics = cash cow

I should know. We got a quote for £750 for a job that we managed to get fixed for £60.

 

[caLLous]

They were on a plane once. And then they exorcised a demon.

You're right but they only got on the plane to exorcise the demon, they weren't using it as a mode of transport!

 

[anattic]

A little off-topic, but it's worth noting that as of last year, the rules in the UK surrounding what you can and can't do to your electrical wiring have changed in a really tiresome way.

Building Regulations Part P (for it is they) state that a large proportion of what used to be acceptable DIY have to be either done by a qualified electrician, or at least signed off by one.

Details here: http://www.iee.org/Publish/WireRegs/BR-PartP-dwellings.cfm

 

[Kryten]

Heh, cheers folks.

Its an old style fuse board with removable breakers in - i've swapped the breaker for another and it appears to have fixed it - but wont be able to confirm that till its dark enough to see it happen in the first place

otherwise i'll have to pull all the pendants upstairs apart which is no fun job when half of them are older than I am

 

[Tom]

I don't see how a faulty breaker could be the sole cause of this problem.

The switches for your lights should be 2-pole - they should switch both live and neutral off. Even with a faulty breaker, the light switch should be an effective barrier against any flow of current.

I think Leggy has made a good point. RCDs work by measuring the amount of current flowing through the live terminal, and then looking at the amount coming back through the negative terminal. If there is the slightest difference between the two then that indicates a leak to earth in the circuit (not phase to earth Legster!), and the RCD trips out. They are much safer than a simple fuse as a fuse takes time to heat up and melt the wire.

I would suggest though that one or more lightswitches in the property are arcing. Are there any burnt fishy smells around the place? Thats a sure sign of arcing in an electrical fitting.

The bottom line is that if you don't know what you're doing it will KILL YOU, and you should insist that the landlord gets a suitably qualified electrician to test all appliances, wiring, and fitting. If the wiring is more than 20-30 years old it should be done as a matter of course, insulation breaks down with time.

 

[leggy]

If there is the slightest difference between the two then that indicates a leak to earth in the circuit (not phase to earth Legster!)

Heh oops

That's effectively what I meant. I've spent the last few months dealing with phase to earth and phase to phase faults on a distribution network. It's just force of habit to quote one or t'other.

Although the leak would have to come from the 'live' or 'phase (the proper term)' which is the reason I said phase.

 

[Tom]

Well its only a phase because of the way the electricity is generated in the power station

To all intents and purposes though, while phase is very important in an industrial setting, in the home its a bit meaningless. Unless the house over the road is on the next phase, and hes running a mains extension into your house

 

[Kryten]

Will certainly speak to the landlord anyway after i've checked all the plugs and what not. Can confirm now it's pitch black that changing the breaker for whatever reason *has* fixed the issue. Certainly can't be too careful as you say yourself.

 

[leggy]

Well its only a phase because of the way the electricity is generated in the power station

To all intents and purposes though, while phase is very important in an industrial setting, in the home its a bit meaningless. Unless the house over the road is on the next phase, and hes running a mains extension into your house

I never suggested that the phase ANGLE was important as it isn't in a domestic setting. I usually refer to the live as phase as that is it's technical term. Your domestic supply is taken directly from a 3 phase supply. There are 3 'live' phases down the LV main in the street (and a single neutral). One of those phases (red, green or blue) enters your home as the 'live'. The other houses may or may not be allocated a different phase colour. This ensure security of supply etc. One phase going down doesn't mean everyone goes off.
Hence live = phase.

I'm not talking angle

 

[Tom]

Its a good job you're not talking about angle, as thats where my brain goes into standby mode!

Before you know it we'll be holding our right hands up, curling our fingers, and looking at the direction our thumbs point

 

[leggy]

Before you know it we'll be holding our right hands up, curling our fingers, and looking at the direction our thumbs point

Heh,

I always have to look that rule up

 

[Chilly]

...The bottom line is that if you don't know what you're doing it will KILL YOU...

Pussey. I've had mains juice go through me on more than one occasion - unless you bite down on something its not gonna kill you, it just reall *really* hurts and makes you sore and feel sick for a while.

 

[Tom]

 

[Paradroid]

http://digg.com/tech_news/Ban_the_incandescent_light_bulb.


I'd say it's either residual energy or interference (through the wires or directly on the bulb).

Fluorescent bulbs light up with the energy they get beneath an electricity pilon, could something else have lit-up the bulb? Were you scanned by a ufo or something?





..isn't 3-phase just red for all the lives and black for neutral? (with the same coding for 5 & 7 wire setup)

 

[Paradroid]

...god help anyone fixing anything I've made!

 

[leggy]

Pussey. I've had mains juice go through me on more than one occasion - unless you bite down on something its not gonna kill you, it just reall *really* hurts and makes you sore and feel sick for a while.

I'll assume you're being a troll on purpose.

For those of you who aren't slightly retarded; do not take any stock in this comment as it is complete and utter bollocks.

 

[babs]

Pussey. I've had mans juice go through me on more than one occasion - unless you bite down on something its not gonna kill you, it just reall *really* hurts and makes you sore and feel sick for a while.

Fixed

 

[djpringle]

..isn't 3-phase just red for all the lives and black for neutral? (with the same coding for 5 & 7 wire setup)

We use Red, Blue & Yellow for our 3 core 3 phase cabling.

 

[leggy]

Depends on he country. Regs here changing and the new colours will be black, brown and grey (for distribution anyway).

 

[old.Tohtori]

Oh by the way, dunno about england, but in finland it's illegal to do sh*t to electrics if you don't have a training.

Even if it was your own house, you still need the pro's to do the circuity things.

 

[Draylor]

Were you scanned by a ufo or something?

 

[Kryten]

Tohtori - unfortunately not the same here. You can legally do what you like to the electrics or gas appliances (not mains) in your own house.

In rented houses though you must use a "Part P" registered engineer for things like adding spurs or other basic stuff and must use a NICEIC registered engineer for more important things such as installations, fitted RCDs, mains boxes etc.
However theres a loophole that many many landlords/agents use - you're also allowed to fit the items yourself regardless of your expertise and have the appropriate engineer simple commision it for you. Oddly, the same applies with CORGI stuff too - you can actually legally fit a boiler, the cabling and the pipework as long as a CORGI engineer commissions it :/

Daft, to be frank, as these are all things that threaten the lives of the people living in the property and its certainly better to be safe than sorry.

 

[Tom]

Strictly speaking, there is nothing in the gas regulations that demands CORGI certification. They just say 'competent', and CORGI happens to be accepted as being such.

As for part P, well all I can say is that its a good job I have a few rolls of old colour wiring up in my loft for whenever I want to do stuff