Anyone for an Intelligent Debate? (no newbie lamers allowed thx)

[Sar]

If we were too close to the sun then the oceans would've boiled away or we would be fried. Trust me we're in "da zone"

Bloody well hope so cos I'm thinking of taking a weeks holiday away somewhere in a fortnight

 

[caLLous]

To celebrate youknowwhat?

 

[bodhi]

Darwinism for me personally. I go with the one there's more proof for. And answering a question we don;t know the answer to with "God did it" is the biggest cop out I have yet heard.

 

[Sar]

Originally posted by caLLous
To celebrate youknowwhat?

My circumcision?

I've sent an invite btw Wij, so never fear




Hehe, aye though, wanna get away somewhere for a while for a short break and just chill. Staying at home for the first fortnight might kill me

 

[mr.Blacky]

Originally posted by Bodhi
Darwinism for me personally. I go with the one there's more proof for. And answering a question we don;t know the answer to with "God did it" is the biggest cop out I have yet heard.

well if people knew that God did it then it wouldn't be faith would it? For me its a bit of both, not as much as believing in a God but rather a Creator. After that why not darwinism

For the question if there is a God why doesn't he/she/it make things better? Why should God? so we can fuck things up again? Aint it better to learn our lessons and do it ourselfs?

 

[Sar]

"God" can't exist, cos evil undeniably exists.

Sorted.

 

[Ono]

Originally posted by Wazzerphuk


Wow, and I used to think that Ono had some degree of intelligence.

You wait!!

Hell is a hot hot place to be.

 

[Wij]

Hell has the best nightclubs

 

[mr.Blacky]

Originally posted by Sar
"God" can't exist, cos evil undeniably exists.

Sorted.

nope, but then again I dont believe in the evil. To be honest if you believe in God you cant say that there is a devil caus God is allmighty so why should he have to fight with a devil?

 

[Moving Target]

I belive in God but I don't believe that he created it in 7 days etc.

 

[mr.Blacky]

Originally posted by Moving Target
I belive in God but I don't believe that he created it in 7 days etc.

bit earth centered. Who is saying 7 earth days

 

[Sar]

Originally posted by Mr.Blackshirt


nope, but then again I dont believe in the evil. To be honest if you believe in God you cant say that there is a devil caus God is allmighty so why should he have to fight with a devil?

I said evil, never mentioned the Devil, cos that's a Christian notion.

 

[Moving Target]

Originally posted by Mr.Blackshirt

bit earth centered. Who is saying 7 earth days

I certainly didn't

 

[mr.Blacky]

Originally posted by Sar


I said evil, never mentioned the Devil, cos that's a Christian notion.

the devil is based on the greek god Pan, who had goatlegs and played some music.
But ok you didn't but I still dont believe in evil

 

[Kempo]

I belive in God but I don't believe that he created it in 7 days etc.

i remember hearing a bit back that in some old old versions of the bible that were written in the original language ( or something like that) that it didnt say 7 days but 7 eras or periods, something like that, but anyhoo, I still dont believe it having done physics up to advanced higher (scotish equiv. of a level) things kinda convince you towards big bang theory

 

[xane]

The debate about evil is essentially a dualist religious one, the first Christians were keen to promote a "pure" monotheist religion, and that meant doing away with a counter-balance to "good" so that the "evil" could not become an alternative god.

Evil was effectively written out of Christianity, with the devil concept reduced to a "fallen angel". It has only been in recent times that the devil has resurfaced as a separate evil entity, violating the anti-dualist beliefs, ironically this was done by the "preacher" Christains with their fire and brimstone style of worship.

We all talk of "good and evil" today as if it is an essential Christian belief, but it is closer to the Gnostic and "blasphemous" traits of Lutherianism that Christianity shed so much blood trying to stamp out.

 

[Sar]

but I still dont believe in evil

Oh no?

Explain child abuse, murder, rape, war and so on?

How about "Natural evils" such as famine, drought, diseases?

Evil exists ok, it just depends on if you want to see it or not.

 

[Moving Target]

Originally posted by Kemposaur


i remember hearing a bit back that in some old old versions of the bible that were written in the original language ( or something like that) that it didnt say 7 days but 7 eras or periods, something like that, but anyhoo, I still dont believe it having done physics up to advanced higher (scotish equiv. of a level) things kinda convince you towards big bang theory

I don't believe whatsoever, ok?

 

[Xavier]

yup, I'm not religious myself but in defence of the story of creation I think the 7 days were more of a metaphor

the big bang is inargueable and even an omnipotent, all seeing godlike power would have a lot of trouble cooling the plasmatic aftermath of the bang in 7 days, let alone evolving mankind from amoeba - or for that matter putting its feet up(? do omnipotent beings even have feet ?)...

Of course I could be wrong and you all might be part of a rather elaborate dream I'm having... my alarm clock is about to go off so hold tight you're all about to stop existing

 

[Xavier]

Originally posted by Sar


Because if we can figure out how (or where*) the life on Earth originated from, then we can begin to analyse the atmospheres of extra-solar planets and see if they are likely to support life.

how does that help us determine what can support life?

we already know that the only element capable of supporting a cellular ecosystem is carbon, we also know it's chemistry (and therefore the other elements needed) and the temperature range for enthalpy of such carbon based reactions... (if you don't know why only carbon can do it, it's the only element that forms the complex chains necessary for forming even the simplest of cells...)

so we already know what elements have to be present and the respective temperature range to support the entropy of the system - isn't that in part the definition of a class M planet?

furthermore we can already analyse planetary competition based on the electromagnetic radiation picked up from the planetary bodies...

so how does the earths creation have anything to do with finding planets capable of supporting life??? the big bang wasn't an organised orderly explosion - we're not even sure of the precise point of origin (expanding universe theory)

 

[ShockingAlberto]

What about virii... They go against everything else on this planet. They can be classes as dead, untill they occupy a cell.

My biology teacher said that they might have come from another planet.

 

[Xavier]

they're one of the many sideeffects of evolution, the other two are bodhi and accountants

 

[mr.Blacky]

oohhh dang missed a couple of good posts here. But I have an answer

@Sar = sick people, sick people, sick people and egoistic people (or confused/ hartless)
blaming something else for things we partly do to ourselfs is a bit lame (floods/droughts=famine etc). Also it is an oportunity do to good, helping the victims and getting to learn from it. It might be sad but we learn more from faults and mistakes then from good things.

@Xavier we know that there is only carbon based lifeforms??? the universe is way to big to say something like that. We dont know enough to say that. We dont even know where live can exist, just recently there has been lifeforms found in a underwater vulcans (?not sure where though)

 

[Daffeh]

Originally posted by Sar
Yup, a billion years into the solar systems development all the planets were still being heavily bombarded by the bits of rock that hadn't gone into the formation of the planets (these are now settled into the asteroid belt).

hmm i remember reading an article somewhere that claimed the asteroid belt was infact an exploded planet (posibly due to excessive asteroid impacts whilst it was still in the process of cooling and solidifying), as some scientists calculated the distances between the inner rock planets, and somehow decided that the gap between mars and jupiter is too big


and virii arent even classed as being alive afaik and therefore cant be dead

 

[Wij]

OK, evil: Do a search on the internet for "the problem of evil" and you'll probably find a summary of the arguments.

=======================================

My summary (just made up from memory): If God is omnipotent (can do anything), omniscient (knows everything and the consequences of any and all actions) and also good then nothing evil need happen because God could prevent it.

Theist: God gave us free will. How could we prove that we are good without free choice. Therefore evil is our doing, not God's. If he interfered to stop us doing evil things then we don't have free will. Our actions have no moral consequence. We cannot be judged as moral beings.

Atheist: Even accepting human evil is necessary for a God who wishes to give us souls with free will how does this explain natural evils ? Let's say an Earthquake ? No human could be conceived as being the cause of an Earthquake.

Theist: Earthquakes give us humans the opportunity to show levels of courage that we would not normally show. It is good that we are able to exercise and demonstrate our free will to it's fullest extent morally speaking.

Atheist: A God who deliberately kills thousands of his people in order to allow others to show their moral character does not meet my definition of good.

Theist: That's the point. Only God is the judge of what is good.

Atheist: OK, we're in agreement at least. If God is the final judge of what is good and evil then there is no problem of evil and I accept your argument. However, can we now check whether that assumption is self-consistent since this is the whole crux of the argument.

Theist: OK.

Athest: What would you say if God decided that torturing babies was good ?

Theist: God could not decree such a thing since He is good.

Atheist: But in that case you are saying that you have a conception of good that you know God's must fit into. You have made the judgement and accepted that there is a notion of Goodness outside of God. If God could not do this because he is good then goodness, logically, must exist outside of God.

Theist: OK, and if I answer the other way ?

Atheist: Then you are left with the possibility that God could decree anything and you would have to accept it as good. Since I am pretty sure that you would not accept that torturing babies was right because God says so any more than I would then you must accept that you have a notion of good outside of God's commands.

Theist: Alright, then I don't accept your argument that God must be the final judge of what evil and good are in order for this argument to work. The argument would still fail if the notion of evil in the problem did not include earthquakes or anything similar.

Atheist: Alright but then I guess you have had to come up with a brand new definition of evil. Most people know what they consider to be good and evil and would consider Earthquakes evil. Some might understand the concept that God is really the judge of what is good or evil. But if neither general human values nor God are the judge of what is good or evil then what is ?

 

[bodhi]

Originally posted by Kemposaur


i remember hearing a bit back that in some old old versions of the bible that were written in the original language ( or something like that) that it didnt say 7 days but 7 eras or periods, something like that, but anyhoo, I still dont believe it having done physics up to advanced higher (scotish equiv. of a level) things kinda convince you towards big bang theory

Study Astrophysics at University level. You suddenly realise how shit creationist theory really is.

they're one of the many sideeffects of evolution, the other two are bodhi and accountants

You really need to get that chip out of your shoulder child.

 

[Mellow-]

Originally posted by Sar
"God" can't exist, cos evil undeniably exists.

Sorted.

But doesn't science state that for every action, there is a reaction?

Therefore if God exists, then an equally poweful thing/entity would also exist as a complete opposite.

Good:Evil

 

[Mellow-]

Originally posted by Kemposaur
things kinda convince you towards big bang theory

..which lead nicely onto the Horizon show about different dimensions rubbing against each other to produce bangs.

 

[Stazbumpa]

There are so many different versions and interpretations of God's alleged words, which one is supposed to be correct? If God spoke and someone wrote it down, then there has to be only one version, so why is it we have about 50 fucking different ways of beleiving in the same thing.

That is why, for me, the whole Creationist/God/organised religion thing holds no water at all and is a load of arse juice.

 

[Wij]

Originally posted by Mellow


But doesn't science state that for every action, there is a reaction?

Therefore if God exists, then an equally poweful thing/entity would also exist as a complete opposite.

Good:Evil

Wrong.

A world where everyone is nice to each other does not contravene any scrientific laws.