Any legal types?

[Yeke]

My partner just recieved a letter from her previous employer (DWP) claiming that they didn't deduct enough national insurance from her over a period of time that accumulates to over £600, they claim under the provisions of the employment rights act 1996, part 11, section 14 that they are entitled to recover this amount.

I've googled the said act and cant find any reference to the paragraph they go on to quote

"An employer has the right to make deductions from salary where the purpose of the deduction is the reimbursement of the employer in respect of an overpayment of wages ...... (made for any reason) by the employer to the worker"

To my way of thinking even if this is correct the wording of the paragraph seems more aimed at people currently employed by them also the "......" seems to indicate they conveniantly skipped part of the passage.

We obviously will be seeking proffesional advice but I'm just posting on the off chance someone here can clear this up and partly to vent because frankly I'm raging

 

[Aoami]

Was she sacked/made redundant or did she quit?

 

[Yeke]

Was she sacked/made redundant or did she quit?

It was a temp contract initially 3 months which was extended to a period of around 1 year, she left at the end of the contract.

Employment Rights Act 1996 (c. 18)

is the act they refer to however (maybe I'm reading it wrong) I cant find what they quoted.

 

[Aoami]

Also, are you sure it's not section 2 rather than section 11

 

[Aoami]

Anyway, it is section II not 11

employment rights act 1996, part 11, section 14

Thats the section they are referring to.

Was she employed directly by DWP or was she employed by an agency?

 

[Sharma]

Tilda will know!

He's got the entire british law memorised!

 

[Yeke]

Anyway, it is section II not 11

employment rights act 1996, part 11, section 14

Thats the section they are referring to.

Was she employed directly by DWP or was she employed by an agency?

thanks on the letter though it clearly states part 11 section 14, you would think if they are going to quote this stuff they would at least get it right

She was employed directly by the DWP her pay was handled by possabley the most incompetent bunch of ***** on the face of the earth (subcontracted) her pay was incorrect in one manner or another every time resulting in numerous phone calls to said incompetent *****.

 

[Aoami]

What i would do is write to the DWP asking for a copy of her contract, citing Employment Rights Act 1996 Part II section 13, see what it says about paying back wages.

However, it's quite interesting, seeing as the employer is DWP. Are they requesting the money as an employer, or as the DWP? It's hard to explain but hopefully you'll get the point

edit - I'd also say it's worth getting in contact with Citizens Advice. Also see if Tilda knows anything. I work in Employment Law but i'm not an actual lawyer you see.

 

[Laddey]

Tilda will know!

He's got the entire british law memorised!

Tilda is a he?

 

[Himse]

Tilda is a he?

she is only a he with a s on the front!

blatent typo

 

[Yeke]

What i would do is write to the DWP asking for a copy of her contract, citing Employment Rights Act 1996 Part II section 13, see what it says about paying back wages.

However, it's quite interesting, seeing as the employer is DWP. Are they requesting the money as an employer, or as the DWP? It's hard to explain but hopefully you'll get the point

edit - I'd also say it's worth getting in contact with Citizens Advice. Also see if Tilda knows anything. I work in Employment Law but i'm not an actual lawyer you see.

I understand what you mean with regards as to if its them (dwp) or as an employer, its difficult to tell from there correspondance, the opening lines are the only clue, "Employee services are obliged to recover any overpayments of salary made to a person who has been employed by the department of working pensions (DWP)."

I would assume from that it means they are recovering it as an employer but it's really not clear.

 

[Aoami]

Okay.

What i would do then is request a copy of her contract, and ask the DWP for a statement of the amount of national insurance paid to date.

 

[Cadelin]

When was this employment?

Mistakes happen with pay etc. If you were to recieve an extra £600 in one pay packet it is reasonable to assume most people would notice and if they went and spent it before the mistake was corrected they couldn't claim they didn't know it wasn't theirs.

However in this case because it was a small amount of money over the course of quite a long period, you have quite a good claim to say, you didn't realise you were being incorrectly paid and you spent the money and can't pay it back. You shouldn't be hit for a sudden fine of £600 because somebody else made the mistake. Even if they took you to court over this and the magistrate ruled in their favour you would probably be able to get away with paying it back at something like £5 a month.

There is a good possibility you won't have to pay this back. Have you considered what would happen if you just ignored the letter? They can't take the money from you as you are no longer employed by them.

 

[Marc]

How the fuck, does a govermant office mess up someones National insurance? In 12 years of being an accountant, I have never come across anyone, messing up an employee's NI on their wage. PAYE mistakes are common due to tax codes, but in the main, everyone who is employed will pay the same rates of NI. Idiots.

Anyway, my advice is for your partner to contact them and tell them it was their mistake and you she cant afford to pay it back.. I would write, rather than phone and see what happens. Obvioulsy they will have to pay the inland revenue the £600 so they are trying to claw it back from your partner.

 

[Yeke]

When was this employment?

Mistakes happen with pay etc. If you were to recieve an extra £600 in one pay packet it is reasonable to assume most people would notice and if they went and spent it before the mistake was corrected they couldn't claim they didn't know it wasn't theirs.

However in this case because it was a small amount of money over the course of quite a long period, you have quite a good claim to say, you didn't realise you were being incorrectly paid and you spent the money and can't pay it back. You shouldn't be hit for a sudden fine of £600 because somebody else made the mistake. Even if they took you to court over this and the magistrate ruled in their favour you would probably be able to get away with paying it back at something like £5 a month.

There is a good possibility you won't have to pay this back. Have you considered what would happen if you just ignored the letter? They can't take the money from you as you are no longer employed by them.

It was just over 12 months ago, what made the mistake even harder to detect is as said earlier they messed up her tax and pay on a regular basis so much so that there was never any consistency.

How the fuck, does a govermant office mess up someones National insurance? In 12 years of being an accountant, I have never come across anyone, messing up an employee's NI on their wage. PAYE mistakes are common due to tax codes, but in the main, everyone who is employed will pay the same rates of NI. Idiots.

Anyway, my advice is for your partner to contact them and tell them it was their mistake and you she cant afford to pay it back.. I would write, rather than phone and see what happens. Obvioulsy they will have to pay the inland revenue the £600 so they are trying to claw it back from your partner.

Its wasn't actually the DWP that handled the pay calculations it was a third party that they subcontracted that work out too and as said earlier they are incompetent to say the least.

AFAICS the NI contributions have been paid to the inland revenue correctly where they messed up was collecting it from her salary at the correct amount.

We made an appointment at the CAB so will see where that takes us, cheers to all for the advice