any health and safety peeps here?

[tris-]

today i was forced to work 7 consecutive hours with only 20 seconds worth of rest time and no access to drinking water. from what i understand, im legally entitled to 20 mins of rest if i work 6+ hours. and also, shouldnt drinking water be provided?


my questions to the enlightend ones are thus -

a) if this happens again, am i within my right to tell the manager "im taking my legally entitled break" without any reprecussion?

b) if i am told "no", is it fine to take it anyway?

c) if im threatend with something like a disciplinary for insubordination, is that an offence on their part?

d) the health and safety policy, i understand that should be provided in written form. is that the standard h+s policy poster with the grey background or one they have to make them selves? and what is their timescale of providing it? as i understand it is also a criminal offence not to provide it.

and anyone who wants to be lame and say shit like "welcome to the real world" or other bollocks, save your keyboard. if i have legal rights im damn sure gonna use them. its not africa and we dont live in the 1950s anymore

 

[Wij]

today i was forced to work 7 consecutive hours with only 20 seconds worth of rest time and no access to drinking water. from what i understand, im legally entitled to 20 mins of rest if i work 6+ hours. and also, shouldnt drinking water be provided?


my questions to the enlightend ones are thus -

a) if this happens again, am i within my right to tell the manager "im taking my legally entitled break" without any reprecussion?

b) if i am told "no", is it fine to take it anyway?

c) if im threatend with something like a disciplinary for insubordination, is that an offence on their part?

d) the health and safety policy, i understand that should be provided in written form. is that the standard h+s policy poster with the grey background or one they have to make them selves? and what is their timescale of providing it? as i understand it is also a criminal offence not to provide it.

and anyone who wants to be lame and say shit like "welcome to the real world" or other bollocks, save your keyboard. if i have legal rights im damn sure gonna use them. its not africa and we dont live in the 1950s anymore

You have rights but unless your employer is a multinational it's not worth trying to pursue them. Get another job.

 

[Chilly]

Have you just tried asking your boss?

 

[Wij]

Have you just tried asking your boss?

Well, fair point, if they'll give in based on just a chat then go for it.

 

[Ch3tan]

You are meant to have a break of at least 15 minutes when you work over 4 hours iirc.

Ask for some terms and conditions of employement. While I can understand not taking a break because it is busy and you want to help, being forced not to have a break is harsh -as is not having access to a drink.

 

[Magicthise]

Bring it to the attention of your line manager. If you don't have any joy make a written complaint, if that doesn't get you anywhere ask for a meeting and take a representitive with you, doesn't matter who, just someone who will sit in a corner taking minutes of the meeting and take a tape recorder with you and ask your manager if he/she minds the meeting being recorded.

If your still having problems after all that you can take further action under the working time regulations.

 

[Chilly]

Bring it to the attention of your line manager. If you don't have any joy make a written complaint, if that doesn't get you anywhere ask for a meeting and take a representitive with you, doesn't matter who, just someone who will sit in a corner taking minutes of the meeting and take a tape recorder with you and ask your manager if he/she minds the meeting being recorded.

If your still having problems after all that you can take further action under the working time regulations.

...and make enemies of your entire management and have to quit anyway due to it being a hostile environment. Not to mention losing all prospect of ever getting promoted. If your boss doesnt just say "oh, yeah sorry, feel free" then you are pretty much fucked whatever you do.

/edit

Don't get me wrong, obviously you *should* take action if your rights are being violated, but don't be surprised if you are left with a few quid compensation and no job and no prospect of a good reference.

 

[MYstIC G]

http://www.dti.gov.uk/employment/employment-legislation/working-time-regs/index.html

More usefully: http://www.dti.gov.uk/employment/em...mployment-guidance/page28979.html#rest_breaks

 

[Pfy]

...and make enemies of your entire management and have to quit anyway due to it being a hostile environment. Not to mention losing all prospect of ever getting promoted. If your boss doesnt just say "oh, yeah sorry, feel free" then you are pretty much fucked whatever you do.

/edit

Don't get me wrong, obviously you *should* take action if your rights are being violated, but don't be surprised if you are left with a few quid compensation and no job and no prospect of a good reference.

In my work we simply refuse to work unless we get the correct breaks at the correct time (1x 30min +walking time, or 2x 20mins +walking time).

We're actually encouraged to do this and it isn't particularly frowned upon.

Stick to your guns. If you're entitled to a break then take it.

 

[Tom]

Sounds more like a Working Time Directive issue than it does a H&S issue.

I've never had a full time job so I can't comment on the politics, but being self employed I tend to 'build up' reasons for a break, if none is offered. For instance, if I worked 7 hours without a break that wouldn't be particularly unusual, but if I wasn't offered a decent lunch break on a days work, and no apology was made, I'd make it very clear that it isn't usually how I like to work, and that some people charge for not having a break (1.5x hourly rate).

Chilly is right though, if you make a fuss over it, you're not going to go down particularly well. No different there for me either. Don't go screaming down the 'my rights' path before checking to see how the land lies.

 

[tris-]

i did ask for a break, as did everyone else who wasnt given one. also asked for a drink then was told to wait a while. fastforward 2 hours and i was allowed to get a drink on the the terms that it was "very quickly".

with regards to prospects, i work in a mc donalds i dont really plan on staying there forever. but ye even if its a shit job, rights are rights.

thanks for the info, if it happens again i will make sure to go down the written complaint path.

 

[Tom]

McDonalds? Right, bollocks to them. Is there a union to represent you? Theres no fucking way I'd ever let some management twat in a shithole (no offence) like McDonalds ever tell me that I couldn't get myself a drink.

 

[Litmus]

...and make enemies of your entire management and have to quit anyway due to it being a hostile environment. Not to mention losing all prospect of ever getting promoted. If your boss doesnt just say "oh, yeah sorry, feel free" then you are pretty much fucked whatever you do.

/edit

Don't get me wrong, obviously you *should* take action if your rights are being violated, but don't be surprised if you are left with a few quid compensation and no job and no prospect of a good reference.

Kinda silly way of putting things, whats in there being laws against this stuff if your just gonna avoid it in the hope you get some kind of "promotion" and no offence, if a company doesnt give its employees a rest after 7 hours of work there cant be many prospects there.
Your way of thinking is just like saying "its ok for all the poles to come work here for £1/hour, just because there willing too".

 

[throdgrain]

Your way of thinking is just like saying "its ok for all the poles to come work here for £1/hour, just because there willing too".

So what would you suggest, pay them more ??

 

[Gumbo]

Mcdonalds? You should get what you are entitled to. iirc the statutory regulations are something like 20mins break after working 6 hours, though I could be wrong, don't have time to check right now.

This is easily solved, you just need a copy of your Terms and Conditions of Employment, and the companies Grievance Procedure. That will tell you what you are entitled to, and how to complain if you think you have a grievance. The Terms and Conditions may well reference an Employment Manual which you should have access to aswell.

Request these items when you turn up early for a shift, or when your shift is over. Don't make a big deal of asking for them when you're meant to be cooking chips or something, it won't go down well. Then read them and/or post the relevant bits on here for us to look at. (Be wary of breaching confidentiality rules though). I am an Employer, and have been an Employee at both a very large company and smaller ones too. I've been involved at both ends of disputes so have some experience.

 

[dysfunction]

Its a very sad situation to be in where you have to work those kind of hours and conditions!

I certainly woulnt be subjected to that!

i would make my excuses and make my way to the toilets if necessary..nad have something to drink there....

if you are not in some form of prison or concentraion cap then you are allowed o pretty much do whatever you like!

 

[tris-]

i think its going to be difficult obtaining that info. for one the main manager thinks she is better and more intelligent than the rest of us, so she talks down to us and is very forceful in the way she does things.

if they wont give me that info then what do i do?

on a side note; im fairly sure they dont have the health and safety policy poster up and weve never been given any policy info. which afaik is a criminal offence with a fine upto 20k.

edit: also yesterday, the owners of the franchise where in to audit the store which i assume is why the bitch wouldnt let anyone take breaks. luckily i fucked up something up by accident which she says lost her marks, which im glad about now tbh. she was treating us all like shit to get her self a pay rise, as where the rest of the delegated managers. ive lost a lot of respect for people now, especially the ones who i was friends with before i started there.

 

[Huntingtons]

...and make enemies of your entire management and have to quit anyway due to it being a hostile environment. Not to mention losing all prospect of ever getting promoted. If your boss doesnt just say "oh, yeah sorry, feel free" then you are pretty much fucked whatever you do.

/edit

Don't get me wrong, obviously you *should* take action if your rights are being violated, but don't be surprised if you are left with a few quid compensation and no job and no prospect of a good reference.

oh, would be lovely if they fired him after a complaint with some stupid grounds. they would get their asses handed to them by any union or w/e. besides since its McD they have to be careful not to get into local media or national/international media with negative comments. but the suggestions come right along are good imo - dont be aggressive unless you plan to sue the shit out of them

 

[Gumbo]

i think its going to be difficult obtaining that info. for one the main manager thinks she is better and more intelligent than the rest of us, so she talks down to us and is very forceful in the way she does things.

if they wont give me that info then what do i do?

If they don't want to get destroyed at a Tribunal, they will furnish you with that information. Just ask for it politely, and again, I reiterate, outside of your shift. Maybe even go in a bit early, ask for the info and say, 'there's no hurry, just have it handy for the end of my shift, I'll pick it up then.

You are entitled to see a copy of your Terms and Conditions, or contract. A company like McDonalds will have a proper grievance procedure in place. If they don't (which I can't believe they won't) then the Statuory Grievance Procedures introduced in Oct 2004 will take effect.

have a look here.

You are entitled to what is yours by law, but bear in mind how it looks to an employer, if you're the only one rocking the boat and working to the letter of the law. At a job at McDonalds I do think it's right that the regs are followed. It must be a soul deestroying job at the best of times, never mind when you are getting shat upon.

Do bear in mind though, that when you get a grown up job, you'll probably notice people around you doing a damn site more than the minimum. You'll also quickly notice that they are the ones getting the pay rises, the promotions, and driving the flashy cars.

 

[Gumbo]

Oh and the H+S Poster that they legally have to have up is something like this.

 

[dysfunction]

lol gumbo I dont think even an ant could read that!!!

 

[Gumbo]

I would imagine that the one on his wall should be a little bigger!!

Now where's that Rollseyes smiley...

 

[dysfunction]

GumboDo bear in mind though, that when you get a grown up job, you'll probably notice people around you doing a damn site more than the minimum. You'll also quickly notice that they are the ones getting the pay rises, the promotions, and driving the flashy cars.

Thats the biggest load of bollocks i have heard in a very long time.

The people that actually do all the hard work etc etc etc are not necessarily the ones that get the benefit from their hard work!

The ones with the pay rises, promotions etc are the ones that manage to pull the wool over peoples eyes and leapfrog over the people that actually do the real work...

 

[Gumbo]

Maybe I should have preceeded that with 'In my experience'. *Pats Lotus*

And you seem a smidge bitter.. I'm sorry if your hard work isn't getting recognised.

You must be able to agree with this a bit though. The people who constantly bang on about breaks that they are entitled to, and leave bang on the dot of their contracted hours, no matter what work the rest of you have left to finish. Who never offer to help a mate out because they've already done their 38 hours this week, etc... are hardly going to be the ones first in line for the rewards.

Like I said, I've been on both sides of this equation. I was well rewarded for working damn hard. I saw those that didn't, get left behind and constantly moan about it, rather than knuckling down to get on with it.

Now, as an employer, I'm even more aware of it, and am constantly trying to spot those who deserve reward and recognition, over those who think it's their right.

 

[tris-]

lol at 'grown up' job. i would class my self as being grown up at the age of 20 and a bit, and having the experience of 3 previous jobs where i did do what wasnt required and got recognised and rewarded.

but working in mc donalds, i couldnt give 2 shits about a promotion, what people think of me or how much work is left over. minimum wage does that to ya.

 

[nath]

To be fair, he wasn't saying you weren't a grown up - just that McD's isn't really a grown up job

 

[Tom]

Your chances of being sacked are slim to none. Its a brave employer that sacks an employee for anything other than gross misconduct these days.

Its McDonalds tris. They're a big company. They'll have procedures. You don't like the manager. If she won't give you the help you require, go over her head to your local head office. She won't like it, but theres nothing she can do about it. Oh and not having the H&S poster up (its massive, A1 sized IIRC) is a big no-no.

 

[tris-]

To be fair, he wasn't saying you weren't a grown up - just that McD's isn't really a grown up job

aye i know, i just thought it was funny

 

[GReaper]

Speak to your manager first and give her a chance. Be confident when speaking to her, but don't start quoting every rule and regulation unless you have to.

She may back down and do something about it. If this fails then complain further up the ladder to her manager.

 

[Jeremiah]

Sorry for bumping the day old thread, but I thought I might give you some post-McDonalds advice

1st) If it ever happens again, first say to the shift/floor manager that you need a break. No matter what excuse they come up with for not letting you away, stick to your guns. McD managers are notorious for ignoring the legal time for breaks.

2) If they refuse to back down, just grab someone else on the floor as a witness and ask them one last time. If they dont let you away (for any reason) then get yourself a meeting with the store manager. As soon as you mention it to them, they should pretty much get it sorted. Yes the first manager will hold a grudge, but thats small change for getting what you are legally entitiled too. It might also help to keep a diary of how many times you are denied a break

3) After the store manager, its the area manager - you only need to breath his/her name to get all the other managers to listen to you. Drop it into your next "discussion" about it (if there is one). What you'll probably find tho is that the store manager sorts it out, cos this one incident will have huge repercussions for the store.

When I worked there, I was once sent on my break 10 mins before I was actually meant to start my shift just so they could get the breaks out of the way. The level of professionalism is breathtaking!

Hope this helps!