Anti smoking policy

[ilaya]

little story about my local pub ok..

back in 87 when we first moved to this house.. the pub was a typical pub.. 3 rooms, lounge, bar and pool room... fine no probs

in 1998 it got done out.. now its just 1 big room.. and it had a no smoking section with extractor fans.. no smoking at bar.. fair enough

BUT!!! in came the menu's for meals and kids running all over the bloody place..
the regulars cant get served coz the staff are too busy pissing around with food orders and clearing tables

now we gonna be stopped from smoking in a PUB altogether?

its a PUB! NOT a restuarant or a creche.. wtf u expect in a PUB?

whats gonna be next? they gonna ban the selling of booze coz somepeeps get drunk and leer at your girlfriend? in a PUB?

i passed my local earlier at noon.. the CAR PARK was FULL... im guessing those peeps aint gonna be drinking coz they brought their cars.. so prolly there for the food... why didnt they go to a fucking resturant instead of fucking it up for peeps who like a pint?

now i obey no smoking rules when they are in place, dont get me wrong, but... when i see a great big fat bastard complaining about someone smoking next to them as they tuck into their mixed grill i just think... yeah, coz the SMOKE is gonna kill you aint it...

 

[Svartmetall]

i just think... yeah, coz the SMOKE is gonna kill you aint it...

And again: it's not about trying to live forever. It's about the fact that being smoked at is very, very unpleasant and ruins going out for a lot of people.

 

[Naetha]

Well, who cares tbh, just a case of waiting until July 1st. Until then, I'll have to do with no-smoking pubs.

After that I'll just s****** quietly at the addicts trying to light up in the rain.

Oh ffs - that word is s*n*i*g*g*e*r and nothing rude^^

 

[Case]

Good riddance smoking bring on the ban \o/

Smokers need to realise the smoke smells disgusting, it makes them smell disgusting, it makes your clothes smell disgusting, your hair, your skin everything in fact.

Also it damages non smokers health and makes them smell like an ashtray. If smokers smoked without damaging my health and making me smell like crap I'd happily say smoke yourselves to an early grave but when it effects me and other non smokers against our will thats just not acceptable.

Smokers think their smoking effects no one but themselves
Non smokers want to enjoy and be free to enjoy all areas without worrying about the negative effects of second hand smoke.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Nah. A lot of smokers have this attitude of "we're free to smoke; you're free to go somewhere else." It's a double-standard. Their freedom is more important than others' freedom.

Like tris- said, it's what non-smokers say all the time too.

"We don't smoke, go somewhere else so WE can enjoy ourselves."

Each way this goes, others lives will be changed. Well, Non smokers for "the better"(which remains to be seen). smokers status quo or worse in either case.

it just seems that the "populus" is on the non smoking brigade and thus are winning.

Hopefully, in the future, we can atleast have smoking sections like you had when you first started to whine.

The point is, why are non smokers lives better then smokers if the smokers lives can't be better then the non smokers?

 

[Bugz]

How the fuck can you argue against it!

You're smoking damages us. I don't give a shit if you smoked if it didn't damage me but it does and that = wrong.

 

[Eeben]

How the fuck can you argue against it!

You're smoking damages us. I don't give a shit if you smoked if it didn't damage me but it does and that = wrong.

you have to die one way or a nother

 

[Naetha]

you have to die one way or a nother

yeah, but its your choice, versus MY choice!


/rant

 

[tris-]

yeah, but its your choice, versus MY choice!


/rant

if thats your argument then surely smokers have the same valid point.

 

[Case]

if thats your argument then surely smokers have the same valid point.

No they don`t and thats the point, smokers damage non smokers health, non smokers do not damage smokers health.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Well, tehcnically it IS your choice to go into a smoking place.

You're so hostile, some of the non-smokers need a smoke for f*cks sake

 

[WiiWii]

We had the same heated (lol) arguments here in sweden before the ban. But after the ban most people realised they liked it _even_ smokers.

Atleast the smokers that only smoke when they hit the pub/clubs, they smoke less (my friends atleast dont know about the entire nation). The people working in pubs/clubs health is much better, some goverment studies. Cant be healthy working in that kind of enviroment.

my to 2 cents

 

[Svartmetall]

Well, tehcnically it IS your choice to go into a smoking place.

At what point did smokers get to take over and say it was 'their' place?

 

[Everz]

Well, who cares tbh, just a case of waiting until July 1st. Until then, I'll have to do with no-smoking pubs.

After that I'll just s****** quietly at the addicts trying to light up in the rain.

Oh ffs - that word is s*n*i*g*g*e*r and nothing rude^^

o so now even the white man dont want my brothers to be welcome on the internet, what you want us in the trees motherfuckers, s******.. s******.. man that rough..

bad lmilitiant black guy try.. ;<

 

[Everz]

How the fuck can you argue against it!

You're smoking damages us. I don't give a shit if you smoked if it didn't damage me but it does and that = wrong.

yet if your driving in a car your damaging my health, thats wrong so stop.. good logic

 

[Iceforge]

Nah. A lot of smokers have this attitude of "we're free to smoke; you're free to go somewhere else." It's a double-standard. Their freedom is more important than others' freedom.

And the double standard of them having to leave because you want the freedom to choose for yourself is not thinking you are more imporant than the smokers freedom???

My god, is anti-smokers the most ignorant bunch of wussies ever...

I agree that it will be nice when pubs go non-smoking due to the ban, I don't mind having to go outside for my cigs, not at all, but in all fairness of rightness, it should have been up to the pub owners to do so...

Where I live, we have a street where EVERY single house is a pub/disco, none of them non-smoking... so, if there is a BUSINESS for non-smoking pubs because it is HIGHLY REQUESTED, some of them WOULD have changed already to pull higher revenue...

None of the places have entrance fees, so if ONE PLACE went non smoking and it was indeed HIGHLY REQUESTED and WANTED by the anti-smoking bunch, it would get PACKED every night and be the most SUCCESSFUL place on the street..

you got to wonder why it didn't happen then.. oh, yes, I know, because if they did, you wouldn't go there anyway because you wanted to be EVERY WHERE and have the FREEDOM to choose, whatever YOU WANT and everybody got to obey the rules you need to have the best time, or they can sod off?

Sorry, but I have NEVER heard a good argument from the anti-smoking community for why it is not up to the establishments to do so.

Feel free to take my example of a The Street here in my town and try and justify a smoking ban, because I know you can't...

Oh, 1 thing I do remember now, which might have been said by one of the anti-smoking bunch and which is the single reason I don't mind having to go outside, is courtesy to the employees of the establishments which don't nesecarrily get to choose where to be that night...

 

[Congax]

Let's type some WORDS in caps to EXAGGERATE arguments.

Where I live, we have a street where EVERY single house is a pub/disco, none of them non-smoking... so, if there is a BUSINESS for non-smoking pubs because it is HIGHLY REQUESTED, some of them WOULD have changed already to pull higher revenue...

Do all these pubs/discos play the same kind of music then? Are they all decorated exactly the same? Is lightning in one just the same as in any other? Oh wait .. Heck, that doesn't matter. It's no smoking/non-smoking that decides where to go out, right!

you got to wonder why it didn't happen then.. oh, yes, I know, because if they did, you wouldn't go there anyway because you wanted to be EVERY WHERE and have the FREEDOM to choose, whatever YOU WANT and everybody got to obey the rules you need to have the best time, or they can sod off?

Why is it always the non-smoker, the one who has committed no intrusion that has to quietly get up and move when someone next to them lights up? For years now non-smokers have had to endure the unpleasant inhaling of stale cigarette smoke or coming home smelling like the inside of a dirty ash tray and for those people that have to work under these conditions, in bars or restaurants, the situation is even more exacerbated, as they have no escape.
A ban would not only improve the lives of us non-smokers but would encourage those causing the problem to help themselves

 

[Urgluf]

its horrible when someone is blowing smoke at you.

Edited for truth.

 

[Iceforge]

Let's type some WORDS in caps to EXAGGERATE arguments.

Okay, if you dont like me using caps to show my point, fine, not really an argument against me, but seems to bother you that I don't type like you do, Mr. Standard

Do all these pubs/discos play the same kind of music then? Are they all decorated exactly the same? Is lightning in one just the same as in any other? Oh wait .. Heck, that doesn't matter. It's no smoking/non-smoking that decides where to go out, right!

Good point, to be honest, good question, no... They surely do not play the same music, and they are not decorated the same way.

For the decoration, I cannot argue against it, so if your primary reason for going somewhere is not the people, not the smoking rules, not the music but the decorations, my only argument, vague as it might be, is to redecorate your home and enjoy it 24/7.

That being said, no matter what music taste you are into, there is 3 or more places to go, with very few excepitons, all main music interest groups for "party" going is cover a dozen of places, so if we have 2 Techno disco's, then why don't one of them change into non-smoking, I might be tempted to ask, seeing as all the non-smokers should be going there then?

Why do the non-smokers (if we take the consideration to the bar-staff out of the picture) have to have the option of going to both places that play excatly the same kind of music, have the same prices on refreshments and the same space aviable, instead of sharing it in an even way?
But no, we can't let the club-owners do it and request them to change it enough for this to happen, lets get the goverment to make both into non-smokers, then those filthy non-smokers can learn <insert evil anti-smoker laughter>

I would have personally loved if the clubowners had done the shifting and had 1 with smoking allowed and one with it banned, but apperently the anti-smokers did not feel strong enough for it to request it directly to the club-owners.

In the case of the this particular street, almost half the pubs/discos is owned by the same person, so getting him to change it would probarly have been extremely easy by argumentation, as it would not threaten his revenue greatly to give it a try freely, but still the anti-smokers apperently never stressed it enough to him / used the time to convince him.

Why is it always the non-smoker, the one who has committed no intrusion that has to quietly get up and move when someone next to them lights up?

I haven't said that, but anti-smokers like you are basicly telling me so;
NO, you can't have a sealed section to sit in
NO, you can't have a bar/pub/disco AT ALL with the rules you want
NO, you cannot sit in a comfortable sofa with a drink and a cig in a club, GO OUTSIDE!

As I have pointed out, in this and my previous post, I don't mind the ban out of courtesy to the employees, but the anti-smokers who visit the places can kiss my ass to be honest.
If they feel so extremely strongly about it and hate it to the bone as they claim now, then they could have taken actions that would benifit them and not harm the rest of us, like:

1. Mass-mail the managers requesting a few/some/many non-smoking pubs/bars, if the managers see a big enough demand, they will provide, basic economics!

2. Open their own clubs/bars/pubs and have non-smoking rules there and benifit from the, apperently, hordes of people who would now only visit their place

Still, this didn't happen and you seem to blame smokers for the lack of non-smoking alternatives, while it is completly your own fault.

For years now non-smokers have had to endure the unpleasant inhaling of stale cigarette smoke or coming home smelling like the inside of a dirty ash tray and for those people that have to work under these conditions, in bars or restaurants, the situation is even more exacerbated, as they have no escape.
A ban would not only improve the lives of us non-smokers but would encourage those causing the problem to help themselves

Can't argue against facts, it is true that you had to endure it for years, but in my view and as I argued for previously, it was your own damn fault that you had not alternatives.

Also, what is up with the twisted view of "help themselves"?
Basicly it is that view of smokers being bad bad bad and sick people that causes you to go this far, I don't understand why anti-smokers have to insist on smokers being a lower lifeform than yourselves?

And on a notice that will seem odd when I am willing to show them courtesy, it could also be argued than when it has been like this for years / always, then those who took the jobs at the bars knew what they was letting themselves into and shouldn't complain.

 

[Bugz]

Iceforge if you followed the idea of different shops for smokers/anti-smokers then you're going to hit the line of 'where do we stop?'

Separate pubs? Restaurants? Fast food outlets?

Different parts of council-owned locations? Beaches? Parks?

A complete overhaul would be needed when in fact - it is easier for the government (having the most power in the UK) to enforce one truncated law that protects the anti-smokers.

Why should I be forced to inhale your poison? Should a pint of beer in the pub come with a free-stench of smoke on my clothes and the inhaling of second hand smoke?

You can still smoke in your own homes. There has been no invasion of privacy - just taking away foolish privileages (sp?) that were originally given to you.

Unfortunately, this issue won't stop the foolish twats that smoke around children and the ever-increasing trend of smoking during pregnency to make the delievery less painful. But it is a start.

@Eversmallx - what kind of arguement is that?

Going by your standard of pollution being banned/being in the same league as smoking, we would have to somehow prohibit/ban:

Paints
Pesticides (bye bye farming industry)
Cleaning supplies
Glues/adhesives
Permanent Markers

etc.

Oohhhh and carpets - are you happy to live without any carpets?

Whereas smoking is a much simplier arguement. It does not benefit us economically/personally in any ways other than huge taxes and possibly reducing stress etc. Then again, we're not banning it - we're simply prohibiting it's use around others - because it is damaging to them as well as you.

----

Not that the ban in public places will cause much damage to the smoking industry. People will still buy smokes, they will still stink of smoke, they will still be killing themselves quicker - except they won't harm others whilst they do it.

 

[Iceforge]

Iceforge if you followed the idea of different shops for smokers/anti-smokers then you're going to hit the line of 'where do we stop?'

Separate pubs? Restaurants? Fast food outlets?

Different parts of council-owned locations? Beaches? Parks?

A complete overhaul would be needed when in fact - it is easier for the government (having the most power in the UK) to enforce one truncated law that protects the anti-smokers.

Why should I be forced to inhale your poison? Should a pint of beer in the pub come with a free-stench of smoke on my clothes and the inhaling of second hand smoke?

You can still smoke in your own homes. There has been no invasion of privacy - just taking away foolish privileages (sp?) that were originally given to you.

Unfortunately, this issue won't stop the foolish twats that smoke around children and the ever-increasing trend of smoking during pregnency to make the delievery less painful. But it is a start.

@Eversmallx - what kind of arguement is that?

Going by your standard of pollution being banned/being in the same league as smoking, we would have to somehow prohibit/ban:

Paints
Pesticides (bye bye farming industry)
Cleaning supplies
Glues/adhesives
Permanent Markers

etc.

Oohhhh and carpets - are you happy to live without any carpets?

Whereas smoking is a much simplier arguement. It does not benefit us economically/personally in any ways other than huge taxes and possibly reducing stress etc. Then again, we're not banning it - we're simply prohibiting it's use around others - because it is damaging to them as well as you.

----

Not that the ban in public places will cause much damage to the smoking industry. People will still buy smokes, they will still stink of smoke, they will still be killing themselves quicker - except they won't harm others whilst they do it.

I am just trying to argue with the anti smokers, I don't know why you are so blind when you argue?

My point is simply that the two arguments posted by both extremes are both just as ridiculus as each other:

You have the option to stay home and smoke and then you will not harm others with your poison!

You have the option to stay home and avoid the smoke and not be harmed by second hand smoke!

Why should ANYONE give up their FREEDOM to go out and HAVE A FUN TIME just because SOMEONE else have trouble HANDLING something about them???

And no, I dont know where is should stop, or atleast I cannot be the judge of it, as I wear no illussion that I am all-knowing, but there are no shops here in Denmark where you are allowed to smoke inside, only pubs/bars/restuarants, and there are even completly non-smoker restaurants, I have yet to see a non-smoker pub/bar for some odd reason, apperently because those who are passionate about it is not passionate about getting a non smoking place, they are blinded by some odd feeling of needing revenge of those that smoke and hence need to ban it from all public places.

I know many non-smokers see me and judge me to be dumb and stupid for having choosen this, but to be honest, when I hear and see anti-smokers actions, I must admit I judge them too, cause thinking like that is plain stupid and moronic.

And your queen argument is that it is EASIER to do a goverment ban, sure it is, but since when is easy = best?

And since when is children in bars and pubs?

I will not even start to argue on the restaurant issue of this matter as I completly understand people wanting a ban on 2nd hand smoke while eating, when I go to restuarants with friends who are non smokers I either step outside the restaurant or go to a section where nobody is seated and smoking is allowed for my cigs.

EDIT: YES, Mr. Congax, I did caps some words again, this is just my way of typing, live with it!

 

[Congax]

I'll live with it, thanks for pointing it out tho

I admit, Iceforge, you are in theory quite right. But you know as well as one other that this is rather impossible practically thinking.

If only we could all live with eachother

 

[chretien]

Iceforge you're talking bollocks.
Me and my mates like to go out of an evening and piss on people. I don't think it's fair that we aren't allowed to do that any more, if people didn't want to be pissed all over then they can stay at home surely?

No-one is saying that smokers can't go out and enjoy themselves, just that if they want to smoke, they have to go outside. I don't know many smokers that are smoking the whole time. People who don't smoke on the other hand can now enjoy their night out fully without being poisoned by other people against their will. Those few who like to poison themselves can still do it, they just aren't allowed to affect other people any more with it.

 

[Iceforge]

I'll live with it, thanks for pointing it out tho

I admit, Iceforge, you are in theory quite right. But you know as well as one other that this is rather impossible practically thinking.

If only we could all live with eachother

impossible in other places, perhaps...

But I take my view from the city I live in and it would be easily doable here with the street (it is actually called the street in daily speech) where we have, hmm, guessing around 50 pubs/pars/discos crowded so closely together.

In a city with a total of 2 or 3 places to go friday night it might be closer to impossible, but that is why I still think it should be up to the owners of the places.

As a norm, as it is now, you can always boycut and protest the place to get your will through, wont go into more detail about it again as I dont want to repeat myself to much...

It just seems unfair that when it becomes law, smokers will not even have the option to open a place with smoking allowed...

Surely I already know how to evade the practical effects of the law and if I wasn't a poor student I would open a smoking pub the day the ban was put in effect, but that is because I know my jura and how to use the laws of society to my advantage, it is a workable, still troublesome way to make it work if you want a smoking bar:
Make it private with open offered membership, buy a machine to make keycards to the door and sell access to the club for a nominal charge of the price the keycard cost to make and voila, allowed smoking... workable, but not as easily doable as just opening a place and say "non-smoker"...

 

[Congax]

Me and my mates like to go out of an evening and piss on people. I don't think it's fair that we aren't allowed to do that any more, if people didn't want to be pissed all over then they can stay at home surely?

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to chretien again.

 

[Iceforge]

Iceforge you're talking bollocks.
Me and my mates like to go out of an evening and piss on people. I don't think it's fair that we aren't allowed to do that any more, if people didn't want to be pissed all over then they can stay at home surely?

No-one is saying that smokers can't go out and enjoy themselves, just that if they want to smoke, they have to go outside. I don't know many smokers that are smoking the whole time. People who don't smoke on the other hand can now enjoy their night out fully without being poisoned by other people against their will. Those few who like to poison themselves can still do it, they just aren't allowed to affect other people any more with it.

Still, you are fully by law supported to open your own public place where people are allowed to piss on each other if you want to do it, but I cannnot freely open a public place where people can smoke...

 

[Huntingtons]

Tbh that's one of the things I enjoy the most.. Call up a few guys and girls and go to the local, have a pint or two while enjoying my cigs! I find it cosy and something that's just a part of my every day life. I don't see my addiction to cigs as much of a physical addiction as a mental addiction..

When the smoking ban arrives I'll be missing sitting in a pub/café just drinking my beer/coffee while talking to some of my friends in a relaxed enviroment while having a smoke. Ofc I understand the ppl who doesn't smoke, but I'll be missing it any who

i think "det rene glas" will go unaffected... <3 that place, any space smaller than 45m2 is allowed i think Oo

 

[old.Tohtori]

It's pointless to argue really, but i'll say this:

When this rolls on, i swear to gods, if i ever hear from a non smokey person "This place ain't as popular as it used to be" or "It's a lot more quiet these days here" or some other sh*t like that, i'll go mental.

By the way, does anyone have some proof that pubsmoke has 'caused some deaths? Isn't the second hand smoke thingies been from people who live in smoke basicly.

 

[WiiWii]

It's pointless to argue really, but i'll say this:

When this rolls on, i swear to gods, if i ever hear from a non smokey person "This place ain't as popular as it used to be" or "It's a lot more quiet these days here" or some other sh*t like that, i'll go mental.

By the way, does anyone have some proof that pubsmoke has 'caused some deaths?

I thought you already where crazy :touch:
:worthy:

 

[Ormorof]

the whole "freedom of choice" argument is bullshit, for both smokers and non-smokers, imo its more about forcing your bad habits on other people, for example wouldn't you complain if someone came and burped in your face every time they burped? or wiped the snot they've just picked out of their noses on your clothes?

thats what us non-smokers have to put up with breathing in something we find foul and ending up smelling foul for the sake of a bunch of people who could quite easily go outside and not affect anyone but themselves