Anti-preclaim

[fade-]

I still can't get over this selfish anti-preclaim attitude by what seems like most of hib!
Don't the ppl who put in all the hard work deserve something for their trouble, making a nice well planned raid where all u have to do it turn up not to mention dealing with all the agro u can get for ur effort <see kama>

Yes a most raids are fun just being there but the result is a bag full of items and if every1 really isn't that bothered about items why are they so bothered about the 1 person who put in 4 times more effort than ne1 else choosing something for them self’s!?

If preclaim was standard policy u would see a lot more raids happening by all those ppl who need that 1 last drop and ofc the item whores (but let them horde if they put in the work) and the regular raid leaders getting some kind of thanks (even on a really good raid u’ve be surprised at the amount of ppl who actually say “thank you”… usually the 1s with the drops at the end). Why is every1 so bothered about 1 drop 90% of them won't want neway or giving up their 1:20 chance of getting that item…?

U tip the waitress who give u 5 mins of her time bringing food to ur table but u give the raid leader who could spend 10 hours on a raid nothing!... the only conclusion I can come to is selfishness!

I've lead a few raids in my time, some I've preclaimed, some I've not (usually cus we needed ppl and they wouldn't come otherwise), vgn usually preclaim on our raids as we supply 2fg not to mention all the other raid leading hassles and we want to ensure our guild benefits which is fair enough? Lately I've taken to saying there will be not claims at the start of the raid then at the end asking every1 if they mind me claiming X item for leading the raid, which ofc most ppl say "no go ahead" cus its not so easy to be so bluntly selfish to some1s face.

Can ne1 give a good reason why preclaim is unfair?

PS: Looking for another guild who can supply 2 balanced grps to do regular pve raids (usually galla). Both guilds get to choose 1 item out of the drops, if both want the same item then it can be lottoed 50/50 and the looser can choose again (not fixed on these rules btw).

 

[llixeraxu]

Join a small guild and see if you feel the same.

 

[Dinfar]

I gotta agree, claiming an item is fair imo.

Originally posted by llixeraxu
Join a small guild and see if you feel the same.

I cant speak for fade, but im sure he would.
In a small guild, you can still make galla raids.

 

[llixeraxu]

You VGN Dinfar?

 

[<Harle>]

Pre-claim raids always leave the following impression of the raid-leader for me:
"I'm only doing this because I want that drop. As soon as I get that drop I don't give a flying fuck about the rest of the raid, and sure as hell I won't do any further raids, unless I want some other drop."

Noone can kill those mobs alone, and everyone contributes to the actual raid. If you want to preclaim sth you might aswell ask people to "help you get that item" instead of asking them to "join a xyz-raid".

 

[old.Garax]

I dont have a problem with pre-claims, especially with a dungeon like Galladoria, when with a good raid you can easily have 15+ items, but i do think that to be fair on the other people there the pre-claim should be stated before the raid is made. I don't think it's fair that the raid leader should just choose the best item for themselves or their guild, so stating before the raid should stop this problem.

Being in a smaller guild shouldnt be a problem for people, as you can still put together a well balanced group and join, and out of 15 items you would only be able to lotto for 14 (if the stated item even dropped, which isnt exactly being screwed over). Also it's not impossible to organise a raid, just takes a bit of planning, and then you or a guild mate can pre-claim.

Organising a raid though is a head fuck and i do think the person who organises the raid deserves a chance to get the item they were after when they first organised the raid, as they probably wouldn't do the raids unless there was something they were after.

Anyway, just my thoughts.

 

[Dinfar]

Originally posted by llixeraxu
You VGN Dinfar?

yes i am

 

[Lessurl]

I agree with Garax. Preclaim is fine imo so long as the item that is being claimed is stated upfront. The raid leader should be entitled to some form of compensation for having organised the raid and put up with all the hassles that go with it. However it should be stated upfront what item that is going to be, so that others who perhaps only want to go to galla to get that item wont have to waste their time for zero chance of getting what they want/need.
Saying that, i would probably still go on a raid where the item i might want was preclaimed if i thought i would enjoy the actual raid. Last galla raid i was on was a fade raid and i quite enjoyed the non-zergy approach. Even though nothing dropped that i remotely wanted.

 

[Gesp]

Why should i help some 'big boyz' to get their toys and win nothing? Xp? Crap gold? lol.

If u cant win it by your luck, either dont have it or join more raids, just simple and fair.

 

[boni_ofdavoid]

Win or lose I am I damn sure I say thanks to whoever runs any half decent raid. These people get a lot of rubbish for the effort they put in, sorting out 50 - 100 people bickering over drops is no mean feat not to mention the raid itself...

One preclaim for a raid leader is only fair imo.

 

[-Nuked-]

either 1 preclaim made b 4 the raid starts (and if it doesnt drop you can bid on an item like a normal groupy)
or you can bid on 2 items or random 100 twice for 1 item! seems fair enough 2 me!
if everyone knows what your claiming b 4 the raid begins then everyone will stay happy (or they wouldnt be there.)

the problem is preclaiming item after they have droped! thats not preclaim ... that claim. and thats not fair because people may have come on that raid for that 1 item and 3hours into the raid they find out that they are there for nothing. this is especially the case where there is only a limited amount of items in the lotto that you are allowed to bid for or that would help you, all the non cookie cutters!

 

[Ravenbourne]

I agree, pre claim is fair, Kama isnt doing raids anymore (after Saturday) because of the crap the raid leader has to put up with. Everyone wants to leave with something which is understandable but you have to work for what you want if that means going on another raid fair enough. But its when people complain "i didnt get a drop" or "i have a friend of an alt who has this guildie who could use that item, can i bid?" If an item doesnt fit your SC or your class cant use it etc dont start throwing your toys about like a 2 year old. Some people in this realm are far to loot horny.

Whos going to put these kind of raids on in future if all the people who do it now give up?

You have to go by the rules of the raid, if you dont like them, dont go

 

[Vantros]

only person with a right to preclaim should be raid leader.. and as for all the peeps saying we should pre claim.. fuck that shit.. i aint goin to have some upety snot nose tosser get a drop over me cos he was in the right guild. and saying its selfish just shows u have the lowest IQ of anyone i have ever met... im amazed at how stupid u can be to say that.... either learn the meaning of selfish or stfu.

U wanna preclaim then fine and anyone who wants to run through galla without a chance of getting anything can do so... but if u do i bet u whine like a 4 year old when a drop u want drops and goes to someone else without u haveing a chance of getting it.

Sorry preclaim is not fair.. and only people who are greedy and up thier own arses go on such raids.. cos they are afraid they wont win the item they want in a fair game of random chance.
Obvisously Hib is reaching a new low if thats the case, then u wonder why peeps leave to go to mid or alb.. u just answered your own question.

 

[-Dreama-]

My feelings on pre-claim and why I don't do them.
I am no better than anyone else in the realm.
I do not deserve an item more than anyone else in the realm reguardless of my efforts.
I feel like pre-claims are telling your fellow realm mates that you have more of a right or are better than them, and I totally 100% without a doubt do NOT agree with that.

If you want to pre-claim on your hunts, that's fine with me, but I won't be joining that hunt.

selfish anti-preclaim attitude

I seriously think you need to re-think this statement. NO pre-claims are the polar opposite of selfish.

 

[old.Laryssa]

if claiming then do it upfront (and then you will see how many hibernian support that).

that doing /random 100 twice for 1 item sounds like a good idea

 

[sheph]

Hello. Im in VGN but i have my own oppinions.

I for myself cba to set up a raid. To much hassle and takes too much time. Therefore im very grateful to whomever make raids. I have never had any problems with lotto rules... bein in small or big guild. I mostly tag along for the occasional chance on a funneh item and to be with my friends.

Look at the dragon raids as an example. Clearly preclaim raids, each group get 2 stones and Saadyst keeps the rest.
But who cba to do a dragon raid ? Not me

Plz just do more raids. If its preclaim, so what ? It will benefit the whole realm.

 

[Asq]

my 2 cents

Just looking at all trhe work being done up front I say a raid leader should be able to pre-claim. This being honest or not doesn'At matter imo, it's a bonus for all the effort put in. I clearly do not favor pre-claiming by anyone else then the raid-leader.

 

[Tyka]

Originally posted by <Harle>
Pre-claim raids always leave the following impression of the raid-leader for me:
"I'm only doing this because I want that drop. As soon as I get that drop I don't give a flying fuck about the rest of the raid, and sure as hell I won't do any further raids, unless I want some other drop."

lol this is bullshit, tell me _ONE_ name of a person who do raids for the realm, and not for himself or guild.

Everyone do things in this game to build up their chars/help their friends, no one cares about what random_guy_xx1 gets that could help the realm.

You see it from the other side imo, the one who should be rewarded mostly for doing raids for 50 other people is the raid leader himself, after that comes everyone else who helped him finishing the raid.

But i guess some people just like to show up and whine when they don't get what they want.

 

[-Dreama-]

lol this is bullshit, tell me _ONE_ name of a person who do raids for the realm, and not for himself or guild.

<raises hand>
I've done raids where I haven't even lottoed for anything. When the kick ass bard cloack dropped, I didn't lotto cuz I got something out of the last 2 raids.

I do my hunts for the realm, I do them so that people can walk away having had a good time and maybe a drop out of it.

I lay the saem rules on myself and my guild mates as I do the general population of Hibernia.

Please, don't say that everyone does hunts for their own selfish gain, because it simply isn't true.

 

[Tyka]

Pre-claiming

Pre claiming is ok as long as everyone have a chance to win an item, if a raid leader claims something that takes away the rights for someone else to lotto for an item is wrong.

Everyone should have a chance to lotto for something, and the raid leader should be rewarded in a way or another for helping these people who show up on the raid to finish it.

And there is no such thing as "helping the realm", a sword wont help people in defending hibernia in anyones hand, these things are just for fun, flashy things that are like throphys.

I can understand that people don't accept pre-claim on legion raid wich is only rewarded with 4 good items, and the organisation time put by the raid leader is minimal.

Comparing with galladoria, there is alot of things need to be done, and the reward is much greater, a succesful raid with 4fgs can give you 15-25 drops, and if a leader who organised all those groups through that gets 1 item is no biggie, imo.

 

[-Dreama-]

helping the realm

Fun...agood experiance...a sense of togeatherness in the realm on any lvl...
All these things in my opinion are helping the realm. Helping the realm doesn't mean ONLY helping in killing albs/mids...imo

 

[Vantros]

errrm plz go and find out the meaning of pre.. and then claim.. u just defined it said it was wrong.. then mixed yourself up about it???
How can someone have a chance to win the item if its pre-claimed???
I'm sorry but being Scottish with a degree in Computational Maths i must be missing something..

 

[Tyka]

Originally posted by -Dreama-
Please, don't say that everyone does hunts for their own selfish gain, because it simply isn't true.

From what i've read on these forums you are stopping doing your raids, and you been doing how many.. 5-6 ? Not that experienced with raids and it seems like as soon as 1 guy puts his foot wrong he will be banned from them.

When you done it for over 3-4 months (like Censi), then you can come here and talk about your "raids".

And btw, everyone is out for something, you mentioned yourself that you were out after a bard sword/vest, i guess how long you would do your raids after that ...

 

[Vantros]

go to alb and ask there how many raids Dreama done... i think you'd be pretty embaressed by that statement since she done all raids of every kind in Alb....

 

[Tyka]

Originally posted by Vantros
errrm plz go and find out the meaning of pre.. and then claim.. u just defined it said it was wrong.. then mixed yourself up about it???
How can someone have a chance to win the item if its pre-claimed???
I'm sorry but being Scottish with a degree in Computational Maths i must be missing something..

If you deciede to claim one item, and in the end it shows up that if you claim this, 1 or more people cant lotto for anything, that would be wrong imo..

Clear enough for your "degree in Computational Maths" ??

 

[Tyka]

Originally posted by Vantros
go to alb and ask there how many raids Dreama done... i think you'd be pretty embaressed by that statement since she done all raids of every kind in Alb....

Afaik we are playing in hibernia, if you are having problems with pre claims in alb maybe you can go on and moan there instead, this is a constructive thread dont spam it with your crap, unless you want to post your opinion about pre claims..

 

[-Dreama-]

From what i've read on these forums you are stopping doing your raids, and you been doing how many.. 5-6 ? Not that experienced with raids and it seems like as soon as 1 guy puts his foot wrong he will be banned from them.

Keep reading, I'm still doing my hunts.

When you done it for over 3-4 months (like Censi), then you can come here and talk about your "raids".

Ok, in Hib yes, I've done about 8-9 raids. In alb, couldn't count the number of hunts I've done, far too many.

And btw, everyone is out for something, you mentioned yourself that you were out after a bard sword/vest, i guess how long you would do your raids after that ...

Got my blade, is the only thing I really want from Galla tbh, don't need the vest, I have SC'd in vault I'll use when I'm ready for it.
Still doing my raids, so , yeah, we'll see how long I do them.

Is it really so hard for you to believe that some people are not like you, and do not have an agenda on the side for everything they do?
You really want to know WHY I do Galla raids? I'll tell you, I do them because I like them, they're fun up untill the lotto starts, I like the people I go with and enjoy their company. So yeah, I suppose I do the raids for my own selfish gain...pleasure.

 

[Vantros]

yes very clear.. now put it in the right context cos a bard can only lotto for a bard item if the raid leader pre-claims the bard sword and its the only thing that drops then the bards have NO chance to lotto for it... i think you'll find if u think about it those rules dont always work out for the best.. pre-claims fine and danddy if peeps are willing to go on a raid that they have no chance of geting the one item they are probably in there for..

 

[Demolay]

What makes a "Raid Leader" ?
Is it:

a) Someone who posts .... hey there's a raid at xxx with yyy
b) Someone who knows where to go what to do and how to do it?

Not aimed at anyone, just curious.

 

[Vantros]

well Tyka i am pointing out that this isnt the first set of raids shes done in order to assist u in removeing your over sized foot from your oriphus.... u obviously are posting without due thought.. I stated that in reference to u saying shes done very few raids in her time.. well im pointing out shes done many raids.. may not be here but shes done em and has the experience....

anyway off to a funeral.. when i get back i hope this has cleared up cos i WONT be in the mood.. and my leash will be off and ready for a fight!