No idea Another fork stuck in the road.....

[Raven]

So does pure socialism. If everyone decided not to work or just do what they enjoyed/felt like, society would literally collapse.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Nothing that I love, at all, pays money in this economy.

Sounds rather awful if you don't have anything you enjoy enough to make a career out of.

What do you enjoy then?

 

[Himse]

Sounds rather awful if you don't have anything you enjoy enough to make a career out of.

What do you enjoy then?

Probably browsing FH.

 

[Scouse]

So does pure socialism.

Dunno why people insist on thinking I'm a commie/socialist.

People must have a mental block which prevents them from imagining that there are more than two possible ways of organising a society.

 

[old.Tohtori]

People must have a mental block which prevents them from imagining that there are more than two possible ways of organising a society.

*cough* Sorry, but that's rather an ironic statement considering your stance on some "issues"

 

[Scouse]

*cough* Sorry, but that's rather an ironic statement considering your stance on some "issues"

I don't think so, considering my stance on communism and socialism is that they're abhorrent systems. Just like capitalism.

 

[old.Tohtori]

What i meant is that, akin your post above, you must have a mental block which prevents you from seeing religious people in any other light then one.

That's all

But not about that, what do you like doing? I'm really curious on what it is since you say there's no money in it.

 

[Raven]

Result!

 

[Chilly]

What i meant is that, akin your post above, you must have a mental block which prevents you from seeing religious people in any other light then one.

That's all

But not about that, what do you like doing? I'm really curious on what it is since you say there's no money in it.

NO TOHT. STOP DERAILING! BAD TOHT.

 

[DaGaffer]

Sounds rather awful if you don't have anything you enjoy enough to make a career out of.

What do you enjoy then?

I'd say you're describing 90% of humanity. Most people don't even enjoy their work, never mind love it. There have been times when I've loved my work, and got enormous satisfaction out of it, but I'd be amazed if any one gets to love their work all the time.

Back on topic, whilst loving your work is a nice to have, long term prospects have to be a big consideration. Programming is actually a mature industry at this point (and hence heavily outsourced), to the extent that 30 years from now there may not even be programmers in the currently recognised sense. On the other hand, the search for mineral wealth isn't going to go away at all. Of course it means you'll probably end up working for the Chinese (but then won't we all?) and visiting some of the world's more exotic hellholes (I would imagine deserts and tundra would feature large on your "Where I've Been" Facebook Status), but personally I'd say that beats sitting behind a desk in Watford.

 

[old.Tohtori]

NO TOHT. STOP DERAILING! BAD TOHT.

Aww

I'd say you're describing 90% of humanity. Most people don't even enjoy their work, never mind love it. There have been times when I've loved my work, and got enormous satisfaction out of it, but I'd be amazed if any one gets to love their work all the time.

I think it's more towards people settling on a job then going through thick and thin to get what they want regarding their paycheck supplier.

 

[Jeros]

Ill probs apply for the Aussie Visa as soon as, I am not bothered about doing a job I dislike if I can live in Australia, I can retrain maybe a few years down the road when the money is in the back as I will probably never marry or have kids.

I just need to get away from here.

Every time I hear about my multimillionaire buddy being treated like shit, or his family disrespected for their working class roots, I die a little inside.

I really thought we were past all this, even being part middle class public schoolboy that I am

 

[Poag]

Unfortunately OldMoney doesn't mesh well with NewMoney. Also alot of NewMoney are jerks

 

[opticle]

Aww
I think it's more towards people settling on a job then going through thick and thin to get what they want regarding their paycheck supplier.

I think these days it is very difficult - you have no idea what career you are getting into or what to expect - it doesn't matter if you enjoy the material in the academic sense, the job is completely different. And it takes at least 3 years to get there with the degree for a skilled/professional career.

Plus the drive is to get you into that career as young as possible, without having a broad range of experience. That makes it very hard to "get it right".

Coupled with the fact that if you take your time and have a broad range of experience, you are more often than not punished for it these days.

Consequently I think it's pretty damn difficult to go through thick and thin to get what you want, especially when you consider loved ones, families, loans and mortgages.

I wouldn't be surprised if there's been a rise in people who aren't happy with their jobs, but stick with it because they can get by and they don't have a lot of choice.

 

[old.Tohtori]

You can easily find out what to expect by asking around.

Family etc, it's a choice. Having a family, kids, etc will mean you will limit your own pursuits. It negates any "i wanted to be X" comments completely as it was a personal choice to do so. Same goes with loans, mortgages and to be fair if your loves ones tell you that you have to do X, their opinion isn't worth sh*t.

If you like to do something and want a career out of it, you might have to eat rice and water for 10 years, but you'll get there if you lean on it enough.

 

[opticle]

You can easily find out what to expect by asking around.

Not true, that is literally worth nothing compared to real experience.

If you like to do something and want a career out of it, you might have to eat rice and water for 10 years, but you'll get there if you lean on it enough.

Again, not possible for many people, particularly those who have grown up in difficult families and hard times. Their options were limited from the time they were a kid, and so it affects what they can do with the rest of their life. There's a lot more to it is all I'm saying, some people don't have the choice you're saying they do. And what about if you get there and realise it's not what you hoped ? I know programming, mathematics and research is that beast for quite a few people.

Family etc, it's a choice. Having a family, kids, etc will mean you will limit your own pursuits. It negates any "i wanted to be X" comments completely as it was a personal choice to do so.

So you're saying that if you have a family, loan or mortgage you should just shut the fuck up and put up? Or ditch it all to "go through thick and thin" like you said?
Like I said, sometimes you don't have a choice - and things change that weren't apparent when you made those choices 5-10 years ago. So you have to put up with something you don't enjoy so much to get by - it isn't that person's fault or any particular failing on their part, its just the way things turned. So you don't always have that option to "go through thick and thin" as you said - I think our choice and control in our lives is often very limited and when it comes to a professional career, perhaps more so these days than the past, as everything requires specialists and experts with a very narrow field of experience.

You're generalising too much is all I'm saying

 

[old.Tohtori]

I'm talking of experience as i did just that to get into a lead designer position in a game company.

Had nothing to do with my past, i had a very minimal resource pool to start up from, i knew exactly what i was getting into by finding out about the job, i didn't let other things get in the way and i spent over 5 years to get into the industry to start with, not to mention 10 more to climb up to where i am. Hell, i didn't even have a school to go to for it, but self-taught every single thing.

If i wanted to be a banker, or a farmer, or a fireman, or anything else that isn't limited by height(or other such unchangable feature) then i would've achieved it too.

And yes, if you chose to have a mortgage, take a loan, or start a family then those things aren't limitations that you can use as excuses.

Only exceptions to the rule, aside physical and mental problems, are if you're living in a dictatorship, or a third world country that you absolutely -can't- get out of.

My options were "limited", but i worked to get around them.

 

[opticle]

My options were "limited", but i worked to get around them.

I'm making assumptions, but I'm pretty sure you weren't limited in the way a lot of inner-city kids are in London But either way, congrats and good for you

All I'm saying is life is often more complicated than you anticipate when you are younger, and not everyone is gifted with superhuman foresight or knowing what they want to do - that takes time and experience. In the past it seems like it was much easier to be flexible with that, but these days it is very easy to be "locked in" to one particular path - unless you're willing to make a lot of difficult sacrifices. For a lot of people it is very hard to find something you really enjoy as a job - if you have, then you are very lucky.

Meh.

Anyway, on topic: OP, what decision did you make?