an eye for an eye?

[Shagrat]

totally shocked by this one, surely it can't be something they'd seriously consider?

BBC News - Saudi man 'faces spine-op punishment'

 

[Mabs]

dont see a problem tbh mate

they still execute people over there, so you want to be beheaded, or use a wheelchair the rest of your life ?

and its a surgical thing , no ? its not like theyre going to tie him to a table and hit him with a sledgehammer

<didnt have time to read it properly, so dont know if it was an attack or an accident which might effect it>

 

[Chilly]

barbaric, yet annoyingly satisfying.

 

[throdgrain]

I couldnt care less one way or the other, I'd sooner worry about things closer to home.

 

[Chilly]

I couldnt care less one way or the other, I'd sooner worry about things closer to home.

also a very good point. Lets sort our own woes out before we go abroad trying to impose our morals.

 

[Mauness]

as its their law's we shouldnt interfear and expect them to stop it for us.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Nuke them and take their women!

No wait

We need a man-nuke that targets only men.

 

[Aada]

I couldnt care less one way or the other, I'd sooner worry about things closer to home.

QFT

Who really gives a shit eh?

I rarely watch or read the news and i don't even buy a paper simply because i really do not care what goes on unless it's within my circile of friends/family anything else is not important.

 

[Bugz]

I would argue that is ignorance Aada - not the point Throd was taking to drive home

 

[throdgrain]

My point is I suppose, I'm always complaining about foreign cultures and such like trying to tell me what to do in my own country. What I wouldnt want to do is then try to impose my own style of values on others, like some kind of missionary position for the new millenia

 

[ECA]

Iran is a democracy - they can sort their shit out, or throw their leaders out.
Same as Iraq - if they wanted democracy they could have had it under Saddam.

Afghanistan - not really the same as it's never been a united country except on maps.

 

[ford prefect]

I think this goes higher than a nations law. What we think is or isn't a just punishment is irrelevent. We are talking about a potential abuse of human rights here.

 

[throdgrain]

Human rights are just a figment of someone somewhere's over-active politically-correct imagination mate.

 

[ford prefect]

Human rights are just a figment of someone somewhere's over-active politically-correct imagination mate.

When you don't live in a country were your human rights are likely to be threatened, that is a very "easy" stand point to take.

 

[ECA]

I think this goes higher than a nations law. What we think is or isn't a just punishment is irrelevent. We are talking about a potential abuse of human rights here.

Get back to me about the 100k+ civilians we've killed in iraq and afghanistan then talk to us about human rights, we're responsible for far more death and injustice than Iran.

 

[ford prefect]

Get back to me about the 100k+ civilians we've killed in iraq and afghanistan then talk to us about human rights, we're responsible for far more death and injustice than Iran.

I agree 100%. I'm not entirely sure how that is relevant though.

 

[Mabs]

Get back to me about the 100k+ civilians we've killed in iraq and afghanistan then talk to us about human rights, we're responsible for far more death and injustice than Iran.

whoops 100k+ then its all ok (in theory)
vs
10-15k / year, for last 20-30 years, and on into the forseable future

?

<dont know the actual numbers, just illustrating the point>

 

[ECA]

whoops 100k+ then its all ok (in theory)
vs
10-15k / year, for last 20-30 years, and on into the forseable future

?

<dont know the actual numbers, just illustrating the point>

Iraq Body Count

the number isn't pulled out of my ass there are several respected sources.

The lancet puts it at 600k as of 2006, the AP puts it at 110k, the iraq family health survay puts it at 150k.

Take your pick, 100k is about the lowest figure.

Whereas your figures on Iran come from... your anus.






Oh and if you really want to talk about Iran, let's talk about the British and American governments which tried to carve the region up, and install a puppet dictator so we could rape their oil. I wonder why they don't like us.

 

[Mabs]

whoooosh, as the point goes past you

i dont give a shit about numbers

the point is:

our was a one off

and the "previous owners" were going at a steady rate, so the longer you leave it, the more hte body count

if you want numbers, go total up all the people who have died in suspicious ways in Iran since the Shah was deposed in 1979, work out the yearly average, and then allow for the next 10, 20, 30 years

then see which is higher ?

 

[ford prefect]

Iraq Body Count

the number isn't pulled out of my ass there are several respected sources.

The lancet puts it at 600k as of 2006, the AP puts it at 110k, the iraq family health survay puts it at 150k.

Take your pick, 100k is about the lowest figure.

Whereas your figures on Iran come from... your anus.






Oh and if you really want to talk about Iran, let's talk about the British and American governments which tried to carve the region up, and install a puppet dictator so we could rape their oil. I wonder why they don't like us.

All very good points I'm sure, but I don't reallyu see how any of that is relevant to a man being surgically paralised in Suadi. What the UK has or hasn't done has nothing to do with it really. I have re-read the thread, still not getting your point tbh.

 

[ECA]

My point is - what do we have to do with it?

Why is it our concern? Why should it be?
How can we criticise Iran yet fail to account for our own actions.

 

[Mabs]

Human rights are just a figment of someone somewhere's over-active politically-correct imagination mate.

YouTube - YOU HAVE NO RIGHTS - George Carlin

 

[ford prefect]

My point is - what do we have to do with it?

Why is it our concern? Why should it be?
How can we criticise Iran yet fail to account for our own actions.

Again, the story is about a man in Saudi, not Iran and it is Amnesty International getting involved, not the UK. It is a moral question of whether one man who paralised another man should be surgically paralised himself and whether that is morally right or wrong. Personally I do feel it is an abuse of his human rights as he may be forced to undergo a life threattening operation.

You will have to explain what Iran has to do with it, because I honestly don't see it. Obviously I am missing something.

 

[ECA]

Should have read Saudi in my last post.

 

[Embattle]

Iraq Body Count

the number isn't pulled out of my ass there are several respected sources.

The lancet puts it at 600k as of 2006, the AP puts it at 110k, the iraq family health survay puts it at 150k.

Take your pick, 100k is about the lowest figure.

Whereas your figures on Iran come from... your anus.






Oh and if you really want to talk about Iran, let's talk about the British and American governments which tried to carve the region up, and install a puppet dictator so we could rape their oil. I wonder why they don't like us.

Yawn.

 

[DaGaffer]

Should have read Saudi in my last post.

Answering a question about Saudi with a defence of Iran. They're all the same to you aren't they? Racist.

Back on topic, what they're doing makes sense from their (extreme interpretation of Sharia) perspective, so not surprising, but still extremely creepy and barbaric, but you could apply that statement to the entire country.

 

[ford prefect]

It's a difficult one really. From one perspective we are talking about 1200 years of Islamic Law, making it probably the oldest set of laws civilization has ever known. So obviously to some degree it works, and works pretty well. But then as Marting Luther King once paraphrased a carpenter: "The old law of an eye for an eye leaves everyone blind".

The safest form of paralysis would be a complete sever of the spinal chord at around T3/T4, which would leave this man with double incontenance (an obvious and particular insult for a muslim man) and a severe risk of Autonomic Dysreflexia, which in mild cases simply means mild sweating below the level of the break and in severe cases can lead to the heart simply stopping. Then there is the risk of kidney failure/ severe infection and potentially fatal blood clots and DVT. And then there is also the potential of chronic neuropathic pain too. So this isn't simply a case of not being able to walk anymore.

Now granted, he paralised another man, but I can't help but feel that this isn't justice, it is simply torture.

 

[Lazarus]

regardless how "we" all think - its not as if its a new law that was imposed AFTER the initial fight. the law was there, the man should have realised it and so he now pays the penalty.

 

[MYstIC G]

When you don't live in a country were your human rights are likely to be threatened, that is a very "easy" stand point to take.

Go stand in front of a pack of starving wolves and tell them they can't rip you to shreds because you have rights and see what fucking happens.

Rights are a concept. You don't have any "rights". Just because someone says you do, doesn't make it so. Paper doesn't refuse ink.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Paper doesn't refuse ink.

Also paper doesn't beat rock, scissors vs rock in a fight is pretty even(rock being more of a long range one shot advantage), but scissors vs paper is quite apt, unless the paper has a massive weight advantage(f.e. industrial paper-roll).

...

....don't ask me, i'm just rambling