Alliances in our realm.

[old.Spug]

No, Dozi's just standing up for the New Era Alliance...
AS in new era works as intended... every guild within NE is there because it wants to be there. if a guild is unhappy with the alliance chat rules, then there are bi-weekly meetings in which this can be discussed. but to be honest with you, we like things the way they are.

We do things our way, and let others do things theirs.

 

[Roo Stercogburn]

Rough guide to our alliance AC rules:

No swearing or internet shorthand for swearing at any time for any reason. No personal abuse or slagging off.

RvR: Post as short as possible with maximum info. 2FG Albs AMGO. We all get it wrong at times and fluff our messages. Nobody gets overly excited about it.

Hunts: You can advertise a hunt 1 or 2 times, any queries and replies to be by PM.

LFG. Yes, we allow this but, its not really needed since the improvements to the LFG window itself. You're allowed to post once then off you go.

At off-peak hours we allow light spam and jokes. And tbh pretty much at any time the odd comment here and there doesn't really bother anyone. If a discussion becomes extended someone will try and gently calm it down and if it goes too far there's always Dark Roo as a last resort.

During large raids AC is locked down for official alliance usage for the purpose of that raid, nothing else allowed on there except RvR info.

The alliance chat has always been hard to police because as you can see above there are a lot of grey areas and can easily be abused but it pays off. We had problems with some notorious 'MT' spammers in the past abusing other players. I think I was probably too gentle and would simply now boot the guild from the alliance if they didn't remove the person from AC access as I just don't have the time for nasty players and we really don't need them. However, its not a problem anymore for us.

One of the problems all alliances face with AC is that the larger the alliance, the tighter the control of AC generally has to be. The only real solution is for Mythic to implement multi-channel AC. So you have an RvR AC channel, a grouping AC channel and a spam channel, each of which can be turned on or off as suits the player's preference.

Most importantly, when you join an alliance you have agreed to play by their standards of behaviour and their rules of conduct for things like ac usage. If that means zero chat on AC except for RvR, then all must abide by it and if you don't like it vote with your feet. Its important that those that lead also abide by their own rules though and you have to treat everyone with respect, even when you want to punch their lights out.

An alliance will never suit an individual person completely, but its about getting a large number of people functioning as a large team rather than getting it 100% tailored to every single member of that alliance and so long as people play in the spirit of that large team, most problems can be worked out.

 

[Kerram Darktyde]

Been in a few alliances
imho /as should be for RvR and important alliance wide messages
you have group/guild and chatgroups for a joke and a natter

why the hell clutter up /as too unless you feel the need to have a bigger audience so you can feel more leet and want to seek more attention......

Problem with loose rules on /as is give an idiot and inch and he will take a mile as proven by people in all the alliances I have been in before NE.

 

[snoz]

Originally posted by pudzy
Kinda kept this bottled up for ages now, knowing that noone would give a shit what I thought, but I've decided to speak my mind about it.

Every alliance I've been is has had pathetic gay stupid non-spammy rules and turns out alliance chat is never used. I'm at BO not even sure what alliance but I dont even have /as, so fucknows what our's is like. People whining on /as is annoying, people chatting isn't imo. I've been on Alb/Exc I'm not certain but I think the alliance is called Perfectus Amicita Alliance - they use /as all the time even just to say Hi. Their all happy chatting, asking for groups and advertising crafters etc - they even help eachother out with probs and advice over /as - in mid I wouldn't dream of using /as to ask a question non-game related, or non-important.

The thing that triggered me being so pissed at Mid alliances in general was when I was in HH and we joined the New Era alliance. Louise had been threatend, bought to meetings and abused because she did /as /kiss when she logged on in the evenings - I mean wtf? Why hold meetings and have a go at someone who does something like that? She's a sweet person ANYONE who knows her will agree I bet my Savage's balls on it - the reason i was given is just a joke - "If she does it everyone else will" - YES MATE! I'll log in everyday and kiss you all, fear.

Dunno how many alliances are in mid now, and tbh I couldn't care less everytime theres a crisis the word spreads very fast and we are by far IMO the most defensive realm on Prydwen, so to all those who moan because new alliances are created, think about why - USE /as for more than just alerts - if you think its spammy turn it off, I'm sure you'll know if anything spectaculer happens. The alliance in my new Alb guild is like IRC without the whine and with nice peeps, so I rarely duckout of game to IRC for a chat, and I know that when I need a Wc'er, Ac'er, Sc'er Alch etc etc I can ask on there without having a GM kick my ass about it.

I'm not sure who the general poof's in Midgard are who complained about spam - I was told Nemesis alliance got too spammy with people moaning - if they are moaning 24/7 remove their as privilages, but instead everyones suffering with alliances enforcing strict rules on /as rights, the game with this facility is being run more like a power tool - you have to be important to have it or have something important to say.

My overall message and point to the thread would be to everyone, relax and remember its a game, stop whining about spam and think more about how underpowered our realm is :x. Before I quit daoc I plan to have my own guild and alliance, I'll prolly be only one in it but atleast I'll not be bossed around, moaned and complained at.

Fully agree ... thats why maelstrom left BO alliance as no one was ever aloud to speak on it :/ So we made our own little alliance with valour where we canjust chat between the two guilds.

 

[pudzy]

Re: Re: Alliances in our realm.

Originally posted by dozigden
Really you have no idea what was said do you? There was never any threatening. Louise was there as a representative of her guild, BoD at the time actually not HH i believe, so she wasnt "brought" to the meeting. If there are rules dont you think its a good idea that the people who made and agreed to them, follow them? Chances are in fact it was me ASKING that she not do it. There was certainly no "abusing", in fact your post here is far more abusive than anything ever said to Louise at any meeting, ever.



Likewise you really dont know what was going on - yes we tried that. However only the guilds themselves can stop their members posting on as, and those guilds with, imo, the worst spammers, refused to admit there was a problem, get it?



I think you need to take your own advice. Relax. Who are you to tell us that we should have THIS and THAT on our /as when we dont want to hear it? Thats no different to us saying that you cant spam /as - but you know where there difference is? We dont say "no alliance should have spam on their /as" where as youre saying "all alliances should have whatever they like on their /as cos I say so".

You didnt like our /as, you have 2 options. 1. present a reasoned case whats wrong and howto fix it, at the same time acknowledging other peoples concerns and not just dismissing them as "whiners". Or 2, leave. Im relieved to see youve taken the second option as youre post above doesnt show much hope youre willing to even attempt to see the situation from someone elses point of view.

Just gave my opinion, a meeting called cos someone did /kiss on as IS rediculus IMO.

You to think you know alot tbh you wasnt the only one who gave her stick about it.

I mentioned no names so dont give me that crap tbh.

I did leave.

I am willing to see someone elses point of view, the fact remains that the way alliances in mid stand is with people like you running them therfore **theres no sense of community**.

Bending my words to make ME sound bad for expressing my own opinion publically is just pathetic.

Quote:
"no alliance should have spam on their /as" where as youre saying "all alliances should have whatever they like on their /as cos I say so".

where did i say that?

Quote:
Likewise you really dont know what was going on - yes we tried that. However only the guilds themselves can stop their members posting on as, and those guilds with, imo, the worst spammers, refused to admit there was a problem, get it?

Ask them to leave the alliance, get it?

Quote:
in fact your post here is far more abusive than anything ever said to Louise at any meeting, ever.

Where's my abuse?

Fact is 'ASKING' occured several times, and she was asked to leave if she didnt stop saying /kiss on as once every evening.

Maybe its you who is too scared to see something from someone elses point of view, with your text book running of an alliance and the commercialized rules they are being built with. You've not made an atempt to understand my way of thinking.

----------------------------
Quote:
Likewise you really dont know what was going on.

If you want to know why I got so assy about the Louise thing, message me ingame I'll be more than happy to have a chat with you about it, I'm sure you'll see my view m8.
----------------------------

This post wasn't intended to flame thread (for a change), obviousely Dozi I do see your point, it's the same point I've shared for a long time, but seeing other alliances and how well they can work when they are a settled community made me want that more, if you saw it I'm sure you'd agree tbh.

Quote:
1. present a reasoned case whats wrong and howto fix it.

I tried at the time, noone listend to me because I wasn't an officer/gm I had no say in it, but if it helps at all, I thought at the time the alliance was very well run, only now I see what I didnt like.

 

[dozigden]

LOL

Rough guide to NE /as chat:-

Allowed things:
RvR reporting
CG advertising
Asking for CG (encouraged to only ask on /as as last resort though)
XP/item Hunt advertising (2 posts max)
Welcome Spam (for when a guild joins)

Whats not allowed:
Any abuse or flaming.
Reporting individual movements, people do not need to report their own individual responses. "im otw"
Taking up non-immediate conversations. Any discussion that results from AS should immediately be taken to a cg. Such a cg can be advertised on the alliance line.
Reporting dings or levels or any other game-mechanics information requests (such as quest information)
Needless responses (such as "lol" or "w00t") and responses to individuals (these can be made direct to the individual).

--------------------------

Personally Im perfectly happy with it. From my own point of view the less "grey areas" there are then the less chance there is that I have to tell someone off for straying past them. I really dont like telling people off, contrary to the opinion of a lot of people on here I'd like a nice easy quiet life.

I can perfectly understand why some people want a "spammy" /as, good luck to them - if it works for you go for it. But what I cant understand is people who think everyone else is/should be exactly the same as them.

 

[old.Spug]

And rather than stand behind Dozi, I'm gonna stand beside him, and say this is what our guild (TR) want. we're happy with it, and I'm sure the other guilds are too. the alliance isnt run by one person, its run by one guild, New Era, and New Era contains a rep from every guild in the alliance. democracy at its finest

 

[dozigden]

Re: Re: Re: Alliances in our realm.

Originally posted by pudzy
Just gave my opinion, a meeting called cos someone did /kiss on as IS rediculus IMO.

Fully agree it would be completely ridiculous - thats why it only came up as "any other buisness" at the end of the normal fortnightly alliance meetings. I'm sorry but youve really got the wrong picture of what actually happened, maybe you should find some facts before posting wild accusations in public?

Originally posted by pudzy
You to think you know alot tbh you wasnt the only one who gave her stick about it.

No, I might not have been, but I was present at every meeting where the subject was bought up, which give me a far better idea of what was going on than you. I really didnt like having to bring the subject up repeatedly, but sometimes you have to do things you dont like.

Originally posted by pudzy
I mentioned no names so dont give me that crap tbh.

No - you dont mention names - but you are basically aiming this at the entire NE council - that includes myself and several other people here. Solid got told off for the jokes on /as too - after a reasonable discussion about it he understood our point and stopped doing it, he doesnt seem to be holding grudges, hell he joined SC.

Originally posted by pudzy
Bending my words to make ME sound bad for expressing my own opinion publically is just pathetic.

As opposed to the completely ficticious things youre saying about what the alliance council did/said?

Originally posted by pudzy
Ask them to leave the alliance, get it?[/B]

Riiiiight - cant really ask the guild running the alliance to leave - get it???

What happened to the old alliance wasnt some random event, I didnt decided one evening to remove SC, then the next day another guild decided to - we'd all been talking and planning for weeks - leaving the guilds we didnt want due to spam and other issues out of it. It was a unified descision not some knee-jerk reaction.

Originally posted by pudzy
Fact is 'ASKING' occured several times, and she was asked to leave if she didnt stop saying /kiss on as once every evening.

Actually I can remember counting one evening and it went over a dozen /kisses. Yes asking occured several times - cos it didnt stop after the first time she was asked.

Originally posted by pudzy
Maybe its you who is too scared to see something from someone elses point of view, with your text book running of an alliance and the commercialized rules they are being built with. You've not made an atempt to understand my way of thinking.

Theres a text book? damn all those hours the councils spent trying to come up with fairest way to do things and we could have just got it from a text book?

Originally posted by pudzy
If you want to know why I got so assy about the Louise thing, message me ingame I'll be more than happy to have a chat with you about it, I'm sure you'll see my view m8.

Maybe if youre going to make a song and dance out of something that happened over 6 months ago on a public forum you should be prepaired to post your reasons on that forum?

Originally posted by pudzy
This post wasn't intended to flame thread (for a change),

You started a thread with "Every alliance I've been is has had pathetic gay stupid non-spammy rules..." and you didnt intend it to be a flame? How did you thing the people who put a lot of work into coming up with those "gay" rules would respond?

 

[pudzy]

I didnt say everyone should be the same, but you could give it a go, tbh if your happy with it as it is keep it that way, I should have said that in the first post, was my fault for phrasing it all wrong.

 

[gladvoffs]

And I'm satisfied with the way things are in NE...
If you wanna chat, chat with your guild, in tells, or make a cg...
You don't create an alliance to "chat"?

 

[Thorgald]

i dunno about that NE alliance is to strict about /as. yesterday we had a dude screaming for a PBae group in /as for like 4 hours.. and as far as i know noone said anything that even resembled "stop spam" or stufu noob or whatever.

sure.. NE /as isnt used very much. but in no way have i noticed any complaining when someone have asked for a crafter or a exp group in /as.. but im also one of the persons that think "get a CG ffs" if all u wanna do is tell jokes, i hear enuff jokes on /gu to wanna hear even more on /as

call me whatever u want but thats the way i like it

 

[Mid_Blejsarus]

snoz is not BO alliance... its Havoc
and tbh its messed up atm abit imho

 

[rynnor]

Originally posted by Kerram Darktyde
Been in a few alliances
imho /as should be for RvR and important alliance wide messages
you have group/guild and chatgroups for a joke and a natter

why the hell clutter up /as too unless you feel the need to have a bigger audience so you can feel more leet and want to seek more attention......

Problem with loose rules on /as is give an idiot and inch and he will take a mile as proven by people in all the alliances I have been in before NE.

Agree completely - unless your chat window takes up 90% of your screen how can you keep up with lively guild chatter + pms as well as an alliance chat full of spam?

 

[Melachi-]

Re: Re: Alliances in our realm.

Originally posted by snoz
Fully agree ... thats why maelstrom left BO alliance as no one was ever aloud to speak on it :/ So we made our own little alliance with valour where we canjust chat between the two guilds.

And chat we do! err did, on the first day everyone said welcome now its completely dead :/

Weve gone from only RvR messages to nothing m8

anytime a keep changes hands or is being attacked i end up pming half the realm just to tell em whats up incase they dont know allready

 

[SilverHood]

heh, back when the Fedaykin alliance was still building up, pretty much anything went for /as

had tone it down, eventually, because people were being morons on /as

trick is getting a guild and alliance that have the same view, and members with some form of self moderation

*misses being able to be so incredibly rude and sexist on AC*

 

[pudzy]

Got bored of argueing Dozi takes too much effort cutting and pasting .

but 1 thing

Originally posted by pudzy
Ask them to leave the alliance, get it?[/B]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Riiiiight - cant really ask the guild running the alliance to leave - get it???


Then why didnt you leave?.

 

[old.Elrond]

now now, simmer down...I don't play any longer but when I did I was of the view that an alliance was meant to build friendships and unite different guilds in the spirit of cooperation. I don't see how this can be achieved when someone speaking about something even slightly non-rvr related gets snapped at and told to stop spamming - that's no way to encourage people to work together yet it seemed to be the norm as opposed to the exception in most alliances I've been in. It really used to annoy me when a nice person would ask a simple, innocent question and be told to stfu on alliance chat by some jumped up guild leader who's too full of their own self-importance.

How do you ever expect to have a strong cooperative alliance that works smoothly when you have constant sniping at alliance members from certain egotistic people and stupid bureaucratic rules that forbid any kind of communication that will build up a sense of comradery. Such strict rules are not necessary so long as you can count upon the people in your alliance to behave in a responsible manner when the situation warrants it...and if they can't...why the hell do you want them in your alliance? Problems of this nature do not in my opinion result from the members..but from weak alliance leadership.

ps. no offence to anyone =)

 

[old.Spug]

its repeating myself I know, but theres no point in telling others how to run their alliance.

stick with what makes you happy, and be happy.

 

[pudzy]

Originally posted by old.Elrond
now now, simmer down...I don't play any longer but when I did I was of the view that an alliance was meant to build friendships and unite different guilds in the spirit of cooperation. I don't see how this can be achieved when someone speaking about something even slightly non-rvr related gets snapped at and told to stop spamming - that's no way to encourage people to work together yet it seemed to be the norm as opposed to the exception in most alliances I've been in. It really used to annoy me when a nice person would ask a simple, innocent question and be told to stfu on alliance chat by some jumped up guild leader who's too full of their own self-importance.

How do you ever expect to have a strong cooperative alliance that works smoothly when you have constant sniping at alliance members from certain egotistic people and stupid bureaucratic rules that forbid any kind of communication that will build up a sense of comradery. Such strict rules are not necessary so long as you can count upon the people in your alliance to behave in a responsible manner when the situation warrants it...and if they can't...why the hell do you want them in your alliance? Problems of this nature do not in my opinion result from the members..but from weak alliance leadership.

ps. no offence to anyone =)

Thats what I've been trying to say I just couldnt spell it or get the sentances right .

 

[oldtimer]

This thread is quite revealing for those that shop around for an alliance. Very good consumer info.

 

[shanks]

Basically you all suck.

 

[old.Spug]

and we have reasonable rates too

 

[hrorvaig]

Originally posted by pudzy
Got bored of argueing Dozi takes too much effort cutting and pasting .

but 1 thing

Originally posted by pudzy
Ask them to leave the alliance, get it?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Riiiiight - cant really ask the guild running the alliance to leave - get it???


Then why didnt you leave?. [/B]

Ehhh... I thought that was just what we did..

 

[Mikal]

I like the New Era alliance, much better than the OBA alliance. But as had been said many times before in this thread, it's a matter of taste. Some like to chat on /as, I want it for alliance matters, RvR reports, hunt announcements and cg advertising.

Originally posted by old.Elrond
How do you ever expect to have a strong cooperative alliance that works smoothly when you have constant sniping at alliance members from certain egotistic people and stupid bureaucratic rules that forbid any kind of communication that will build up a sense of comradery. Such strict rules are not necessary so long as you can count upon the people in your alliance to behave in a responsible manner when the situation warrants it...and if they can't...why the hell do you want them in your alliance? Problems of this nature do not in my opinion result from the members..but from weak alliance leadership.

I'll admit, I'm one of the first to make sure people have read the alliance charter and /as rules when I see something inappropiate on /as. But as for "sniping at alliance members from certain egotistic people", I wouldn't hope this to be the case in any alliance, and it's certainly not in NE (as I'm actually in the NE alliance, I can make such a claim), It's not like we just all go "/send xxx shut the fuck up n00b" I always ask in officer chat if someone is talking to the guy, or if I should, so that he doesn't recieve a 100 /send telling him off. It's in no way our wish to abuse people till they stop.

And being unable to build up a sense of community, again when talking about New Era as an example, I fail to see how you can comment on that. We have weekly alliance hunts, and we can announce any hunt on /as if we like, some of the guilds' crafters give discounts to alliance members. To me that doesn't seem like we lack any sense of community.

As an alliance you can invite the guilds you like, but there a always some morons out there that you'll hate, and most likely there's even some in the guilds that you otherwise like. But the alliance has no say in which people the guilds should invite/kick, or even which rank they should hold in the guilds (and thinking so would be foolish). And why should an alliance kick a perfectly good guild, just because they got maybe one or two stupid people abusing /as, when it's so much more reasonble to talk to them instead and have them stop those people.

Now I have only been in two alliances NE and OBA (I don't really play on excal) so I can only comment on my experience from those two. But I view /as like an announcement channel, somewhere to put messages concercing the realm, like rvr, cg's, hunts and the like, but not the individual.
Personally I see no reason to have random chat on /as. I use guildchat, cg's, groupchat, send's, even /say for that, of all the methods you can communicate in the game, is it really that bad you can't do it on /as ?
Besides, the rest of the alliance do not need to hear you chat with your friends, if you want alot of people to be able to comment on what you are saying, use forums and irc (or join an alliance where using /as for chat is allowed) but don't go tell everyone else, how to run their alliances and that by not doing it your way it's ruining the sense of community when it's obviously not.

when you walk down the street with your friends you don't use a megaphone to chat with them either, do you ?

oh and for the Louise /kissing thing, there was no meeting called because of this, as the GM of brotherhood of dawn louise was invited to all the alliance meetings, and as far as I understand it was brought up like any other normal point on their agenda, contrary to some beliefs there was no angry mob with torches and pitchforks lynching people.
Telling people to stop doing something that's clearly against the rules does not mean in any way you don't like them. (who would want to ever be a parent then)

 

[old.Elrond]

My comments weren't aimed at NE or any other specific alliance, but were merely indicative of how I think alliances should be run and how I would run one if I was in that position...it wasn't meant to be the definitive template for every alliance...each to their own of course.