All of HIbernias problems in one

[karlophin]

Ok, Ive had a little think and It seems like there is one main problem within hibernia at the moment which didn't exist when this game was first released.

It seems like all the new players have some kind of problem with the older players. It seems to be that a lot of these 'older players' are in guilds such as Llaw, Black Dragon, Vengence, some in Terra Dominus and a few in Celtic Fist etc. Now im not putting all of these into your so called L337 guilds which in my opiniion just dont exist. Any of these guilds, possibly with the exception of llaw who want to keep there groups balance, which is a very fair argument, will take most players with a wish to join.

TD and CF will take an level, and thats fine, I was in TD for many many a month and in my opinion put one hell of a lot into that guild. And i know for a fact anyone that was in it will back me up. The other 3 will only take 50's. The reason behind this is because we only want to RvR, we are a group of like minded people who have, at this time, had enough of xp'ing etc. Any thing RvR minded, keep taking etc, we are more then happy to do.

Now the problem is in the apparent stealing of new LvL 50's. There is no way on earth any of us go up to a guilded player and try to poach them from there guild. If they ask then were more then likely to take them. What most people dont like is the fact that some people get to 50 in the guild they are in then move. But why do they move? Perhaps your guild doesn't offer the RvR that they want? Perhaps there not happy there anymore? We dont force them to come. We cant log on to there accounts and get them to accept to join the guild. Its of there own free will. Why keep someone in another guild if there not happy there? After all this is a game, if somebody wants to move, then wish them well and so be it.

Hibernia was once a really nice realm to play in. Everyone was friendly, things got done, there was no arguments etc etc. How come all of a sudden people have decided to pull arguments out of the hat for the sake of it? Please lets end this bickering now and go back to the united realm we once were. Enough of this petty queraling.

It started somewhere, and now its time to stop it.

 

[StormriderX]

There is no logic to the argument of players being 'stolen' as that would assume that the said players are vegetables incapable of making their own desicions. People choose to leave if they believe that another guild is more suited to their needs and at the end of the day it is just a game. Everyone pays their monthly subs and deserve to play it in the way that means they maximise their enjoyment, and if that means full time rvr I don't see whats wrong with that. Like karlo said no one forces anyone to leave their guild, they leave on their own accord. Don't blame other guilds for them leaving, whining won't change things, just deal with it and move on.

 

[angara-ffs]

Good post Karl!
But will it help...?

 

[Erekrose]

Why dont we just let those people who want to do pure RVR in their pure RVR guilds with there pure RVR friends get on with it.

How many players are actually in those guilds?

How many players are in the whole realm?

Everyone pays there money to play the way they want to.

 

[old.Tzeentch]

Erekrose you seem very bitter.

 

[Erekrose]

Originally posted by old.Tzeentch
Erekrose you seem very bitter.

EH?

Im like the Murphy's mate.

I just think that it really doesnt matter. Say theres a hundred people who play in pure RVR guilds. So what. Does it matter? There must be another couple of hundred on Hibernia Excal who can organise there own raids, kill there own albs & mids & genererally just do what they want to do.

I just think let everyone play the way they want to.

 

[old.Tzeentch]

Came across as if you wished a total seperation from the realm, rvr guilds on one side, the rest on another.

The 'rvrguilds' dont only just rvr..
And no, I don't mean we roleplay or whatever.. the most important thing people dont pick up on.. is we have fun.

I have fun going to kill a prince with my guild, or to get someones epic done... to take a keep as a guild.

I mean, what is the problem there? Is it simply rooted in jealousy? That some guilds can do this, and others cannot..

(btw this is not all adressed to you Erek, just started rambling a bit ;p )

 

[Erekrose]

I agree. Ive said in another post somewhere that the people who farm in their exclusive guilds are having fun their way. So let them get on with it & have fun your way.

Addressed at everyone.

 

[karlophin]

Some good posts here guys with some nice points, lets hope we see some more opinions from people.

 

[inuyasha]

Yeah =)

I dont mind if the whole realm is elitist as long as they still take the time to show general respect for the rest of the realm =)

And personally i have never been run by to when dead and not been ressed or anything, and "most" people even answer to tells =)

And black dragon rewlz =) Any and everyone i have spoken to in BD is nice guys! You are not what the realm describes as "elitists" =)

I know very few of LA as well as i should like, and i like less then half... you know =) But i do NOT know many in LA, so its majority might rock, and of the guilds, LA is the only one i have seen powerleveling at water beetles =)

I simply know nothing about vengance ;(

Speaking of problems in hib, dont really know why so many complain about raid formats and such =) This was censi raids only, and there are many many others who can arrange raids =) That censi want effective raids is just fair imoh =)

 

[Moody]

Sorry to be crashing in on the Hib forum. Hope you forgive me.

What you will also experience i think or already are is the influx of people who play Hibernia because it is the strongest realm now. Some just want to be winners and will leave the other realms to become 1337 again.

A strong realm also means people tend to get cocky and ego's start writing cheques the body cant cash.

I hope its not the case, because it ruined Midgard and it ruined Albion.

Good luck and don't kill me too much. please

 

[Tank Init]

the problem is not the guilds but the people of this realm

they want to level and the easiest way to do this is join a guild, so basicaly they use the guild to get to 50.
now these same people want to get rp's and they see these so called rvr guilds, so what they do is leave there guild, they never cared about it anyway and join a rvr guild so they can start to use these guilds to get them their rp's (again they dont really care about the guild their init for thier own benefit)

there is no real guild structure anymore in hib because of this, people cant get alone with others even from their own guilds, mainly because of people's greed

and because of this our realm is weak, divided etc just look at all the posts of late its plain to see

this is what i think anyways

 

[censi]

LLaw gr8 guild strong players... Very well organised and highly united goals...
Always there to help you in an instant if you are in trouble or dying, some old scholl players with lots of experience and wisdom... I do look in amazement as I see these guys charge into battle sometimes, I have seen them wipe the floor with albion forces that double or even treble their numbers... it even scares me sometimes, and I find myself yelling "RUN" to the albs in a vain effort to save them from the slaughter

VGN also gr8 guild strong players.... Very well organised and highly united with the same goals....
Always there to help you in an instant if you are in trouble or dying, some old scholl players with lots of experience and wisdom... Tyka in full nuke banzai mode = death spam

BD gr8 guild with some gr8 players... Not as well known as the above but still nice and friendly and becoming ever more established as a top guild....

I like all 3 of the above guilds.... and would have tried to join one long ago but for the fact I am the worlds worst RVR'er and would soon change their elite tag to one of incompetance.... Besides that Terra Dominus is my sanctuary and we all seem to get on in near perfect harmony...

I also like Ihtil Galad, they are gr8 bunch of peeps that seem to have fun and play well togther

Celtic Fist, seemed to have shrunk a tad lately but they have a collection of fine players with massive experience, and are still a huge guild (Gray is also perhaps the kindest player on Hibernia)

Bearhawk again, shrunk a bit but still massivly influencial in the ebb and flow of hibernia, and a force to be reckoned with in RVR (grizzly gr8 leader to)

The point I am trying to make is I dont think we have any real problems in hibernia.... We have many awsome guilds and many awsome players.... and perhaps a bit of friendly rivalry.....

We do loose focus from time to time, but on the whole things are going well.....

(could do with a few more bards though )

 

[old.Tzeentch]

But of course.. times change, guilds change.. people lose perspective, and for me, personally, I've lost friendships with people in game because of leaving a guild, or joining one.

Lots of the 'old timers' around have invested a lot of time into the game, and I guess they are a bit hurt when new ideas and change comes around, sure, I'd put myself in there, as one time Hib would never, ever, even imagine doing a relic raid after midnight... and now, familiar faces appear to have given up and welcome a raid at these times.

<ramble>
Whatever you may say on that, there is still a perception by virtually all folk that a prime time raid commands respect if successful, and night time raids do the opposite.. the relics are not important in themselves, how they are gained is, however, important.

I could bring up stories of how a week or so before Nova did his raids on midgard power, Iziz did a raid, and how close we were.. or how one time Nova ported over and the relic somehow 'dropped' on the pad.. Gargo picked it up.. went linkdead.. then Falconee lifted it up not knowing what it was.

These things bring us together.
</ramble>

Petty.. squabbles, become deep rooted.
Over time they get worse.

Not much can be done, but to wait and see I guess.

 

[Qte Eth]

Hibernia because it is the strongest realm now
midgard is better by all means

 

[karlophin]

Originally posted by old.Tzeentch
But of course.. times change, guilds change.. people lose perspective, and for me, personally, I've lost friendships with people in game because of leaving a guild, or joining one.

Lots of the 'old timers' around have invested a lot of time into the game, and I guess they are a bit hurt when new ideas and change comes around, sure, I'd put myself in there, as one time Hib would never, ever, even imagine doing a relic raid after midnight... and now, familiar faces appear to have given up and welcome a raid at these times.

<ramble>
Whatever you may say on that, there is still a perception by virtually all folk that a prime time raid commands respect if successful, and night time raids do the opposite.. the relics are not important in themselves, how they are gained is, however, important.

I could bring up stories of how a week or so before Nova did his raids on midgard power, Iziz did a raid, and how close we were.. or how one time Nova ported over and the relic somehow 'dropped' on the pad.. Gargo picked it up.. went linkdead.. then Falconee lifted it up not knowing what it was.

These things bring us together.
</ramble>

Petty.. squabbles, become deep rooted.
Over time they get worse.

Not much can be done, but to wait and see I guess.

Yes I know mate. I remember the first ever relic raid I organized which gained me respect at lvl38 within both Terra Dominus and my guild. It was to midguard if you remember rightly, and we were going for there power relic. This was at 8 in the evening and was one huge zerge raid. We only got the first door down before we were zerged by mids but it was an amazing experiance and I had many congrats here on these forums from mids albs and hibs alike, just for the shear size of the forces and the organization that went into it. Its been a while since these sort of raids took place and Id love to see it hapen again. We truely were one great realm then.

Come back hibernia... plz.. come back.

 

[elerand]

Originally posted by karlophin


Now the problem is in the apparent stealing of new LvL 50's. There is no way on earth any of us go up to a guilded player and try to poach them from there guild. If they ask then were more then likely to take them. What most people dont like is the fact that some people get to 50 in the guild they are in then move. But why do they move? Perhaps your guild doesn't offer the RvR that they want? Perhaps there not happy there anymore? We dont force them to come. We cant log on to there accounts and get them to accept to join the guild. Its of there own free will. Why keep someone in another guild if there not happy there? After all this is a game, if somebody wants to move, then wish them well and so be it.

I agree Karl, you can't force people to leave but for my guild it's a recurring problem, just as we start to have enough people to start putting together regular rvr grps the same thing happens, it slows down a bit then people start thinking of looking elesewhere.
BD themselves had a FG and one or two of them had to join non guild grps for rvr!
All I'm saying is that there are too many people happy to get to 50 with a guild, then not stick around to put anything back into it.
We lack enough 50's since we lost so many to BD, nice for the rest of us, put up with the new RVR status quo or do pve 90% of the time!
BD puts themselves first before AOP and I've already told the guild if they wish to leave than so be it but we no longer have guild ties to them.

 

[karlophin]

Re: Re: All of HIbernias problems in one

Originally posted by elerand


I agree Karl, you can't force people to leave but for my guild it's a recurring problem, just as we start to have enough people to start putting together regular rvr grps the same thing happens, it slows down a bit then people start thinking of looking elesewhere.
BD themselves had a FG and one or two of them had to join non guild grps for rvr!
All I'm saying is that there are too many people happy to get to 50 with a guild, then not stick around to put anything back into it.
We lack enough 50's since we lost so many to BD, nice for the rest of us, put up with the new RVR status quo or do pve 90% of the time!
BD puts themselves first before AOP and I've already told the guild if they wish to leave than so be it but we no longer have guild ties to them.

Yep I understand where you are coming from mate. I think the problem lies in the fact I would imagine the guild does see itself as an entirly seperate entity I was totally unaware it had any connections with AoP until 2 days ago.

 

[old.Laryssa]

Originally posted by karlophin
Perhaps your guild doesn't offer the RvR that they want?

Because everyone and his dog leaves at lvl 50 and joins the rvr guilds. So it's really hard to get a RvR balanced group to run.

Actually we give up on real serious guild rvr and do it from time
to time and we enjoy it - even if we get owned.

But we run in 1st row

Originally posted by karlophin
We dont force them to come.

Oddly, I told Fearmast and Yadleen to stop your guild members
from bugging my guildies to join Black Dragon. They sometimes
msged them 6 (!!!) times a day to convince them to join.


---


Not the RvR Guilds are the problem - they do what they like to do.
Nothing wrong with it. I often run with VNG and what they do is great but I would never join them coz I like to take care of others
- see them raise and gain in lvl.

RvR Guilds dont have to bother with leveling peoples because they
receive finished characters from the xp guilds. Nothing wrong with it too.

It's the player who leaves - that is the problem. You feel just used
to helped him more or less to get to 50 (due guild groups, items,
epic, quest help, craft funding, providing armor/weapons).

Some play the game as it would consist of NPCs and it does not
matter what they do to them - and that hurts (at least me).

 

[elerand]

Re: Re: Re: All of HIbernias problems in one

Originally posted by karlophin


Yep I understand where you are coming from mate. I think the problem lies in the fact I would imagine the guild does see itself as an entirly seperate entity I was totally unaware it had any connections with AoP until 2 days ago.

Well I mentioned our problem to talivar, Miril and I'm sure I mentioned it to fear too, we don't want anyone in BD asking any of our members if they will join BD when they hit 50. We won't ask BD for help as a guild but based on individual friendships.
If people wish to leave to join an rvr guild at 50 that's their choice but I won't have any poaching going on and I know a few of our now ex members were asked if they would leave before they hit 50 although that was probably from friends so it's not really that important.
Did a /who on black dragon, almost no old AOP peeps I can see there about 10 mins ago so none of it really matters anymore

 

[Rhodo_Stoney]

Well, personally i respect the RvR guilds as much as any other.
The players who leave there guild to join a RvR guild prolly got there reasons to do so, not? They just want to RvR, or have trouble with some ppl in the guild... .

Personally, im in IPW for +8 months, and would never leave the guys i grew up with, and had the chance to get to know em better, (respect to y' all IPW's ), but malcontented ppl just move on to look for future fun... .

Maybe thats just the prob for some 'older peeps', that they played this game for so long, that they just need a change to keep staying enjoyed to play the game and change guild?

(don't flame the time of post pls, im the babysitter of servise for my sisters kids and im bored )

 

[inuyasha]

highjacking

All guilds will loose members this way...
It will always remain that way...

A guild should not really be based on all members at all, but on the core of the guild.

A core of a good guild dont leave at 50

Me and a few friends had a guild called eternal warriors, it had followed us through 4 games. We were ALL good friends there, and as far as i know off, most were just as happy as we was. Lots of people come, most of them left, and it was fine, the core stayed. In the long end the core started to loosen up, mostly quitting the game for good, so we simply dissolved the guild, not letting it be a shadow of itself.

All guilds i have been in have such a core, in some (the guilds i quite rapidly left) they was fighting, and the guild was not my kind at all. Finaly, after at least 9 different guilds, i have settled with Red Dragons of Wrath who have a really good core of players, all getting 50 in the long run, and as far as i know none have planned or none have (as long as i have been there) left the guild from the old core at all. As it is now, i will stay in this guild for as long as the core hold...may it last as long as hibernia! /salute

This "stealing of members" thingy is not really a matter how i see it. Members are either "really happy" and is a core member, or they are "happy" and will leave for better once later. No people should be forced to be in any guild, and although it takes time and maby money to help the members get too 50...why should it be lost? Why should you be used? It never hurted anyone, and you know for yourself you helped a friend get 50 faster and with more joy, is that not enough in itself? Are there a rule that whoever joins the guild will stay loyal no matter?

In a perfect world, all guilds would be good if their members stayed true and they got their level 50 rvr groups, but never mind, guilds HAVE different purposes. In all leveling guilds rvr will never be 100% effective since it includes unpraticed groups, people not level 50 joining and all. People who wants perfection, systems and fast rps will simply not stay in a system like this. They will head for the guilds like BD/LA/VNG. The tought had crossed my mind as well before i got into to RDoW to join this ones at 50. Guilds are "supposed" to be used like this in this game, it seems to be a fact. But someone who join at 23 and leave the second they get 50 is hardly a core, and is not that likely to ruin a guild.

Of course, it does in a major term affect all guilds that this things happen. What i hope for is that all guilds have a core that have enough with themself to be more then happy with the guild =)
Loosing core....loosing guild =)

 

[karlophin]

Re: Re: Re: Re: All of HIbernias problems in one

Originally posted by elerand


Well I mentioned our problem to talivar, Miril and I'm sure I mentioned it to fear too, we don't want anyone in BD asking any of our members if they will join BD when they hit 50. We won't ask BD for help as a guild but based on individual friendships.
If people wish to leave to join an rvr guild at 50 that's their choice but I won't have any poaching going on and I know a few of our now ex members were asked if they would leave before they hit 50 although that was probably from friends so it's not really that important.
Did a /who on black dragon, almost no old AOP peeps I can see there about 10 mins ago so none of it really matters anymore

Ah cul I can see your point now mate. I didn't realise that this was the problem with BD but I can see where some of you are coming from now. Sorry if any are offended by this sorta thing but there is little I can say about it mate. you know how much I respect you cul and dont do anything to any guild to poach members. My point is that I wish whole guilds would stop being looked as as being twats. Having new lvl50's calling me a wanker (as has happened) is insulting, and im sure any of you old guys, that I know and love, would never do such a thing. Does a guild title always bring that guild status?

 

[elerand]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: All of HIbernias problems in one

Originally posted by karlophin


Ah cul I can see your point now mate. I didn't realise that this was the problem with BD but I can see where some of you are coming from now. Sorry if any are offended by this sorta thing but there is little I can say about it mate. you know how much I respect you cul and dont do anything to any guild to poach members. My point is that I wish whole guilds would stop being looked as as being twats. Having new lvl50's calling me a wanker (as has happened) is insulting, and im sure any of you old guys, that I know and love, would never do such a thing. Does a guild title always bring that guild status?

Thanks for the support karl

I think the reason guilds get labled is because it is a label, I don't think all of one guild is that bad ever, just we tend to seize on the most readily available lable at hand.
There are great people all over hibernia and some of them are in these rvr guilds, maybe some are jealous, I for one am happy in a guild like AOP and if people leave then it's sad but that's the way it goes. Some people I'm sure think of guilds as CS clans, only singing when winning and I'm sure you know as many people like that as I do karl

 

[aruen]

Wasn't going to post about this like i haven't for all the other posts about this matter.
I joined BD when it was made since i was AOP and 50. After 2 days i rejoined AOP because it was home and i'm not sorry even for a bit.
I'm co-GM now and i'm giving all i got to keep this guild going because it's the guild that basically made me, and i got some good friends there.
In BD too. Friends that i still talk to sometimes althout it is diferent, but whenever i call for help i know i can still count on a few, not as many as i wished and expected because after all the 2 guilds were supose to stick together for everything.
I like RVR, not that much that would make me run 10 times to emain a night, no, but i understand who does.
People wanna leave, ok, good luck, it hurts i admit and ppl close to me know how i get to see them go saying "i want more rvr".
Thing is from about 5/6 hours i spend in game, 4 is helping guildies, xp, quests, whatever, even rvr. And it's hard when you care more about others then yourself and in the end you just get a goodbye.
RVR guilds elitists? Not the guilds, some people yes, but i don't judge all for a few.
About recruiting every 50 member your guild sees Karl, yes i must admit it's true. BD even tried to recruit me today.I think it's a bit lack of respect to recruit guilded people, especially when i'm AOP.
In the middle of all this you can kick butt with me in mid whenever you want Karl, everyone is welcome in my groups, diferent guild, low level, i'm a loving druid


Aruen 50 Druid Co-GM of <Alliance of Power>
Leaa 30 Bard <Alliance of Power>
Jule 28 BM Co-GM of <Portvcalis Raiders>

 

[karlophin]

Originally posted by aruen
Wasn't going to post about this like i haven't for all the other posts about this matter.
I joined BD when it was made since i was AOP and 50. After 2 days i rejoined AOP because it was home and i'm not sorry even for a bit.
I'm co-GM now and i'm giving all i got to keep this guild going because it's the guild that basically made me, and i got some good friends there.
In BD too. Friends that i still talk to sometimes althout it is diferent, but whenever i call for help i know i can still count on a few, not as many as i wished and expected because after all the 2 guilds were supose to stick together for everything.
I like RVR, not that much that would make me run 10 times to emain a night, no, but i understand who does.
People wanna leave, ok, good luck, it hurts i admit and ppl close to me know how i get to see them go saying "i want more rvr".
Thing is from about 5/6 hours i spend in game, 4 is helping guildies, xp, quests, whatever, even rvr. And it's hard when you care more about others then yourself and in the end you just get a goodbye.
RVR guilds elitists? Not the guilds, some people yes, but i don't judge all for a few.
About recruiting every 50 member your guild sees Karl, yes i must admit it's true. BD even tried to recruit me today.I think it's a bit lack of respect to recruit guilded people, especially when i'm AOP.
In the middle of all this you can kick butt with me in mid whenever you want Karl, everyone is welcome in my groups, diferent guild, low level, i'm a loving druid


Aruen 50 Druid Co-GM of <Alliance of Power>
Leaa 30 Bard <Alliance of Power>
Jule 28 BM Co-GM of <Portvcalis Raiders>

Ok matey, I can see why BD has got itself a bit of a name now. I totally disagree with the idea of poaching members form other guilds and I have, or never will play a part in such escapades. Perhaps it might be better for the 2 guilds to become seperate entitys with different ideals altogether. It might break this whole 'pulling members for AoP' thing and maybe resolve any differences between the 2 guilds. Just a thought mate.