All Crafters (lgm) Read This

[garnax]

I have seen the latest time that the crafting aint worth doing
becuse of the market.

For an example many times I get yelled at when I say my price
telling me I charge way way to much. The price I just told em was
550g (80g profit) and thay tell me normal price is 300g (170g loss)

90% of the time I hear this when anyone want a weapon.

Result is I dont take orders at all. I craft MP orders for myself
and m alts and sell the 99% I get left.

Now I want to change it and I hope you want it too.

I sugest a meeting with all LGM crafters to make a agreement
that could help the market so we no more need to hear we charge to mutch even when we sell for cost.

I am not after to make same price to all crafters but maybe a
minimum price.

We all know ppl farm money like never before in DF so ppl have money and thay will and have to pay for the items thay want.

So IF you agree with me on this point join the CG I will make
on friday at 21:00 CET I will alsow PM the crafters I can find
to advertise for this meeting ingame. So maybe we can make a change, not unresonable high prices just so we crafters can make
a living and not go back 200g on every item to make ppl happy.

If you want to join plz reply so I can see if there is any intrest in
this...

DONT WANT HIGH PRICES JUST NEVER UNDER COST+REBUILDS

(ORIGINAL IS ON MID TRADING FORUM SO PLZ REPLY THERE)

___________________________________
Garnax LVL 50 Berserker LGM WC (1075)

Thanks and have a good day!

 

[osy]

If you pull this off, my bet is we'll see more and more LGMers poping around... farming cash is quite easy, and macroing makes things a lot easier.

Good luck in turning Midgard's market into a shark pool.

 

[garnax]

yes I agree, would be dam sick if crafters had a minimum charge of cost and thats what I personaly would want so you dont have to hear "Your prices are sick man, that item normaly cost 200g lesser then you sell for" when you charge a small profit (80g in this example)

Man drives me mad when I think about it, no ppl can get items for way way under cost and no crafters get to get yelled at if you charge normal price (cost+5 rebuilds+ a profit)

I will stop playing the game if the over all prices move from
cost+1 rebuild + no profit to cost+5 rebuilds + a profit the crafters wants.

AGAIN I AM NOT AFTER TO RISE THE PRICES HIGH, JUST TO GET ALL PLAYERS TO UNDERSTAND I DONT WANT TO SELL FOR LOSS

I take it again so you realy understand. Crafters aint MENT to sell for LOSS and the REALM should NOT belive a item has a NORMAL price WAY under what it DOES COST to make as MOST do now when ppl sell WAY under COST when thay get to many.

All players want crafted items, If all crafters sell for cost as a minimum when thay get alot and with profit in normal ppl will pay that and YES that will be more then thay pay now BUT the prices now are LOSS for the maker. If you DONT understand this make your own LGM WC and spend alot of time and 30-60p depending on if you want to get max skill and then start selling for 150-200g under making price all the time.

Its inposible (close to as other crafters understand this and normaly pay normal) to sell say a war cleaver for 650-700g when ppl want em for 500g OR LESS...and thay cost almost 600g to make (570g)

 

[garnax]

old.osey when I read your reply i get the feeling we need to keep prices at loss so all understand there is no point of making a crafter.

 

[osy]

You sir, don't understand the _Market_ concept. Just because you got a few rotten deals, doesn't mean all have it like that.
The Market is what both seller and buyer make of it. If you can't cope with that, I suggest you stop crafting.

 

[osy]

BW is silly.

 

[osy]

yes sir..

 

[garnax]

a few rotten deals...i get same story every time
AND I know many others that do too.

if we have 50 LGM WC and 5 sell for under cost

the other 45 will hear thay charge to mutch...

 

[Jerelyn]

say i'm trying to make some 99% to sell.. i make 7 99% duskwodd heavy shod staves in 60 tries, that's an average of 8.5 retries on each staff. that is an average cost of 371g for making ONE staff (not included the "half stave").
now i wanna sell that staff and not lose money on it, so ofc i'm fair and want to sell the staffs for 380g each, that is 9g profit on ONE staff. then this random guy asks me if i have any 99% staves in stock, and ofc i have, i just made 7. i tell him the price is 380g for that staff, and he does not wanna buy it because he can get a staff for 250g...
that means that the crafter selling 99% staves for 250g makes 99% staves each 4 retry, and only earn 1g on each staff (you are a VERY lucky, and soon to be poor fletcher, mate)...

so you ppl out there, i totaly agree with garnax in not selling good crafted items to shit money. we are few who actually like to help the realm, and at the same time try to get our lost "skillup" money back, loads of crafter have spent 20p+ on skilling to legendary, just to be beaten by another crafter that wanna ruin the market and sell his items very very very cheap. cause then it makes no sence for newcoming crafter to try and get a costumercircle running...

-Jerelyn

 

[garnax]

So true my m8.


Korgano GM of BOM will join my cg as he feels same as I do.

Thanks korgano I realy hope we can make a difference.

 

[Urme the Legend]

The problem I see.. is that alot of crafters takes MP orders.. (I do on 2h weapons).. and they get alot of 99% left in vault that they can afford to sell cheap since someone payed for the MP. And that is the "problem" why crafters can sell them cheap anyway.

But I'm not taking any orders on 99% at all except for guildmates, just because I know that people take MP orders on those weapons and have alot instock much cheaper than I can sell them for. Just because I don't take MP orders on those weapons.

 

[Garh Khartari]

People that sell their 99% pieces cheap after making a MP order for someone are dumbasses.

 

[Vell]

Originally posted by Garh Khartari
People that sell their 99% pieces cheap after making a MP order for someone are dumbasses.

Care to explain that? I currently have 3 characters, whose entire vaults and inventories are full of 99% leather and cloth.

So I have a choice of letting it sit there gathering dust, or Itry sell it off cheap. What would you choose?

 

[garnax]

I do take MP orders on all arcanium and for cost on 2H as I get to skill for free and the left over I get I sell for cost+5 rebuilds...

in some rare ocation I got 20 99% after a MP order then I sold for cost+2 rebuilds.

But the prices I hear from ppl when I say my price is lesser then that. 300g for cleavers and war cleavers are aprox there.

If ALL crafters would take say 75% profit and that is fair for the time it takes to get LGM the money we spend AND the high quality item we sell...and MP leftovers for 0-10% markup
wont spoil the market so mutch as it does today.

IF the npc could sell arcanium thay take 50% on a 85% item

is it then so imposible for us to take 630g for a cleaver
that can be SC so mutch and be a great weapon better then almost any drop. For me to make that cleaver for you took very mutch time when you all ran arround having fun in emain or whatever and spended alot of plats...Iam on a total of 50p now or close to it. `

and a MP for 3.5p is silly it takes many many hours to make it and it has a avarge cost of 2.7-2.8p and is very rare.

All want and need good quality weapons and if we all rise our prices to a fair price for the crafters so we feel its worth our time
ppl will still have plenty enoghe to pay for it.

When i order a item I pay for aserite what thay want for arcanum
as I understand the cost and the time...

No need for sick prices just what our high quality item are worth.

 

[StormriderX]

To be honest I believe charging per retry is better than making weapons and then trying to flog them for a set price. This means crafter gets to avoid making a loss :x

 

[Denisée]

What can I say. What garnax is telling, is the truth. The marked on 99% does not exsist so and say. And when people who can't afford MP come and buy, ofcourse you got some in stock if you craft MPs. But when ask for a responsalbe price, everyone replay with 'piss off that is way to much' or something. The fact the time is spent to get LGM (speak to the none macroing people, darn I hate cheating) should pay off somehow.

A marked price for every 99% would been a great idea. The MPs can varier from craft to craft, so that should be posible to change. But with a marked price for every 99% crafters whould lend to crafters to get stopped yelling at when they tell their price.

I don't craft no more cause of this. Only clearing out what I currently got in stock. When I did craft MPs I did lose on every craft cause of my price, and since none wanted 99% I couldn't get the money back.

My suggestion is to make a marked price (like the one that was on the us-server), lets say 300-400% for 99% and MPs at pay per craft. People whould get use to it and accept it cause there was no other way to get that item, and beside to get your own LGM crafter is WAY more expensive than buy what you need from allready LGM crafters.

 

[Tasans]

Originally posted by Vell
Care to explain that? I currently have 3 characters, whose entire vaults and inventories are full of 99% leather and cloth.

So I have a choice of letting it sit there gathering dust, or Itry sell it off cheap. What would you choose?

Give it free to an upcoming sb who might need it?

Errr...

 

[Vell]

Originally posted by Tasans
Give it free to an upcoming sb who might need it?

Errr...

/slap


You know full well that Alaria can have a set whenever she wants, you just have to ask And pay me some money, of course

 

[Shaniah]

Guys, I couldn't agree more.
People who craft mp orders are selling 99%s for silly prices, and I must admit I'm one of them. When you hear people yell "Cleavers 99% 300g" you're not gonna offer yours for 450, even though they cost more than that to make. Of course you've already made money on the 100%, but storing 99%s takes vault space, which unfortunately we have a limited supply of.
Consequently, my Cleavers and 2h Swords go for 300, 400 if I can get away with it. Which does make me ashamed of myself.

However, I don't think we can change this easily. I think there will always be people who don't want to change, and who don't mind killing the market with 300g lvl 51 items. We'll just have to see..

I must say however that I've never had the problem that someone didn't want to buy the 99% (even at order price, which is cost+5 recrafts cost + markup) they asked for. Most people I encounter still seem to understand that prices are a matter of opportunity. I hope we can make the rest of Midgard see this.

Good luck brothers and sisters, and see you at the meeting.


p.s. I agree giving a set price is making crafting difficult too, but I do it on 99%... because the loss will not usually be THAT great when things go wrong. Never do it on a mp though, except shields.

 

[Galtor]

Craft per try and take 10% markup profit

Rest off spare time slavage you make alot off money =)

 

[garnax]

Set price on 99% works, sometimes you make a 99% in 1 try times in 3 and sometimes it takes more, but you get more money on the one you make fast and lesser on the one that takes many so on stock items you make +- 0 that way. On orders you have to charge per rebuild ofcourse.

last week I made 20 cleavers...got 2MP and 6 99% that will
let me do alot of 10 rebuild 99% still for profit (on a normal market)

had same luck today with my SB MP sword...made 2 at 17 tryes

But the point is not to have 1 price for all crafters...just a minimum price so no1 sells for loss.

Ppl will agree with this...when all does the same thay dont have
so mutch to say.

If we set a minimum price of cost+ rebuilds we get a free market to set our own markups and can still have some concurens on the market.

 

[garnax]

yep sounds fair...

all the time and money I spended NO MACRING HERE to get LGM, is worth 10% on a weapon..thats 20g on a item that costs 470g to make and takes some time

20g to lend you my time to make you some of the greatest item there is at a great quality...

 

[Garnet]

I only craft when someone agrees to my prices.

Stranger : Can you craft me qual 99 AF 102 studded set please?
Me : Sure, that will cost XXX to make. Is that okay?
Stranger : Sure

Order done and ill get crafting. I only do orders if the customer agrees to my prices.

If the items are already made then I just sell them for normal prices. I dont do reduced prices except for my guildmates. People dont like my prices they go elsewhere and im fine with that.

 

[garnax]

Simple as hell, agree.

today 9\10 tell me to fuckoff when I charge cost and a SMALL markup.

I dont sell no1 with a normal head get to sell as thay dont see the cheap 99%ers thay can find from ppl made MP orders as a LUCKY find a matter of oppertunity...thay see it as the standard price and that every1 else charge to mutch.,..witch it makes it better for every1 if we start to always take atleast cost
...its imposible to make money in a trade when some dont care if thay sell 100s of gold under cost price...

 

[old.anubis]

stop whine plz
if you cannot survive in this crafters' world, then stop crafting
for example i've bought mp cleaver for 1.8, mp wba for 1.5, mp hammer for 1.0, 99 leather set for 600, could buy shitloads of cheap studded etc. etc.
there are lotsa crafters out there who can afford themselves to sell stuff for such a low price, as i see you cannot
nooone will buy war cleaver for 700, noone, because you can easily buy it for 400. that's basic law of free market.

 

[Carlos Bananos]

Originally posted by old.anubis
stop whine plz
if you cannot survive in this crafters' world, then stop crafting
for example i've bought mp cleaver for 1.8, mp wba for 1.5, mp hammer for 1.0, 99 leather set for 600, could buy shitloads of cheap studded etc. etc.
there are lotsa crafters out there who can afford themselves to sell stuff for such a low price, as i see you cannot
nooone will buy war cleaver for 700, noone, because you can easily buy it for 400. that's basic law of free market.

but they do so by using other means of getting money, ie hinging.


Crafting alone is a shit way to make money, which it shouldn't be, seeing as it costs so much to get lgm.

 

[garnax]

Me and all other normal crafters should just stop craft.
If you cant afford to sell under cost then you should not be a crafter at all.

The entire world builds on cost+markup and special offers when you buy more items.

When I played in US 100% was normal, all charged that on there items. 100% markup was np with anyone. No1 never ever complained saying it was to mutch all understod it is cheaper then making there own LGM.

In EU its strange SC makes crafted items even better, so normaly price would rise but not here, here prices drop down to 50% of the cost price spoinling the market for everyone else.

You can still buy at the one charging less if all are on cost basis and take the markup thay want. But when ppl sell below cost there aint mutch anyone can do...but I will try

 

[Urme the Legend]

Originally posted by old.anubis
stop whine plz
if you cannot survive in this crafters' world, then stop crafting
for example i've bought mp cleaver for 1.8, mp wba for 1.5, mp hammer for 1.0, 99 leather set for 600, could buy shitloads of cheap studded etc. etc.
there are lotsa crafters out there who can afford themselves to sell stuff for such a low price, as i see you cannot
nooone will buy war cleaver for 700, noone, because you can easily buy it for 400. that's basic law of free market.

A War Cleaver 99% could cost more then 700g in just material cost.. you loose 63g each retry on a War Cleaver..
So let's say 5 failed tries and the 6th becomes 99%.. that is 5*63 + 251g (251g is 1 war cleavers material cost) = 566g ...

I'm selling War Cleavers for 550g atm that is only because I have around 10 war cleavers in vault since I made a MP.

But I wouldn't sell a War Cleaver for less than 600g if I didn't have alot of those in my vault.

 

[The Kingpin]

Dident think there was any crafters left..

Well, level 1-45 anyway,

As they just ignore you

 

[garnax]

Will make it simple then you can agree or not.

We here have a LGM he spended 4 months and aprox 50p to get the skill he has.

Now he makes a small stock and builds 2 99% of the big sellers.

he sets his price with the merchants in the game and takes a 50% markup for his 99% items. On for an example a cleaver his price is 577g

No a orderer wants a cleaver and he has one so he says I have a few in stock, the buyer ask for price and he answers 577g plz.
Now that gets a follow up buy 5 min yelling telling you are a rip-off. And says normal price is 300g. The crafters knows he will lose money on that deal and says no.

This is a normal crafters with a low markup if you see to the quality you get.

What has this crafter done wrong...

IF the buyer would have sayd: Hmm, 577g nha I cant afford that I will try to find one that sells left overs from MP order for 500g insted wouldent that be more normal, crafters try to grab costomuers by diffrent markups not with hwo can sell most under cost...