Alcoholism

[Chilly]

I'm 26 and in the last ~4 years or so (basically since uni) I've come across probably 6 full blown alcoholics among friends and colleagues. It appears to be fairly common and pretty much fully accepted by others. They all freely admit it and they all sit down the boozer at the end of the day and put the pints away - it's an odd situation.

This isnt some kind of veiled cry for help, btw - I'm fully in control of the amount I drink and can take it or leave it. That's not to say I dont enjoy a pint or get shitfaced every once in a while

What are your experiences of alcoholics day to day? Does everyone know one/some? Am I special in terms of profession (software dev in London) or social position (middle class, well educated) or is it the norm?

 

[Edmond]

I'm very drunk right now....blame deebs....bastard

 

[Zenith.UK]

Your friends and colleagues aren't alcoholics. They're alcohol abusers. They like to get drunk and the fact they sit in the pub at the end and talk openly about it says they aren't alcoholics.
True alcoholics either hide the fact of their addiction or acknowledge it and make a point of avoiding drinks or situations where they might be in a position to drink socially. You wouldn't see them in a pub if they're on the wagon, or you would if they've fallen off it.

I've only ever known 2 true alcoholics.
The first one got abusive with Mum one night after he'd had a few (this was not long after her divorce). She stopped seeing him from that moment on.
The second was a "proper" alcoholic in that once he started a drink, he had to finish the whole bottle. It wasn't because he wanted to. It was because he simply couldn't stop once he'd started. He had the DT's and jaundice and even the guilt-trip phone calls. I dropped him as a friend when I realised he was in complete denial and had no intention of helping himself.

I reckon location is a big part of it. The mentality of people who live and work in London is entirely different to people who live in less urban and affluent areas. To hold down a job in London takes a certain attitude as well as qualifications and experience. That attitude to work hard lends itself to play hard as well.

 

[old.Tohtori]

I know plenty of alcoholics and these days the word, like many others(depression, adhd etc) gets flung about way too easily.

Then again, the whole UK mentality is different as you pretty much need to drink 24/7 here to be an alcoholic, some brits have said that drinking two nights a week is an alcohol problem.

The thing is, if you head over to the pub every day after work, you're not really an alcoholic. You've got a problem, sure, but it's just that. Full blown alcoholic means you're drunk pretty much 24/7.

The moment you NEED alcohol to function, then you're into alcoholic territory.

 

[Chilly]

Your friends and colleagues aren't alcoholics. They're alcohol abusers. They like to get drunk and the fact they sit in the pub at the end and talk openly about it says they aren't alcoholics.

I think I disagree, in part at least. One guy I know goes to the same pub every lunch time and every evening and drinks over 1.5 bottles of wine per day, before he even gets home where he presumably carries on. He's as regular as clockwork. He even persuaded the pub to buy in his favourite wine, such is his level of consumption.

Others may well fall into the abusers category rather than full blown alcoholics, though I'm unsure. Another will quite happily put away over 500ml of vodka every night and get totally smashed doing it. Another used to have 4 or 5 pints every day at lunch and then 10 more after work and I know for a fact that if he failed to recruit anyone to come to the pub with him he'd just go home and drink there.

I've known barmen who will drink the equivalent of over 8 pints on an 8 hour shift (not a huge pint/hour rate but it's significant on a regular basis).

This of course doesnt even count those alcoholics I no doubt encounter who hide the fact and I have not noticed.

 

[Trem]

Alcoholics don't wait until the end of the day for a drink, they wake up and have one then carry it on until they go bed. If your friends were true alcoholics they would have a bottle of vodka hidden in their drawer at work.

Like has been said in this thread they wouldn't sit there and talk about it, its done more in secret, vodka is a favourite because there isn't any/much odour to it.

 

[old.user4556]

Alcohol is a very serious problem here in Scotland. The majority of my friends and peers can't seem to get through most days without alcohol, it's almost a badge of honour if you update your Facebook with how shitfaced you got on a school night and how hungover you were at work the following day.

Almost all social activities here are carried out with alcohol; I was out for a game of golf today and the group infront of me had a can of lager open at 10am. Go anywhere on a train in Scotland and they'll be drunk people on it at any time of the day. If you're brave, go to a cinema in Scotland and watch as arseholes pitch up with a dozen lagers and start talking in the middle of a flick.

It's disgusting.

With regards to Chilly's pals, I only have one friend that drinks most of the day, every day. He's in the pub every night, drunk every night and probably drinks in the morning although I don't have proof of it. We've drifted apart as friends, I wish him all the best.

YouTube - Drunk man passes out and falls into a bush

 

[throdgrain]

I think I disagree, in part at least. One guy I know goes to the same pub every lunch time and every evening and drinks over 1.5 bottles of wine per day, before he even gets home where he presumably carries on. He's as regular as clockwork. He even persuaded the pub to buy in his favourite wine, such is his level of consumption.

.

My Dad did this for 40 years. He was a company director. My brother drinks like a fish. He also is a company director. I dont mean they are / were self-employed, I mean big companies, employing 100's of people.

I dont think either of them would consider themselves an alcoholic, nor would an alcoholic be able to carry out a job that pays 100k + a year ...

 

[yaruar]

My Dad did this for 40 years. He was a company director. My brother drinks like a fish. He also is a company director. I dont mean they are / were self-employed, I mean big companies, employing 100's of people.

I dont think either of them would consider themselves an alcoholic, nor would an alcoholic be able to carry out a job that pays 100k + a year ...

I disagree with the last part, often they are and they do, there are lots of very successful people who are alcoholics, who function well enough to get by, in the same way there are people who are drug addicts who can continue to function (at least for a while until they completely break down)

The hiding the drinking/addiction isn't always the case too, it's just one of the symptoms, in environments where the addition is accepted this isn't always the case.

 

[throdgrain]

What he "continued to function " for 40 years ?? Earning £100k + for 40 years?? And thats the same as being a drug addict is it??

You've gone mad. I knew loads of drug addicts in my youth, more than alcoholics. The junkies are all dead these last 20 years. You're equating 12 amps of smack a day with a couple of bottles of wine? You're saying that someone could carry on doing a high powered job like that on gear?

I seriously doubt your sanity

 

[rynnor]

You've gone mad. I knew loads of drug addicts in my youth, more than alcoholics. The junkies are all dead these last 20 years. You're equating 12 amps of smack a day with a couple of bottles of wine? You're saying that someone could carry on doing a high powered job like that on gear?

He's not talking about smack I think he means cocaine and other 'recreational' drugs rather than smackheads.

I know alcoholics/coke heads on a lot more than 100k (thats like lower managment pay now btw) who have been alcoholics for decades and functioned sufficiently to keep in their jobs.

You dont have to be a tramp sat on a park bench to be an alcoholic.

 

[throdgrain]

I disagree though. An alcoholic is someone who has a vodka for breakfast. Not someone who goes up the pub at lunchtime!

I think it's this kind of pc rationalisation. When I started work there was an ash tray on every desk. Nowadays you have to go stand in the rain to have a fag It's only so long before they call smokers "potential cancer victims" or "passive murderers" or something. I have known a couple of alcoholics. These were people who drank all day long, then either died or gave up. I knew one bloke who quit smack, then took up drinking, and died of that. You cant odds it.

As far as the 100k thing goes, excuse me, but I dont get 100k now. Shit, I dont get 50k. I'll be pleased to see 30k this year. Dont know what kind of middle management you're talking about.

My dad was a Lonrho director in the '80s, if you know who they are/ were.

 

[russell]

When does a 'heavy drinker' become an alcoholic?
When he cannot not drink?
When she wakes up wanting a drink?
When they cannot function/ face life without a drink?

 

[yaruar]

He's not talking about smack I think he means cocaine and other 'recreational' drugs rather than smackheads.

I know alcoholics/coke heads on a lot more than 100k (thats like lower managment pay now btw) who have been alcoholics for decades and functioned sufficiently to keep in their jobs.

You dont have to be a tramp sat on a park bench to be an alcoholic.

No, i'm talking about a managing director who used to smoke heroin in the office (we found his used foil) Admittedly he was only in his 40's but had held down high level jobs since his 20's. Some people just have a way of functioning at that level. I was more thinking about drinking, there are plenty of ******dly successful alcoholics.

 

[Bugz]

I know alcoholics/coke heads on a lot more than 100k (thats like lower managment pay now btw) who have been alcoholics for decades and functioned sufficiently to keep in their jobs.

100k for management is the lower quartile?

I'd love to see the data which leads you to that conclusion.

 

[old.user4556]

I know alcoholics/coke heads on a lot more than 100k (thats like lower managment pay now btw)

As far as the 100k thing goes, excuse me, but I dont get 100k now.

I'm with Throd, where the fuck pays £100,000 a year for lower management?

Perhaps I work for the wrong company, but in my place (and they publish the payscales...) lower management certainly don't anywhere near that, and infact fairly senior management probably don't get to sniff £80,000.

 

[Sparx]

Id say they arent alcoholics. My grandad is an alcoholic, he hasnt touched a drop in 29 years, and he still cant look at an alcoholic drink without getting a weird look in his eye like nothing else in the world matters more than that drink. None of us are allowed to go near him if we have consumed booze.

It really does change your life and if they were true alcoholics they wouldnt be like Phil Mitchell happily sitting in a boozer

 

[old.user4556]

Where does one draw the line between alcohol abuse and alcoholism?

My mate 'probably just enjoys a good drink' in most people's eyes, but when he's had to sell his car, sell his flat and move back with his parents (due to financial woes, probably drink related) then surely that's the brink of alcoholism?

 

[old.Tohtori]

The line is easy; if you can't function without drinking.

If you can take two days off, for a wedding or whatnot, to not drink; you're not alcoholic.

 

[Trem]

The line is easy; if you can't function without drinking.

If you can take two days off, for a wedding or whatnot, to not drink; you're not alcoholic.

Oh god, am I about to say it....yes I am.....I agree with Toht.

By the way I watched my dad drown in his own fluids because his liver was fucked and wasn't functioning due to alcohol, it was awesome fun when he sat up in hospital to tell me he was suffocating.

He was 59 when he died and had been drinking pretty much none stop for 30 years, all things considered he lasted way longer than anyone thought he would, along with his 40 Bensons a day as well. He used to have a can of Special Brew by his bed for a drink if he woke in the night. He used to have vodka with orange for his breakfast. That is an alcoholic.

I drink every night but cannot drink before 7pm for some reason, I don't consider myself an alcoholic the beer is just so more-ish

 

[old.Tohtori]

Well i'm a recoverng alcoholic myself, almost back up to 2 days a week!

 

[Chilly]

Throd - dont get all right wing on us!

It's my contention that someone who has over half a bottle of wine every lunchtime and at least another full one after work is an alcoholic. They drink habitually and get drunk every day. How can that not be alcoholism?

 

[Vasconcelos]

I dont touch alcohol in between weekends, with the solely exception of a couple of pints if theres footy on tuesday/wednesday. And even so i prefer to drink Fanta many times

Its like with coke, you rly (trully really) start having problems the moment you take your first one on a working monday morning

 

[DaGaffer]

Throd - dont get all right wing on us!

It's my contention that someone who has over half a bottle of wine every lunchtime and at least another full one after work is an alcoholic. They drink habitually and get drunk every day. How can that not be alcoholism?

Or maybe they're French?

 

[old.Tohtori]

Throd - dont get all right wing on us!

It's my contention that someone who has over half a bottle of wine every lunchtime and at least another full one after work is an alcoholic. They drink habitually and get drunk every day. How can that not be alcoholism?

That's a drinking problem, or indeed, french.

Alcoholism is much mroe severe, and i for one don't care for the easily flinged names. Such as everyone having depression who has an off day.

Pisses all over the people with real problems, since they get lobbed in the pile with the rest so called "problem" people who jsut need a kick on the arse.

 

[Sparx]

Its not how much you drink but how often and how much you need to drink

You could drink 30 pints a week and still not be an alcoholic

 

[old.Tohtori]

Yeap, agree with Sparxy there. I'm no alcoholic(even if Finnish) and i took down a hefty amount of alcohol last two weekends(around 4 hard liqour one, 30 pints the other).

 

[DaGaffer]

I'm with Throd, where the fuck pays £100,000 a year for lower management?

Perhaps I work for the wrong company, but in my place (and they publish the payscales...) lower management certainly don't anywhere near that, and infact fairly senior management probably don't get to sniff £80,000.

Micheal Page always do a fairly good salary survey every year (they do one for Marketing, one for Finance etc.) In the financial sector, which is always one of the better average payers, 100K would still be considered high end (low end of Director, high end of "Head of" type levels); hardly junior management. Of course its not the basic salary when the big wins are, its the bonuses, share options and other perks.

 

[throdgrain]

Incidently, I sold a bike to a bloke who was a director of a high street clothes chain recently. He wanted finance till his bonus came He didnt earn much more than 100k either.

I dont know how this lower management gets 100k thing comes about. How much do you get at Mcdonalds? 40 grand? lolz.

Read Trems reply to this thread, and perhaps understand alcoholism. Half a bottle of wine at lunch and a bottle in the evening doesnt make you an alcoholic, not unless your standards are pretty wierd.

 

[ford prefect]

What are your experiences of alcoholics day to day? Does everyone know one/some? Am I special in terms of profession (software dev in London) or social position (middle class, well educated) or is it the norm?

I have worked with literally hundreds of alcoholics and seen the worst things that can happen, both to the alcoholic and those around them. It is a terrible disease. It causes far more harm long term than any other addiction and it is a pretty horrific thing for friends and family to have to live with too.

Background often has little to do with Alcoholism, it generally starts as a coping mechanism for specific insecurities or social inadequacies and with the right genetics it pretty quickly develops into a complete dependency. Basically if you are prone to it, it’s probably going to affect you at some point.

I too like a drink, but Alcoholism is an entirely different beast. When you are talking to an alcoholic who has had that one drink too far, you are talking to an entirely different personality and trying to reason with an Alcoholic who isn't ready to change is a completel waste of time. It is something you can never be truely free from and and form of recovery is always a hard road.