Alcoholic Dead at 22

[Embattle]

Alcoholic Gary Reinbach dead at 22 after transplant refused - Times Online

Any one else read about this guy today and what are your views considering the increase in binge drinking.

 

[Ctuchik]

no pity from me. 22 and so destroyed by alcohol means he must have started in his early teens and never been sober a day from there on.

shoot the parents aswell for not doing anything about it earlier as they are clearly to stupid to take up breathing space...

 

[Trem]

Ok well this concerns me slightly.

My dad died of liver disease due to being an alcoholic but in all honesty I wouldn't of wanted him to have a donor liver. He would of just carried on drinking.

I 100% agree with the doctors decision, if this guy was given a new liver he would of simply fucked it up as well, much like my dad would of.

Its a fucker of an addiction to get rid of, booze is just so readily available.

I miss my dad

 

[tris-]

Read it. Initially it made me think as I am concerned about my own alcohol consumption and I had my first drinking sessions around that age too. I am I also23. I have of course been on holidays where I got drunk everynight and it makes me wonder what state is my liver in now? I am going on holiday for a week, starting on saturday. I am concerned again because no doubt i will drink a lot, I cant seem to not. There is also a lot of pressure from friends to drink even if you dont want it. However, I have decided to be determined and not cave in and not drink for the sake of drinking. But i know once i start i cant usually stop
However, the report is not very detailed. How much did he actually drink? Is using the phrase binge drinking in there just a way to hype up the problems? For all we know, he could have been a chronic abuser, and not what i call a binge drinker (getting hammered on a weekend).

I have also noticed my dad drinks everyday. Doesnt seem to be a massive amount to get pissed, but it appears to be 2 of those usual sized bottles of larger or a can or so. which is also concerning. drinking alcohol is almost too normal where i live.

 

[Bugz]

I think, after posting that link, our views on binge drinking are much less interesting than the views on whether he should have been considered for a new liver or not.

I don't even know if I could give a view on such an issue and it must be no easy task for a doctor either.

 

[nath]

Unpleasant though it may sound I think it's actually quite an easy decision to say no. There must be a huge amount of people who need a transplant, it really should go to the person who is most likely to make the best of the new liver.

 

[Trem]

Totally agree with Nath (uncool beard wearing herb grower).

It was my dad I watched die and I wouldn't of wante dhim to have a new liver, he truly would of carried on drinking. Yes he may of lived longer but it wouldn't of changed anything as regards his drinking.

This guy to die at 22 he must of drank pretty much every hour of the day 24/7.

My dad was 59 and he totally fucking caned the booze for 20 years (I remember him taking Special Brew to bed and drinking it when he woke in the night and also it was the first drink he had in the morning).

 

[tris-]

Trem, not to make light of what happened but when i hear things like that, i wonder how much of the media stuff is spin?
As above i am worried about my own usage, but then i also wonder is it actually causing me a problem or is the news making me think it does?

Reckon the doctor would carry out a liver function test if i went and asked?

 

[Ch3tan]

tris- I am down to 5-3 units a week now. I've never considered myself a massive drinker, but I did like to drink a lot when I was out. Now I think that what I have had over the years is too much, yet a lot of my peers drink a LOT more. I wonder what the NHS will do when our generations livers start going tits up?

As for the main topic, I do not think people who have self abused should be given organs before those that are afflicted with conditions outside their control. It is not nice, but when you have hundreds of people on waiting lists then you need to ensure that the transplant is not wasted.

 

[Trem]

Trem, not to make light of what happened but when i hear things like that, i wonder how much of the media stuff is spin?
As above i am worried about my own usage, but then i also wonder is it actually causing me a problem or is the news making me think it does?

Reckon the doctor would carry out a liver function test if i went and asked?

Unless you drink....constantly I imagine you are ok.

I drink but I didn't start until I was 30. I drink every night.

All I can say is if you are worried luv then get a test done, basically what happens when you die from this is you drown in your own fluids very slowly.

I begged the nurses to raise my dads morphiine but he was already on the top dose.

I also smoke and I am well aware of the risks but it winds me the fuck up how people don't realise the risks of alcohol.

 

[rynnor]

Sad - however unless theres a massive increase in donors there will always be rationing in some form and restricting it to former alcoholics that have shown themselves able to live without alcohol seems reasonable.

Someone on that article commented that one of the family could have donated part of their liver. I wonder why they didnt investigate that route but tbh in this case he died so soon after diagnosis even if he was on the list he'd probably still be dead?

Its good to see his death got some publicity though - maybe it will deter some from following in his footsteps?

Edit: Alcohol is incredibly destructive - every male on my mothers side of the family for at least 3 generations has drunk themselves to an early death - both of my male cousins are alcoholics on the same path - its a terrible drawn out way of killing themselves.

 

[Bugz]

Even if you weren't aware of the risks, the god awful pics on the cigarette packs would remind you I'm sure!

What a waste of time those pics and writing are - all the people I've served 3 years ago I still serve now - I can think of a handful who have given up.

 

[ECA]

I drink like 2-3 units a month atm do I need to be concerned?

 

[Roo Stercogburn]

A fair number of people here showing they don't understand addictive behaviour and the many unhappy causes of it.

 

[tris-]

Unless you drink....constantly I imagine you are ok.

I drink but I didn't start until I was 30. I drink every night.

All I can say is if you are worried luv then get a test done, basically what happens when you die from this is you drown in your own fluids very slowly.

I begged the nurses to raise my dads morphiine but he was already on the top dose.
.

I dont drink constantly but when i drink i drink a shit load.

In may it was my final fling party at uni, and i started drinking at 9am untill 12am. Probably drank about 20 pints and what ever spirits. Id had 3 pints by breakfast, 2 of them WITH breakfast. When i was about 17 or so i used to be able to drink a bottle of vodka and then go out on the town. i did also weigh about 19st, but a liver is a liver right?

Its because i started drinking in my teens that i wonder if my liver was not fully developed by then, and i went and fucked it up with booze.

I dont like going to the docs at the best of times though. Asking him to check my liver cos i drink a load would be even more difficult!

bugz, have you ever had a moral conflict selling cigs to people you know will die from COPD? not a flame bait or anything, i have wondered it my self what goes through peoples head who sell the stuff. my mother has smoked for fucking yonks and is showing the signs now of serious damage, but cant or wont stop. i have come to terms with it my self but is horrible to see it everyday. even worse is i ocassionaly smoke my self even though i can see first hand how bad it is.

 

[nath]

A fair number of people here showing they don't understand addictive behaviour and the many unhappy causes of it.

If that's aimed at those of us who don't think he should have received the liver, it's not that I'm unsympathetic. I think the whole thing is very sad and I certainly don't have the "he brought it on himself" mentality. The fact of the matter is that it's more likely that he would continue to abuse alcohol than someone who doesn't have a drinking problem. Ultimately that means that person should get the liver.

Sorry to hear about your dad Trem, sounds like pretty fucking harrowing stuff.






Oh, and I'm not really posting in DAOC any more, you can check!

 

[Rubber Bullets]

Sharon's father died the Friday before last of a hepatoma, a liver tumour linked to cirrhosis and diabetes, he drank a lot at one time in his life, but hadn't drunk heavily in the last few years. A transplant is the only thing that could have saved him, but he wasn't considered, in the end there were only 6 weeks between diagnosis and his death. The funeral was yesterday.

In the last couple of weeks i also discovered that an old girlfriend of mine, from over 20 years ago, also died of liver disease linked to alcohol.

RB

 

[Ch3tan]

A fair number of people here showing they don't understand addictive behaviour and the many unhappy causes of it.

Not at all, we are simply being realistic. If you let emotion in on decisions like this you will end up helping no one. Not enough organs to help everyone means that there has to be some selection process.

 

[Trem]

Sorry to hear about your dad Trem, sounds like pretty fucking harrowing stuff.






Oh, and I'm not really posting in DAOC any more, you can check!

Ta luv, for the record I never thought you were uncool for posting in there, I just grouped you with tris and Cal..........*runs*

My dad made me so angry, so fucking furious, he was told dozens of times what will happen but he carried on. I know he was addicted to it, I know it made his divorce easier to handle, I basically know the way my mum was killed him slowly but even so I wouldn't of wanted him to have a new liver.

I remember him telling me when I was in my early teens "have a drink son but never smoke, drinking is easy to quit but fags are impossible"

 

[Roo Stercogburn]

Actually, I wasn't even referring to the liver replacement possibility, just the pervading attitude in some of the posts which show little understanding and uninformed judgements being passed.

That doesn't mean people have some obligation to know the full depth of such things but I'd caution against too much posturing without some grounding in the background to these types of condition.

 

[Bugz]

bugz, have you ever had a moral conflict selling cigs to people you know will die from COPD? not a flame bait or anything, i have wondered it my self what goes through peoples head who sell the stuff. my mother has smoked for fucking yonks and is showing the signs now of serious damage, but cant or wont stop. i have come to terms with it my self but is horrible to see it everyday. even worse is i ocassionaly smoke my self even though i can see first hand how bad it is.

If I'm honest I never know what to think. On the one side, it's their life to do as they please and if they should choose to smoke whilst others may eat too much or may mod their cars etc. then I guess that is perfectly fine. But on the other side, when you encounter individuals whom you can see the effects of smoking on, it does make you think. I encountered one lady who had virtually lost her voicebox and her skin was so damn awful it was disgusting. She ended up purchasing cigarettes. Should it be my moral obligation to tell her I think she shouldn't have them? I'm not too sure really and I guess it comes down to whether she's truly addicted or it just feels a void in her life nothing else can fill.

One thing people should watch out for if they are drinking is your central nervous system becoming damaged. I've served more people with involuntary shaking than I have people with any symptoms of cigarettes visible on the outside. It's quite sad really; esp. when they can't pack for themselves; get out their own coins etc. etc. Yet they will come back and purchase more and more alcohol.

The state needs to introduce tighter laws/regulations/something rather than simply educating the masses. Educating won't cure addictions; therapy and prevention methods may.

 

[tris-]

addicted to fags or alcohol, you will die slowly and in pain and your quality of life will go tits up.

bugz.
i think the only worthwile control would be to stop addicts from being able to buy the goods. i can see that smoking is so addictive, someone will do it even though they cough all the tiome and cant breath for shit. but i think if she could not buy cigarattes because the shop wont sell them, she would have no choice but to stop.

 

[nath]

Actually, I wasn't even referring to the liver replacement possibility, just the pervading attitude in some of the posts which show little understanding and uninformed judgements being passed.

You said a fair number of comments, the only really stupid contribution to this thread that I noticed was from Ctuchik. Was it just that one or did you have others that you disagreed with?


edit: Tris, banning stuff leads to a black market which could end up making things much worse.

 

[Trem]

Great post Bugz.

Too true tris.

What winds me up the most is all these warnings, why doesn't the government just ban these things if they are so dangerous to us (because they make too much money from them thats why).

I honestly would not care if tobacco and alcohol was banned/made illegal. Heroin is illegal as is weed and I am surprised they are still banned because of the tax this country could make from it.

I would love to see the figures of people killed by legal (revenue giving) drugs compared to illegal drugs.

Legal (and most addictive) drugs are nicotine and alcohol (and caffeine). Nicotine is more addictive than heroine.

Grrrrr.

 

[tris-]

edit: Tris, banning stuff leads to a black market which could end up making things much worse.

Yes i am probably being too narrowminded as i am only applying to my own situation where the person in question would be very unlikely to go scouring back streets for cigs. I am not talking about a complete ban though. i am talking about there being a ban on 'certified individuals' if you will, from buying certain products.

obviously will never happen though, it just couldnt work. unless in the future, all purchases are made electronically and the medical bods could put restrictions on your 'token' that you use to buy stuff.

Trem i always wondered about illegal drugs too. apparently some of them are proven to be less harmful than cigarettes or alcohol but are still illegal. there is a graph somewhere on bbc news.

 

[Bugz]

Smokers are discriminated against so much now though that they are only damaging themselves and the poor sods who have to live with them etc.

Drug addicts and drug users on the other hand can be much more violent and aggressive to the wider community. My father says most calls he gets now are drug-related; and they can range from annything from verbal abuse to assault/GBH/burglary.

The drug situation is spiraling out of control in my area - banning them certainly isn't the fuckin answer though, that's for sure.

 

[tris-]

The problem there is, I bet that these individuals also have other things in common on top of drug taking. It may not be completley down to drugs.

 

[Tom]

I'm not going to judge this guy, it sounds like he had a shit start in life. One of my best mates drinks more than he should, he looks ten years older than me but actually he's about a month older. I don't judge him, either.

Its harsh for him but perhaps these rules exist so doctors aren't forced to make such decisions.

 

[00dave]

I personally don't understand how people can become alcoholics, I don't mean to sound high and mighty, obviously its a serious problem for some people and I'm very sorry to hear about your dad Trem, but as weird as it sounds I really don't enjoy the taste of alcohol and I really don't enjoy being drunk. Throughout my life I have had to force myself to go out drinking with my friends and often will just drive and drink water all night instead. To give you an idea I've been drunk once this year and I only really drink to get drunk, so my intake is very very low. Is anybody else the same as me or am I unique?

Tris after our discussions about your joining the RAF I feel it's important to warn you that any peer pressure you've felt from your friends up to now will be nothing compared to the peer pressure you'll get in any of the armed forces when it comes to drinking.

 

[tris-]

Thanks dave.
I was deferred from entering the RAF though untill next year. Some temporary medical problem apparently

Hopefully if i ever get in there, I will be suitably armed against alcohol.