Alchemy/Spellcrafting - Overpowered?

[rynnor]

This is a quick snip from the Camelot Herald guide to Alchemy:

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High level alchemists can also imbue items with attributes, similar to spellcrafters. (Note however that unlike spellcrafted jewel imbues, they do not take up jewel slots, but are added directly to the item itself.) The abilities that can be imbued include:

“Procs”, or damage spells that have a chance of firing off when the weapon is used. At higher levels, Haste, AF buffs, Damage over Time spells, and Damage Shields can also be imbued as procs.
Charged spells, which can be fired on command. Alchemists can also recharge charged items. Charged spells include direct damage, and at higher levels, haste, AF buffs, Damage over Time spells, Damage Shield spells, and very powerful direct damage charges.
Reactive spells, or spells placed on armor which act as “reverse procs”. These can include damage spells (on the attacker, not the armor wearer!), combat haste, AF buffs, Damage over Time spells, Damage Shield spells, and Ablative Aura.
“Particle Effects”. They don’t do anything except look cool, which, of course, is a requirement of any high-powered magic item. (Note: particle effects at this time have been scheduled for introduction with Phase II, along with jewelcraft.)
"Ablative Aura" is a new effect introduced with Alchemy (replacing Bladeturn, which would have been too powerful a reactive effect). This spell gives the player additional magical hit points. Everytime you are hit 1/2 the damage goes to the Aura and the player takes the other 1/2. This occurs till the Aura is broken. At that time the player will take full damage again.
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I knew Spellcrafting was gonna be powerfull but I never thought Alchemy would be like this!!!

This stuff is pretty sick really - its nice that there will be demand for player made items again but with the kind of powers you can load onto this stuff who will bother with drops???

Imagine a full suit of 6 pieces of armor all fully spellcrafted and every piece bearing this ablative aura and other reactive procs - yeugh

Everyone will have a proccing particle effect weapon - how laggy will that be in combat!!!

Even so - bagsy me spellcrafting - just looking for an alchemist partner

 

[SFXman]

Sounds quite powerful, but I am amused at the sight of a person with each item enchanted with some spell or proc or whatever. *ziuuuu* *babooom* *piuuuuu* *zip* *zap* *thiuuuzzz* *ziiirrzzzchh*
Look! It's a relic raid, all I see is this huge mess of colors... ooo it's a still picture too.

 

[Brannor McThife]

Can I place an order for a Particle Energy Weapon and a lightsabre so long?

Currently, the only items that people "hunt for" are one or two OTD's (one time drops) jewels and weapons that are 100% quality. After that it's a few magic items like rings, etc. Otherwise, to get buy on armour, just shop at Ye Olde Darkness Falls, and when you get the money and levels, have yourself a crafted weapon made to go with your Epic armour.

Even the stuff you get from Raum/Malmo will simply be worn Inrealm when killing mobs for something as apposed to epic armour. My epic armour (warrior) give me a higher AF, but crap skills and resists as opposed to my inrealm armour.

Bah, mob drops was fooked the day DF arrived, and when these arrive some areas will only ever see people running past. Who in Albion would spend all that time doing the L12 stealth cloak quest when you can get someone to buy you the L45 that is patterned...

Played NWN this weekend. Now why don't Mythic spend a little time adding voice emotes and more action in...like a real taunt for Trolls? Or a high pitched psycho cackle for kobolds?

Would hardly take much time, but would add so much to the ambience. Oh well, back to NWN tonight.

-G

 

[Danya]

You can already get a lot of these effects on items in the game. There are BT proc weapons, heal proc armour pieces, loads of particle weapons etc. etc. The only thing spellcrafting and alchemy does is allow you to get high quality versions more easily.

 

[Jiggs]

this Friar is going for alchemy

alchemy>spellcrafting

why?

lifedrain procs
abaltive procs
uber poisons
buff(!!!!!) potions
in combat (!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) heal potions

keep your +10slash, i'll take a heal potions and my procs thanks very mucho

 

[Brannor McThife]

You miss the point Dannyn. My point is that ONCE AGAIN, by "improving" one area of the game, Mythic is killing another. Most people who will make use of this are L50's. And you'll find fewer and fewer people going to certain places to kill mobs for items. I haven't been to the Hagbui's in Vanern swamp in ages. Nobody seems to want to go, why? Because you can probably buy better stuff in DF now.

Sure, we all want new things, but at what cost? Come on, ask yourself this, how many of you used to click on the mobs in Warcraft 2 to the point that they started threatening you? The dwarves that loved blowing things up? The knights who told you to stop touching them? Emotes, ambience, and yes, as someone mentioned somewhere, give us an active frontier. Why not have princes in DF launch attacks on the different realms? For me, I'd prefer content, and randomness.

Another thing (taking the BG series, NWN, etc into consideration) is that the cities are all DEAD. Static NPC's just standing there 24/7. Jeez, do they never sleep? Sure there is the wanderring guard or two, and yes, we've seen one or two NPC's added by GOA to Camelot, Jordheim and Tir na Nog. But, come on...get some life into the stuffy place. Sure, the Albs have their own "pubs" going in Camelot. But why not introduce non-guards that roam the streets? IMHO, the cities need a little life, instead of being a complicated array of building housing merchants.

Yes, I know, it's also down to us to do this, but with 3 instruments and 3 sounds, minstrels get tiring after a while.

-G

 

[Whandall]

I dont know how much platin the ppl have that are on 50 for 2month or longer but spellcrafting/alchemy will be damn expensive and you must hunt for the best ingredients. For me as a lvl 42 i cant pay for a set of crafted armour 95%quality(better 100%) and weapons.

 

[rynnor]

Originally posted by Brannor McThife
You miss the point Dannyn. My point is that ONCE AGAIN, by "improving" one area of the game, Mythic is killing another. Most people who will make use of this are L50's. And you'll find fewer and fewer people going to certain places to kill mobs for items

Indeed though another big problem with this stuff is that it destroys the point of doing quests and unbalances the PvE game even further in the Players advantage.

PvE is not exactly super tuff now but once hyper-twinks (TM) hit town it could fast become a joke.

 

[the_smurflord]

As far as I can see, you are all missing two important points.
Your epic armour ain't going to last for ever!
Most of the components to make the best items will be rare drops.

Long-term this will be the only way to replace them, and make the weapons you want. Drop hunts will still be there, but just with different targets.

 

[Slipurson]

Totaly agree with smurflord and yes it will be some rare drops needed for these type of crafts, not just to go kill some thralls in spindel to get some gems and then make a cloak with 10 charges of 400 DD .... and it is not like it will take 3 days and then all lvl 50's will have full sets of af102 and items that are just full of procs and stats that are exactly what they need... this will take loads of money and seeing that the Relic raids have increased a bit... and some guilds put loads of money in the doors and so on it will not be several mithrils to spend on crafting...

 

[old.Pepsay]

gimme a glowing spear! >: |

 

[Brannor McThife]

Visit, you assume that most of us will be around to see our epic armour drop below 50%...

-G

 

[Ottar]

> My point is that ONCE AGAIN, by "improving"
> one area of the game, Mythic is killing another

Care to elaborate that one? Closest thing I can think of is epic armors negating high level armorcrafting (which spellcrafting and alchemy are supposed to fix).

> Most people who will make use of this are L50's. And you'll find
> fewer and fewer people going to certain places to kill mobs for items.

So, less itemfarming. Can’t say I see spending hours, even days farming for some specific piece as something I will miss. DF loot system is actually an improvement. Instead of a dozen GA spears one could have either the item of their choice or cash for seals to show for their trouble. Not that most DF diamond stuff can compete with epic armors and dropped/crafted weapons. What spellcrafting quite likely does kill off is buying items for seals. Those seals will be much better converted into cash to buy crafted/spellcrafted items.

Now, spellcrafting wil be an improvement over DF, as now we can spend jolly good time designing our own outfits and weaponry.

Next thing they are likely to do is to provide some sensible means to farm cash instead of that ridiculous salvage and trinketing DF stuff, so that people can actually afford crafted items.

You really want to farm items, as I understand the new 1.53 frontier dungeons have a random loot system, customdesigned for heavy farming. So, there ya go.

> I haven't been to the Hagbui's in Vanern swamp in ages.

You miss them? Why?

> Come on, ask yourself this, how many of you used to click on
> the mobs in Warcraft 2 to the point that they started threatening
> you? The dwarves that loved blowing things up?

Aye, fond memories. Was quite amusing for first 5 min or so. So were them zombies in Yggdra who complain their noses are cold. How again are such cute thingies relevant to the original topic which was owerpoweredness of alchemy?

Anyhow. There was this other thread about there being nothing much to do after dinging 50, rr5, getting all the RA’s one needs, taking a few relics and a few hundred keeps.. So, there ya go - go spend a few months farming cash to get yourself some really good spellcrafted armor. Better than nothing.

> But, come on...get some life into the stuffy place.

With more wandering NPC’s? Surely you are joking.

Ottar

 

[Brannor McThife]

Originally posted by Ottar
> But, come on...get some life into the stuffy place.

With more wandering NPC’s? Surely you are joking.

Ottar

It's Monday, so I'll accept you may be grumpy too.

Fact is, what difference is there between night and day? Except for some mob changes and one or two quest NPCs? How many NPCs in Jordheim Ottar? Do they all stay at their stalls because there simply aren't any houses (with furniture)? Hell, Vasudheim has beds, etc, in those houses...what about having those dudes in the circle actually do something instead of just standing there?

Hey, if all you want is powerlevelling to L50, kill one type of mob for max cash, then buy uber armour/weapons/items and then run around in a zerg, then fine, by all means go for it. I would like some more environmental changes. And I miss going to new places.

Most people in Albion go into Lyonesse and come out L50, supposedly knowing everything about their realm. Most people in Midgard go into Malmohus and emerge L50, supposedly knowing everything about their realm.

As I've told lots of people before, it's not about getting to L50 and being uber. It's about enjoying the trip. If you want to take the autobahn, then go ahead, I'd prefer to take he country road and enjoy the scenery.

-G

 

[case-rigantis]

i don`t see what all this new stuff is going to add to the average player..

ok great the uber guilds will be able make their level 50`s more uber

what about the smaller guilds say 50 members and below? we can`t afford 10`s of P getting people to high enough skill to make these items and even if we could we`d never afford the ingredients

getting the items and actual crafting should be skill rather than money

all these new things in the game are aimed at the uber guilds and TBH it`s starting to piss me off

 

[Ottar]

> It's Monday, so I'll accept you may be grumpy too.

Actually, Im like this most of the time.

> what about having those dudes in the circle actually do something
> instead of just standing there?

What you so casually ask is pretty hard to achieve. Anything besides casually wandering around pre-set paths is not that easy to program into a computer game. There is a limit on how much money and processor power do them devs want to invest into NPC AI.

You want to liven up the place, you need to design the game so that people who play in it form active and merry societies, doing the livening up themselves. DAoC is not such a game. DAoC’s mother is expgrind of so called roleplaying games and it’s father is the fragfest of shooters. Player housing? It’s bloody irrelevant! How many empty houses in Jord, go pick any. Could use one with bindstone in Malmo, now that would be helpful. It’s a different mindset this game is favoring and its so deep in design it can’t be altered. Notice that the most community minded all-fun events, the hibernian lurikeen races are also.. a competition.

> And I miss going to new places.

You sure you have been everywhere? Ive been around and Im a bloody skald so I can get to twice the places in the same time.. Still there are several areas on the map where Ive never ever been so far. Miss going places? Who’s obstructing?

> As I've told lots of people before, it's not about getting to L50 and
> being uber.

The way RvR combat system works, being lvl 50 AND uber is pretty much a requirement if one intends to survive environment outside realmgates to much enjoy anything.

Ottar

 

[Brannor McThife]

Originally posted by Ottar
The way RvR combat system works, being lvl 50 AND uber is pretty much a requirement if one intends to survive environment outside realmgates to much enjoy anything.

Ottar

And that, is the reality of it. To do "well", you must be L50, and uber. Uber being RR5+, have oodles of cash and the best non-epic drops in the game (Dragon/legion).

All this comes from having lots of time. I foresee RvR becoming nothing more than hordes of people trying to amass tons of RP's to buy those RA's, and farming monsters A, B, C for the best cash so that they can buy the next uber item.

Those poor people who play for 1-3 hours a night, who try going into the frontiers, will die 1 yard outside of uber guard range. Their only hope would be to tag alone with a zerg. There is very little strategy in this game, it's just 3 hordes running around trying to overrun the others. Nothing much different from the days of Beta...

-G

 

[Whandall]

<thinks about starting a petition for a bg lvl 36-45 max rr4>

 

[old.Revz]

Originally posted by Brannor McThife
All this comes from having lots of time.

How much time /played do you have on your level 50 character out of interest?

 

[Brannor McThife]

Played... hmm... I think Glauthrong has around 26 days.

Then there's the other characters on the two accounts that I have in all three realms. Only reason I bought a second account was to explore Albion and play a minstrel and infiltrator.

What's the point of the question? To show that I have lots of time? Perhaps I do. I just chose to get to L50 rather slow, and I changed characters a few times along the way. Big G is around 5/6 months old, if that's a better indication.

<shrugs>
My last week (03/10) of subscription. Those who want a go at me, I'll try to be in Emain tonight hoping to find a personal glimmer of hope. Failing that, I'll be back when 1.52 arrives.

-G

 

[Slinker]

From what I read on the USA boards about spellcrafting etc , that 6 pieces of armour you mentioned would take upwards of 5 platinum to actually make for someone , can't see everyone running around in it too soon can you

 

[Keri]

Originally posted by the_smurflord
As far as I can see, you are all missing two important points.
Your epic armour ain't going to last for ever!
Most of the components to make the best items will be rare drops.

Long-term this will be the only way to replace them, and make the weapons you want. Drop hunts will still be there, but just with different targets.

Hey .. I have an idea for a new uberness contest! We already had the first to 50 .. the first to get 2 to 50 .. now who will be the first to have all his/her epic armour pieces disintegrate?

I'm looking forward to seeing that person post on here.

 

[old.Revz]

Not at all, the opposite in fact. You were saying that it took a lot of time to accomplish anything and I would refute that because the game is not hard in that respect. Gideon had 27 days /played on him when I cancelled my account. He was the only character I ever had (apart from two level 1 mules) and hit 50 at 17 days /played. There are people playing now with probably quadruple that time over all their characters (Coren was on over 50 days /played last time I asked, Soulfly probably has 3 level 50s by now etc.).

Everyone started from the same point. In fact if I remember rightly I actually started playing beta later than you Brannor so in that regard you have more experience with the game than me.

All that counts is what you make of your time (where else have I heard that? )

Contrary to what people like to think it doesn't take an immense amount of time to get anywhere. I think I prove that myself given that I retired the best equipped cleric on the server with over 100k RP and only 27 days /played on the account over my whole DAoC career. The skill involved in these games is not being a student and having lots of free time (I'm not, I have a full time job for instance) it is in things that aren't so easy to measure like leadership, drive, ambition and so forth. They quite easily get glossed over when you consider they can be replaced with "having a lot of time" but that doesn't mean you can't do it the other way as well.

 

[Kagato.]

I think you will find the Battle Grounds are were the people with only 1-3 hours a day to play hang out now, and they never really get a taste of real RvR, just keep making new characters.

But anyway, what concerns me more then the things mentioned here to numerous to repeat is more 'How will new players cope ? '

For those of us already been playing awhile, have a few RA's and reasonably close to 50 its not to bad, not as good as the long term 50ies with RA's to spare but we can cope, but the new players just starting out, of which there are few who arn't alts of existing characters, they don't stand a chance really. They havent got high level mains to give them cash, they can only rely on guild support, and they will be stomped on in RvR and never get enough RA's to keep up really, and if the popular drop/exp spots do become increasingly more baron, which they have already with DF now, it'll be harder for them to level too.

It'll get to the stage where all we will have is 2 sets of players, the 20-24 levels playing in thidranki and rerolling as they can't cope getting higher, and the level 40-50ies (60 % being 50ies) stomping around emain zerging. Or maybe im just being pessimistic as its monday

 

[Aeternus]

17 days plaid to get to level 50!?

Madness... it took me over 35 days.
But then again, I really did explore my realm and tried every single monster and moaned about every single tree getting in my cameras way... (well in OCC of course).

The thing is, there just a couple things on the list for all level 50 that will make this game more fun.

* patch 1.53, blocking/parry/evade finaly fixed, longer fights, more tactic. No more infs killing shield tanks with 4 hits (its just silly, I know im a elf, but 4damn hits (in some 10sec time) when im a powerhouse of defense... it takes a orange mob 5min to kill me if I stand still...). The rvr dungeon (with random item generation) is also in this patch right?

* spellcrafting, this will introduce a lot of good things for a variety of players, some of the nice stuff like getting procs on weapons (not only for season 50s now, im sure some lower levels would like a proc on a crafted weapon, they all moan about getting that crappy glimmer sword of sheeroe... even when its the slowest sword in the realm and has a damage that couldnt kill a badger)

* alchemy, healing potions! No more sitting down 5 minutes resting after killing a a hard yellow con... I can just use my potions! Wohoo! I didnt pay 10$ a month so I could sit down 33% of my playing time watching the clouds move....

* Shrouded Island, yummy graphics, better framerates, new races/classes.... new areas to explore.... yummy graphics...

About the everyone having uber crafted and spellcrafted armor... its a weewee expensive to make high quality armor I can say...
I will probably spend my money on getting my weapons and shields spellcrafted (hiquality shields are so cheap, must be because the highest one is lvl46.).

And then theres jewelery... yummy, getting those rings and stuff ive always wanted, instead of hunting for my belt in Bog of Cullen for another 7 days.... I will have my belt one day!!! BELT, must have Belt with 6%slash/thrust resist... my BeLt!!!

*runs away in madness screaming about siabra waterwalkers and black wraiths dropping endless amounts of druid items... yet no BELT!*

 

[Brannor McThife]

Very well said Kagato. I agree with just about everything you said (can't say everything, since I've just read Aeternus's post and can't remember all you said. )

Aeternus, how happy will you be when you eventually get your belt? I can imagine. It's like the Fate Stealer in Vanern for me (damn spiders). yes, you kill the same mobs over and over in item farming, but you then feel like you've accomplished something. Being able to craft the best items in the game take a lot of the enjoyment out of it for me. The best items should always be the hardest to get. Eventually, money won't be an issue. You can go sit in DF for a few hours and make a plat. at L50. Do that for a few days and you'll be able to buy all you want...yay...

If you take a step back, and look at the patches, so many of them have been aimed at RvR with the intent of making it better, but inevitably making it harder for noobs. I mean, a L46/47 infil with a few RA's could probably kill my L50. Give him vanish, IP, purge, and 50 thrust, and I'm dead. I'll just stand there with "/release" typed ready to press enter.

-G

 

[Danya]

Originally posted by Aeternus
17 days plaid to get to level 50!?

Madness... it took me over 35 days.

I might get flamed for this but oh well. 17 days isn't all that super-fast to 50. People have done it in under 10. I hear tell of someone on the US servers getting 50 and all epics done in 6 days played... Now that is powergaming.

 

[Kagato.]

The thing is, there just a couple things on the list for all level 50 that will make this game more fun.

Hmmmm yes, wonderful for level 50ies, superb for them, yay them, but what about everyone else struggling to get there still?

What about the ones just coming out of the 1st bg (no one bothers with 2nd and 3rd bg) and now facing the level treadmill to the 40 + levels, and that terrible terrible time in the 30ies (the time most tend to give up and reroll I think).

 

[kestral]

Originally posted by Brannor McThife

Most people in Albion go into Lyonesse and come out L50, supposedly knowing everything about their realm. Most people in Midgard go into Malmohus and emerge L50, supposedly knowing everything about their realm.

As I've told lots of people before, it's not about getting to L50 and being uber. It's about enjoying the trip. If you want to take the autobahn, then go ahead, I'd prefer to take he country road and enjoy the scenery.

-G

Wonderfully said Brannor, something an awful lot of people seem to be missing, instead spending hour after hour doing the same thing in order to gain experience, and then complaining bitterly about how boring it is.

 

[Aeternus]

Originally posted by Dannyn

I might get flamed for this but oh well. 17 days isn't all that super-fast to 50. People have done it in under 10. I hear tell of someone on the US servers getting 50 and all epics done in 6 days played... Now that is powergaming.

Yes but at least in my realm.. its nearly impossible to find a good fast xp group... (unless your in the big guilds maybe).

I soloed 3 levels after 40... probably why it took 35 days. 48-50 took me 2 real life days... had no idea you could powerlevel so fast killing some mobs. we got one lvl49 0,5 of a buble in less than 10min, insane... that would take me days to power solo oranges.

Kagato.: They are changing the treadmil from 40-45 in the following patches, as well as introducing high level tasks... it might be very slow still, but what would the game be if everyone got to lvl50 in a week?