Albion United - alliance chat

[Zag Barr]

Lots of people think we have to set some rules for our alliance chat – and I do too. We seem to get more and more “spam” lately.

I will start with my opinion, just to start the discussion.

Alliance chat should be used for RvR purposes only, and as brief as possible:

- Warn of enemy activity in our frontier
- Warn of large enemy activity anywhere
- Organise chat groups, for raids
- Organise RvR chat groups (like Emain)
- For certain occasions (relic raids, dragon raids) the alliance chat should be opened for battle talk. Everybody who is not on the raid, can just switch it off for that period of time, to avoid annoyance.

Be as brief and as precise as possible, which will shorten the conversation. The less people have to ask and reconfirm, the shorter the conversation will be.

In general, I don’t think our /as gets abused very often. What makes it annoying sometimes, is the discussions on it.

When somebody puts info on /as, at least 3 people will start arguing, wether it is regular use or not - and another 3 will make jokes – in no time you have dozens people chating on it.

If you don’t agree with the person, who used /as – just send him a personal message and don’t argue on the channel itself.

Please don’t use the alliance channel to produce yourself. Just think twice, before you put cool comments or jokes on the channel – most don’t think it’s funny.

Just think of alliance channel like a military command radio channel. Anything you would not say there, should not find it’s way into our /as.

Is that agreeable for all?

 

[Dalby]

hmmm it wasnt ment for emain...
thats what i heard... most of the time is there a chatgroup anyway

 

[Zag Barr]

Of course it is not meant to run all battle talk for Emain.

What I meant, and what I wrote, is organisation of chat groups.

If you start a chat group - or if you want into a chat group and you don't know who is running it, you could just quickly ask over /as.

We could also anounce our plans to take certain keeps, before we set off to do so, and involve alliance members early - not when we already got into trouble and are about to loose the keep again.

Would look like:

/as <guild> plans to take <keep> and defend it. pm me for cg invite, if you want to join into the action.

/as We should show some force in Emain tonite. I am running a cg. pm me for invite

/as a group lead by me just moved into emain. invite me to cg please

 

[--Eraser--]

i agree to zag...but still the key to run this chat in the way its intended to be is discipline :whip:

if all would keep the broadcasting in there this short and effective way like zag suggested, it would be ok for me.

 

[old.Odysseus]

I think the /as is working good except for a few minor slips every day.

The channel has potential to spam over 100 ppl trying to xp/quest/whatever, so use it sparingly.

It can only be used as an open battle-coordination channel in larger battles - not for the usual Emain gangbang RP-farming.

 

[Kcinimodus]

I totally agree with Zag on this one. Don't have anything to add atm.

 

[Khalen]

Zag

 

[Talifer]

Originally posted by old.Zag Barr

...
Alliance chat should be used for RvR purposes only, and as brief as possible:

- Warn of enemy activity in our frontier
- Warn of large enemy activity anywhere
- Organise chat groups, for raids
- Organise RvR chat groups (like Emain)
- For certain occasions (relic raids, dragon raids) the alliance chat should be opened for battle talk. Everybody who is not on the raid, can just switch it off for that period of time, to avoid annoyance.

...

Is that agreeable for all?

We need to be careful here, not everyone reads these boards.

The original thread that started this alliance was quite clear about it's purpose (Can't find it now did it get too old?) and that was an early warning system to defend our relics. if we want to change this we need to make sure everyone already in the alliance agrees.

- Warn of enemy activity in our frontier
- Warn of large enemy activity anywhere
- For certain occasions (relic raids, dragon raids) the alliance chat should be opened for battle talk. Everybody who is not on the raid, can just switch it off for that period of time, to avoid annoyance.

I think these reasons for using alliance are fine, but should be tightly controlled.

- Organise chat groups, for raids
- Organise RvR chat groups (like Emain)

I don't think these two should be on the alliance channel at all. I don't want to here "Is there a cg in emain" every 2 minutes.
Anyone who has formed a cg in emain should NOT be anon, this would allow anyone in emain (or where ever) to do a who and find out about any chat group by using tells.

At the moment I think the alliance channel is coming close to being switched off by a fair few people (I know people who have already done this) because of the spam. When a keep gets claimed I don't want 10 lines of "gratz" scrolling up my screen. I don't want Player A whinging at Player B because "I was told to shut up when I said that" etc... If I can't see what my group is saying while xping then the alliance channel has failed.

I don't think we have managed to implement the ground rules of the alliance channel yet, I think we should have a good crasp on this before we try and expand it's function.

Talifer

 

[c0ngo]

Ody and Zag have it about right I think.

There are some people that seem to argue over /as and the rest of us really don't need to hear it.

The spam isn't 'that' bad though cause most people seem to use it for what it's intended for.

 

[Zag Barr]

The reason I posted this, was some ideas/complaints in the channel. One wants to expand it's use, the next wants to deminish it - and in general there was a cryout for more explicit rules.

I also agree, it wasn't missused a lot. The only thing that makes it annoying from time to time, is the urge to spam it, whenever someone makes the first post.

Single line requests, calls for help and information, doesn't hurt tho. Someone recently said: "What is the use of an alliance, if we can't call for help?" This is very true. Part of the idea behind this alliance is to coordinate RvR efforts, since one guild alone can not stand up to our enemys. Nobody wants more spam in the chanel, but let us try to reduce the spam - and still make more use of the chanel.

About switching it off: It's not a crime to switch off alliance chat. If you are in Lyonesse leveling and can't be convinced to go RvR no matter what, there is no reason to listen to it. One person in each allied guild however should keep it open, so he can warn his guildmates over guild chat, in case of a relic attack.

 

[old.Rio Ferdinand]

Please could someone tell me what are the requirements for joining Albion Utd.

We have 5 lvl 40 + chars in our guild (we are small, but perfectly formed!) atm and we would like to join alliance chat.

Cheers all.

 

[Talifer]

Originally posted by old.Zag Barr

Single line requests, calls for help and information, doesn't hurt tho. Someone recently said: "What is the use of an alliance, if we can't call for help?" This is very true. Part of the idea behind this alliance is to coordinate RvR efforts, since one guild alone can not stand up to our enemys. Nobody wants more spam in the chanel, but let us try to reduce the spam - and still make more use of the chanel.

There is obviously some misunderstanding about what the alliance channel was set up for, and this is what is causing the spamming at present. It was my understanding, from the original posts, that the alliance channel was to be used for the purpose of warning Albion of a relic attack. It was the ability to get our relic keeps defended on mass as fast as possible. With the possible exception of also informing Albion of a relic attempt by ourselves.

Basically the channel allows us to get as many people as possible to one location.

About switching it off: It's not a crime to switch off alliance chat. If you are in Lyonesse leveling and can't be convinced to go RvR no matter what, there is no reason to listen to it. One person in each allied guild however should keep it open, so he can warn his guildmates over guild chat, in case of a relic attack.

When people start to switch alliance channel off it defeats the original intention of the channel, which was basically broadcast warnings. I gave a possible alternative to a single alliance channel in the original debate, but multiple channels (As the above would be alliance->guild) was considered too slow for this broadcast purpose and is also prone to collapse if certain people aren't logged on.

I do believe we need to coordinate attacks as well as defences, but I don't think a single alliance channel will acheive this very well, I think it requires a chain of command with multiple layers of communication.

The current alliance channel is suppose to be leaderless, this is fine for defending, as it's intention was. But when we want to attack we require leaders in whatever shape or form, someone (or preferable multiple people when we are talking about multi pronged attacks) has to give orders at some point.

Talifer

 

[Javai]

A couple of thoughts directed at noone in particular:

1. Part of the trouble is that the Alliance has no leader as such, so we were all given rules when we joined but there is noone able to enforce those rules, the only way they can be enforced is by guild leaders taking responsibility for the spam generated by their guild members and either removing rights for that person or face the guild being removed for the alliance. Neither of these would be in the spirit of an Albionwide alliance with no hierarchy and I wouldn't actually want to see eitehr implemented (though some GM's could warn their members from time to time if there is excessive spamming, maybe even take away alliance chat for a day or two as a punishment for excessive spamming?, but this would have to be a guild based decision and can't be enforced by the alliance)

2. The original purpose of the Alliance was to my understanding to protect relics and enable us to get as many people as possible in one place when needed, its now beginning to evolve as people see the potential for using it (for example calling for help to defend a keep). These things seem reasonable use of the Alliance but weren't part of the orginal idea and so the confusion arises.

So I guess in short tehre are perhaps two issues - do leaderless alliances work? And do we nede something like an Alliance constitution which makes clear what Alliance chat is to be used for and the sanction to be taken if abused?

 

[old.Odysseus]

Javai and Talifer have some points.

The /as will be spammed with 'invite me to emain cg' if we open up for that use.

And as Javai says, its the responsibility of every GM to control his ppl and talk some sense into them when they go overboard - no need to get angry, just /tell them.

Im very positive about this /as, as it works well and there is no aggro in the channel. Lets keep it that way.

 

[Zag Barr]

I am very well aware of the original intentions of this alliance, since this is was my idea, on how to get around personality issues and form a new one quickly, after our old one colapsed so surprisingly fast, due to a few peoples issues.

Reading your posts above, most of us are pretty happy about the alliance so far and it has proven itself in defensive situations.

So the question is now: Do we want to take it further? And if yes, how?

I would be very carefull to mix this issue with a leader issue. This is where things get dangerous and personal again. Of course you do need a leader for every bigger scale agressive move - but as was said initially: Leaders will grow - and already do grow. Any of these people can organise and lead an event, and most others will gladly join in.

I think we should make a ingame chat group with all guild leaders currently in the alliance and talk about it. I will try to organise this in the next few days.

 

[Zag Barr]

@ Rio Ferdinand

Currently we have 17 guilds in the alliance.

There was rumour, that you could only join up to 20 guilds into one alliance - which has yet to be proven, since no one could provide official info.

There is some guilds allready waiting to be joined, so right now we have to wait until we reach the magic border of 20 and see, if we can get more in or not.

This should happen in the next few days.

I will keep you updated here.

 

[old.Rio Ferdinand]

ok thx

 

[Talifer]

I think the alliance channel was working very nicely as the following snipit from my logs demonstrates

[Alliance] Player A: "EXCAL SIEGED"
<snip>
[Alliance] Player B: "u wont believe how many high lvls appeared at bind stones as soon as you said excalibu r under seige"

This works very well, our relics are nice and safe if anyone is about. But when this happens

People start to turn alliance off and you no longer get the fast response which this channel sort to achieve.

I don't mind whether you use the channel for defense or attack, but really we should only hear information on it, there should never be a discussion.

Talifer

 

[old.Odysseus]

It is so tempting to use the /as as a normal chat that u can spam like hell and ditch ppl - generally having fun and socializing.

We must all excecise restraint. Last thing we want is ppl turning off alliance chat.

 

[deadparrot]

Originally posted by Talifer
I think the alliance channel was working very nicely as the following snipit from my logs demonstrates

[Alliance] Player A: "EXCAL SIEGED"
<snip>
[Alliance] Player B: "u wont believe how many high lvls appeared at bind stones as soon as you said excalibu r under seige"

.......

I don't mind whether you use the channel for defense or attack, but really we should only hear information on it, there should never be a discussion.

Talifer

That was a one off event Talifer, the server had huge lag, the xp group i was in all died along with others groups around lyo.
People wanted to know what was going on.

I don't see any problem with this /as use, the game was unplayable at that time.

 

[Talifer]

That particular event was a one off, but I play every evening and every evening something similar happens, someone start talking and everyone joins in. It's fine for an hour or so then someone starts talking and the channel gets spammed, then it might die down for an hour then start up again.

Want another example?
"
Alliance] Someone: "arf"
[Alliance] Someone: "they still got their army together probably"
[Alliance] Someone: "shall the ping-pong beggine"
[Alliance] Someone: "the mid pk in hadrians wall seems fine... (e.g. no mids)"
[Party] *
[Alliance] Someone: "Is there a mid pk in mid?"
Someone yells, *
[Alliance] Someone: "no"
[Party] *
[Alliance] Someone: "nopez "
[Alliance] Someone: "only a border keep "
[Party] *
[Party] *
[Party] *
[Party] *
[Party] *
Someone yells, *
Someone yells, *
Someone says, *
[Alliance] Someone: "if u in mid come to notmoore large force of mids at glenlock"
[Alliance] Someone: "moving"
[Alliance] Someone: "ok"
Someone says, *
[Alliance] Someone: "illuminati allready at nottmoor"
Someone says, *
Someone says, *
Someone says, *
Someone says, *
[Alliance] Someone: "mids inc to notmoore now"
[Alliance] Someone: "look finster"
[Alliance] Someone: "who wants his head?"
[Alliance] Someone: "nice "
[Alliance] Someone: "really?"
[Alliance] Someone: "kill kill kill"
[Alliance] Someone: "GANK HIM!"
[Alliance] Someone: "don't use as please for that"
[Alliance] Someone: "sorry for as use but he ganked a lvl 26 "
[Alliance] Someone: "they are here"
[Alliance] Someone: "W side of keep"
[Party] *
Sall Fadri speaks to Strondor
[Party] *
[Party] *
[Party] *
[Party] *
[Party] *
Someone says, *
Someone says, *
Someone says, *
[Party] *
[Party] *
[Party] *
[Party] *
Someone says, *
Someone says, *
[Party] *
Someone says, *
Someone says, *
Someone says, *
[Party] *
[Party] *
Someone says, *
Someone says, *
[Party] *
Someone says, *
[Party] *
Someone says, *
Someone says, *
[Alliance] Someone: "where's the hibs?"
[Alliance] Someone: "on the road from our wall towards the crossing"
[Alliance] Someone: "snow shoe bandit camp"
[Alliance] Someone: "they were doing duels"
Someone says, *
[Alliance] Someone: "well they just ganked us for no reason then they attacked first"
[Alliance] Someone: "5 level 49+'s"
[Alliance] Someone: "ok"
Someone says, *
Someone says, *
Someone says, *
Someone says, *
Someone says, *
[Party] *
Someone says, *
[Alliance] Someone: "just outside our wall"
Someone says, *
[Party] *
Someone says, *
Master Someone says, *
[Alliance] Someone: "they heading back towards bandits"
[Alliance] Someone: "there at bandit camp"
[Alliance] Someone: "anonymousplayer must be pissed by the mid tactic we used vs him"
"

What I didn't get in that screenshot is that above what I have captured there, someone informs everyone that Beno is under attack, after the spam the same persons says "Is anyone going to help defend Beno?" to which someone replies "Beno is under attack??????". All the important information gets lost.

I am using this channel as intended, to listen for attacks on our relics. If we want the fast response to enemy invasion this is a great way to get it. But we have to choose, this channel cannot be used for invasion alerts AND emain chat. I'm not bothered which it gets used for, but we have to agree on one or the other. If it's for alerting then everyone should have alliance open ready for the call to arms. If it's going to be used for every keep raid, every emain activity then people xping can safely turn it off until the decide to go to emain.

There is a lot of talking on alliance involving keep raids, "Mids inside about 10", "Attack from the south" etc... But what happens when we are attacking two keeps at once? This information becomes very confused.

So which is it? Early warning system or RvR chat?

Talifer

 

[Khalen]

Ehm I recognize the log as a very old one...

And yes we told dozens of times to people about not spamming the AS but sometimes some people have a hard time remembering that (maybe also because some guilds have given all members access to it..)

 

[Javai]

It goes back to my points about the (possible) need for sanctions for persistent Alliance Chat abuse.

Sure last night was a one off situation with the lag - during which time a warning about Beno being under atack was missed and Beno subsequently fell. The trouble is that almost everytime someone can argue its a one off occurrence and if those perceived to be the leaders do it then everyone else will too.

Perhaps its time for someone to restate the purposes of the alliance then the guilds in it can decide if those purposes are being served and are worth the spam.

 

[Zag Barr]

I will start a chat group tonite, with all guild leaders in the alliance or (if the leaders are not online) their right hands. We have lots of things to discuss:

- Use of /as
- Communacations officers to the other big alliance
- Which guilds will fill the last three spots

I will try to invite starting at 19:00 CET or 18:00 GMT - let's settle this quickly and get on going.

 

[Zag Barr]

The chat group discussion has been postponed, due to lack of online players yesterday - and me being sick

It'S now going to be Sunday, 7'th of July at 19:00 GMT (or 20:00 CET).

Please try to be there . Thx.

 

[Zag Barr]

We had (most) all GM's of our allied guilds in a chatgroup and did discuss the use of /as.

The general opinion was, that hardly anyone is annoyed by /as - with the exception, when big discussions are held on it.

So this is what we agreed upon:

- The alliance channel shall never be used to talk, discuss, comment (or anything like that) - not even dragon drops

- It is only meant to relay information that is linked to RvR

- be as brief and exact as possible, and don't end your sentence with a question mark.

- If any enemy action needs a reaction from our side - the goal is to establish a chatgroup as fast as possible. So if you can, please include chatgroupleader right away. E.g.
/as need help defending <keep>, cg leader is <name>

- No Emain battle talk - only with the goal to establish chat groups. Please keep that as low as possible. Don't constantly ask on the channel, who is running the Emain chat group. There is other ways to find out.

- If you are planning an aggressive RvR move, you are also free to use the channel to announce it - again, please include chatgroupleader right away.

- Exception of the channel restrictions are alliance events - like dragon raids, relic raids and in case of a major defence situations (our relics being threatened). The channel can then be used for battle talk - the goal however should be, to address one leader as fast as possible, so we don't end up in endless discussions about what to do.


In general it is impossible to write down each example for correct channel use, as it is impossible to write down every example for possible abuse. Just use your common sense.

To sum it all up: Please don't start any kind of conversations or arguments on the channel. If you want to talk about something, please offer a chatgroup or post it on BW.

If you think, someone abused /as - don't tell him so on the channel. Do it by /send - or if the person is in your guild, tell him over a guildchannel.

The allied guilds are responsible for their members and should take away certain peoples /as rights, if they frequently abuse the channel.

Furthermore should all allied guilds rethink again, who of their members is allowed to hear and/or send on the channel. In a defensive situation it is good to have as many listeners as possible, for offensive moves (like relic raids) a certain secrecy is is wanted. Every guild has to find it’s own way to balance out these interests. We from GoL for example allow only trusted officers and high level scouts to speak on the channel – and only 40+ players are able to hear it.

 

[old.Odysseus]

Agreed

(wtf i aint GM anymore, why should i care )

 

[Talifer]

I've been offering debate on this thread to get a resolution and I believe this has now been done.

Well done the alliance, and thanks Zag for the very clear and informative post.

Talifer

 

[leab]

Wise comments

Frist of all let me explain im Sergon Cadwallon from Gol



Last sunday night I reported Hib near CS

As i thought i used /as as it was meant to be used

I got a reply from a alliance member [name can not remmber]
" So what"

I did use /as chat them to explain what /as chat was meant for

I was not being argumentive as some ppls may think i was pointing out a fact and a basic rule .

Please tell me if i was in the wrong

If i was in the Wrong i will ask My Guild master to demote me so i cant use /as chat anymore.

I will admit that Today Zag used /as chat like i did for the right reason and i did use /as chat for a wise comment . I knew it was wrong but i needed Zag to know how it feels when u do the right thing and get a wise comment for your troubles.

I apologise to Zag no offence by the comment . But if im going to get called argumentive for pointing a fact out and a basic rule that every member that can use /as chat should know . Then maybe im in the wrong realm

 

[Zag Barr]

Nobody will demote you Sergon - that's to start with. I just /send to you, to stop argueing on the channel. It wasn't personal and I did that to lots of people already, who spamed the chanel. None o them got demoted, so why would you.

All i Wanted to explain - and I am happy to make that even more clear here: After the "So what?" comment, you should have just let it go. The person putting that on the chanel shouldn't have been a wise ass. But it's even worse, if u start pointing out, why the person was a wise ass and why you were right - and so on. In no time u have lengthly discussion about a short comment - and the rest of us don't want to listen to it.

Bottom line is: Next time use /tells or guildchanel to make your point and dont give anyone the opportunity to start a discussion on the allince channel.