Albion best setup 2nd capter !!!

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hotrat

Guest
I wish all realms had GP :) such a nice RA, mostly as it allows classes without determination to go to rvr. Trouble is other RA's like TWF and BaoD are very nasty to alb/mid caster groups. Would love to see hibs compete vs TWF once they are all in their pbae box :)
 
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ab_fluid

Guest
Originally posted by hotrat
I wish all realms had GP :) such a nice RA, mostly as it allows classes without determination to go to rvr. Trouble is other RA's like TWF and BaoD are very nasty to alb/mid caster groups. Would love to see hibs compete vs TWF once they are all in their pbae box :)
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we'd buy that weird RA called moc ^^
 
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ab_fluid

Guest
Originally posted by Puppetmistress
That was WITHOUT grouppurge use.

With grouppurge I would say I react within 300 ms with the grouppurge on my druid.

And we both know Grouppurge is an RA which is very convenient and is pretty much always up when you really need it.

That is if your casters are high RR enough to afford personal purge too.

Sorry but relying on the PB-instamezz of a cleric with range 200 is silly. Half of the enemy wont be even mezzed if you time it cautious because the box isn't entirely setup to 1 spot in that time (=spreadout).

Sorry but it wont work , its radius is pathetic, as is the PB-falloff.

An once a Hib PB-group knows your strategy it will just pop BAOD before boxing up.

Its funny how Dom describes a scenario where the enemy uses no RA's. Hell yeah then you can win if all works according to plan. Problem is enemy uses RA's, some people resist mezz, some dont walk in the box that fast, etc etc etc.
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My point still stands if you are slow wnogh to be in a pbaoe box for 2-3 casts off each pb'er you deserve to die, the pbaoe mezz might not be a great tool for mezzing in this situation but it does interupt everyone in the box giving you time to run away and get some range/start chain ae spamming the box
 
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Garbannoch Nox

Guest
Originally posted by hotrat
I wish all realms had GP :) such a nice RA, mostly as it allows classes without determination to go to rvr. Trouble is other RA's like TWF and BaoD are very nasty to alb/mid caster groups. Would love to see hibs compete vs TWF once they are all in their pbae box :)
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TWF is nice no doubt (especially against alb caster zerg) but don't forget what mids have to interrupt: 3 * aoe lull in each group, shaman (who's only purpse is to interrupt, aoe disease, pbaoe disease, aoe root). I have to admit that albs have it harder - once the sorc is dead (which is usually no problem) you won't have to face any more aoe interrupts.

Anyway - I cannot comment on the various suggestions since I am not familiar with every alb spec line but one thing is for sure: theurgists are grossly underrated. A well-played theurgist who uses his range and sets earth pets on support/mages quickly is a battle winner (especially against tank groups who need some time to melee down the pets on their healers).
 
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hotrat

Guest
Originally posted by ab_fluid
we'd buy that weird RA called moc ^^
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Well unless you all MoC your gonna have a hard time protecting the one who has moc'd cus he should be immediately slammed and killed :) By the time you have ran out of the TWF to heal them its gonna be too late, unless you got some instant heals ready.

Yep theurg is good, Strondor is on holiday atm but its a pleasure to group with him, especially as a sorc cus they make a nice secondary cc class, combined with minstrel that gives backup mezz and root.
Reavers are also very nice vs hib pbae, I would probably take a reaver over a theurg if I knew I was fighting a hib pbae group, so long as they had purge ready :)
 
O

old.Leel

Guest
Hib tank group works, we're doing it on hib pryd atm. Beating savage groups even. Can't beat Everlast or to a lesser extent Dogma though. But the others we have met go down. The main problem with fotm savage groups is three healers. We use ae diseasee and ae str/con debuff from mana eld and nature druid roots, it works like a charm, and mana eld got snare dd as well. Bm's got prevent flight and snow shower that is rear style that snares. Our group actually worked best that day when my mana eld was the only caster in the group. Then we also had reg/nurture druid, reg/nature druid and warden and bard and 1 hybrid hero and 2 bm's. Oh, and bm's got that nice side positional stun as well, ice storm, and they got a third in that chain at 50 celtic dual as well that rocks.
 
B

belth

Guest
Originally posted by Jergiot
edit: and whats wrong with hib melee grps?
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Nothing per sé, but in Albs "perfect" tank group you got 2xBoF and Mids, well...

Hib tank group is just lacking somewhat.
 
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old.Sepiritz

Guest
A cleric should be as far away from the box as humanly possible. :)
As for interrupt, what about sorc using ae amnesia against mocing boxes of exploding luris?
We dont get it served on a insta-platter like bards but our sorcerers still have it.
Though on the other hand the biggest problem with enchanters, imo, is they can debuff, stun, nuke and kill any supportchars at the very start of the fight... But thats beside the point.

Also, why bother with shield mercs, couldnt reavers do a grand job in that role? They are only 1h but they do have nice shouts and dmg add that can do the extra bit of dmg without having to switch anything.
 
D

Divinia

Guest
Originally posted by Dom

Way of play vs Hibernia : ( will play the example vs pbaoe grp , because melee hib grp is just the worse joke i have heard ).
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okey mistaar why cant i spam gratz on alliance to aliorm when he aint in alliance at all, cus he is one good chanter and deserves a shitload of gratz on the alliance he cant see.
 
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Rg.Roller

Guest
Originally posted by Garbannoch Nox
TWF is nice no doubt (especially against alb caster zerg) but don't forget what mids have to interrupt: 3 * aoe lull in each group, shaman (who's only purpse is to interrupt, aoe disease, pbaoe disease, aoe root). I have to admit that albs have it harder - once the sorc is dead (which is usually no problem) you won't have to face any more aoe interrupts.

Anyway - I cannot comment on the various suggestions since I am not familiar with every alb spec line but one thing is for sure: theurgists are grossly underrated. A well-played theurgist who uses his range and sets earth pets on support/mages quickly is a battle winner (especially against tank groups who need some time to melee down the pets on their healers).
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Hibs have the fleet pets to interupt too, dont think thats been addressed in this thread so far (although i havent read it all). A theurg is a nice class but your implying here that he can get to "range" which isnt likely, is it? he would be priority number #2 in the ma chuu chuu train, he wont live long enough to pet spam after the insta stun/mezz/slam or whatever. Only time therg gets to show of his skillz is usually waiting at an mg ontop of walls or adding antoher grps fight.

At the moment the hibby caster grp setup is a tough one for even the most fotm mid grp all that Gp and pets, albs need some passive skill lub in general.
 
M

mson

Guest
Originally posted by old.Leel
Hib tank group works, we're doing it on hib pryd atm. Beating savage groups even. Can't beat Everlast or to a lesser extent Dogma though. But the others we have met go down. The main problem with fotm savage groups is three healers. We use ae diseasee and ae str/con debuff from mana eld and nature druid roots, it works like a charm, and mana eld got snare dd as well. Bm's got prevent flight and snow shower that is rear style that snares. Our group actually worked best that day when my mana eld was the only caster in the group. Then we also had reg/nurture druid, reg/nature druid and warden and bard and 1 hybrid hero and 2 bm's. Oh, and bm's got that nice side positional stun as well, ice storm, and they got a third in that chain at 50 celtic dual as well that rocks.
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hmm have i seen a vid with this, sounds like..... AH yes it is:

http://baf.mine.nu/movies/BaF/Baf_Book_Of_Luv_Chapter_2.avi

:p
 
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Sharp Thing

Guest
Originally posted by Dom
8) Sharp

a) gimp cleric , no good dmg , asd goes to be used for the thing is supposed to be. no to interrupt---- anyways i prefer to dont asnwer. since the point you dont know about you are talking, gimp cleric---nice joke...
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yes the cleric is gimped. his stun wont improve with the higher spec, he can do some dd to interupt wich he wont get to do since the 2clerics should be first targetted, and you can stil cast lul/dps debuff/pet on him etc. when was the last time you used a aedd to interupt healers btw? :sleeping: oh and very funny mentioning the 30sec 200radius pb mez

the mercs do lose good dmg. they do not lose "just" 5% dmg, they lose each offhand swing, all their dw styles etc. plus with such low dw spec they miss out on 2 good styles. and like already mentioned, switching shield to weap is not done by qbs, you have to manually drag it wich does take time.

and you do know using asd on tanks actually increases their dmg?

you think you know it all but actually you know fuck all.
 
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Dom

Guest
1) sharpo , i know everything about the i am talking... if you read the post well... you will read i told str/con debuff in genereal, and dex/quick and asd for fast tanks bassed on quicknes and dex. Plz sharpo read well----- and plz dont try to piss me about saying things like you think know all... etc, becaus ei have enough xp in game, for to read this stupid from you.


2nd thing--- my xp for the mercs spec. It comes from when i used Tomatera's bm--- if you dont believe just log in. And lets check the dmg. I dont mind to waste 4-5 skills respec stones--- just to show you.


And lol sharpo... " and you do know using asd on tanks actually increase their dmg ?" k.. i am talking about savages who are dmg based in dex,quick and fast time...asd affects bad to me on tanks based on str and long time to swim.... plz Sharpo if you dont know about this. Dont start argue with me for nothing.
 
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Dom

Guest
Oops soz.i forget the cleric point... Why is he is gimped ? if you have one enhan cleric... why do you need 2nd one ? bah... i dont know why do i discuss. The logic stuff ,sometime the people doesnt undertand it.

And ofc i dont interrupt healers with aoe.. ( probably i should ) , but.. i am doing another things more important, because this works in the grps i play... it is being by pets, warden,my disease when i have time, and bard's lul.
 
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old.Leel

Guest
Lol, Mson, that's a nice vid:) On paper, hib tank groups may not look that good, but they work:) Extremely well too:)
 
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Ialkarn

Guest
Originally posted by Sharp Thing

and you do know using asd on tanks actually increases their dmg?
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It does yes,but using it against a slow 2h tank whit no quickness actually give you good chances to heal some btw each swing,even better if you are guarded,but probably I wouldn't use it against a dual wielder.
 
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Ialkarn

Guest
About the alb group thing:

On my opinion 2 tanks is not enought,and the theurg damage add/haste dosen't supply the lack of a third tank in offence.
You really want a theurg (ice or air) you need to drop your sorcerer,you ll suffer a bit against pbaoe groups,but you gonna boost the damage output and the interrupting against mid groups (per spamm rulez),the pbt is a minor add really.

I think in albion you don't have many choices

2 clerics
1 minstrell
1 shield paladin
3 determination tanks (3 mercs,1 offensive armsman/2 mercs preferibly)

The only slot where you can do experiments is the CC one

You can get a sorc (best aoemezz range/mezz duration,aoe interrupt,mezz reduction,)

an air theurg (decent aoe mezz,pet spamm,damage add/haste)

ice theurg (good aoe root ,see above)

reaver (pbaoe interrupt,25% damage increase for all the whole group,slammer in offence)

3 cleric (bof on 10 min timer,great defences,aoe interrupt option if he got a little smite)

Someone gonna jell:no aoe mezz no chances to survive..well my personal experience in RvR says you can't mezz a good group for more than a few seconds,and a sorc/theurg is often the first thing to hit the floor in both groups.
And yes you can play and win top groups whit no aoe mezz even more than 1fg x time whit bof on,ofc you require more than the standard alb mincer (a lvl 45 merc whit no left hand and no tank ras).

A good mincer is half your group.
 
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Sharp Thing

Guest
Originally posted by Dom
1) sharpo , i know everything about the i am talking... if you read the post well... you will read i told str/con debuff in genereal, and dex/quick and asd for fast tanks bassed on quicknes and dex. Plz sharpo read well----- and plz dont try to piss me about saying things like you think know all... etc, becaus ei have enough xp in game, for to read this stupid from you.


2nd thing--- my xp for the mercs spec. It comes from when i used Tomatera's bm--- if you dont believe just log in. And lets check the dmg. I dont mind to waste 4-5 skills respec stones--- just to show you.


And lol sharpo... " and you do know using asd on tanks actually increase their dmg ?" k.. i am talking about savages who are dmg based in dex,quick and fast time...asd affects bad to me on tanks based on str and long time to swim.... plz Sharpo if you dont know about this. Dont start argue with me for nothing.
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then you should know the sorc wont debuff enough for the theur to do capped dmg like you said. then you should know hth savages will stil cap with their haste (celerity and selfbuffs) even if you debuff their quickness. then you should know mercs lose allot of dmg when specing lower dw, unlike a bm who loses 2 decent styles as to 2very good styles for a merc and switching shield drops your dmg bigtime. why ened more then 1 guarder anyway? if its a good grp they all assist on the same target, if its a bad one you should have no problems winning anyway.

you're comeback on asd i didnt understand, i know you are spanish but atleast try not to rape english like you do :>

yeah sure you have no need for 2 buffing clerics, but smite clerics still remain gimped, they have a small short ranged ae dd wich "can" be sued for interupting but i much rather have my cleric/druid healing, especially when you only got 2healers as to 4in a hib/mid grp

and yes you have some experience in game, most of it got you wrong info though.
 
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Puppetmistress

Guest
Dom, please believe me you can't switch between dualwielding and S/S on quickbar.

About the 5% you said:

Check out the screenshots of McPain (Magmatic his merc) and see his offhand swing (which you loose out):


http://brethren.onlinecombat.com/screenshots.aspx?picture=706&pw=bqcq72krxe
Amethyst:
Mainhand : 174 dmg
Offhand: 79 dmg
Total: 253 (without offhand: 174 = you hit for 68% with 1 hand)

http://brethren.onlinecombat.com/screenshots.aspx?picture=705&pw=tt3atijv58
Reflection:
Mainhand: 115 dmg
Offhand: 44 dmg
Total: 159 (without offhand: 115 = you hit for 72% with 1 hand)

More screenshots:
http://brethren.onlinecombat.com/screenshots.aspx?picture=708&pw=nx8adh4p8h

http://brethren.onlinecombat.com/screenshots.aspx?picture=991&pw=l2d3hjqdc4

etc etc.

As you see you loose out alot more then 5%, more like 30% AND you loose out 2 good DW-styles (hypnotic darkness good in 1 on 1 and Dual Shadows)

What you gain:
Slam - very good
Guard with 42 shield and medium shield. Decent but medium-shield is not 'great' for guarding
RSI for swapping shield for weapon in inventory

Now I dont know what piece of work that blademaster is, but

5% less damage is bollocks
S/S switch for DW/CD is impossible atm.
 
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Puppetmistress

Guest
Originally posted by Sharp Thing

you're comeback on asd i didnt understand, i know you are spanish but atleast try not to rape english like you do :>
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I THINK (not sure) Dom means that a savage his damage is based on 'damage over time' and 'lucky quads'.

ASD'ed savages hit slower (harder) thus resulting in lower damage-over-time and less chances on quads in a certain amount of time.

Both are true, to some extent. But ASD'ing a savage will, in practice, dont do much. Capped swing-speed with a mild ASD will still result in FAST swinging. Just not as fast as they do know. It doesn't even negotiate their haste for instance (-16% haste on lvl 37 ASD versus a 40% haste).

It might negate a medium range Celerity. WOW. Its not that savages need Celerity to kill fast :/
 
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Pin

Guest
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Arnor

Guest
Originally posted by Pin
Before I clicked, I thought that was unbuffed damage :(
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wanna try arnor? its about that lvl im at :eek:


but it's all gravy, I still rock! :p


On average I'd say I hit for 150-250 dmg with mainhand, offhand misses alot (read 90% durability on main, 99% durability on offhand)


this ofc is on normal targets (no ap, sb,bof)


Only thing zerkers need is shield spec, increased bleeds and flurry. Then we are complete imo.
 
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Puppetmistress

Guest
Originally posted by Pin
Before I clicked, I thought that was unbuffed damage :(
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Not my merc, so I dont know weaponspeed of the weapons used during those screenshots.

Anyhow wasn't looking at the raw-damage etc but more at the ratio main- versus offhand.

No matter if damage is high or low, it prooves perfectly that offhand doesnt add 5% but (alot) more :)
 
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Puppetmistress

Guest
Originally posted by Pin
You should try real damage-dealers imo...

http://www.btinternet.com/~challand/Wuming_Crit_Debuff.jpg

(btw, I love Wild Arcana :D)
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Levithian rocks due to the proc doing pretty insane damage. Also dont forget its a level 50 positional compared to the Merc using his any-amy :)

I hit with my friar a wiz in a duel for 707 on boon (this was with a crit btw) and that is with 243 quickness :p
 
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Pin

Guest
Originally posted by Puppetmistress
No matter if damage is high or low, it prooves perfectly that offhand doesnt add 5% but (alot) more :)
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Yes, the offhand adds a lot more, but dropping to 39DW doesn't mean you lose 30% of your damage. It means you lose 30% of your damage 5% of the time, or 1.5% total.

Actually, it's more like 2.5% total as you lose some effective haste, and sometimes swings aren't styled - but anyway, you don't lose anything like 30%.


What you do lose is 2 styles:

HD chains off a parry-reactionary and has a long stun - nice in 1v1/duels, but dubious group RvR use.
DS is front positional with nice damage and high bleed - again great in 1v1/duels, but questionable for group RvR.
 
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Dom

Guest
Sharpooooooooooo grrrrrr...

About this of... sorc wont debuff enough for the caby to reache cap..

1) you need skilled sorcer...

2)i know he wont debuff all the time, because he has to do another things.But the theur will do at least 400 dmg if it's debuffed per 1.5 . Imo this is good dmg.


And about this about the INFO. log in i would show who has reason.

PS: lets no discuss more crap things...
 
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Sharp Thing

Guest
Originally posted by Dom
Sharpooooooooooo grrrrrr...

About this of... sorc wont debuff enough for the caby to reache cap..

1) you need skilled sorcer...
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ok please tell me exactly how the sorcer has to press his debuff to make it debuff 62% instead of 38 and let the theur do decent dmg, i beg you, tell me how!
 
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