Albion and Hibernia masters of the Resist.

[thorungla]

Tried to make a somewhat antagonistic subject line to get peoples thoughts. What in your opinion makes your enemy so much tougher to kill and worthy of whining about? Try to keep this to real rvr be it group vs group (as mythic intended) or zerg vs zerg if you absolutely must. I'd rather leave out 1v1 since it just doesnt exist in any amount of relevance except maybe on the almost dead it appears pvp servers. But feel free to flame and whine however ya want.

For me it is the disparity between resists in the realms. Sure we all have 'access' to the same resist spells, well not quite but almost but the spec lines they appear in leave Midgard at the bottom of heap for resists.


ALBION:

Clerics provide Body/Spirit/Energy resists. Their alternative to speccing enhancement I would expect is the Smite line and in my opinion support classes shouldnt really want to do this, and since it was nerfed I expect most are split specced between enhancement and rejuv.

Friars provide Heat/Cold/Matter resists. Their alternative to speccing enhance is probably rejuv and since Friars always seem to hit hard I expect most do not spec much if at all in rejuv.

Paladins provide chants for all resists + triple resist chants although at a reduced level of resist, 10% i think. I expect most palas have some spec in this line.

PLUS of course the Bunker of Faith RA for clerics providing a 50% melee resists.

HIBERNIA:

Wardens give the Body/Spirit/Energy resists. I cannot imagine any warden not speccing nurture since it also provides 6sec PBT.

Druids get the Heat/Cold/Matter resists. Their alternative spec line is similar to the clerics, the path of a soloer with the DOT's etc. Again personally I dont see a support classe following that path.

Bards are hibernia's chanter with all the resists available in single chant form. Unlike Albion who also got the triple resist chants. Again I'd expect all bards to have specced this line.

PLUS of course the BAoD RA courtesy of your friendly and not uber at all Enchanters providing 50% magic resists evn though I beleive it is meant to be a self spell not group wide, bug?

MIDGARD:

Healers give the Body/Spirit/Energy resists in the Augmentation line that provides nothing more than these and celerity a melee haste buff. Very Very few healers spec Aug since they are our realms primarily healer and CC so must spec Mending and Pacification to varying levels depending upon preferred play style.

Shaman give the Heat/Cold/Matter resists, I'd expect all Shammies to spec the aug line to at least some degree for the end regen, so these resists are commonly available.

Skald give the full range of resist chants. Again no triple resist chants like Albion has (but they are just Mythics love child - just a little poke of fun to help stir up the subject) but at least all skald spec the line so it is available wheteher its used or bugged or whatever.

PLUS group resist RA's of none, none whatsoever, nothing, thanks alot Mythic for all of Midgards RA's


So In summary, and of course in my opinion and from my experience I would expect in a balanced group consisting of pretty regular spec's the following

Albion can pretty much expect to have all their magic resists boosted above the base 26% provided by equipment PLUS the 50% boost to all melee resists with BoF, PLUS a triple resist chant.

Hibernia can pretty much expect to have all their magic resists boosted above the base 26% provided by equipment PLUS the 50% boost to all magic resists with BAoD.

Midgard can expect Heat/Cold/Matter resists increased.

THIS SUCKS !! And I look forward to the day when Mythic nerfs resists with some sort of cap like they nerfed evade and gives Midgard RA's a long overdue complete rebuild. This is one area of the game in which there is absolutely no chance of realm balance. And we all know how important resists are. It will happen you mark my words

There we go, all over, enjoy, discuss, flame, whine, add your own reason why your 2 enemy realms are soo much stronger than your own gimped realm.

 

[hercules-df]

all insta stun/mezz is the worst thing about rvr, give each realm the excact same mez.stun.root on the relevant classes. almost balanced RVR.

 

[mid_Efour]

yes- however the argument will return with "Mids have the best CC and PBAoE" so you lose already.

 

[acei]

Give us a starting class with 100STR and over-powered (soon to be nerfed) LA or a class that has 4 pets and a insta-lifetap on a 4 second timer.... or a healing class that has power-regen, AoE stun and AoE mezz and insta stun and AoE mezz.....

Nerf the BD's!
Nerf the healers Pacification line!

 

[mid_Efour]

or a healing class that hits for 500 every 2 seconds yeah ok

and pac healers are just sorcs in chain when specced pac the sooner u idiots learn this, pac healers cant heal for shit they have no QC and once their instas are used great !! la la la run around crying ........ dead

 

[thorungla]

Originally posted by mid_Efour
yes- however the argument will return with "Mids have the best CC and PBAoE" so you lose already.

I think since the recent patch Albion and Midgard's mez is quite balanced.

MIDGARD - insta mez and stun on a 10? minute timer with an area of 150-300 depending on spec.

ALBION - no timers, quickcast, bolt range and 350-400 area depending on spec, plus a self resist mez buff.

HIBERNIA - is a bit stuffed here but hey they all seem to stun and they got group purge so what do they care

I'd actually think there are quite a few healers that wish they werent the realms primary CC and could get on with the job of healing. Maybe I'm just a purist.

As for the PBAOE, given our potenital to AE stun and tehn PBAOE in a good group perhaps that is a point well made or prempted. But both Albs and Hibs have the potential to SOS or GP in a good group so sort of negates it perhaps. I still think personally Enchanters make the best PBAOE since they can cast stun themselves alongside every other caster in the realm.

 

[Archeon]

With the introduction of spread heals i've noticed theres been a significant drop in the number of high pac (45-48) spec healers, it used to be i could get a PoM2 off just about any healer except the old Aug spec reject (nah, i love you really Aug spec reje... healers )

Now i'm usually ending up with PoC's / PoI's and on occasion PoT (not that i mind, it still beats my PoM1 ). All this so that people can have the leet spread heals, i won't deny they are a good tool in the right situation (1-2 people getting beat-up) but when you have more than 4 people losing health at an alarming rate spread heal is about as effective as a ST heal (hence this is when i break out my group heal )

I love my spec (46mend, 28aug, 4pac) but its left me at a kind of dead-end, theres not a great deal i can offer over a 39mend/38pac healer besides the res and the 100% insta heals (did i say 100%? i mean't to say 100% of the casters health... did i say that? i mean 1316hp when i'm capping at arround 1700+!!!)

Its a shame because i used to love being in RvR groups with myself/pac healer/shaman, that way i'd usually get a PoM2 and could focus on keeping people (and myself) alive while the other guy focused on keeping the casters/tanks mezzed and the shaman could... urmm.... well you know, whatever it is shamans do when they arn't buffing


Still, you albi's can be happy theres atleast one Midgard healer with no form of AE mez (though i still have a 6sec AE stun ).

As for the people still whining about healers having the best CC in the game, well i'l stick with the time honoured argument... THATS ALL WE HAVE!... we can't spec in a big stick and evade blows, we can't spec for PBT, we only get 1:1 spec:level points. So stop whining, its getting on my nerves (though i won't argue PBAE and AE stun Might be a little overpowering, but then i say nerf the PBAE (which an SM has to spec higher to get anyway)

 

[tildson]

There you go "melee-realm"

Seriously, i hope they will tone down resists. Way too high at it is atm

 

[thorungla]

Wish we were the melee realm but its clearly not allowed. Oh no the melee realms dual wield spec does more damage than the other realms. LA gets nerfed to a level below normal wep spec.

Our 2h tanks do less damage than other realms large weapon specs because the melee realms 2h = 115% and non melee realms 2h = 140%

The old definitions for the 3 realm dont really seem to apply in any way whatsoever. I wonder how many more people will be leaving Midgard soon, its sad the way things are going atm. Bring on the Midgard love patch I say

 

[Khalen]

Cough Cough, get some facts straight...

Paladin chants do NOT stack with cleric, friar resists. They have the stupid way of overwriting even higher resists (cleric doing 24% resist and pala does chant it erases cleric resist)

And LA nerf as you call it is a fix because it was not intentioned that way... (thanks to Mythics great testers out there (NOT))

 

[thorungla]

Originally posted by Khalen
Cough Cough, get some facts straight...

Paladin chants do NOT stack with cleric, friar resists. They have the stupid way of overwriting even higher resists (cleric doing 24% resist and pala does chant it erases cleric resist)

And LA nerf as you call it is a fix because it was not intentioned that way... (thanks to Mythics great testers out there (NOT))

Cough cough, read things thoroughly

Never said they did stack, and this problem exists for skalds and I'm sure for bards too. However Albion does again come out on top since their supplier of resist chants can, if a cleric or friar is not available in group, provide these resists. Where as the other realms chanters can only provide a single resist.

As for the LA, if you think reducing spec lines damage isnt a nerf, well ummm, hmmm what is? But I was replying then to the mention of Mid being the melee realm, and sighting a couple of examples where we clearly have never been and soon wont be

 

[Tobold]

look, the realms are different.
We may have higher resists, but you have insta mez, insta aoe mez, insta aoe stun, castable aoe stun, albion has none of these.
How boring would it be if everyone had the same spells, the realms would be completely identical and boring, boost midgards melee power abit, and its fine imo

 

[Spinky]

Originally posted by mid_Efour
or a healing class that hits for 500 every 2 seconds yeah ok

This is the same as the old Alb argument that insta stun is overpowered etc


Because Friars can spec a healing line doesn't make them simply a healing class full stop, 3 quarters of their spec lines are pretty much dedicated to combat, I rarely hear of wardens being tagged as a healing class, usually pseudo-tank class is the one that gets thrown around (albeit weak fighters) and mentalists can spec a healing line, are they an overpowered dotting, post level 50 pet wielding, manacracking, nuking for 400 or so healers, no they're casters.

A friar specced in rejuv is a healer/healing class, those not specced in it aren't.

Wardens specced in regrowth are healers, and mentalists in mentalism are too, i guess oO

It's the same way i wouldn't regard a Pac healer to be a true healing class, if the person playing it decides to give up the chance to spec highly in the so-called 'primary' line forr classes with this ability, then i say it becomes a different character completely, but that's just my opinion, which i am allowed by the way, to skew in any direction i want

 

[thorungla]

Originally posted by Tobold
look, the realms are different.
We may have higher resists, but you have insta mez, insta aoe mez, insta aoe stun, castable aoe stun, albion has none of these.
How boring would it be if everyone had the same spells, the realms would be completely identical and boring, boost midgards melee power abit, and its fine imo

Indeed they are different, however resists are a fundamental part of the game mechanics and all the realms do have the same spells which show this (apart from the triple resist chants in albion already mentioned and are pretty bugged so not particularly useful for each realms chanter)

The point is that half the resists are in a fundamentally, imo, unviable spec line, of a class which already has to do the job of 2 of the opposing realms classes. And this is before I even see additional 50% as the undeniably great RA's take effect.

Even the dedicated rvr guilds in Midgard just bite their lips and curse under their breath when they suddenly are trying to fight a battle against potenitally close to 100% resists in the case of Hibernia and magic. All that can be done as you hit for 20-30 (-400) is comment that hopefully their RA's wont be up next time we encounter them.

I am honestly suprised that nobody seems to accept the signifigance of 1 group having 75-100% resist vs a group with 25-50% against some magic types. Albs must curse too when they face a hib group with BAoD up. Well now realise that mids curse when we face both albs and hibs when these RA's are up. I'd say most have just got used to nuking our enemy for less than they nuke us back due to the base difference in resists due to availability. Doesnt mean its not still a large difference.

As for the age old issue of Mid healers having insta mez and stun. I dont think anyone can say since patch that mids have been clearly winning the battle for CC and this is due to the change in mez range and area for Albs, as I mentioned in an earlier reply.

 

[Shike]

it depends k12345

a good middiegrp SHOULD have a pac-healer, an aug/mend-healer and a shammy with a decent lvl of aug and a skald, it is that simple.

a good albgroup SHOULD have a sorc, minstrel, pally, friar, cleric

a good hibgrp SHOULD have a bard, druid, warden

lemme see

healer, healer, shammy, skald=4

sorc, mincer, pally, friar, cleric=5

bard, druid, warden=3

hmm.....

this is merely taking some major importances into consideration such as:

the 6 types of available resists
endregen
speed
healing
CC

IF we add PBT as a neccesity we suddenly have 5 for mids, 6 for albs and still 3 for hibs.

IF we take healing into consideration mids have 3 that heal, albs have 2 and hibs have 3 in a good balanced groupcore only.

as you easily can figure out, it is easiest for hibs to put up a group with all important abilities, mids come on second place and albs come last just because of the numbers of classes that is needed as a base or call it foundation of a group.

I know mids lack aug/mend healers but, is it really an balanceissue? It is not imho, if mids wanted to perform well and build a balanced group for RvR, why dont they do it? Same goes for hibs and albs of course.

My ultimate point is that if you build a group from all 3 realms with whatever classes you would like for utility and balance it well, you would probably find out that it is quite balanced in a fight between these 3 groups nomatter how you twist it or turn it. Otherwise one group from our wellknown RvRguilds here on prydwen would _always_ win, nomatter what, and do that happen? nope.

It is not Mythics fault mid lack healers with the correct speccs, its not Mythic fault people dont play needed classes with the correct speccs for a wellbalanced group for RVR, it is the players own fault for not researching and thinking a bit more and do something that is needed in the realm for balanced groups, instead many players tend to roll fotmclasses just because they wanna own or something

maybe I am totally wrong and dont know jackshit, I dunno, this is just how I see it

 

[-ag-bometal]

Amen

 

[klavrynd]

<snip> I rarely hear of wardens being tagged as a healing class, usually pseudo-tank class is the one that gets thrown around (albeit weak fighters) and mentalists can spec a healing line, are they an overpowered dotting, post level 50 pet wielding, manacracking, nuking for 400 or so healers, no they're casters.

why should wardens spec melee when they can get the best spec heal with the specpoints they have ( friar 1.5x, warden 1.5x , shaman 1.5 uuh no 1x because they can't spec a weapon)
wardens are on the naturalist damage table and other then taunting mobs of the chanters when exping i dont see a reason why to spec further in melee since you have 5 damage dealer spot in your normal hib rvr team.

as for mentalists the things you're mentioning are all in seperate lines (healing in mentalism, dot-manacrack in mana and dot-charm in light) so there's a void argument

as for the CC issues :

both hib and alb effectively get countermeasures against mid cc (among others)

hib gets boad (no magic damage nor cc for at least 30s there) and gp (oh insta .. too bad its gone) whereas alb gets sos heyhey its cc, lets run at 200% speed so everyone can hit the mezz of us) and bof (hi melee realm you hit me like a lvl 5 now)

adding the resistances issue the 11s aestun lasts what ...4s?

ps : bards have aemezz as well now

 

[Flimgoblin]

nerf PAC some more replace it with a gimp damage line, and you'll have plenty of mend/aug healers

but I don't think you'd want that really.

 

[StormriderX]

Only like 5% of the chanter population has baod.

Only 10% actually knows what it is and how it works.

The other 90% get stuff like wild minion and mastery of water

 

[Shike]

Originally posted by klavrynd
why should wardens spec melee when they can get the best spec heal with the specpoints they have ( friar 1.5x, warden 1.5x , shaman 1.5 uuh no 1x because they can't spec a weapon)
wardens are on the naturalist damage table and other then taunting mobs of the chanters when exping i dont see a reason why to spec further in melee since you have 5 damage dealer spot in your normal hib rvr team.

as for mentalists the things you're mentioning are all in seperate lines (healing in mentalism, dot-manacrack in mana and dot-charm in light) so there's a void argument

as for the CC issues :

both hib and alb effectively get countermeasures against mid cc (among others)

hib gets boad (no magic damage nor cc for at least 30s there) and gp (oh insta .. too bad its gone) whereas alb gets sos heyhey its cc, lets run at 200% speed so everyone can hit the mezz of us) and bof (hi melee realm you hit me like a lvl 5 now)

adding the resistances issue the 11s aestun lasts what ...4s?

ps : bards have aemezz as well now

so basically you say that warders suckzors bigtime vs anything that is even close to an organized enemygroup just because you are mids?

 

[StormriderX]

Originally posted by klavrynd
why should wardens spec melee when they can get the best spec heal with the specpoints they have ( friar 1.5x, warden 1.5x , shaman 1.5 uuh no 1x because they can't spec a weapon)
wardens are on the naturalist damage table and other then taunting mobs of the chanters when exping i dont see a reason why to spec further in melee since you have 5 damage dealer spot in your normal hib rvr team.

as for mentalists the things you're mentioning are all in seperate lines (healing in mentalism, dot-manacrack in mana and dot-charm in light) so there's a void argument

as for the CC issues :

both hib and alb effectively get countermeasures against mid cc (among others)

hib gets boad (no magic damage nor cc for at least 30s there) and gp (oh insta .. too bad its gone) whereas alb gets sos heyhey its cc, lets run at 200% speed so everyone can hit the mezz of us) and bof (hi melee realm you hit me like a lvl 5 now)

adding the resistances issue the 11s aestun lasts what ...4s?

ps : bards have aemezz as well now

At least you can gain some satisfaction that 99% of all minstrels who purchase SoS will never ever use it until everyone in group is dead. Then they activate it to sprint back to atk to save themselves 10s on the necky \o/.

After like 1yr of rvr they save like 100g or something o_0

Leet \o/

 

[the_smurflord]

/em plays a very small violin

 

[old.Tohtori]

Originally posted by the_smurflord
/em plays a very small violin

/em plays a bongo that goes da dum da dum dum.

 

[old.Gombur Glodson]

Originally posted by StormriderX
At least you can gain some satisfaction that 99% of all minstrels who purchase SoS will never ever use it until everyone in group is dead. Then they activate it to sprint back to atk to save themselves 10s on the necky \o/.

After like 1yr of rvr they save like 100g or something o_0

Leet \o/

This just shows us how alb/exc minstrels are ^^

 

[old.Filip]

99% of all minstrels who purchase SoS will never ever use it until everyone in group is dead

not quite true ...

at least not in my groups .. the trick is to demand that minser's and cleric's make a /g macro who tells the rest of the group when SOS or BOF is up ..

asking them to declare when they use it will make sure they use it for benefit of the group ..

Filip
Minser of HB

ps: and yes i do like to have more then 1 minser in a group especially after the latest minser love ...

 

[old.tuppe]

liked that how much you need each realm for cc/healing etc in group.
now rethink too how many those classes what is needed can share dmg? that leave middies short.
bers was viable, 1.62 if go thru like it is, because those copple spot what was leftover needed class what can share dmg fast to match against other realm.

offcourse all those healer instas are nice but as we know, resists shorter example stun time, every cc time.
now middies are lacking those castable resist -> cc stick us more powerfull.
personally i am building my own healer as pac oriented, getting just 1st spread heal.

so far notice when xp, time fly like wings, so much to do maybe too much?
need look around for agros, cc those if need,
controlling group htp bars for heals
speak in chat, 99% time mainly giving info what is cc/power/heal situation etc etc.
healer job is sometimes fun but you need 100% concentration.

 

[Tasans]

Yes the melee realm...

We are clearly so overpowered in melee that we need more nerfing.

MP arcanium great spiked hammer.

 

[Damon_D]

God you keep on comming with the old " but you have uber CC "...Well maybe we USED to have but with the new resists we have so so CC..our 9 sec aoe stun last 4 sec's or sumething at best, if its not purged, groupe purged , or just SOS'd trugh , same goes for the mezz..it used to be realy good now its ok


Shike you say we have 3 healing classes.. I would like you to name em.. I see healer and shaman....no one ell's

"99% of all minstrels who purchase SoS will never ever use it until everyone in group is dead"

If they are that stupid..well then nothing will save ya

 

[Spinky]

Originally posted by klavrynd
why should wardens spec melee when they can get the best spec heal with the specpoints they have ( friar 1.5x, warden 1.5x , shaman 1.5 uuh no 1x because they can't spec a weapon)
wardens are on the naturalist damage table and other then taunting mobs of the chanters when exping i dont see a reason why to spec further in melee since you have 5 damage dealer spot in your normal hib rvr team.

as for mentalists the things you're mentioning are all in seperate lines (healing in mentalism, dot-manacrack in mana and dot-charm in light) so there's a void argument

That wasn't actually my point, I said I rarely heard of wardens being called healers, which was true. Why shouldn't they spec melee, are you dictating that every Warden must spec high regrowth too because they have the points? Maybe some actually like playing the tank like role, anyway.


What's void about the mentalist thing, simply because the spells I mentioned are in different lines doesn't make it any less void. These are things called examples Klav.

It's true, they can DoT, they can nuke for 400 give or take resists, they can have high level pets, they can have spec heals, two of which are in the same line (nukes & pet) but my reading there was that they have the capabilities to do those things, not that they have them all at once, which you obviously thought I was indicating.


Would you call a cave shaman a healer? I sure as hell wouldn't.
Wouldn't call a Warden specced in melee a healer, but would a regrowth spec Warden, Heck, wouldn't even call a druid or a healer a healer if they specced in nature and pacification respectively.

And since I've completely lost the reason for this thread, I'm not going to bother reading it or replying any more

 

[thorungla]

A good viewpoint Shike, but since we have also identified that the chant resist's do not stack (thankfully) and these are really only an alternative source for the resists if you are missing a core supplier of castable resist buffs. Then the Alb and Mid group numbers balance out. Does still show even more so how easy it is for the Hibs to fulfill all a groups needs and still leave lots of room for more evil stunning pbaoing BAoD'ing enchanters

Originally posted by Damon Doombring
Shike you say we have 3 healing classes.. I would like you to name em.. I see healer and shaman....no one ell's

The third Midgard healer class is a supp specced SM using the hit transfer (I remember this providing a 'heal' of 400 at level 40 approx. Not frequently seen since someone in the middle of either mobs or albs/hibs with high aggro or risk of being targetted isn't really in a position to stop dealing damage and transfer their own hits to a group member thereby increasing their aggro and/or shortening their own life.