Alb Caster Group 4 Teh Win

[ilum]

Here's my idea for an Alb Caster group that I think could perform decent in RvR...it should atleast make some change from the usual melee-merc squad

1 Body Sorcerer
2 Minstrel
3 Paladin
4 Cleric
5 Icewizard
6 Icewizard
7 Body cabalist
8 S/S Armsman

Sorc gets 24 in mind, which is enough to mezz well (vs determination mezz not really an issue anyway), and gets 50% cold debuff. Icewizards should assist-nuke for ~1000 dmg, so 2 shotting most classes except well-buffed tanks. Body cabalist AE diseases and can heal (is disease shortened by determination btw?). Disease should make even the 3-healer groups struggle to heal vs 1000 dmg nukes In addition to Icewizard's nukes (or assist PBAE with slam if tanks are on em), you also have Body Sorc and Cabalist which should give decent nukes ~~400 dmg. Paladin preferably with 50 shield, assisting savages are normally easily guarded, atleast 2-handed ones. Shield/Slash Armsman with high determination and Soldier's Barricade to guard casters as well.

Well thats the plan anyways...would like to know if anyone interested in such a group to try it

 

[NeonBlue]

id replace the ice wizzs with fire wizs tbh...with a body sorc heat debuffing...a good fire wiz will 1/2 shot most classes with their bolts.

or

1 fire wiz assists the other...sorc heat debuffs..and just DD em to death.

But am biased i think fire wizs get a raw deal in Albion, and their dmg is underrated.

Best dmg i did with 1 bolt with a 30% heat debuff was 1024+900crit...so god knows what it would be with a 50% debuff

but otherwise i would support the idea of more caster groups in RvR

But Albs seem to have a problem defending casters...so rather
then learn & adapt, they just leave em out and make these silly melee only groups!

 

[old.Atrox]

Good luck, you'll need it vs Instantgard and Baodernia

 

[old.SadonTheGrey]

im up for it!

tho i can only mainly play saturdays :/

p.s. fire wiz dont get pbaoe to create a defensive box, bolts are on a 20 sec timer, only useful versus casters, and their dd's only do like 100 dmg each max, whereas two ice wiz hitting a cap of 1024 per pbaoe pwns

 

[Ardrias_Mid]

Instantgard *fniss*

 

[old.linnet]

Was suggesting something similar to guild.

Need:

2 clerics
1 minstrel
1 body/spirit cab with 30% body debuff
1 mind sorcerer
2 body sorcs
1 fire wizard

Cab debuffs for self & sorcs, and diseases. 1 body sorc debuffs for wizard. Mind sorc uses str/con debuffs, mezzes and nukes. Lots of demezzers in this group.

Haven't managed to set this up yet, although we do now have all the requisite cabalist/sorcerers

 

[old.Atrox]

If I were to do a Caster based group I think I would try:

1 Cleric
1 Minstrel
1 Mind Sorc
5 Wizards ( VP )

 

[vestax]

Originally posted by old.Atrox
If I were to do a Caster based group I think I would try:

1 Cleric
1 Minstrel
1 Mind Sorc
5 Wizards ( VP )

Best one so far, still like my idea of

1 Rejuv Cleric
1 Mind Sorc
1 Minstrel - Mach 5
5 Mintrels - Red Pets

And a few buffbots ofc

 

[NeonBlue]

Originally posted by old.SadonTheGrey
im up for it!

tho i can only mainly play saturdays :/

p.s. fire wiz dont get pbaoe to create a defensive box, bolts are on a 20 sec timer, only useful versus casters, and their dd's only do like 100 dmg each max, whereas two ice wiz hitting a cap of 1024 per pbaoe pwns

well obviously u dont know a fire wiz very well.....DDs do like 100dmg each? lol where u got that from...what rubbish!

yes bolts are on 20sec timer...so when u used them u use DD...till bolts are ready again

and for the record my fire wiz deals dmg anything from 300-500 per DD depending on class/resist

like i said in previous post fire wizs dmg is underrated !

 

[hangianix]

Well, Gelid was Ice-Fire-Ice-Fire-Ice (or maybe specced more times? ) so he defo knows both side.

 

[-Freezingwiz-]

this combo is done by some high RR albs on excal... works well...

and u could change the mind sorc for a wizzie then u can kill 1 fg almost instant before mezz lands every 15 mins


1 mincer
2 clerics
1 body sorc
1 mind sorc
2 ice wizzies
1 ice theugist(with 8 sek pbt)

 

[old.windforce]

ilum,

i seen hilar around these days too


really like to join this

 

[old.Bubble]

1 Sorc
1 Air Theurgist
1 Fire Wizard
1 Mincer
1 Spirit Cabby (rest in body of cause)
1 Paladin
2 Clerics


2 class's with 50% debuff and 2 with High damage dd's castable every 2 seconds
also AoE diesease, 2 interupting pets, Sorc AoE dot RA, VP, castable pets as well as the normal BoF x 2 and FH etc

 

[bouh]

Originally posted by old.windforce
ilum,

i seen hilar around these days too


really like to join this

im up for expiriment too if u need my help.

but i want to remind u that those days when we were trying with 2 ice wizzies based grp we sucked pretty much.

there r too many reasons:
1. If we jump some1 we can win unless baod, high rr tanks gr, or healer/bard purges and drop insta cc.
2. If some1 jump1 us we'd rather eat grass.
3. Most cases sorc doesnt have time for ice debuff.
4. Slamers, mincer, cleric very often loose synchronization when many tanks inc to pbae box. I'd say thet saldom choose targets correctly.

Our formal setup was:
2 ice wizzies
1 8sec pbt/wind theu
1 44mind/31body sorc
1 cleric
1 friar/cleric
1 mincer
1 50 shield pally
1 hybrid arms

 

[Dunmer]

Muahahaha, HF with that template against savages and insta mez/stun.

 

[old.SadonTheGrey]

Neonblue... thats roughly the extra dmg after u get a 50% resist debuff, as both will normally hit for the dmg cap.

In typicall rvr I saw fire hitting for 300(-300) with spec DD and ice using base DD 250(-250) - ish

With a 50% debuff fire reaps the benefits on single nukes as u hit them dmg cap all the time - I think it was 698 with mom2 and acuity 3 and capped int when I was fire. The ice cap is in the region of 590, but don't quote me on that, I haven't had a 50% debuff for months (since I respecced back to ice, all the body sorcs respecced to mind ~~)

However, whilst fire does indeed have an edge for single nukes, you need pbaoe these days to kill anything. With a 50% debuff I think my dmg cap is 1012 on pbaoe, and this is what does the killing these days, esp with 2 ice wiz casting in unison in a defensive pbaoe box. 698 just don't cut it.


And also hangianx is right, I've whored the specs like a maniac as RvR styles have changed, and I can safely say that right now, unless you can debuff your own nuke along with 2 of ur mates and a bloody elf with an ae str/con debuff, you won't get very far with single nukes. PBAoE seems to be the only way to go fore casters in RvR these days, and it is to this end that I think ice wizards should be used.

I wouldn't even count bolts as a factor in RvR, they give you one chance every 20 seconds to kill an enemy caster, sure, but one heal on it/miss and you have to use that painful single DD again. Don't even go there with anything wearing more than leather.

 

[ilum]

Thanks for the response, and once we find a Body Cabalist we can gather up some people and try it for some fun runs

The point of making the group is not to go around wtfpwning everyone - It's not suppose to be the best Alb group possible (although who knows, it might be). It's just to get some variance and try something new.

Alandir I remember our two Icewizard's group weren't good, but the problem usually was that only 1 icewiz had guard becuase we didnt have a S/S armsman

And honestly, I think we have a fair chance of beating Savage groups. Mezz root disease volcanic pillar debuffs, guard/slam PBAE, group has a lot of utility and will be pose an unusual fight to both the Hib and Mid groups

But in the end it's just to have a fun group and let Albion's casters enjoy RvR again

 

[old.mattshanes]

I got 50 ice wiz i will give it a go xD

 

[Aoln]

imo 8 theurgists using pet spam assist

 

[NeonBlue]

Originally posted by old.SadonTheGrey
Neonblue... thats roughly the extra dmg after u get a 50% resist debuff, as both will normally hit for the dmg cap.

In typicall rvr I saw fire hitting for 300(-300) with spec DD and ice using base DD 250(-250) - ish

With a 50% debuff fire reaps the benefits on single nukes as u hit them dmg cap all the time - I think it was 698 with mom2 and acuity 3 and capped int when I was fire. The ice cap is in the region of 590, but don't quote me on that, I haven't had a 50% debuff for months (since I respecced back to ice, all the body sorcs respecced to mind ~~)

However, whilst fire does indeed have an edge for single nukes, you need pbaoe these days to kill anything. With a 50% debuff I think my dmg cap is 1012 on pbaoe, and this is what does the killing these days, esp with 2 ice wiz casting in unison in a defensive pbaoe box. 698 just don't cut it.


And also hangianx is right, I've whored the specs like a maniac as RvR styles have changed, and I can safely say that right now, unless you can debuff your own nuke along with 2 of ur mates and a bloody elf with an ae str/con debuff, you won't get very far with single nukes. PBAoE seems to be the only way to go fore casters in RvR these days, and it is to this end that I think ice wizards should be used.

I wouldn't even count bolts as a factor in RvR, they give you one chance every 20 seconds to kill an enemy caster, sure, but one heal on it/miss and you have to use that painful single DD again. Don't even go there with anything wearing more than leather.

sorry but i disagree...the 300-500 dmg i was talking about on my DDs...was WITHOUT debuffs...all i had was good decent cleric buffs...my DDs with a heat debuff went above the 500dmg mark.

My realm rank was only rr3 lvl9...but i had aug dex lvl3 aug acuity lvl 3...then MoA MoM WP at lvl 1...so my realm abilities werent that spectular...but with good clerci buffs & spec buffs...i would cast a DD every 2secs like i said previously ranging between 300-500dmg WITHOUT heat debuff.

And again with the bolts i disagree with you...yes miss rate with bolts can be painful...but i will take most casters down in 1/2 bolts...as for not hitting anything not wearing leather...rubbish...i hit anything...on a chain wearing mid i can hit up to 500dmg with a bolt, and then switch to DD doing upto 500 dmg again...and casting between 300-500dmg every 2secs...that mid is gonna be dead before he reaches me...unless hes got a good healer on him...but if the rest are mezzed ive nothing to worry about. If not i nuke him for a bit...root...then nuke till he drops.

I dont care what else is coming at me...as thats the job of the other ppl in my group..to keep ppl off my back while am nuking...once i start casting...i will carry on till 1 of us is dead...and sadly since Alb tanks seem, not to have a clue about protecting casters...most times its me that dies...but am always satisfied in knowing my target was nearly dead...or the healer that kept him alive is nearly out of power...giving my group a better chance.

Its all about knowing how to play ur caster...sure we go down fast...but it sure is fun watching a middie tank trying to come at you..but u know his gonna be dead and drop at your feet!

As for pbaoe groups...to me they have too many downfalls...yes its great for PvE...but ill take fire over ice anyday for RvR.

But my fire wiz long retired from RvR in Albion due certain attitudes on Albion...so am just making comments from my own views & experience...in the hope that casters will get a better deal in Albion...nothing more soul destroying then to spend all them months getting to 50...looking forward to RvR...to be told when u get there ...you aint wanted or you cant get groups because they only want melee classes !!

 

[NeonBlue]

Originally posted by ilum
But in the end it's just to have a fun group and let Albion's casters enjoy RvR again

Albions casters should never of been outcasted from RvR in the 1st place imo !

 

[Eroda]

Well if u need an ice wiz, im always around

 

[shadowz]

2clerics 1 pala 1 mind sorc 1 mincer 2 theurg 1 spirit caba
caba debuff spirit theurgs + 1 smite cleric nuke the shit out of them :>
2x pbt guard 2x bof pala can slamm / mincer can stun any tanks who purge etc

 

[hangianix]

Do not copy paste Tich

 

[old.SadonTheGrey]

neon... everything you've just said is pure BS. Bolting chain wearers? Are you retarded? 500 dmg on a DD? Was that a greycon? I got MoM2,WP2,MoTA2, acuity 3, and am usual well buffed (since I don't see the oint in gong into Emain w/o a cleric ) and I haven't seen that kind of damage with any of the three specs since they introduced SC.

Who the hell are you in game?

 

[old.Sandariel]

Originally posted by old.SadonTheGrey
Who the hell are you in game? [/B]

His Wizzie's Molten I think.

Originally posted by Neonblue
sorry but i disagree...the 300-500 dmg i was talking about on my DDs...was WITHOUT debuffs...all i had was good decent cleric buffs...my DDs with a heat debuff went above the 500dmg mark.

[snip]

But my fire wiz long retired from RvR in Albion due certain attitudes on Albion...[/B]

300 to 500 dmg with a DD on a tank?
Erm... That's the kind of damage I did _before_ SC and resist buffs and baod and all this other nice stuff was implemented.
Guess you retired before SC/RAs/resist buffs?
It's hard to stop a tank with determination 5 with any kind of CC.

And nuking him down before he gets into melee range... The last time that was possible was about one year ago

Well, nuking for 200 dmg on a tank with somewhere between 2000 and 3000 buffbotted HP is no fun. Oh, and that's if the tank doesn't have IP up. Have to kill him twice actually if he does have it.
Oh, forgot, what if he has a healer backing him up?
Hmm, wait most likely you won't hit him at all, since you're going to be interrupted all the time... yay

Evil mid looks into your direction
Your cast is interrupted
You can cast again in 4 seconds

Yeah, casters sure rock
It's not the melee classes fault that most alb casters suck in open field rvr.
It's Mythics fault...

Anyway, 1.65 is in the works and will contain some stuff to "raise caster survivability" and will implement some resist changes, so I'll stop the whine now and just don't play my wiz untill something has changed.
He's been shelved for about a year now, another 3 or 4 months don't make a difference

 

[NeonBlue]

Originally posted by old.SadonTheGrey
neon... everything you've just said is pure BS. Bolting chain wearers? Are you retarded? 500 dmg on a DD? Was that a greycon? I got MoM2,WP2,MoTA2, acuity 3, and am usual well buffed (since I don't see the oint in gong into Emain w/o a cleric ) and I haven't seen that kind of damage with any of the three specs since they introduced SC.

Who the hell are you in game?

why is everything i said BS?...why just because u dont like it? or because u havent had that dmg ?

why shouldnt i bolt chain wearers?....just because u say dont do it ?

i play how i want to play and if i wanna bolt chain wearers before i DD em to death...then i will . Am quite aware the dmg will be less and the miss rate can be poor...but as a fire wiz, i nuke at range...and will ALWAYS open up with a bolt on my targets before DDing!


As for the dmg i said UPTO 500dmg on a DD...i didnt say i got it everytime..or regularly just...that ive been known to do that kinda dmg without debuffs. But on average i did nuke between 350dmg-450dmg on chain wearers..obviously more on leather/cloth.

If i was nuking for the kind of dmg u was talking about ..what was it...100dmg? you really think mid tanks would waste their time ganking me if i was only tickling em with 100dmg per nuke!

And you really think i would bother playing RvR, if i was doing that kind of dmg.

Btw aug dex improves ur casting time and also helps on dmg..maybe thats why u aint seen that dmg...because i had dex lvl3...and noticed a considerable improvement on both dmg and casting time when i got it.

 

[NeonBlue]

300 to 500 dmg with a DD on a tank?
Erm... That's the kind of damage I did _before_ SC and resist buffs and baod and all this other nice stuff was implemented.
Guess you retired before SC/RAs/resist buffs?

wrong !...i played my wiz in emain uptil about 2months ago!

It's hard to stop a tank with determination 5 with any kind of CC.

correct

And nuking him down before he gets into melee range... The last time that was possible was about one year ago

wrong...i suggest u learn to play better
the only tanks i had a hard time taking down before they got to me was either high RR...savages...or tanks who knew how to play!

Yeah, casters sure rock
It's not the melee classes fault that most alb casters suck in open field rvr.
It's Mythics fault...

Agree & Disagree....is Alb tanks fault that they dont know how to protect casters...but Mythics fault wizs dont have more survivability or utility to able to last longer.

Ever since the /assist command came in ...imo it has got worse...back in the old days when they game 1st came out...it was ALWAYS the tanks jobs to make sure that their healers/casters survived...anyone with any intelligence knows if you keep these classes alive you have more chance of defeating your enemy. Back then you would have 1/2 tanks who actually used /stick and stuck to the main healer/caster and had guard & intercept on them...the caster/healer then could go about their work knowing that if anyone came for them...the tank who was stuck to em would deal with em. Was quite simple and effective..mid goes for caster...tank guarding caster slams mid...tank & caster kill mid...etc.

This tactic i used many atime back then..and it worked perfectly...perhaps RvR has changed that much ...that its not possible to do that anymore...i.e not so many 1fg vs 1fg fights anymore, stealthers etc...but it would be nice to see defensive tanks..actually do their jobs and defend !

But since the /assist command came in...it brought about the melee groups...so that everyone assisted the main tank and they just all jumped the same target the main tank picked. This left the rest of the group open and defenceless...which in turn resulted in healers/casters getting quick deaths.

I have only ever known a few tanks actually use guard in RvR on me...and ive thought oooh at last a tank who knows what they are doing...only to find that when we get in a fight...the tank runs off and starts whacking a hib/mid...so the mid/hib tanks see that our casters/healers got no protection and ignore the alb tanks whacking them...and head straight for us....Albs being albs obviously just keep on whacking the mid/hib tanks...ignoring the healers keeping the mid/hib tanks alive...and in turn the mids/hibs rip us apart.

No point in putting guard on me...if u aint gonna stay close to me...and i certainly arent gonna follow a tank round just because he wants to be RP whore

OOOh and let not forget those really good tanks who put "protect" on casters in RvR....the amount of times ive had to tell these ppl that protect does jack shit in RvR is unbelievable !!


Anyway, 1.65 is in the works and will contain some stuff to "raise caster survivability" and will implement some resist changes, so I'll stop the whine now and just don't play my wiz untill something has changed.
He's been shelved for about a year now, another 3 or 4 months don't make a difference

i aint whining...just pointing out a few things in the hope that it will make casters no longer outcasts, but thats doubtful as there always some "uber" kiddies that think they know best, wanting to do their FOTM chars/groups

 

[NeonBlue]

Who the hell are you ingame

Just someone who likes playing casters and was fed up of getting left out of the end game..because of other ppl's attitudes

And will always try and fight for casters rights to play RvR

 

[old.Sandariel]

Originally posted by NeonBlue
i aint whining...just pointing out a few things in the hope that it will make casters no longer outcasts, but thats doubtful as there always some "uber" kiddies that think they know best, wanting to do their FOTM chars/groups [/B]

I was actually talking about my own whine there But whatever, I didn't play my wiz for ages anyway...
He's Earth spec
The only thing where he's actually usefull is in a keep defence.
(Started as fire wiz tho, till umm, September 02 or so I think)

And even tho I DO have a single line respec left I don't dare to use it, since Mythic's about to change quite some stuff about wizzies so I don't want to waste it

Well, we'll see, atm I don't see wizzies doing any good in RvR unless they're in a well balanced guildgroup, and those usually prefer other classes.
There's no good reason to get a wiz in a group except VP maybe...
Tanks do more dmg, they do it faster, they don't drop in 0,1 secs so they can actually be healed, their attacks don't get interrupted all the time, and since there are no casted melee resists buffs (WHY?!) they don't suffer as much from resists as any caster out there.

And yes, a well played tank can protect a caster, but... is it worth it?

You actually use 2 classes to do the damage one class can do
lets say you use an S/S armsman to slam attackers and guard the wiz.
The wiz then does his nuking, he hits for less than, lets say, a merc would do.

So why get those two, and not two mercs with det 5 and IP instead?

Even more annoying is that if the tank blocks hits on you, you'll get interrupted anyway, and can't nuke for ~4 seconds.

Can't really blame those uber groups not to take wizzies with them, if they would, they wouldn't be uber

But I agree, those Cookie Cutter uber groups make RvR quite boring for those casual gamers (Yes I'm one of them, at least nowadays). I see a lot of those around who actually prefer PvE, since RvR is so frustrating

Anyway, didn't resubscribe, and I won't untill foundations is out, will play around a bit with housing and then I'll most likely cancel untill we'll get a nice balancing patch.

Atm neither my wiz nor my inf are fun to play, my wiz due to the issues discussed here, and my inf since every other assassin out there is buffed to the teeth. I don't mind to wait tho, sooner or later it will get better I hope

Oh and GIVF STAFFS THAT PROC WHEN CASTING!!111
Thanks