Ahem. FC/HB/Strife, Your attention please.

[old.LandShark]

This post is about tonight's HB/Strife/FC attempted raid on Avakr. I didn't actively partake in it, but I was sitting watching over Dramatis' shoulder and tbh, that was the biggest god-damn shambles that I can remember. Those present: 3fg HB, 2fg FC (i think?) and a fg of Strife.
If I may humbly (hah.) proffer some guildlines for the next raid - if, that is, Strife can be persuaded not to just bugger straight off out of the alliance. (this was after all their first "raid" with us)

1.) Do not, repeat NOT, keep in excess of 40 people waiting for over 40 minutes at the odin's ATK, for what was at most 5 stragglers. Of whom two were god-damn bots. Please set a maximum waiting time of 10 or 15minutes, and if anyone is 'there in a minute!' or 'Just in camelot hills atm!!' then tough luck. Be on time next time; God knows Tilda has been announcing the raid's time/date in /as for days.

2.) When the supposed raid "leader" (woo, overuse of irony anyone?) asks for a competent driver to lead the whole raid to the target keep... and such a driver (in this case Dramatis) volunteers, could the raid leader perhaps do a little less shouting of I'M TEH LEADZOR and a little more supporting the guide?

In relation to 2.), what pissed me off enough to actually come here and release my vitriol was this: upon finally arriving at Avakr - minus the unfortunate HB group who got delayed by guards and picked off by a FG+ of mids - we stopped. After a minute or two, Tilda started saying go go go! and so on, in the CG. Comments from Excalibur's First RR6 tank, first 50 mercenary, playing at the time his second 45+ alt, such as "Can we get a competent driver please? Let's go to bloody avakr already" when WE WERE STOOD OUTSIDE AVAKR...
Ugh. Shambles.

Another thing, the smart-ass comments. Won't go into detail, but, for someone who was whinging about delay at the TK, Ckiller, you sure were quick to make stupid-ass replies to important legitimate questions from the raid driver...

Suggestions for next raid:
Raid driver is actually allowed to lead.
A leader with some experience. I think frankly there WAS no real leadership there; gifvz BROMMMIIIXXX / WILDFIRE!
No longer than 15mins STRICT maximum waiting-around-like-sillybuggers time.
If people could please exercise some restraint in the raid chat group - or best yet, how about we severely restrict /as use and use AS for raids? Have a CG running too, for more detailed information, but orders and driver/leader questions only over the main chat line for the event...
To those who were flaming at Dramatis when the zerg was parked outside Avakr (waiting for some l e a d e r s h i p perhaps, although the leader didn't know we were at Avakr either...sigh)
please...
PLEASE...
shut up.

/dons asbestos underpants, sou-wester', does defiant jig and cries on Apathy's shoulder.

 

[josh_dk]

Sad to say that I can only agree fully with chera on this.

I participated in the raid and it was a farce.

 

[Duryn]

my smart arse comments own ;p, i doubt strife will be on the next alliance event tbh (this is my own comment and not that of th guilds etc etc ;f).
Most of the 2fg of strife that showed up were there 15 mins before the 8 o clock kick off, rest turned up on port 5 mins before kick off.
So some had to wait an hour for a buffbot, and 2 other people who hadnt even thought about organising a group until they arrived.
Great stuff....

 

[--Eraser--]

not that i am not interessted in all this (infact i enjoy reading this thread and im curious how it will go on), but why are you going to try settle this on BW forums?
i mean...doesnt your alliance has an own forum? this all seems to be something worth trying to settle without other people (who are not actually involved) around you laughing/flaming and making things not constructive but even worse...
just my thoughts thou...keep on, very entertaining :great:

 

[Draylor]

And why discuss this on these forums?

Unless of course you want every random passing bored idiot to comment. The fact that it wasnt the best of organisation was well discussed at the time.

 

[old.Odysseus]

I urge all Strife members to avoid making more comments on this thread.

It can only lead to a flamewar, which will lead to no good for anyone.

 

[Ckiller ofDust]

Like my good Guildleader stated i will not make any comments

But I need to know what i Said that was wrong pls do let me know????? cos this is something i have no idea to what it is and if u can show logs to

 

[Belomar]

Since this post was made on the BW forums, I feel invited to make my opinion, however uninformed, known (and no, I am no "random idiot", Draylor, thank you very much ). And my opinion is that the lesson to be learned from the raid described is that many of the members of the existing RvR guilds need to turn down their egos a notch or two. Players in these guilds quite naturally regard themselves as superior to most other players (whether consciously or subconsciously). To me, it seems like an alliance of FC, HB and Strife is bound to fail if this attitude prevails (at least in your behavior against each other).

Then again, I've grouped with all three of the mentioned guilds, and I have actually not encountered any elitism or arrogance directed at me. (Then again, that could be because I'm such a l337 guy myself!!!!1 )

As for the question of PvE versus RvR guilds, I would classify SS as a hybrid with both a PvE and an RvR branch. We have yet to have a mass exodus leaving for the RvR guilds and we mostly hold our own with our RvR guild groups, so I am reasonably satisified with that balance.

 

[old.LandShark]

Originally posted by Belomar
my opinion is that the lesson to be learned from the raid described is that many of the members of the existing RvR guilds need to turn down their egos a notch or two. Players in these guilds quite naturally regard themselves as superior to most other players (whether consciously or subconsciously). To me, it seems like an alliance of FC, HB and Strife is bound to fail if this attitude prevails (at least in your behavior against each other).

Then again, I've grouped with all three of the mentioned guilds, and I have actually not encountered any elitism or arrogance directed at me. (Then again, that could be because I'm such a l337 guy myself!!!!1 )

It wouldn't be natural, but anyhow.
There wasn't a conflict of egos here, I think. First problem was that the people leading raids should never be willing to make the zerg wait for a couple of people for almost an hour. That's problem one. Other problem was spam and general misuse both of /as and the chat group that was made for the raid.
So when Krane said "my group has guard aggro" and Dramatis (the driver) halted to let krane's grp finish & catch up, he promptly got told by the raid leaders GO GOG goO!¬! etc. Cue a few minutes of non-leader/grpleader/driver people spamming assorted crud and comic genius into the CG, and a whole load of no orders. When krane's group started dying to mids, Dramatis just thought "fuckit" in the absence of any actual orders from the raid leader, and moved on to Avakr. Where he stopped again and got flamed for being incompetent, by people who really ought to know when they're standing next to the raid's target keep. Ahem.
Right, nuff said I would imagine.
P.S: ckiller, if you want to contine our delightful PM conversation, I suggest you clear your mailbox.

 

[alithiel50]

I don't really think this is something that should have been brought to the Forums... I mean, we don't really need every Tom, Dick and Harry (emphasis on one name in particular.... that's right, we all know there are plenty of Harry's out there just waiting for any excuse to flame FC) reading about the one raid that didn't quite go according to plan when they've not heard about the many successful raids we've held.

However, now that it has:

1. "A leader with some experience. I think frankly there WAS no real leadership there; gifvz BROMMMIIIXXX / WILDFIRE!"

People need to be given an opportunity to lead in order to get that experience. No-one gets it right first time, and we hope that they learn from their mistakes. Don't flame people for trying. Albion in general lacks people willing to lead, and they have to start somewhere. Don't discourage people if things go wrong - make CONSTRUCTIVE criticism where necessary and encourage them to try again and do better!

2. "or best yet, how about we severely restrict /as use and use AS for raids? Have a CG running too, for more detailed information, but orders and driver/leader questions only over the main chat line for the event..."

When we're doing a raid, it's fine to restrict /as to raid business only. However, at other times it's a useful means of communication for forming groups and helping our allies with questions they have etc. I know there have been several complaints about how /as has been used of late, but my reaction is that if you don't feel it's relevant you can turn the channel off. Some people do use /as a little excessively, but that's something that can be resolved by means of a quiet discussion… Don't flame people about it please, you only upset them!

I believe that there is potential within this alliance for great things, and I hope that this one little stumbling block won’t cause any lasting damage.

And I also hope that people will continue to attend future guild events. I’ve been talking with Ashgen of Strife about arranging something in the not too distant future, so watch this space….

 

[old.LandShark]

Originally posted by alithiel50
I don't really think this is something that should have been brought to the Forums... I mean, we don't really need every Tom, Dick and Harry (emphasis on one name in particular.... that's right, we all know there are plenty of Harry's out there just waiting for any excuse to flame FC) reading about the one raid that didn't quite go according to plan when they've not heard about the many successful raids we've held.

I apologise for bringing this to a public forum; I'd say that an alliance forum is in order, except that you can bet your bottom dollar it wouldn't get used. However, you needn't worry, as Tilda has already cleaned this one up to his liking.
Also I resent the implication that I am flaming FC. I have a great deal of respect for you hairy rabble and I have enjoyed all prior alliance raids.

People need to be given an opportunity to lead in order to get that experience. No-one gets it right first time, and we hope that they learn from their mistakes. Don't flame people for trying. Albion in general lacks people willing to lead, and they have to start somewhere. Don't discourage people if things go wrong - make CONSTRUCTIVE criticism where necessary and encourage them to try again and do better!

I was under the impression that, apart from my spleen-venting, I had posted constructive suggestions in there. On the other point though... I am not flaming Tilda for trying. I am flaming Tilda for NOT trying. Doing smeg-all and allowing things to degenerate into a non-communicating, facetious spammy mess, and contributing nothing more than a few cries of "I TEH LEADAR!" in the way of leadership or command. I said that, and I stand by it. Fair play, you tried to organise a raid. Aside from spamming /as (3 notices per hour is a little OTT at a time when /as overuse is a hot topic, is perhaps a little silly?) with the raid details, what did the leader of this raid actually do? Aside from telling the driver to get a move on, gogogo etc, when we were actually at the destination?

When we're doing a raid, it's fine to restrict /as to raid business only. However, at other times it's a useful means of communication for forming groups and helping our allies with questions they have etc. I know there have been several complaints about how /as has been used of late, but my reaction is that if you don't feel it's relevant you can turn the channel off. Some people do use /as a little excessively, but that's something that can be resolved by means of a quiet discussion… Don't flame people about it please, you only upset them!

I see. If a bunch of little children run into your living room and start pissing on your furniture, move your furniture.

I believe that there is potential within this alliance for great things, and I hope that this one little stumbling block won’t cause any lasting damage.

Gods, I hope that too. I have respect for Ody's leadership in group v group situations, and allow me to reiterate that I have enjoyed all previous alliance raids, successful or otherwise. I just think, that, that was an extremely poor effort after what promised to be such a good start. I mean.. within 10 minutes of the announced start-time, we had 6 - or was it 7? - fg of eager, ram-bearing, buffed-n-stuck-lets-roll folks ready to head out there and pharm.

Anyway, here's hoping next time is better.

 

[alithiel50]

Originally posted by old.LandShark
Also I resent the implication that I am flaming FC.

You misinterpreted what I said... What I meant was that others will (and they did) use this as an excuse to flame FC. I never said the original post was a flame

I was under the impression that, apart from my spleen-venting, I had posted constructive suggestions in there. On the other point though... I am not flaming Tilda for trying. I am flaming Tilda for NOT trying.

Again, the comment about constructive criticism wasn't aimed at your post, but at those who, as I understand things, flamed and whined at Tilda in /as and /cg until she declared that she was never going to try to organise another guild event. Ok the organisation left a lot to be desired, but theres no call for people to start being abusive.

I see. If a bunch of little children run into your living room and start pissing on your furniture, move your furniture.

I'm pretty sure the fact that I'd never let children into my house, never mind my living room, is besides the point - but that's completely different and you know it.... /as is a tool to allow people within the alliance to communicate if they need to. It's kinda like the radio. If you don't like what you're hearing, change the channel or switch it off - no-one is forcing you to listen!

Anyway, here's hoping next time is better.

It will be!

 

[old.LandShark]

Sorry - believe it or not, i wrote that bit about /as and then meant to remove it. My dad cunningly distracted with me his flashy new home theatre system, which... doesn't work atm. :E
I just thought it was rather silly to say 'if someone is misusing AS, then everyone should turn as off'...
Sorry for misinterpreting parts of your post, i haven't been in-game for a day or two and have evidently been missing out on all the fun >_<

 

[Khalen]

If you can do it better do it yourself (as has been said many times with many things before). Stop moaning, start doing!

 

[old.Wildfire]

im confused....wasnt this thread locked?

either way dont bother locking it again, we dont have private forums to talk about these things on

 

[Glottis_Xanadu]

Was not there. Stuck in some hellhole with my GF, were light was not yet invented it seemed... let alone computers, and forced to watch Idols all the time... cries....
Anyway. I feel no need to discuss these matters on BW concerning my feelings towards /as spamming or failed alliance raids.
Except, offcourse we do not wait for some feckers who show up late. 15 mins MAX wait. Very rude to make people wait in any raid.
Regards, Glottis

 

[old.LandShark]

Originally posted by old.Wildfire
im confused....wasnt this thread locked?

either way dont bother locking it again, we dont have private forums to talk about these things on

It got spammed to 2pages + by negura/yog/apathy. Then Tilda closed it. Then Tilda deleted all the spammy bits and unlocked it ;p
just a FYI

 

[Tilda]

if someone can design some forum code or something then i could have a little see about hosting it.
think i have the space but no pages.

The alliance forums would need to have a password (very secure) jobbie and the just a forumie bit

Tilda

 

[Bleri McThrust]

Do a search for phpBB2

Easy to set up and easy to use. Then has lots of Mods available allowing you to customise if you so wish

Although watching this post has been fun

 

[Mavl]

Originally posted by Tilda
if someone can design some forum code or something then i could have a little see about hosting it.
think i have the space but no pages.

The alliance forums would need to have a password (very secure) jobbie and the just a forumie bit

Tilda

Try this:
http://www.avidgamers.com/

Very easy and secure

Edit: Best private forum system I've seen to date

 

[Aule Valar]

what is this we see? rr3? your not allowed to post on these sacred forums until your at least rr11 bleri, shoo

 

[Bleri McThrust]

Originally posted by Aule Valar
what is this we see? rr3? your not allowed to post on these sacred forums until your at least rr11 bleri, shoo

Heheh Im just a nooob