Advice on new PC

[old.Whoodoo]

I always build my own PC, but I dont know much about the new 64bit processors and mobos, so heres what I want, any advice would be great appreciated:

Budget around £500

I need a new mobo, i dont need on board shit.
Processor, doesnt need to be the top one, just not too old tech.
Memory, around 1.5-2Gb preferably.
I might look at PCI-e cards too if its not going to be terribly expensive, although I have not long had my AGP card.

Heres what I have:

Creative Audigy ZX 7.1 surround sound card etc
GF 6800 GT AGP
DVD RW
600wPSU
1Gb PC 3200 Kingston memory (matched)

Any suggestions with prices etc will be nice, and suppliers (I normally use aria, novatech or ebuyer).

 

[Bahumat]

you may spend more than you would like to for the ability to use the 64 bit processor, what with dual logging its worth it imo

 

[old.Whoodoo]

you may spend more than you would like to for the ability to use the 64 bit processor, what with dual logging its worth it imo

My Barton 3600 proc handles duel logging, not brilliantly, but is 64bit that much better?

 

[old.Whoodoo]

Also, is it worth getting 64bit Win XP, as I know a few people having problems getting drivers that are compatible.

 

[Bahumat]

64 bit processors are very good, especially for dual logging accounts.

im sure someone else can explain better than me but basically a normal processor does everything it should do, but when you ask it to multi task its like a man, it just cant do it! (ok it can but you get a degredated performance)

a woman is the 64 bit equivelant, if you ask a 64bit to run 1 program you wont notice a difference, however when you run mutiple programs it can balance the workload much better.

RAM is the same, 2 sticks of 512 work better than 1 stick of 1gb

The main thing you will notice is dual logging, you will find the bb wont LD every 5 seconds plus you can probably run to some extent with it stuck to you.

 

[Tualatin]

If you have a windows XP 64bit yes, regular windows xp, no advantage what so ever.

Vista however will be 64bit, so you'll gain there then.

64bit is upcoming; the processors are there.. but the software isn't really there yet.. it's coming tho. If you buy something new now.. go 64bit.

Same thing for PCI-express, it's new and gonna be faster (1x pci-e is 8x agp orsmt). Has something to do with bandwith between the card and mobo. You can get decent cards for a normal price (AGP is more expensive nowadays). So, if you go buy a new one.. PCI-e. - You can always get a budget mobo (they are some great ones around really) which may support both AGP & PCI-e.

Few tips: Don't bother going for Ati's Crossfire or NVidia's SLI mobo's (you wont buy 2 cards, and when you wanna upgrade 1 new card is better then 2 old's)
Check what ram you need! (If you don't go overclocking brand X is as good as the brand A's).
Make sure you get brand A psu! (System more quiet and more stable).


-
That dual logging works better on 64bit, haven't tried, but would surprise me if it did. It should go faster tho, as all should run faster (if software supports 64bit). Because the thing is, you need to have two active applications to really run it smooth. And for that you need either a decent intell with HT or dual core cpu's.

 

[Naffets]

I've just rebuilt my system whoodoo, with this in:

A64 San Diego Core 3700 (2.2ghz stock speed)
Abit AN8 Ultra
1GB DDR400
600gb sata hdd space (2 x 300)
Antec P180 SPCR case
500w modular psu
ATi X1800XL graphics

Some of it was old kit, but the mobo, graphics, case and psu were new. Total price was under 600 quid for those bits.

Processor was £137 (special on aria, i think normal price is ~150 inc del + vat)
Graphics was 233, you can get the same card from HIS rather than sapphire for 211 though. 8 quid delivery on top of that (www.overclockers.co.uk)
Motherboard was £65 from an old friend, you cant get that board anymore its discontinued but you can get something simular im sure.
Your exisiting memory will do fine, and case + psu should be fine.

Processor wise at the moment the SD3700 is the best choice you can go for, they use 0.90 manufacturing process so require less voltage and run cooler as a result. At stock speed mine is 25-27 idle and 32-34 under load. Aria seem to have KAB2Es in stock, and these are the 2nd best stepping you can get for that core. Mine overclocks to 2.7ghz with a standard akasa heatsink and fan, and is still 40 degrees under load.

The X1800XL is currently one of the best value for money cards, out performing the 7800GT in most tasks and with full pixel shader 3 support it can render HDR with full AA turned on and not slow down much If you wanted to keep your exisiting graphics card then you ideally need to go for a ULI board, which has both PCI - E and AGP, that way you can expand if you want to in the future to PCI-e without changing board.

Windows 64? Yes you _will_ notice a performance increase using 64 bit OS if you have 2GB of ram and the correct drivers for all your components that have been tested well by the vendor. Personally i use 32 bit and my system is still rapid, no current game slows it down.

Edit: In the case of daoc you probably wont notice a massive increase due to it being 32 bit code. If it was 64 however, <drool>

 

[Flimgoblin]

If ye want to go for dual core you probably need to upgrade to pci-e to get a decent motherboard.

If you wanna stay AGP:
MSI K8N Neo2 Platinum nForce3 Ultra (Socket 939) Motherboard (MB-027-MS) £76
AMD Athlon 64 4000+ San Diego 90nm (Socket 939) - Retail (ADA4000BNBOX) (CP-120-AM) £241
GeIL 2GB (2x1GB) PC3200 Value Dual Channel Kit CAS3 (GE2GB3200BDC) (MY-046-GL) £130

total 441 + p&p

PCI-e you can go for:
MSI K8N Neo4 Platinum nForce4 Ultra (Socket 939) PCI-Express Motherboard (MB-046-MS) £82
AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual Core 3800+ (Socket 939) - Retail (ADA3800BVBOX) (CP-134-AM) £217
Memory: same - £130

plus £135 just to get the same graphics card again (obviously you could spend more for better)

I'd say yer better sticking with your current hardware and getting a single core bigger chip.

prices from overclockers.co.uk - you might be able to get cheaper shopping around I dunno

(MSI boards - I just like msi had a chaintech one once and it sucked so I went back to MSI, AMD coz I started building back when intel were the big bad guy plus their adverts are annoying, geil memory coz it looks nice)

 

[ceixava]

going 32->64bit wont do shit for duallogging unless its a huge performance increase

hyperthreading processors (p4) and multicores (new intels and x2 for example) make the difference in duallogging

 

[Chronictank]

If you can afford it get a dual core operton, they are THE best dual-core processor atm. But rare as water in the sahara atm as there is a trade dispute meaning they arent being sold in the EU yet, so you need to get it imported

perthreading processors (p4) and multicores (new intels and x2 for example) make the difference in duallogging

DONT get a pentium dual core unless you are going to buy one without hyperthreading, they are slower than the AMD equivalents by a long long way due to the bottleneck caused by the Hyperthreading system.

Source: http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/28cpu-games.html

The only exception would be if you got Pentium Extreme Edition 955 working at 4.26GHz, which in brute power will win. But in big tasks and multitasking will still lose out to the AMD dual cores.
But bear in mind the older Pentium Extreme Edition 840 is far inferior so i wouldnt even look at that

 

[Naffets]

ye, generally for games amd > intel

Oh and flim, why the 4000+? Get a 3700 and oc it 200mhz to get the same speed, and save almost a hundred quid

 

[Chronictank]

ok my info a little outdated,
dont get a Intel full stop, for the sort of money for the 840 you can buy the AMD Athlon 64 FX-60 which i didnt think was released yet, which is far superior to anything Intel can offer in almost every area

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/athlon64-fx60.html

 

[Chronictank]

nerf edit timers
bear in mine the following, from xbit:
"I have to stress that we arrived at this conclusion having one of the today’s fastest and most powerful graphics cards in our system: NVIDIA GeForce 7800 GT. And if this powerful graphics card doesn’t require a super-fast CPU, then what can we say about the mainstream graphics solutions? It means that gamers with the mainstream or slower video subsystem shouldn’t even think of getting a powerful CPU: it will be just a waste of money."

 

[Naffets]

Yeah chron, calculating pi to 16M stresses my system more than any game does that i've played, well, stresses the cpu.

 

[confused]

Not just the fact that AMD's seem to play faster in games, they also run much much cooler,

for £500 i've specced, for system only using your 600w psu

CP-141-AM AMD Opteron UP 144 San Diego 1.8GHz 1MB Cache (Socket 939) - Retail (CP-141-AM)
£129.95 £129.95
HD-094-MD Maxtor MaxLine III NCQ 250GB 7V250F0 SATA-II 16MB Cache - OEM (HD-094-MD)
£63.95 £63.95
MB-091-AB Abit AT8 ATI RD480 Crossfire (Socket 939) PCI-Express Motherboard (MB-091-AB)
£74.95 £74.95
GX-044-HT HIS Excalibur ATI Radeon X800 GTO ICEQII TURBO 256MB GDDR3 TV-Out/DVI (PCI-Express) - Retail (RX800GTO-256ICEQT) (GX-044-HT)
£109.95 £109.95
Subtotal £378.80
VAT £66.29
Total £445.09

Then you would need the case and extra ram if you thought it necessary. Also if you're not even concidering Overclocking then don't go for the Opteron, they can get to well over 2.5ghz on stock cooling. I put in the x800 gto as it's also very overclockable and on the abit board and crossfire compatible its all good, and Maxtor HD, i'm running 4 of those in the two Pcs sitting in the room in atm, just happens i've got a spinpoint in my laptop .

Forgot to add that ATI are probably better for the mid end cards with the x800 being slightly ahead of the 6800gt's

Also i'd reccomend changing to PCI-E as in the future that comp might be able to be upgraded, where as AGP is both getting much more expencive and the lines are being stopped

 

[Naffets]

Also, good luck finding a 144 Rarer than rocking horse shit.

 

[confused]

They're in stock at OCuk atm though not getting any more in...

 

[Flimgoblin]

ye, generally for games amd > intel

Oh and flim, why the 4000+? Get a 3700 and oc it 200mhz to get the same speed, and save almost a hundred quid

I'm a lazy git and cba overclocking (despite buying all my shit at overclockers... oh well ) but why not overclock the 4000+?

 

[Naffets]

I'm a lazy git and cba overclocking (despite buying all my shit at overclockers... oh well ) but why not overclock the 4000+?

The 4000+ won't go that much faster than what a 3700 will, they're both the same core with the same level of cache, the 4000+ simply runs 200mhz faster to begin with. Most 3700s go as high as 2.9-3.0ghz, thats an 800mhz overclock in some cases, on air

 

[confused]

The 4000+ won't go that much faster than what a 3700 will, they're both the same core with the same level of cache, the 4000+ simply runs 200mhz faster to begin with. Most 3700s go as high as 2.9-3.0ghz, thats an 800mhz overclock in some cases, on air

Opterons will go higher than the amd64s and a 3700 won't touch 2.9 on air more like 2.6 maxish

Though if you're going for a amd-64 go for the 3700+ its superior to the 3800+ and anything below it due to the 1mb cache, and its £90 cheaper than the 4000+ with little difference in speed. Also as you can get the 3700 + without a heatsink/fan you could save that money and get a v nice cooler and overclock it

 

[Naffets]

Opterons will go higher than the amd64s and a 3700 won't touch 2.9 on air more like 2.6 maxish

Though if you're going for a amd-64 go for the 3700+ its superior to the 3800+ and anything below it due to the 1mb cache, and its £90 cheaper than the 4000+ with little difference in speed. Also as you can get the 3700 + without a heatsink/fan you could save that money and get a v nice cooler and overclock it

Want screenshots of my 3700 on air at 2.7ghz? Yes opterons will go higher, but bear in mind a 144 has a lower multiplier so you have to push it harder. My 3700 is currently running at 2.7 and completes superPI at 16M without a problem at all. 42 degrees under load.

Try checking the extremeoverclocking forums perhaps before saying they max out at 2.6.

Edit: To be fair my case credits cooling a fair bit, even so.

 

[confused]

Want screenshots of my 3700 on air at 2.7ghz? Yes opterons will go higher, but bear in mind a 144 has a lower multiplier so you have to push it harder. My 3700 is currently running at 2.7 and completes superPI at 16M without a problem at all. 42 degrees under load.

Try checking the extremeoverclocking forums perhaps before saying they max out at 2.6.

Edit: To be fair my case credits cooling a fair bit, even so.

notice the ish at 2.x, but personally i think that single cores are on the way out.... Also Opterons, i agree take alot of pushing, but when they're at high speed they do fly