ac2 removes bbots

[Asha]

great ideer.
ofc shaman should be able to buff as good as the other main buffers (end buff cost 0 cons)
and stat elixirs should have a shorter reuse timer
elixirs shóuld be able to stack
and stat elixirs should be cheaper and faster to make
oh and all druid shaman and cleric should have a name respec choise.
but we are more likely to see aug, enh, and nur, pumped with timer buffs, and active stuff to keep all more or less happy.

why? my af buff isn't availble to mids/hibs but it costs me con. Albs have to get a paladin for end, why shouldn't it cost a shamie con?

The elixir idea is very intresting to me. I dont' see it happening tho because mythic want ppl to have bbots. More $$$. If they didn't then they wouldn't have made the system so easy to use them.


Plz no timers on con buffs tho argh... what a pain

 

[SethNaket]

did you ever consider that you're SUPPOSED to have to choose which buffs to use and not have everyone full buffed? or *gasp* get a friar?

Beside the point but no. First of all I don't think you know better than anyone else what mythic "intended" for anyone to do. Secondly, the road to balancing the game should not include forcing 1 or 2 of the realms to make those choices/sacrifices while the 3rd doesn't have to. Only by changing how buffs work can something be done about buffbots. The chant-thing could work I think if only they made it so buffers could have several of them up at the same time (without twisting). Something similar to old shaman end-buff (ie a duration group buff) but with a range check (like current shaman end) and a lot longer duration than 10 minutes could work.

There are many ways it could be done, and atleast a few that even Mythic could manage. Even if they can't figure out a single way to do it, a good start could be cutting all buff spell bonuses in half. Not only would that close the gap between buffed and unbuffed, it would also make it less important to have maxxed out BB buffs and might even make aug XXX realm abilites worth a damn except as prereqs for useful ones. But that's just in my opinion.

 

[Asha]

Beside the point but no. First of all I don't think you know better than anyone else what mythic "intended" for anyone to do.

Mythic made it a concentration based system (unlike ac) therefore you have only 20 (used to be 15) buffs to cast. This is in itself indicates that you're not supposed to be able to buff more than a certain amount of people. Buffs, especially spec buffs are supposed to have been a luxury that you got when you grouped a char that has specced that spec line (like any other spec line). If you weren't supposed to only be able to buff a certain amount, then they wouldn't have set the caps on con and # of buffs so low...

Secondly, the road to balancing the game should not include forcing 1 or 2 of the realms to make those choices/sacrifices while the 3rd doesn't have to.
I am sorry but we already have to make these choices regarding other ablities, disease and near sight for example. When other realms do not. All things are not equal in this game. You have pros and cons to all the choices you make.

Only by changing how buffs work can something be done about buffbots. The chant-thing could work I think if only they made it so buffers could have several of them up at the same time (without twisting). Something similar to old shaman end-buff (ie a duration group buff) but with a range check (like current shaman end) and a lot longer duration than 10 minutes could work.

I don't see why you need to go to all that trouble. Simply put them as group only and a very good range. It would kill bots immediately, yet not really effect the buffers.

There are many ways it could be done, and atleast a few that even Mythic could manage. Even if they can't figure out a single way to do it, a good start could be cutting all buff spell bonuses in half. Not only would that close the gap between buffed and unbuffed, it would also make it less important to have maxxed out BB buffs and might even make aug XXX realm abilites worth a damn except as prereqs for useful ones. But that's just in my opinion.

Yes, nerf buffers even more. I don't agree. Make buffs a luxury, not a standard.

 

[Tindel]

OT buuuuuut..
(If you’re soloing with buffs, you aren’t soloing anyway… you’ve been helped by someone else, but they just don’t get a cut of the XP.) exchange xp for rp and wazzaaaaa
Bingo!
so stop saying you are solo when buffed already

 

[SethNaket]

Yes, nerf buffers even more. I don't agree. Make buffs a luxury, not a standard.

Find a single person who plays and considers himself simply a "buffer" and I'd be inclined to take that into account(I don't know anyone). However since as we've already established, everyone has buffbots(this being the problem) and therefore no group chars play "buffers" anyway. Enh clerics heal, nurture druids heal, shammys root/disease/dot. So who would it nerf, the afk'ers? Oh no!

 

[Asha]

Find a single person who plays and considers himself simply a "buffer" and I'd be inclined to take that into account(I don't know anyone). However since as we've already established, everyone has buffbots(this being the problem) and therefore no group chars play "buffers" anyway. Enh clerics heal, nurture druids heal, shammys root/disease/dot. So who would it nerf, the afk'ers? Oh no!

errr I have 35 spec points in enhance. I get 1x spec points to spend. 35 is a huge investment. I don't see how you can discount it. Cutting in half the effectiveness of my spec line that I have put so much into because "everyone" has buffers (I don't btw) is bordering on ridiculous.

Anyhow it's all academic because Mythic will never cut off bots. Nor, I suspect, will they change the con. system because it means that more people need to own bots.

 

[SethNaket]

errr I have 35 spec points in enhance. I get 1x spec points to spend. 35 is a huge investment. I don't see how you can discount it. Cutting in half the effectiveness of my spec line that I have put so much into because "everyone" has buffers (I don't btw) is bordering on ridiculous.

Pff, that's not a huge investment. What else are you gonna spend it on? Smite? You're still primarily a healer, cause with 35 enh you no doubt have 40+ rejuv.

Besides, even if buffs were cut in half it wouldn't be a nerf to you anyway. Any reduction in dmg of tanks/caster would be cancelled out by everyone having less buffed hitpoints and all healers casting their spells slower. All in all, it would move the game towards what more people want, a little less damage, a little less difference between buffed and unbuffed and a little less difference between BB and in-group buffs. I'm not sure why you're constantly so defensive since I was essentially agreeing with you when I made my first post this discussion, but I can keep dancing if you want.

 

[rure]

You have to understand though, that "buffbot" is a completely different term in Asheron's Call.

Totally irrelevant atm... I asked if you would want it happen to daoc. Not how likely it is that Mythic removes them.

 

[SethNaket]

Totally irrelevant atm... I asked if you would want it happen to daoc. Not how likely it is that Mythic removes them.

Then why use AC as an example if it's irrelevant? If it's not irrelevant then it is important to understand that a buffbot in AC is not the same as a buffbot in DAOC.

 

[vintervargen]

remove BBs.

 

[rure]

Then why use AC as an example if it's irrelevant? If it's not irrelevant then it is important to understand that a buffbot in AC is not the same as a buffbot in DAOC.

The bbots function is the same in DAoC and AC2 too make your character stronger. In a player based context bbots are the same in AC2 and DAoC, not from the companys point of view. =)

 

[Asha]

It's ~40% of my spec points. I consider that a huge investment. And smite being a crap spec line doesn't mean that enhan should be too. It is a nerf because it should be viable spec line and not a given to every fotm pl infil who can afford a second account. It should be something you gain by grouping with someone that has sacrificed 40% of their spec points for. It's a nerf because you're halving the effect my spec can have on my group - because other people get this for free doesn't change that you'd be nerfing my effectivness. There should be a reward to groups who have a char with high enhance spec. This is not the way to fix things.
This would not bring about the changes you predict. Bbot buffs would still be far superior due to RAs that the average cleric just can't afford and most of all because you wouldn't lose them when your cleric/shammie/druid died.

 

[Knudden]

why? my af buff isn't availble to mids/hibs but it costs me con. Albs have to get a paladin for end, why shouldn't it cost a shamie con?

The elixir idea is very intresting to me. I dont' see it happening tho because mythic want ppl to have bbots. More $$$. If they didn't then they wouldn't have made the system so easy to use them.


Plz no timers on con buffs tho argh... what a pain

first be happy with ur buff line it have alot of cool unik stuff
when i played my cleric we had to buff with priority... teh horror!!!
with a few stat elixirs the group are fully buffed anyway. (in my sceenery)
A pally can easy keep his mana up with crack and a heal power elixir (or power regain3 elixir and a power heal once in a while) so nothing to cry about.
Timer on cons buff? i think u misunderstod me? i ment there are gonna be new spells in aug, enh, nur, that require the toon to be grouped, maybe timer buffs maybe some casted short lasting stuff. healers and clerics allready have some.
in short i wanted a nerf to bb's
but im pretty sure mystic only are gonna make it so u can have ur bb but u can play it bb specced in groups too.

 

[Asha]

I am happy with my buff line. I am not happy with people who tell me stealthers/soloers should get my buff line w/o grouping a buffer

A pala using RAs and potions isn't the same thing as making end "free" for shammies to cast on everyone in group

The timer comment was for Hobbit. "put range on buffs or put a timer on buffs like the resist buffs.. tho the timers should last a bit longer" Recasting buffs every 15 or even 20 minutes?

 

[Arindra]

Obviously a range-on-buffs would be good for the game. And espeicially good for active buff players. The buffing TLs are mostly even asking for it.

But the difference between AC2 and DAoC, is that while AC2 has basically failed and now just acts a glorified test server for AC1, DAoC is actually a going concern.

And Mythic can't hope to get reliable numbers on how many buffbot accounts they'd lose if they corrected this problem. So they won't take the risk.

If, theoretically, Mythic were to fix this problem, I suspect they'd do it by making buffs more easily available, and nerfing their effectiveness slightly, making them less of an issue. Rather than the real and proven fix as applied to mid end regen. Range on buffs.

Which is a shame.

Obviously.

 

[Knudden]

A pala using RAs and potions isn't the same thing as making end "free" for shammies to cast on everyone in group

its free for bards if we saw the bb nerf ofc something had to be done so shaman could buff as much as druids and cleric's
end chant aint that big a problem, albs are far better of then hibs
belive me.

 

[Chilly]

yes i bloody would like to see it, even though i love using BBs cos it makes my sorc cast faster, do more damage and generally pwn more. But everyone didnt have them, i wouldnt care cos then wed al be equal-ish. Buffs should be a luxury for grouped people, or the buffers themselves. Soloers who cry about shit to-hit etc while attacking buffed group member should ram a huge pie in that yapping pie hole and sod off and leave full groups alone imHo.

Death to the buffbots!

 

[Antedeluvian]

and your numbers aint? look at it in more then 1 angle...

If you dont want to play a server whit a lot of albs just DELETE-YES, because in excalibur you won't find that server.

 

[Aloca]

1. In AC2 there is a PROGRAM that buffs everyone around you.

2. There not removing them, it just have to be in group... this means solo stealthers still have there buffs and groups lose them. Wich is bad imo. (At least if Mythic would ''remove'' bb's the same way).

At least thats what i understood from reading that link.

if you read like 1 more line you see that their BBs is exactly like ours

 

[SethNaket]

if you read like 1 more line you see that their BBs is exactly like ours

They are nothing like DAOCs buffbots. "More general case" doesn't mean that case is a bigger or more common problem, it just means that it contains buffbots and something else aswell (logging in, buffing, logging off etc as he said). The problem in AC is that one buffbot at each lifestone means that everyone that binds there can get buffed by it, hence ~10 buffbots placed around the world can keep the entire server population buffed. It would be like if there was an NPC at each TK/Borderkeep that would give you a full set of capped buffs when you clicked it (which I've actually seen some people ask for in BB discussions).

That's also why they can fix it but Mythic probably never will. Turbine can nerf it and lose 10 subscriptions per server(altho buff-characters in AC, unlike DAOC, are actually very playable on their own), while Mythic would lose atleast 10% of their subscriptions unless they can make those buffchars wanted for something else (maybe give them some really overpowered stuff to make them superfotm). 10+% is big money...